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Possible Bestiary 2 PDF errata / problems


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Astral Wanderer wrote:
3) The Oread's composite longbow is not listed as granting a +2 Str bonus (and if it was, it'd be well over the money a 1st level character gets); yet, there is a +2 listed in the bow's damage.

NPCs don't use the same gear allotment that PCs do.

Core Rulebook page 450:
If the NPC possesses levels in a PC class, it is considered a heroic NPC and receives better ability scores.

That's the point of the Heroic Level column in Table 14-9 on page 454.

Grand Lodge

Aside from what Astral Wanderer had to say about lycanthropes above, also wanted to mention that for the werebear (pg 181), it simply says "bear" in the change shape section of its Special Qualities. The first Bestiary doesn't have an entry that is simply a bear, it has grizzly bear and dire bear as well as black bear, large grizzly bear, and polar bear mentioned in the descriptive text for the grizzly, saying they can be generated using the simple and advanced templates.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer hinted at it in his lycanthrope post, but i didn't see it specifically mentioned in this thread anywhere, so here goes.

The werebear (p. 181) is missing a bonus language for having a high Intelligence at 1st level.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Alright, this one is not a normal errata post.

Lycanthropes are so screwed up that I rewrote their stat blocks anew.
Should anyone want them, here they are in spoiler.
Note that:
1) I made some personal changes in equipment and other things.
2) All favourite class bonuses have been changed to skill ranks.
3) I used the "errata" suggested by James Jacobs that hybrid forms are the same size as the base creature, instead of picking the larger size between animal and base creature.
4) For the Werebear, I used statistics of the Black Bear ("Young" variant of the Grizzly Bear).
5) And most important, the Wereboar's stat blocks do not assume it is raging.

** spoiler omitted **...

For all three of the lycanthropes, you mentioned a bonus of +3 after the lycanthropic empathy ability (where before a numerical bonus wasn't even listed). Lycanthropic empathy doesn't work the same way as wild empathy, instead it has a set-in-stone +4 bonus, not one that reads from the Cha bonus.

Grand Lodge

Ok, I keep making new posts for the same topic so I waited till I reviewed everything before making any more posts. Obviously lycanthropes are messed up and Astral Wanderer offered a different version of these creatures. I mentioned some specific things wrong about the original monsters from the book above that one could notice if they looked through his post that were never brought up before (I think) and here are a few more:

- Werebear natural AC in hybrid form should be +8, not +2, meaning AC should be 24 and flat-footed should be 22.

- Wereboar natural AC in hybrid form should be +6, not +2, meaning when raging AC should be 18 and flat-footed should be 17.

- Weretiger missing grab for its claw and bite attacks in the hybrid form.

- Weretiger natural AC in hybrid form should be +5, not +2, meaning AC should be 21 and flat-footed should be 18.

- Weretiger should have the pounce and rake abilities in hybrid form, according to the rules of lycanthropes. Rake would be 2 claws +10, 1d8+7.

ASTRAL WANDERER:
I noticed a few more things that need tweaking in your new stats:

- Wereboar hybrid form's speed is 50 feet when it should be 40 feet.

- Wereboar's melee line has two gore attacks listed (first one was probably meant to be bite). Also for both gore attacks mentioned curse of lycanthropy was applied to both, when only the bite gets it.

- Weretiger should have the pounce and rake abilities, as mentioned above.

- You downed the damage of the weretiger's claw attacks, how come? I know they don't follow the common damage levels for a creature its size, but the normal tiger doesn't either.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Megafauna, Arsinoitherium, page 186

Listed damage for Powerful Charge is 4d8+24. Where is the +24 from? It is not Str x2 (it would be 18), nor 1-1/2 Str x2 (it would be 26, and a quite odd calculation), nor Str x3 (it would be 27) or any other combination I can think of.

Perhaps they accidentally used the sample damage that was given as an example in the powerful charge ability description. It says "Format: powerful charge (gore, 4d8+24); Location: Special Attacks."

If this is indeed erroneous, it's possible this could have affected the Animal Companion version's powerful charge as well, if it was based off of this one.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Mihstu, page 190

Is it on purpose that it doesn't have the Evil subtype, or an error?

Probably on purpose, as they hail from the elemental plane of air. They are still, however, utterly evil.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Neh-Thalggu, page 197

1) Skills: doing the maths suggests me that four skills have unrightfully been considered class skills.

Skill points total = 80 ([4 base, +4 Int] * 10 HD)

Fly +15 (3 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class, +8 maneuverability, -2 size)
Knowledge (arcana) +23 (9 ranks, +4 Int, +3 class, +7 insight)
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +23 (9 ranks, +4 Int, +3 ???*, +7 insight)
Knowledge (planes) +23 (9 ranks, +4 Int, +3 ???*, +7 insight)
Perception +17 (10 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class)
Sense Motive +17 (10 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 ???**)
Spellcraft +17 (10 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class)
Stealth +12 (10 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class, -4 size)
Use Magic Device +16(10 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 ???**)

* Aberrations have only one Knowledge skill to pick as a class skill. Here I assume it's arcana.

** This is not a class skill for Aberrations.

It's almost as if the person statting this creature got confused midway and treated it like an outsider

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Nightshade, Nightwave, page 202

2) Nightwave's Energy Drain's description mentions it working on swallowed foes; yet, in the stat-block, the Energy Drain is mentioned both in the Swallow Whole special attack and in the Bite melee attack.
Should it then be removed from the bite, or should the description of Drain Energy mention that the bite also inflicts it?
(I understand it may have been written like that only to make clear that Swallow Whole inflicts the drain each round and not just once, but better check everything than not, I think.)

I think it works on both. The energy drain's ability description in the universal monster rules says when a creature has it it applies to their attacks. I believe the mention of how it works with swallowed creatures is an addendum to the UMR for this creature.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Astral Wanderer wrote:
3) The Oread's composite longbow is not listed as granting a +2 Str bonus (and if it was, it'd be well over the money a 1st level character gets); yet, there is a +2 listed in the bow's damage.

NPCs don't use the same gear allotment that PCs do.

Core Rulebook page 450:
If the NPC possesses levels in a PC class, it is considered a heroic NPC and receives better ability scores.

That's the point of the Heroic Level column in Table 14-9 on page 454.

Right; I considered the above its money exactly because it had a PC class, and since I didn't remember that table's column, I thought of the base Fighter money (5d6x10 = 300 gp max; a composite longbow [+2 Str] is 300 gp just on its own).

What about the +2 damage, then? Since it stays within the money limit, I suppose the bow does get the +2 Str. Or should the listed +2 just be removed?

Strife2002 wrote:
For all three of the lycanthropes, you mentioned a bonus of +3 after the lycanthropic empathy ability (where before a numerical bonus wasn't even listed). Lycanthropic empathy doesn't work the same way as wild empathy, instead it has a set-in-stone +4 bonus, not one that reads from the Cha bonus.

The difference is that Wild Empathy works as a Diplomacy check, but uses Druid level (or HD, when gained as a monster ability) as if it was the amount of assigned ranks.*

Lycanthropic Empathy, instead, uses exactly Diplomacy, to which they add a +4 racial bonus.
Since none of the three Lycanthropes has a single rank in Diplomacy and they all have Cha 8, their total for Diplomcay is -1 (Cha). Add the racial +4 when they use it for Lycan Empathy, and it's a total of +3.
I wrote it in the stat block because A) I "standardized" the format for both Lycanthropic Empathy and Wild Empathy, since they do the same thing with just a slightly different mechanic, B) with "A" in mind, I see that some creatures have their bonus to Wild Empathy listed, while some don't (look at Dryad and Nymph), and thus, we come to C) I think it's better to have the value listed, rather than having to calculate it each time (alright, maybe no GM on Earth will ever use Wild/Lycan Empathy and thus there's no point writing the number, but you know, I'm a bit "perfectionist", and you get the idea).

* About that, I would ask if Wild Empathy can benefit from bonuses that apply to Diplomacy, such as racial, competence, untyped and everything else; but this one is another matter, for now. I checked the FAQ for it and found nothing; in the messageboards, the only related official word I could find was Jason's "I'll look into it".

___________________________

Since the following refers specifically to the Lycanthropes I earlier posted and not to actual book/rules errata, I'll put it under spoiler.

Spoiler:

Strife2002 wrote:

ASTRAL WANDERER:

I noticed a few more things that need tweaking in your new stats:

1 - Wereboar hybrid form's speed is 50 feet when it should be 40 feet.

2 - Wereboar's melee line has two gore attacks listed (first one was probably meant to be bite). Also for both gore attacks mentioned curse of lycanthropy was applied to both, when only the bite gets it.

3 - Weretiger should have the pounce and rake abilities, as mentioned above.

4 - You downed the damage of the weretiger's claw attacks, how come? I know they don't follow the common damage levels for a creature its size, but the normal tiger doesn't either.

Thanks for checking them and giving feedback.

1) Right. I must have (wrongly) taken the boar's base speed of 40 ft. and added the Barbarian's +10 ft.

2) The first time it is listed as a secondary attack made after attacking with falchion, while the second one (I put an "or" in between, but I can agree that it's not that clear) is listed as primary attack (used alone).
On a side note, what adds to the apparent confusion is that, while the Wereboar in the book has a both a bite and gore attack, the normal Boar only has the gore. With that in mind, I preferred to remove the bite and to leave the Wereboar with gore only, moving the application of the Curse of Lycanthropy to that type of attack. I do understand it can be arguable, but as for myself, I'll keep it this way. The "Melee" line of the Lycanthrope template says: "Melee: A lycanthrope gains natural attacks in animal and hybrid forms according to the base animal." Thus, RAW, the Wereboar would only get gore; for Curse of Lycanthropy, it says "urse of Lycanthropy (Su) A natural lycanthrope's bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects [...]"; if I removed the curse entirely because of the lack of a bite attack, there would be no possibility of an afflicted Wereboar's existence, so I made the "RAW-break" here and moved the curse to the gore.

3) Oddly enough, in my personal notes I have Pounce listed. Can't remember what happened, but I suppose I noticed the lack of Pounce after the edit time of the post expired and didn't want to make an errata post for it.
About Rake, though, the Weretiger can't have it in any form. Lycans' Change Shape functions as Polymorph*, which in turn, for what concerns animal transformations, functions as Beast Shape II. But that Rake is granted only by Beast Shape III and IV.

* Side note: Polymorph spell's description says "take on the form of an Animal or Magical Beast", but there's no way to turn into a Magical Beast with it, since it only duplicates Beast Shape II (unless that word is meant to state that with Polymorph you can actually do it, but that would cause a series of unpleasant issues; and, far more simple, I think it is just a copy/paste error or something like that). Magical Beast form can only be achieved through Beast Shape III or IV (duplicated by Greater Polymorph).

4) The normal Tiger is Large; since the Hybrid Weretiger is Medium (by following James' suggestion), I reduced them one step.


Petitioner, page 208-209

1) The Shapeless Petitioner from Limbo gets the Incorporeal subtype and defensive ability. This way, it loses its Strength score and its slam attack. What should the slam be replaced with? (Personal suggestion: incorporeal touch that deals 1 point of damage due to the victim's body shifting and twisting with the unstable energy of chaos.)
Also, is there any incorporeal creature with a normal base speed instead of a fly speed? I don't recall any, and if there isn't, then the speed too should change to fly speed (supposedly with good or perfect maneuverability).

2) The Damned Petitioner from Hell gets fire immunity but is easily stunned when subject to fire (which very often proves far worse than some fire damage). Compared to all other kinds of Petitioners, this one is undoubtly the most disadvantaged; shouldn't it have some other thing to compensate? (Personal suggestion: fast healing 2 to sustain more tortures.)


Phycomid, page 210

Ranged entry: the bonus to hit of the acid pellet is listed as +4, but should be +5 (+4 BAB, +1 size).


Primate, Baboon, page 212

Flat-footed AC is listed as 10, but should be 11 (+1 size).

Primate, Monkey Swarm, page 212

1) The Defensive Abilities entry says: "half damage from weapons"; is this a reference to the swarm rule that swarms of Tiny creatures get half damage from piercing and slashing weapons, or is a different ability altogether that makes the Monkey Swarm resistant to bludgeoning too (actually, I wouldn't see a reason for this)?
The only other Tiny swarm I see in the Bestiaries (1 and 2) is the Rat Swarm, and its listed defensive abilities are only "swarm traits", so it defaults to halving piercing and slashing but not bludgeoning.

2) Listing the +8 racial modifier to Climb is redundant. Or, at least, it is not listed for any other creature that has a climb speed, so dunno why it was here.

3) The Climb bonus itself is listed as +10, but should be +15 (1 rank, +3 Dex [Tiny size], +3 class, +8 racial).
I suppose that this has been calculated using Str in place of Dex, which would effectively make a total of +10 (1 rank, -2 Str, +3 class, +8 racial).

___________________________

Side note: maybe for both the Primate stat blocks it'd be worth listing their Stealth bonuses. They have no ranks, racial bonuses or other things, but they have a good number on it anyway, ror their CRs (+6 for the Baboon, +11 for the Monkey Swarm).


Subtypes, page 308

1) The Shapechanger subtype is listed after Nightshade and before Protean (this error is also in the PRD: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/creatureTypes.html#_s hapechanger-subtype).

2) In the Protean subtype, the Change Shape ability, as written, causes a series of issues. It states that a (generic) Protean using it can assume the form of "any Small, Medium, or Large animal, elemental, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin".
But...
Some Proteans use Greater Polymorph for Change Shape, others use Polymorph (the Voidworm is limited to Best Shape II, but its entry is much more restrictive and clear about what forms it can take); and Polymorph/Greater clash greatly with the list written in the Protean subtype. For example, neither version of Polymorph allows transformation into Monstrous Humanoids, Vermins or Oozes, so how should that be ruled? And same goes for the Protean who only uses Polymorph; how can it turn to a Magical Beast? (Polymorph duplicates Beast Shape II and doesn't allow transformation into Magical Beasts.)

I'd see no trouble allowing a Protean to use its Change Shape (Greater Polymorph) with the list given in the Protean subtype to turn into a Vermin and use Beast Shape IV as a base to see which special qualities it can get from the new form, even if the normal spell doesn't grant Vermin form.
But beyond the fact that it'd remain shadowy anyway, where and how do I set the limits for the Polymorph version of the Change Shape ability? Which types of creature can it grant exactly, and in which size limits?

I think a decent fix could be:
"Once per day as a standard action, a protean may change shape into any Small, Medium, or Large animal, elemental, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin, unless otherwise specified and as long as the spell it uses as a base for this ability allows that form (for this purpose consider monstrous humanoid forms as humanoid forms, and vermin or ooze forms as animal forms)."

___________________________

Protean, Imentesh, page 214

1) Fly bonus is listed as +11, but should be +9 (+3 Dex, +8 maneuverability, -2 size).

2) The Senses entry lacks mention of the Detect Law effect. (Usually, the constant "Detect" spell-like abilities are mentioned there.)


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Protean, Keketar, page 214

1) Supposedly leftovers of the copy/paste from older books:
- SQ entry: Flight is listed, but no other Protean has it listed there.
- CMB entry: the higher bonus for bull rush is listed, but it's usually not listed, when only feats modify it as in the Keketar's case.
- Special Attacks entry: Constrict damage is not inside brackets.

2) As for the Imentesh, the Senses entry lacks mention of the Detect Law effect.

3) Is it on purpose that the Keketar has no DR listed?

4) Other than normal Outsider class skills, 6 (in place of the normal 4) were additionally considered class skills: Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowlege (arcana) and the other "any two" Knowlege skills.
Since these "any two" were listed separately from Arcana and Planes, I suppose they were the ones not meant to be class skills but their bonus slipped away unreduced and came to be listed as if they were class skills.

5) Reshape Reality is not listed in the Special Attacks entry (nor in SQ or any other place).


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Protean, Keketar, page 215

Not an error per se, and I know it's 90% sure that it's a design choice, but I have to ask anyway, just in case it was really an error:
Keketar's bite damage 4d8 (more than a Colossal creature); is that alright?

___________________________

Protean, Naunet, page 216

chopswil wrote:

Protean, Naunet p. 216, skill points issue, Fly should be +12

skills points = 54
used = 53

If I give Fly 1 rank then it is +4 due to class skill so Fly+12 and SB has Fly +11

Acrobatics +15 = +9 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill
Fly +8 = +0 ranks, +3 Dex, +6 extra mods
Intimidate +14 = +9 ranks, +2 Cha, +3 class skill
Perception +15 = +9 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 class skill
Stealth +11 = +9 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill, -4 extra mods
Survival +15 = +9 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 class skill
Swim +25 = +9 ranks, +5 Str, +3 class skill, +8 extra mods

Actually, skill ranks are alright (9 X 6 = 54) and all skills are ok as listed, except that Fly is very probably missing the -2 from size (like the Imentesh and some other creatures) and thus should be +9 (+3 Dex, +8 maneuverability, -2 size).


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Protean, All, page 214-217

Although the Protean subtype grants Amorphous Anatomy, they all have the Amorphous defensive ability listed in their stat block. Rules for the two things differ, and in the PRD the Amorphous listed in the Protean stat blocks is in fact linked to the Amorphous ability, instead of Amorphous Anatomy.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:


4) The normal Tiger is Large; since the Hybrid Weretiger is Medium (by following James' suggestion), I reduced them one step.

Hmm, then by following that the wererat from bestiary 1 should have his bite damage increased, being a Medium creature but using the Small dire rat stats.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Protean, Imentesh, page 214

1) Fly bonus is listed as +11, but should be +9 (+3 Dex, +8 maneuverability, -2 size).

2) The Senses entry lacks mention of the Detect Law effect. (Usually, the constant "Detect" spell-like abilities are mentioned there.)

Additionally it seems this creature has chosen 5 skills to be outsider class skills rather than 4. Skills preceded by a * are natural outsider skills, skills preceded by a ! are skills apparently chosen to be class skills for this outsider, and skills preceded by a # are class skills granted by some other rule (if this is hard to read I apologize, i work backwards when calculating skill points):

Imentesh
Large Outsider
13 HD
156 skill points

! Acrobatics 19 - 3 (Dex) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
* Bluff 21 - 5 (Cha) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
! Diplomacy 25 - 5 (Cha) - 4 (feat) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
! Disable Device 19 - 3 (Dex) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
# Fly 9 - 3 (Dex) - 8 (maneuverability) + 2 (size) = 0 ranks
! Intimidate 25 - 5 (Cha) - 4 (feat) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
! Knowledge (arcana) 22 - 6 (Int) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
* Knowledge (planes) 22 - 6 (Int) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
Knowledge (any) 19 - 6 (Int) = 13 ranks
Knowledge (any) 19 - 6 (Int) = 13 ranks
* Perception 20 - 4 (Wis) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
* Sense Motive 20 - 4 (Wis) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
* Stealth 15 - 3 (Dex) + 4 (size) - 3 (class) = 13 ranks
Swim 15 - 7 (Str) - 8 (Swim speed) = 0 ranks

Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Intimidate, and Knowledge (arcana) all seem to have been chosen and I can't find anywhere else in the rules that say they get one of these skills as freebie class skill beyond the 4 they're allotted to choose.


Strife2002 wrote:
Hmm, then by following that the wererat from bestiary 1 should have his bite damage increased, being a Medium creature but using the Small dire rat stats.

As far as my opinion is worth, yes.

Strife2002 wrote:
Additionally it seems this creature has chosen 5 skills to be outsider class skills rather than 4.

Confirmed. I missed it.


Qlippoth, Augnagar, page 219

1) A quite minor thing, but... the initial descriptive text (the one right under the name) says that the Augnagar has eight legs; yet, the picture shows only six legs, but moreover, the bonus to CMD against trip (+2 per additional leg after the first two) is +8 (as per four additional legs, for a total of six), not +12.

2) Format error: although Bleed is an universal monster rule normally listed in the Special Attacks entry and referenced in the normal attacks only as "plus bleed", in the Agnagar stat block it is not written in the Special Attacks, but rather in the normal attacks that inflict it, along with its amount.

3) Minor: Horrific Appearence special ability says: "Creatures that succumb to an augnagar's horrific appearance are driven momentarily insane with fear."
But it is not specified if this is a fear effect (dunno if it can be a fear effect without inflicting a strictly fear-related condition). If it is not, the mention of fear thins in consistency when dealing with fear-immune characters.
The Augnagar is the only Qlippoth whose Horrific Appearence mentions fear.


chopswil wrote:

qlippoth, Iathavos p. 222, incorrect For & Will & CMD

Fort 24 = 14 + 10
Will 24 = 14 + 10

SB says +28 for both

CMD = 10 + BAB + StrMod + DexMod + SizeMod + ACBonus

62 = 10 + 24 +15 + (-1) + 8 + 6

SB says CMD 60

All saves have a +4 resistance bonus from the constant Cloak of Chaos spell-like ability, so they are correct as listed in the book.

About CMD, instead, I agree that it should be 62 and not 60. In the book it's probably missing the +2 insight from Foresight.


Qlippoth, Nyogoth, page 224

1) The attack bonuses for both types of bite are listed as +15, but they should be +15 (+10 BAB, +5 Dex [Weapon Finesse]).
Dunno where they would be supposed to get an additional +1.

2) In the Special Attacks entry, the DC of Horrific Appearance is not listed (same goes for Iathavos and Shoggti).

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Qlippoth, Nyogoth, page 224

2) In the Special Attacks entry, the DC of Horrific Appearance is not listed (same goes for Iathavos and Shoggti).

For those keeping score at home (updating your books), these values are:

Iathavos: DC 30

Nygoth: DC 18

Shoggti: DC 15

Qadira

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Howler, page 159

What's the purpose of writing up the Abyssal Strike special ability (side note: it isn't listed anywhere in the stat-block)?
Creatures with alignment subtypes, as the Howler is, automatically treat natural/artificial weapons as aligned with their own subtypes in regards of overcoming DR.

I have a question about the howler, too. There's a mention about removing multiple quills but how do you determine how many stick into someone? MM had 1d4 quills but there's no similar note in the Bestiary. Is it one per attack/defense?


Renshalla Ameina wrote:
I have a question about the howler, too. There's a mention about removing multiple quills but how do you determine how many stick into someone? MM had 1d4 quills but there's no similar note in the Bestiary. Is it one per attack/defense?

A victim takes one quill for each time she suffers the Howler's Pain. Each quill remains until removed, so if you keep suffering the Pain over and over without any healer to remove them immediately each time, you keep accruing them.


Qlippoth, Shoggti, page 225

1) Minor: Languages entry is missing mention of Tongues (due to the constant spell-like ability).

2) Feats: Weapon Focus (tentacles) is better (and more logically) replaced with Multiattack to bring the now listed +8 bonus to a +10.

3) This is arguable, but... is it on purpose that the Shoggti, so much similar to an octopus/squid, has no swim speed (and eventually Aquatic subtype + Amphibious SQ)? And, moreover, since it can't fly, it's difficult to full-attack with all the appendages you use for movement you have (and the mouth between them all too) without getting penalties to AC and maintaining your bonus to CMD vs. trip.
I repeat: arguable, but still...

Qadira

Astral Wanderer wrote:
victim takes one quill for each time she suffers the Howler's Pain. Each quill remains until removed, so if you keep suffering the Pain over and over without any healer to remove them immediately each time, you keep accruing them.

Thank you.


Renshalla Ameina wrote:
Thank you.

You're welcome.

___________________________

Qlippoth, Iathavos, page 226

Aura entry: missing the Cloak of Chaos (usually creatures with constant "aligned-aura" spells have them listed in the Aura entry too (see for example the Ghaele, Balor, Marilith and others). It's 20 ft., DC 26.

___________________________

Qlippoth, Thulgant, page 226

1) Missing the Aura entry entirely (see the Iathavos right above here; it's 20 ft., DC 25.).

2) Defensive Abilities: missing mention of Displacement and Freedom of Movement (from the constant spell-like abilities).

3) Touch AC is listed as 21, but should be 25 (+4 deflection, +12 Dex, -1 size).

4)

chopswil wrote:

qlippoth, Thulgant p. 226, all saves off & CMD incorrect

Fort 21 = 12 +9
Ref 26 = 12 + 12 + 2 Lightning Reflexes
Will 20 = 12 + 8

SB says Fort +25, Ref +30, Will +18

CMD = 10 + BAB + StrMod + DexMod + SizeMod + ACBonus

55 = 10 + 20 +8 + 12 + 1 + 4

SB says CMD 51

They can't be all +12 base. Outsiders have two good and one bad saving throw.

They are correct as listed in the book.

Fort +25 (+12 base, +9 Con, +4 resistance from Cloak of Chaos)
Ref +30 (+12 base, +12 Dex, +2 Lightning Reflexes, +4 resistance from Cloak of Chaos)
Will +18 (+6 base, +8 Wis, +4 resistance from Cloak of Chaos)

About CMD, instead, I agree. Missing the +4 deflection, I suppose. In full, it is "CMD 55 (71 vs. trip)".

5)

Strife2002 wrote:

Thulgant - p. 226

Another one, but it doesn't have a 1/2 CL bonus OR a maneuverability bonus factored into its Fly skill.

What's weirder is that this creature lists a constant fly spell-like ability but doesn't list its fly speed (which WOULD be fly 60 ft. [good]). By rules as written, this creature WOULD NOT get Fly as a class skill unless it happened to choose it as one of its 4 class skills that outsiders get.

To be in line with all others, it should: A) list the fly speed normally, B) grant Fly as a class skill, and C) grant the +9 bonus for half caster level.

Which leads to:

6) Fly bonus is listed as +33, but should be +46 (20 ranks, +12 Dex, +3 class, +4 maneuverability, -2 size, +9 Fly spell-like ability).

7) Since Fly is a "free" class skill due to having an innate method of flight (and anyway I don't understand what math has been made with the listed Fly bonus), only three out of four class skills have been assigned for Outsider varied nature (Acrobatics, Knowledge [history] and Use Magic Device). (As for myself, I chose Intimidate as fourth.)


Quickling, page 227

This may be personal opinion, but isn't CR 3 too low? The Quickling has a very good attack bonus for that CR, moreover if you add that it can spring-sneak-attack a party without ever being catched, with its speed, natural invisibility and all. Even a 5th level party could probably be devastated by it, with melee characters being useless, ranged ones having to deal with concealment and invisibility, and casters having their Fireballs eluded while other spells maybe can't reach the necessary distance, fail in ranged touchs, and so on. The Quickling luckily has low hp and does low damage, but (other than having poison too) it's hard enough to get to its hp before it destroys the whole party, starting from whomever looks like a caster or a ranged-weapon user.

Razz wrote:
Quickling is missing his SLA. Still don't know if that was intentional or a mistake.

If you meant that it should have Jump as a spell-like ability because it has a huge bonus listed in Acrobatics for jumping, that's given by its base speed (see the Acrobatics skill).

Otherwise, I don't understand what this was referring to.


Quickwood, page 228

1) The Roots special ability says that it can attack with up to 6 roots per round, but the Melee entry says "3 roots". Which one is correct?

Also, by pulling a target in bite reach, it can make a free bite attack. Does that mean that it can make up to 4 or 7 (the standard one plus another for each root that pulled a victim) bite attacks per round, like biting furiously in all directions? Shouldn't it be limited to one extra attack per round only?

2) Personal opinion, but being an intelligent creature that actively hunts intelligent creatures, shouldn't it be Neutral Evil, rather than Neutral?


Astral Wanderer wrote:

Quickling, page 227

This may be personal opinion, but isn't CR 3 too low? The Quickling has a very good attack bonus for that CR, moreover if you add that it can spring-sneak-attack a party without ever being catched, with its speed, natural invisibility and all. Even a 5th level party could probably be devastated by it, with melee characters being useless, ranged ones having to deal with concealment and invisibility, and casters having their Fireballs eluded while other spells maybe can't reach the necessary distance, fail in ranged touchs, and so on. The Quickling luckily has low hp and does low damage, but (other than having poison too) it's hard enough to get to its hp before it destroys the whole party, starting from whomever looks like a caster or a ranged-weapon user.

Can a melee fighter not ready an attack for when it comes close enough to hit? The quickling would be visible.

Edit: Or delay and charge.


Distant Scholar wrote:

Can a melee fighter not ready an attack for when it comes close enough to hit? The quickling would be visible.

Edit: Or delay and charge.

The charge can be negated by any small annoying feature in the environment that the Quickling can take easy advantage of (which can also mean repair form arrows and rays, other than charges).

About the readied action, yes, that's the best option. But only if the Quickling targets the readying character, because it's no use keeping a strike ready while the enemy slashes other people and ignores you (unless it volountarily does the mistake of entering your reach). Add that it's still hard to hit. An average full-melee 3rd level character can have about +10 to hit (+3 BAB, +4 Str, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 mwk weapon, +1 something else to be optimistic), against the AC 20 of the Quickling, which means about a 50% chance to hit. Consider also the concealment, and you reduce it to 40%. Provided, also, that the Quickling is suicidal enough to strike while it sees that you're dangerously on the look for it rather than when you let your guard down.


Ravener, pages 230-231

The Cowering Fear special ability says that "Any creature shaken by the ravener's frightful presence is cowering instead of shaken for the first
round of the effect, and shaken for the rest of the duration. Any creature that is frightened by its frightful presence is instead cowering for the duration."

But except for range, a Dragon's Frightful Presence works as described in the universal monster rules, which includes no frightened condition. I suppose that "frightened" was meant to be "panicked".


Ravener, pages 230-231

1) It should have Dex 6 rather than 8 (Red Dragon starts at 14 Dex, Wyrm age gives -8, for a total of 6 Dex).
All the related changes follow (initiative, AC, Ref save, CMD, Dex-based skills and everything else).

2) Will save is listed as +23, but should be +24 (+15 base, +7 Wis, +2 Iron Will).

3) CMD, other than the Dex issue reported above, is missing 4 points, supposedly the +4 deflection bonus.

4) The Ravener has 45 Str, for which the modifier is +17 (+25 when 1-1/2, +8 when 1/2).
Although the hit bonuses all seem correct, the bonus damage from Str for each attack (except wings) is not. (Listed respectively as +24, +16, +24, +8; it should be +25, +17, +25, +8; note also that in the book the tail slap attack has been listed before the wings, rather than after).

5) Beware that I didn't (and won't) check skills points, spells and other things, so maybe there are other errors, if anyone wants to check.


Revenant, page 235

The Reason to Hate special ability says: "Against its murderer, the revenant also gains a +4 profane bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, grapple checks, and saving throws."

Since the Revenant doesn't use weapons, I suppose the word "weapon" slipped there due to a copy/paste or something like that and shouldn't be there.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Revenant, page 235

The Reason to Hate special ability says: "Against its murderer, the revenant also gains a +4 profane bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, grapple checks, and saving throws."

Since the Revenant doesn't use weapons, I suppose the word "weapon" slipped there due to a copy/paste or something like that and shouldn't be there.

Actually, this is correct. Claws are a weapon - just not a manufactured weapon. The inclusion of the word weapon does restrict the bonus from applying to spell damage rolls, if there is ever a situaiton where a reverant casts spells (such as advancement by character class, using a magic item, etc.)

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Ravener, pages 230-231

...
5) Beware that I didn't (and won't) check skills points, spells and other things, so maybe there are other errors, if anyone wants to check.

I'll see what I can do here regarding skills and tackle the other stuff later. They're...interesting...:

Red Wyrm Ravener
27 HD
Gargantuan undead (fire)
351 skill ranks

Appraise +37 = 7 (Int) + 3 (class) + 27 ranks
Bluff +37 = 8 (Cha) + 3 (class) + 26 ranks
Diplomacy +37 = 8 (Cha) + 3 (class) + 26 ranks
Fly +12 = -2 (Dex) - 8 (clumsy) - 6 (size) + 3 (class) + 25 ranks
Intimidate +45 = 8 (Cha) + 8 (racial) + 3 (class) + 26 ranks
Knowledge (arcana) +37 = 7 (Int) + 3 (class) + 27 ranks
Knowledge (history) +37 = 7 (Int) + 3 (class) + 27 ranks
Knowledge (religion) +34 = 7 (Int) + 3 (class) + 24 ranks
Perception +45 = 7 (Wis) + 8 (racial) + 3 (class) + 27 ranks
Sense Motive +37 = 7 (wis) + 3 (class) + 27 ranks
Spellcraft +37 = 7 (Int) + 3 (class) + 27 ranks
Stealth +24 = -2 (Dex) - 12 (size) + 8 (racial) + 3 (class) + 27 ranks

316 skill ranks used, leaving 35 skill ranks still not used. If we up Bluff, Diplomacy, Fly, Intimidate, and Knowledge (religion) to max ranks, we still have 27 unused ranks, a whole 'nother maxed-out skill to go.

(Doing this also let me discover the Ancient Red Dragon's Fly skill is wrong in Bestiary 1. Posting that over there in that thread.) Anyone see fault with my math?

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Ravener, pages 230-231

...
5) Beware that I didn't (and won't) check skills points, spells and other things, so maybe there are other errors, if anyone wants to check.

Ok, spells.

For the most part it's fine. Correct number of spells known, all spells are sorcerer spells for their appropriate spell level, all DC information is entered and accurate.

The only problem is that unlike all other creatures that cast like a sorcerer, it fails to mention how many times per day they can cast. Here are what the spell level parts of the Spells Known section should be changed to:

9th (6/day) - ...
8th (7/day) - ...
7th (7/day) - ...
6th (7/day) - ...
5th (7/day) - ...
4th (8/day) - ...
3rd (8/day) - ...
2nd (8/day) - ...
1st (8/day) - ...
0 (at will) - ...

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Ravener, pages 230-231

...
5) Beware that I didn't (and won't) check skills points, spells and other things, so maybe there are other errors, if anyone wants to check.

Other than the two posts above as well as the issue I mentioned earlier in this thread, where its Stunning Critical feat should be changed to Staggering Critical because of prerequisite issues, the rest looks fine.

It could be argued, though, that this creature's flying abilities should be changed to Supernatural in nature instead of Extraordinary (of course, there's not really a place to mention this).


Strife2002 wrote:

Ravener

The only problem is that unlike all other creatures that cast like a sorcerer, it fails to mention how many times per day they can cast. Here are what the spell level parts of the Spells Known section should be changed to:

9th (6/day) - ...
8th (7/day) - ...
7th (7/day) - ...
6th (7/day) - ...
5th (7/day) - ...
4th (8/day) - ...
3rd (8/day) - ...
2nd (8/day) - ...
1st (8/day) - ...
0 (at will) - ...

The Ravener doesn't have spells per day. Virtually, it can cast without limit, as long as it keeps killing and bestowing negative levels. Look at the Soul Magic special ability.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:
Strife2002 wrote:

Ravener

The only problem is that unlike all other creatures that cast like a sorcerer, it fails to mention how many times per day they can cast. Here are what the spell level parts of the Spells Known section should be changed to:

9th (6/day) - ...
8th (7/day) - ...
7th (7/day) - ...
6th (7/day) - ...
5th (7/day) - ...
4th (8/day) - ...
3rd (8/day) - ...
2nd (8/day) - ...
1st (8/day) - ...
0 (at will) - ...

The Ravener doesn't have spells per day. Virtually, it can cast without limit, as long as it keeps killing and bestowing negative levels. Look at the Soul Magic special ability.

My mistake, thank you.


JoelF847 wrote:
Astral Wanderer wrote:

Revenant, page 235

The Reason to Hate special ability says: "Against its murderer, the revenant also gains a +4 profane bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, grapple checks, and saving throws."

Since the Revenant doesn't use weapons, I suppose the word "weapon" slipped there due to a copy/paste or something like that and shouldn't be there.

Actually, this is correct. Claws are a weapon - just not a manufactured weapon. The inclusion of the word weapon does restrict the bonus from applying to spell damage rolls, if there is ever a situaiton where a reverant casts spells (such as advancement by character class, using a magic item, etc.)

Usually, "weapon", when not paired with "natural", refers to manufactured weapons.

Otherwise, an example that someone might find somewhat confusing is in the Sceaduinar's Entropic Flesh: "Attacking with a weapon that provides reach allows a creature to avoid taking this damage." Would this mean that a Cloud Giant attacking with slams doesn't take that damage because he is attacking with reach and that "weapon" in Entropic Flesh includes his natural weapons? It'd be odd, at best.

Sceaduinar, page 239

Entropic Flesh special ability: I think the statement that the negative energy damage it bestows doesn't cure whomever is cured by negative energy (as for Entropic Touch) has been omitted.
Otherwise, "Hit the Sceaduinar" would be a most popular competition among Undead, something akin to a human "Eat more hot dogs".


Scylla, page 241

Other than already debated skill issues (my word in short about it: Fly +42, Knowledge [nature] +28, and everything is fine)...

AC: the listed Dex bonus is 1 point too high (+12, instead of +11 for 32 Dex), and the normal and touch AC are therefore 1 point too high as well.
(Ref save and CMD don't have this error.)


Seugathi, page 243

1) Knowledge (religion) bonus is listed as +11, but should be +14 (9 ranks, +2 Int, +3 class).

2) Melee entry: the bonus to damage for the bite attack is listed as +4, but should be +1 (the bite is used as a secondary attack in that case).


Shantak, page 244

Very minor: missing the usual comma separating attacks in the Melee entry.


Shining Child, page 245

Other than already reported things...

In the Ranged entry, the Searing Ray damage is listed as fire damage; in the description of the ability it is said that it bypasses all damage reduction, but fire already bypasses DR; was it rather meant to be "bypasses all fire resistance"? And in that case, what about fire immunity?


Sinspawn, page 246

Shouldn't it be mentioned that the Sinful Bite special ability is a mind-affecting effect?


Slithering Tracker, page 250

Melee: the damage bonus for the two slam attacks is listed as +4 (as if it was 1-1/2 Str bonus), but should be +3.

I'll note that in the Transparent special ability is said "A creature that
fails to notice a slithering tracker and walks into it automatically takes
damage as if struck by the slithering tracker's slam attack".

"The", instead of "one of the slithering tracker's slam attacks" could hint to the fact that the creature was intended to only have one slam, in which case the damage bonus due to Strength would be right but "2 slams" should become "slam". If that was the designing intent, of course.

Grand Lodge

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Slithering Tracker, page 250

Melee: the damage bonus for the two slam attacks is listed as +4 (as if it was 1-1/2 Str bonus), but should be +3.

I'll note that in the Transparent special ability is said "A creature that
fails to notice a slithering tracker and walks into it automatically takes
damage as if struck by the slithering tracker's slam attack".

"The", instead of "one of the slithering tracker's slam attacks" could hint to the fact that the creature was intended to only have one slam, in which case the damage bonus due to Strength would be right but "2 slams" should become "slam". If that was the designing intent, of course.

Is this true?

Rules for natural attacks wrote:
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls.

For some reason I thought this meant one TYPE of natural attack, which this creature has - slams.

Also, just noticed this, but the fact that this Small ooze can grab Colossal creatures is insane.

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