| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The weapon retains all of its abilities, including enhancement bonuses and weapon properties, except those prohibited by its current shape.
Is base damage and damage type considered a weapon property.
further on it states that a keen weapon changed into a bludgeoning weapon loses the keen ability so I sumise from that that the damage type does change.
but what about the weapon damage, crit range etc does it alter to the new base weapon's ?
for example quaterstaff 1d6 into greatsword 2d6
does this then mean your still proficient with the weapon if you don't have the appropriate feat for what its transformed into ?
Even more specific the Brutal Master Chymist ability states you only receive the brutal bonus damage when using natural weapons or simple weapons.
would a transforamtive simple weapon still qualify you for the brutal damage and then have the added bonus of getting a better base damage and crit range?
|
Oh good, a vaguely written anything item.
The APG gives the specific example of transforming a Small greatsword to an "actual Medium longsword" and explains that the resulting weapon is usable by a Medium creature without the –2 penalty for using a weapon of the wrong size. Clearly it has taken on the Medium size rating of the longsword. It would be very strange if it still acted like a Small weapon as well.
It seems simplest to say that when a transformative weapon "takes the shape of" or "becomes" another kind of weapon, that means exactly the same as buying the new weapon at the market with the same enchantments on it. It requires proficiency with the new weapon, does the damage and has the critical threat range of the weapon it has become (modified by magic properties such as keen) and counts as the size and class (simple, martial or exotic) appropriate to the new weapon. It loses any mundane weapon abilities (trip and so on) that the real shape has and gains those of the new weapon.
There is no indication that it can change the material of the weapon and that would be a major new ability in itself. However, since I don't know what "same general shape" means, I'll go by the actual rule given in the text, that a Medium transformative longsword can change into any other Medium one-handed melee weapon. edit: It doesn't look as if there is anything in the RAW stopping you changing a transformative greatsword, a Medium two-handed weapon, into a Medium quarterstaff mostly made of iron - or a Medium quarterstaff into a Medium greatsword made of wood.
I would probably want to add that the new weapon type must have the same combination of materials (wooden, wooden-hafted or metal-hafted, as listed for purposes of sundering, or other) as the previous weapon.
|
|
More briefly: Weapon properties here means magic properties.
Weight and materials don't change and might preclude some new forms. The weapon can't become a ranged weapon. It must keep the same handedness for a creature of its original size. Otherwise it transforms completely into a chosen new weapon.
Is base damage and damage type considered a weapon property?
Of course they are.
Further on it states that a keen weapon changed into a bludgeoning weapon loses the keen ability so I surmise from that, that the damage type does change.
Yes.
What about the weapon damage, crit range, etc.? Does it alter to the new base weapon's?
Yes. Otherwise, what would be the point of changing the weapon at all?
Does this then mean you're still proficient with the weapon if you don't have the appropriate feat for what it's transformed into?
If you are not proficient in its new form, then you are not proficient in it. You suffer a -4 penalty to hit with it and may not be able to take advantage of some of its abilities (as per the individual weapon description).
Even more specific, the Brutal Master Chymist ability states you only receive the brutal bonus damage when using natural weapons or simple weapons. Would a transformative simple weapon still qualify you for the brutal damage and then have the added bonus of getting a better base damage and crit range?
You keep the bonus provided its CURRENT form is still that of a simple weapon. Change the quarterstaff into a greatsword and you are out of luck.
Hope that helps.
|
|
for example quaterstaff 1d6 into greatsword 2d6
Probably the most worrisome exploit is the opposite: changing a two-handed weapon into a double weapon. If you can buy a cold iron transformative spear +1 and change it into a cold iron orc double axe +1, you've just saved many thousands of GP on making and enchanting the second axe head, which designers in the past seemed to consider a great problem.
for example quaterstaff 1d6 into greatsword 2d6Probably the most worrisome exploit is the opposite: changing a two-handed weapon into a double weapon. If you can buy a cold iron transformative spear +1 and change it into a cold iron orc double axe +1, you've just saved many thousands of GP on making and enchanting the second axe head, which designers in the past seemed to consider a great problem.
The obvious solution is that only one weapon head is enchanted.
|
|
The obvious solution is that only one weapon head is enchanted.for example quaterstaff 1d6 into greatsword 2d6Probably the most worrisome exploit is the opposite: changing a two-handed weapon into a double weapon. If you can buy a cold iron transformative spear +1 and change it into a cold iron orc double axe +1, you've just saved many thousands of GP on making and enchanting the second axe head, which designers in the past seemed to consider a great problem.
True, obvious and consistent with past rulings. So if you change a transformative greatclub into a quarterstaff, only one end of the quarterstaff gets the enhancement bonus and any other magic properties.
I was also wondering a few things about the transformative property. One is what kind of action does it take to transform. It says it alters shape "at its wielder's command" so that sounds like a free or swift action, but the way I see things, it gets worse.
Shields are listed under "One Handed Martial Weapons" so, supposedly, I could take feats in shield focus and a given weapon, get a transformative +5longsword/scimitar/whatever. If I do that, do I get a +5 sword that also functions as a +5 shield? If it's a free action, then I could have a Wiz/Ftr Eldritch knight (or Magus, for that matter) turn it into a sword to attack or to cast a spell (to remove spell failure%, and to gain a free hand if I'm a Magus who wants to use spell combat) and then back into a shield at the end of my turn, regaining its massive shield AC bonus. Buy a +5 sword, get a +5 shield free?!
If I'm right about this, that's probably a worse exploit than the double weapon one (and significantly harder to solve)
|
|
I was also wondering a few things about the transformative property. One is what kind of action does it take to transform. It says it alters shape "at its wielder's command" so that sounds like a free or swift action, but the way I see things, it gets worse.
Activating a magic item is usually a standard action unless otherwise stated.
Shields are listed under "One Handed Martial Weapons" so, supposedly, I could take feats in shield focus and a given weapon, get a transformative +5longsword/scimitar/whatever. If I do that, do I get a +5 sword that also functions as a +5 shield?
If your GM allows you to change a transformative longsword into a heavy shield, only its use as a weapon is enhanced, giving you +5 to attack and damage on a shield bash. No doubt you would want to make it a spiked shield.
True, obvious and consistent with past rulings. So if you change a transformative greatclub into a quarterstaff, only one end of the quarterstaff gets the enhancement bonus and any other magic properties.The obvious solution is that only one weapon head is enchanted.for example quaterstaff 1d6 into greatsword 2d6Probably the most worrisome exploit is the opposite: changing a two-handed weapon into a double weapon. If you can buy a cold iron transformative spear +1 and change it into a cold iron orc double axe +1, you've just saved many thousands of GP on making and enchanting the second axe head, which designers in the past seemed to consider a great problem.
What if you change a quarterstaff encahnted as +3 / +1 flaming frost into a greatsword? What happens to the other enchant? And then what if you transform it back?
|
|
What if you change a quarterstaff encahnted as +3 / +1 flaming frost into a greatsword? What happens to the other enchant? And then what if you transform it back?True, obvious and consistent with past rulings. So if you change a transformative greatclub into a quarterstaff, only one end of the quarterstaff gets the enhancement bonus and any other magic properties.The obvious solution is that only one weapon head is enchanted.for example quaterstaff 1d6 into greatsword 2d6Probably the most worrisome exploit is the opposite: changing a two-handed weapon into a double weapon. If you can buy a cold iron transformative spear +1 and change it into a cold iron orc double axe +1, you've just saved many thousands of GP on making and enchanting the second axe head, which designers in the past seemed to consider a great problem.
Pick either the +3 or the +1 flaming frost to apply to your greatsword. When you transform it back, it becomes the same quarterstaff as before.
|
True, obvious and consistent with past rulings. So if you change a transformative greatclub into a quarterstaff, only one end of the quarterstaff gets the enhancement bonus and any other magic properties.The obvious solution is that only one weapon head is enchanted.for example quaterstaff 1d6 into greatsword 2d6Probably the most worrisome exploit is the opposite: changing a two-handed weapon into a double weapon. If you can buy a cold iron transformative spear +1 and change it into a cold iron orc double axe +1, you've just saved many thousands of GP on making and enchanting the second axe head, which designers in the past seemed to consider a great problem.
This, however, poses an odd quandry. What if you create the double weapon first with all it's costs and separate heads included, then add the tranformative property? What happens to the enchatment if you chage a DOUBLE WEAPON into a TWO-HANDED weapon, like a greatsword?
As for material, just make it from the material you want to start with. Saves you trouble.
Activating a command word magic item is typically a standard action, so I would think that changing a transformative sword into something else takes up your standard action.
|
|
Activating a command word magic item is typically a standard action, so I would think that changing a transformative sword into something else takes up your standard action.
Transformative:
This ability can only be placed on a
melee weapon. A transformative weapon alters its shape
at its wielder’s command, becoming any other melee
weapon of the same general shape and handedness; the
weapon’s categorization as simple, martial, or exotic
is irrelevant. For example, a Medium transformative
longsword can take the shape of any other Medium
one-handed melee weapon, such as a scimitar, f lail, or
trident, but not a Medium light or two-handed melee
weapon (such as a Medium short sword or a Medium
greatsword). It can even take the shape of comparable
weapons of dif ferent size categories. For example, a
Small greatsword is a two-handed slashing weapon for
a Small character, but is a one-handed slashing weapon
for a Medium character, which is very similar to a
Medium longsword; a Small transformative greatsword
can become an actual Medium longsword, usable by
a Medium creature without the –2 penalty for using a
weapon of the wrong size. The weapon retains all of its
abilities, including enhancement bonuses and weapon
properties, except those prohibited by its current shape.
For example, a keen transformative weapon functions
normally in the form of a piercing or slashing weapon,
but cannot use the keen property when in the shape of
a bludgeoning weapon. When unattended, the weapon
reverts to its true shape.
Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms
and Armor, major creation; Price +10,000 gp.
It says "At the wielders command" but does NOT say that a command word is used or that the item is being activated. Using Staves, wands or most commands is a standard action because they mimic other abilities that would be a standard action, such as casting spells.
Then again, a Flaming Sword must be activated and that is a standard action, so it's probably is easier to go standard action here. There are other benefits of this weapon that balance it out.
|
|
It says "At the wielders command" but does NOT say that a command word is used or that the item is being activated. Using Staves, wands or most commands is a standard action because they mimic other abilities that would be a standard action, such as casting spells.
Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise .. The four ways to activate magic items are described below .. If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it .. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Unless it's an intelligent item, it doesn't act "at the wielder's command" by itself. Making a magic item do something magical, unless use-activated, requires some entity to take the "activate a magic item" action.
I guess I missed the bit about activating an item as a standard action. Go figure, and thanks for clearing that up.
Still, I don't know if the idea of transforming a weapon into a shield, and applying its enhancement to only the attack is consistent with general rulings... If I'm wrong, I'd love to be corrected (things would likely make more sense if I WAS corrected, perhaps that the spikes are enhanced seperately from the shield), but if I have a +5 Spiked Shield and the Improved Shield Bash feat, don't I just have a +5 weapon that also adds a lot to my AC? I dunno, I've seen fighter builds that use two shields for attack and defense and haven't seen anything saying they aren't legitimate (though silly, regardless)
For what little its worth, I ask all this not to see what I can squeeze by my DM (I haven't been a player in a group for a while), but out of concern for my own game balance as a DM.
|
|
Still, I don't know if the idea of transforming a weapon into a shield, and applying its enhancement to only the attack is consistent with general rulings... If I'm wrong, I'd love to be corrected (things would likely make more sense if I WAS corrected, perhaps that the spikes are enhanced seperately from the shield), but if I have a +5 Spiked Shield and the Improved Shield Bash feat, don't I just have a +5 weapon that also adds a lot to my AC? I dunno, I've seen fighter builds that use two shields for attack and defense and haven't seen anything saying they aren't legitimate (though silly, regardless)
Spikes are enhanced separately from the shield (p. 153) and, in general, a magic shield doesn't enhance its attack or damage on a shield bash, though you can enhance it separately as a weapon (p. 152). If you have a +5 spiked shield, you have a +5 shield that you can use as a non-magical weapon. I don't think the spikes are even masterwork unless you've paid to make them such.
I guess I didn't read as closely as I thought I had. Thanks!
The way I look at it, you can only change it into a weapon of the same general shape, so you wouldn't be able to turn anything less than a two handed weapon into a double weapon, due to length, unless you were to turn a one hander into a double weapon of a size smaller (medium to small and such). However, for example of my thought process, you would be able to turn a two handed weapon into a polearm/reachy type weapon. I do not think this would give you reach though, as it would still remain roughly the same size, but it would still give you the same shape and functionality of the weapon of choice such as disarm or trip or whatever the case may be. In addition, I don't see being able to turn a quarterstaff into an all metal weapon as the general hardness is not close, unless it is created of ironwood or something like that to boost the general hardness of the weapon. Just my two cents.
Would feats carry over to the new weapon. For example if I have Weapon focus (scimitar) and a +1 Transformative Scimitar. If I change said scimitar into a +1 Longsword, would weapon focus still work on it? What about class abilities that require a particular type of weapon, say an aldori swordlord prestige class. many of their abilities require a aldori dueling sword. Could they use a transformative aldori dueling sword in a morningstar form (to overcome Bludgeoning DR) and still gain their class benefits?
One problem I see with Transformative is that it seems to have two contradictory descriptions. The weapon can become any other melee weapon of the same general shape and hardness. And it can turn into any other melee weapon in the same size category.
The first description would allow you to switch between a meteor hammer, light flail, and light mace, since they are all melee weapons of the same general shape and hardness (in my opinion). But switching between size categories is forbidden by the second description.
Following the second description you could switch between a short spear, nine-section-whip, spiked shield, and dwarven waraxe. But those items are not of the same general shape and hardness as each other (in my opinion), making them forbidden by the first description.
The book seems to have the same problem with their example of chancing a long sword, a solid metal slashing weapon, into a flail, which is a wooden, chain, and solid metal bludgeoning weapon. Or you could turn your long sword or flail into a trident, which generally a different shape from both a long sword and flail.
There is also the vast price discrepancy between Transformative and a Bladed Belt, which does essentially the same thing. Sorry for the rant, but I really like the idea of an enchantment that can let a weapon change into another kind of weapon, I just think that the Transformative rules were poorly written.
Scenario:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
+ Arcane Duelist (Bard Archetype) - ..."proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Bards are also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields)."
+ Race: TBD but discussion centers around him/her being a Medium-sized creature - adjust accordingly if size differs.
+ Arcane Bonded Longsword (1d8 19-20/x2)
At 5th+ level ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+ Enhancement of +1 (or more) imbued on Longsword (presumably at half-cost due to Arcane Bond)
+ Transformative imbued on Longsword (+1 or more) (presumably at half-cost - i.e. 5k gp not 10k gp)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Main Purpose/Use:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can transform Longsword into a Morning Star (Simple One-handed Weapon dealing 1d8; 20/x2) that deals both Bludgeoning & Piercing so that he/she can overcome respective DR/<type>.
Alternative Purposes/Use:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Could transform the Longsword into a Short Longspear (1d6; 20/x3; brace,reach) to take advantage of brace and/or reach. Although it may be a Two-Handed Weapon to a Small Creature, the size of the weapon is effectively a One-Handed Weapon to a Medium creature. Wielding the weapon would results in a -2 to Hit (Attacks).
Could transform the Longsword into a Short Greatsword (1d10; 19-20/x2) to take advantage of the increased damage. Again,...although it may be a Two-Handed Weapon to a Small Creature, the size of the weapon is effectively a One-Handed Weapon to a Medium creature. BUT,..
Wielding the weapon would not only result in a -2 to Hit (Attacks), but also an additional -4 nonproficiency penalty as Bards are not proficient in Greatswords.
As per...
"Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies."
Inappropriate Purposes/Use:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cannot transform the Medium Longsword into a Large Longsword (2d6; 19-20/x2). Although such a transformation may result in the weapon being One-Handed Weapon to a Large Creature, the size of the weapon is effectively a Two-Handed Weapon to a Medium creature.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wait, you can't turn a non double weapon into a double weapon...or of you did you couldn't turn it back, as both ends are enchanted differently, so one end would be Transformative and the other wouldn't.
I like using Transformative with a Wizard Hook. Change it into any light weapon and the weapon gives you proficiency in it. Get the whip proficiency and then change it into a scorpion whip! Touch attack at 15'!