I am wondering if someone can tell me if they have step by step instructions on animating dead?
A member of our gaming group wishes to animate a 12 headed hydra and we find the rules confusing. Is there any more in depth instructions on how to create undead from a game mechanics view? He went with a bloody skeleton so if you could help with that it would be great.
|
Take the 12-headed hydra stats, add the adjustments listed here. Sorry I can't give you anything clearer.
Keep in mind that any variant costs twice the normal amount per HD.
Example: 1HD normal human skeleton, onyx gem worth 25 gp; 1HD Bloody human skeleton, onyx gem worth 50 gp
EDIT: Removed dumb question due to inability to properly read original post.
So a bloody skeleton cost twice the HD of the base creature? So the caster would need to be level 12 to animate one? All I saw was it was +1 CR where is the rules that it is twice the HD for animating?
|
|
Numerous variant skeletons exist, such as those whose bones burn with an unending fire and those who drip with gore and reassemble themselves over time. Both of these variant skeletons can be created using animate dead, but they count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting. Once controlled, they count normally against the controller's limit.
So a bloody skeleton cost twice the HD of the base creature? So the caster would need to be level 12 to animate one? All I saw was it was +1 CR where is the rules that it is twice the HD for animating?
Correct.
Assuming the hydra followed the HD advancement option mentioned in the bestiary (Reference), extra heads mean extra HD. By default, the CR 4 hydra has five heads and 5HD; advancing this to 12 heads means adding 7HD resulting in a 12HD hydra. Animating the hydra as a normal skeleton would require an onyx worth 300 gp; animating a Bloody 12-headed hydra (counting as 24HD for Animate Dead) would require 600 gp.
Variant undead creation rules are in the bestiary under the skeleton and zombie entries. Classic Horrors Revisited also includes useful variants.
Would it get all 12 of it's head attacks plus a slam?
Would it get all 12 of it's head attacks plus a slam?
Skeletons and Hydras do not get a slam.
Good news, sortof, only positive energy will stop it's regeneration.
... plus a slam?
That's zombies.
Another question is can a 9th level caster animates the skeleton a 12 HD creature into a Bloody skeleton? Just wondering if his limit a 9 HD creature or a 4 HD creature for animating a skeleton variant.
I think this is what I was shooting for in the first place.
Another question is can a 9th level caster animates the skeleton a 12 HD creature into a Bloody skeleton? Just wondering if his limit a 9 HD creature or a 4 HD creature for animating a skeleton variant.
I think this is what I was shooting for in the first place.
Spell says animate 2 HD per level per spell. So 9th level caster is maxed at 18 HD.
Spell say Control 4 HD per level per spell. So 9th level caster can control 36 HD Max.
Another question is can a 9th level caster animates the skeleton a 12 HD creature into a Bloody skeleton? Just wondering if his limit a 9 HD creature or a 4 HD creature for animating a skeleton variant.
I think this is what I was shooting for in the first place.
At caster level 9, he/she can animate up to 18HD (twice their caster level) per casting of Animate Dead.
Variant undead are considered twice their HD when using Animate Dead. This is only applied during creation; once animated a 1HD Bloody Skeleton still counts as 1HD in terms of control.
A caster can control up to 4HD per caster level (created with Animate Dead).
This means a 9th level caster can create a normal 12-headed hydra skeleton, but not a bloody 12-headed hydra skeleton (which counts as 24HD).
(Off-topic) If I were GMing the game, I'd let the caster create a "botched" bloody 9-headed hydra (with neck stumps flailing around), but still expending the full amount of resources as if animating 24HD worth.
Also I don't believe the hydra retains regeneration, as that would be a special quality specifically listed as not carrying over in the template.Another question is can a 9th level caster animates the skeleton a 12 HD creature into a Bloody skeleton? Just wondering if his limit a 9 HD creature or a 4 HD creature for animating a skeleton variant.
I think this is what I was shooting for in the first place.
Correct. It would lose Fast Healing, Hydra Traits, and Regenerate Heads.
So a ninth level caster could make a bloody skeleton from a 9 HD creature's skeleton.
I understood no special qualities would be carried over but I had not though about someone sundering the heads like a hydra.
Now if a ninth level caster wanted to create a bloody burning skeleton the highest level that could be created is 6 HD because each HD would be counted at three right?
So a ninth level caster could make a bloody skeleton from a 9 HD creature's skeleton.
Yeah, per casting of Animate Dead.
I understood no special qualities would be carried over but I had not though about someone sundering the heads like a hydra.
Well if I was GMing, I'd just say the heads (and most of the necks) flopped onto the ground rather than requiring sundering the hydra's excess heads. The "one hydra head == +1HD" thing is a game mechanic; cutting off the head doesn't change the fact that it's a 12HD critter.
Other GMs might not allow the attempt.
Now if a ninth level caster wanted to create a bloody burning skeleton the highest level that could be created is 6 HD because each HD would be counted at three right?
That's the way I'd rule it, but some GMs might not allow casters to stack undead variants onto one undead.
As GM i would be hesitant, most like say no, to allowing a Bloody Burning Skeleton.
Even if i did say yes, i would want it counted as 4.
2 for bloody and 2 for burning.
Correct
Desecrated Area only double the creation amount, not the amount you control.
So Animate Dead + Desecrated Area will let you create 4 HD per level per casting.
You can control up to 4 HD of undead that you create. ((baring some feat, or class feature not listed)).
Hi Russ, its "Modeus" from Eastside monday nights, I'm glad you looked into this because I will be animating 8HD zombies when my Bone Oracle hits lvl 4.
Neet, I ran into someone I know here!
Now I see your post. Did you see my question and replies about PFS and animated and controlled undead? They will not last past the end of the scenario.
As GM i would be hesitant, most like say no, to allowing a Bloody Burning Skeleton.
Even if i did say yes, i would want it counted as 4.
2 for bloody and 2 for burning.
Is that a linear cost or a geometric cost? So does an acid bloody burning cost 6 or 8?
|
OK, so, just to reiterate here, in order to "create" a skeleton, I HAVE to have a creatures corpse and it MUST have a skeleton.
The template gets added on to the corpse based off what it was? In essence, if I want a higher HD skeleton or zombie, I must go find the corpse of a higher HD dead thing?
In other words, I cant just jaunt off down to the morgue and grab a dead dude, and then turn it into a 8HD zombie/skeleton, even though I am capable of making 8HD undead....
I would HAVE to apply the template to him (so if he were a 1hd peasant, I get a 1hd skeleton?
There is no other way to get a HD undead than to find a corpse of a formerly living 8HD whatever and then animate it??
|
|
Now I see your post. Did you see my question and replies about PFS and animated and controlled undead? They will not last past the end of the scenario.Hi Russ, its "Modeus" from Eastside monday nights, I'm glad you looked into this because I will be animating 8HD zombies when my Bone Oracle hits lvl 4.
Neet, I ran into someone I know here!
Yeah, I could care less if it lasts or not, I just don't want to have to RP out the running around searching out 8hd corpses for me to animate. I am sure that even in Absalom, finding a dead body of a 8HD whomever would be a small challenge, and not exactly what PFS would want me doing EVERY SINGLE ADVENTURE.
|
|
OK, so, just to reiterate here, in order to "create" a skeleton, I HAVE to have a creatures corpse and it MUST have a skeleton.
The template gets added on to the corpse based off what it was? In essence, if I want a higher HD skeleton or zombie, I must go find the corpse of a higher HD dead thing?
In other words, I cant just jaunt off down to the morgue and grab a dead dude, and then turn it into a 8HD zombie/skeleton, even though I am capable of making 8HD undead....
I would HAVE to apply the template to him (so if he were a 1hd peasant, I get a 1hd skeleton?
There is no other way to get a HD undead than to find a corpse of a formerly living 8HD whatever and then animate it??
Yes, the HD of the corpse determines the HD of the skeleton. Also, HD from class levels don't count. Only racial HD. So, a 10th-level Human Fighter gives you the same 1 HD skeleton as the 1st-level Commoner. Well, maybe the Fighter has higher ability scores than the Commoner, but it is still only a 1 HD skeleton.
And you can't use Animate Dead to turn a creature with more than 20 HD into a skeleton, so there is a HD limit too.
So wait, I have to animate skeletons/zombies from monsters to get higher hit die undead?? Bill the Exalted Paladin, whose corpse lies in repose beneath his monument will only net me a 1HD zombie????
So wait, I have to animate skeletons/zombies from monsters to get higher hit die undead?? Bill the Exalted Paladin, whose corpse lies in repose beneath his monument will only net me a 1HD zombie????
hehe yeah....
Bomanz wrote:
So wait, I have to animate skeletons/zombies from monsters to get higher hit die undead?? Bill the Exalted Paladin, whose corpse lies in repose beneath his monument will only net me a 1HD zombie????
And thus the Create Undead spell which steps in to fill the gaps.
Personaly I like the bone/corpse creature templates from 3.5 for critters like Bill the Exalted Paladin.
So wait, I have to animate skeletons/zombies from monsters to get higher hit die undead?? Bill the Exalted Paladin, whose corpse lies in repose beneath his monument will only net me a 1HD zombie????OK, so, just to reiterate here, in order to "create" a skeleton, I HAVE to have a creatures corpse and it MUST have a skeleton.
The template gets added on to the corpse based off what it was? In essence, if I want a higher HD skeleton or zombie, I must go find the corpse of a higher HD dead thing?
In other words, I cant just jaunt off down to the morgue and grab a dead dude, and then turn it into a 8HD zombie/skeleton, even though I am capable of making 8HD undead....
I would HAVE to apply the template to him (so if he were a 1hd peasant, I get a 1hd skeleton?
There is no other way to get a HD undead than to find a corpse of a formerly living 8HD whatever and then animate it??
Yes, the HD of the corpse determines the HD of the skeleton. Also, HD from class levels don't count. Only racial HD. So, a 10th-level Human Fighter gives you the same 1 HD skeleton as the 1st-level Commoner. Well, maybe the Fighter has higher ability scores than the Commoner, but it is still only a 1 HD skeleton.
And you can't use Animate Dead to turn a creature with more than 20 HD into a skeleton, so there is a HD limit too.
That's not in the spell or the monster description.
So it's in skeleton but not in Zombie.
The paladin in question could be turned into a bloody, burning skeleton with just the minimum hit dice. The consecrated ground would limit things. Right?
So wait, I have to animate skeletons/zombies from monsters to get higher hit die undead?? Bill the Exalted Paladin, whose corpse lies in repose beneath his monument will only net me a 1HD zombie????
I would go with the bloody and/or burning skeleton myself. Both become very effective in combat. Do both on a humanoid skeleton and your 1 HD monster that cost 4 HD does some real combat. Several burning skeletons makes for a warm night's sleep too. Burning bloody skeletons would be a great way to dig an ice tunnel too.
So it's in skeleton but not in Zombie.
The paladin in question could be turned into a bloody, burning skeleton with just the minimum hit dice. The consecrated ground would limit things. Right?So...you don't actually read the rules before posting, do you?
From the zombie entry:
"Hit Dice: Drop HD gained from class levels (minimum of 1) and change racial HD to d8s. Zombies gain a number of additional HD as noted on the following table."
The main difference with HD between skeletons and zombies is that zombies get bonus HD based on size. If you turn a 10th-level Fighter into a zombie, it is a 2 HD zombie.
Read your own BLOODY post.
Skelitons are 1D8 unless there are racial hit dice.It's not my bloody fault that zombies are different.
I've been digging around and havent found aneything to answer erik542's question "Is that a linear cost or a geometric cost?".
As a player I want to say linear but as a DM I want to say goemetric.
In the end I think that its a game balance question and thus the DM's call.
I removed a post. Be respectful.
Ok, how to Animate Dead customer support:
If turning customer support into a skeleton, their type changes to undead, they drops all customer support class levels, they get some claws, natural armor, and they now have no intelligence score...
That explains so much!
Also Animate Dead thread much?
|
|
Ok....so now that I can make Skeleton Champions, then give them the "Burning" or "Bloody" trait, my question is :
Burning or Bloody says it costs twice the HD...is that twice the HD of the base skeleton, or after I mod it to a Skeleton Champion?
See, thought is, as a lvl 6 caster, I can make the Skeleton Champion a Bloody Skeleton Champion, or even a Bloody Burning Skeleton Champion, all from a 1HD human.
1HD = Human
+2HD = Skeleton Champion
x2 = Burning
-------
6HD
x2 = Bloody
------
12HD total for animate dead spell max total at 6th lvl
3HD total skeleton
Is that formula correct?
|
I'm fairly sure that, like all other multipliers, the template's are stacked together instead of adding them one by one.
Ie, two x2 multipliers equal x3 and so on, so the format should be:
1HD human
+2 HD for skeleton champion
= 3 HD,
Burning is x2, so it adds another +3 HD to the the creature (for 6HD)
Bloody is also x2, which means it also adds another +3 HD (for a total of 9HD).
At least, this is how all other multipliers are added together.
Heh. Well, I think you are right. A doubled doubling is a tripling.
|
|
I like Tomppak88's suggestion, and I get that other stacking multipliers work that way, but for some reason that sounds almost too good to be true to me, and thus I would debate it.
This post is well over a year old now, i have moved on to other characters...
but it would be great to have it clarified for sure.
Just to throw in my own hat into the arena, and perhaps confuse matters further, the Undead Master feat from Ultimate Magic increases your effective caster level by four for the Animate Dead spell. A wannabe undead raiser with this feat and under a desecrate spell can create an insane amount of undead hit die.
Just to throw in my own hat into the arena, and perhaps confuse matters further, the Undead Master feat from Ultimate Magic increases your effective caster level by four for the Animate Dead spell. A wannabe undead raiser with this feat and under a desecrate spell can create an insane amount of undead hit die.
Indeed, he can CREATE (caster level+4)x4 HD of skeletons/zombies, but the feat does NOT increase your controlling ability = stays at 4HD per caster level ;)
Only use this feat has with desecration is if he uses command undead on all the undead beyond the control limit of the spell, or creating higher HD variant undeads:)Example:
CL 9 Cleric, with desecration:
Create (9+4)x4 HD worth of skeletons = 52 HD of skeletons (each single one capped at 20HD)
So creating a 20HD bloody skeleton would cost 40HD of the 52, still 12 HD left for good measure ;)
Max control = 36 HD
PS: Might be wrong about the bloody skeleton creation, but does the double hd at creation count again the 20HD cap? That is; 20HD bloody skeleton costs 40HD at creation, but is 20HD for control purposes, does this break the cap?
It increases your caster level by four for the purposes of animate dead, that's what it goes off to control undead.
In the example cleric above, he has a cleric level of nine, if he had the Undead Master Feat he would have effective CL 13 for the purposes of Animate Dead only. That would allow 26 HD of Undead to be created in one casting, and a total of 52 HD to be controlled in total. That is not including the additional 13 HD that could be controlled via the Command Undead Feat.
Bloody or Flaming Skeletons count as twice their HD for Animating them, but are counted as their regular HD for the purposes of controlling them.
Hmm...a 20HD kraken would make a 26HD zombie (+6HD for Gargantuan size), and a kraken skeleton would be impossible as they have no bones.
Undead Mastery considers the caster to be 4 levels higher for max HD to animate...bringing your lv6 to lv10...
You can animate 2HD/lv, so even at effective level 10 you could only animate a 20HD creature (see above). This is still possible within a Desacrate Spell, as it doubles max HD to 40HD.
Really cool idea, though!