James Risner Owner - D20 Hobbies |
No one has any experience or ideas? I thought it was a really cool idea
It would entirely depend on GM mechanics.
There isn't even a hint of how to do this in the core book.
A rough Draft of it would be to take the wealth by level of the starting campaign and build a magic item of that level.
But you would likely be considerably more powerful than designed because you would be "like" an item a PC would have bought.
So maybe doing the half the wealth deal, since a PC of level X gets Y gp for wealth by level and typically can spend only Y/2 for one item maximum.
Ambrus |
I'd suggest taking a look at Monte Cook's Complete Book of Eldritch Might. Although not specifically geared for use as player characters, it does include an entire chapter dedicated to the creation of custom sentient items which advance in power through level advancement much as characters do. There's even a fair selection of sentient item specific feats and spells in the book. It being 3.5 compliant there shouldn't be need for much tweaking beyond that needed to make it balance well with other more conventional PCs.
As for the type of item, that depends largely on your character concept. Being challenged in issues of independence, communication and social interaction, I'd propose a book that specializes in various knowledge skills and divinations abilities; your character can be the party's know-it-all. It could initially be limited to communicating with written words and drawings. As it advances it could gain vocal abilities and perhaps even mobility via flight; achieved by flapping it's covers like a bird's wings. Just a thought.
Rathendar |
In the game I am starting soon I intend (DM knows and is ok with it) to make a character that is an intelligent item. We haven't worked out the details yet. I'd like some ideas and advice on how this would work and what everyone things
Thank you
In the brainstorming angle, i can put out various ideas. These have not been playtested however. =p
I generally envision the circlet worn by the evil witch in Lodoss War when i read your initial post.
I'd consider it a Headband slot, and treat it as a cursed item as far as having a chosen "host."
Give yourself mental stats only (int, wis, cha) so you have a smaller point buy then a normal PC.
I'd suggest a spontaneous caster of either arcane or divine. Sorcerer would be perfect for Kharla(the lodoss war one) and require you to only take skills tied to your actual stats.
Then you have your "host" and you level up in your class like the PC's. It's a bit abstract, but doesn't overwhelm the 'power curve.'
My concerns as a DM however would be trying to "minmax" the concept to break it.
Find a physical juggernaut with a mind of a pea, and force it on them, for example.
Another PC wearing it, etc.
Does it work only on members of a specific race? (i'd highly suggest making that so.)
Things like that would have to be addressed well in advance of it seeing actual play.
Hope those are some kind of help to jog ideas.
KilroySummoner |
you could use the pet mechanic to make the pc holding the intelligent item the pet (with less int) and have the item want to get into the hands of a more and more powerful pc (that it dominates as its pet). Levels correspond to constantly forcing your pets to attack a harder npcs and whoever wins has the urge to pick up the item and shortly become dominated as a new pet.
Mcarvin |
I'm considering a ring being a ring or an amulet.
Knowing my DM i'd say there is a pretty good chance that he will control my "host" as an NPC. Especially when I am not the dominant member of the relationship.
I'd say that I will be able to cast a certain number of spells and have an abstract affect on my host.
He will tie my character in specifically with the over arching campaign plot.
Duncan & Dragons |
This might not help, but I have several times considered the idea of a 'possessed' item as a character. Basically, a sword or something inhabited by a ghost.
I never got far, but it was around when Ghostwalk came out. I could not figure out how to make it so that the ghost can do things that help or compliment the carrying character or party without becoming a 'super' character (invisible, intangible, etc.). Also not over-shadow the party because the person carrying the possessed item became 'as powerful' as two characters. Maybe the ghost could only talk to the bearer out of combat (and see through their senses), but in combat the ghost would be released to be a combatant.
I wanted to make the ghost's goal to get resurrected or something so that the character was not a dead end.
I throw it out there because this might get you some of the role-playing you want without the need for domination or the liabilites of the 'host'.
Mcarvin |
You could look at being a Legacy Item, as your "wielder" leveled up you would increase in power and gain additional abilities.
You have a neat concept, but I think it might feel a bit limiting.
Good luck.
Yeah that's the only thing i'm scared of is the possiblitiy of a limiting feeling.
But depending on how I play it i should have a fool to manipulate if I'm evil or a companion to complement if i'm good. so I can play bicariously.
Deidre Tiriel |
What about playing both the NPC and the item?
What you'd end up with would be a split personality.
Say the item is good but you are evil (or vice versa) The person always has a negative level because of this. A negative level would make up for the special abilities of the item.
Any enhancements on the item would have to be paid for, as if it was being crafted.
The person could refuse to take off the ring because it's been in his family, swore an oath, whatever, and have no idea it is what is causing the split personality. He just thinks he's a little crazy, because he's always been like this.
Every morning roll to see who takes control, the item or the person.
Mcarvin |
I suggest you don't make an NPC to bear the item. If you do, you've made an unkillable, almost unthreatenable, player.
What class would your PC like to play?
Ahh so you suggest that the int. item be like a race? So it would gain levels in a class like normal?
I guess i viewed it as that the item would be the character itself. It would just become more powerful as time progressed.
Firest |
Have you considered taking a cue from the Soul Eater manga/anime? Many of the characters are people who can change into magic weapons that are wielded by their partners. One character changes into a scythe, another is a ninja who can change into a sword, kuni with chain, and a smoke cloud, and there are a pair of twin sisters who change into dual pistols.
Mcarvin |
I'm really excited about this character... the idea is very interesting. One of my friends and another PC Offered to be the wielder of this item. I think i'm going to deny him this one though. I don't want to tie my character down so tightly to his. Also if he doesn't come then I won't be viable to play lol.
The way it's heading is I think I'll be held/worn by an NPC type who I will be able to greatly influence. eventually I'll probably maintain permanent dominance. But both the DM and Me will control the PC. Possibly me controlling him in combat and the DM controlling him (with my influence) out of combat.
I'm looking more for utility and interesting story than optimization. The DM will make the fights difficult but beatable no matter how unoptomized we are.
Blueluck |
Ahh so you suggest that the int. item be like a race? So it would gain levels in a class like normal?
I think that the easiest way to balance a character over a number of levels and situations is to use as much existing game material as possible. My question is, what types of abilities do you want to have?
Personally, I think the easiest characters to make into an item would be those who get a pet capable of carrying said item. That way the power of your "bearer" has already been accounted for in your character class.
Druid - Character is an amulet worn by the Animal Companion.
Wizard/Witch/Sorcerer - Character is worn by the Familiar
(A Sorcerer with Arcane bloodline can get a familiar.)
Selgard |
I can imagine this as a wizard or sorc with a bonded item- your body of course being your bonded item. This lets you put your treasure towards enchanting yourself. (sorc- come to think of it. wouldn't want that pesky spellbook thing getting in the way).
Alternatively- I could see an awesome summoner here with your Eidolon wielding you in battle as a weapon, or wearing you as an amulet or such.
Somatic components use the natural limbs of the casting creature.. you have no limbs, so I'd likely just waive that- rather than require you to Still Spell anything. (maybe impose a Natural Spell type feat tax, but maybe not since you are forgoing any sort of independent movement to do this).
Maybe an Eidolon wielding his summoner into battle while the pair works to right some wrong from a previous life, or such.
Could be fun.
-S
Lyrax |
Yeah, the NPC in question should either level up like an Animal Companion/Eidolon, or like a Cohort. Assuming you're uncomfortable with having a PC bearer.
Converting all your WBL into yourself is one way to get this done, but it won't leave any money for cool toys afterwards. I'd recommend working out some kind of XP to GP exchange rate with the GM so that you can have more WBL than everyone else. This is to balance out the fact that XP does you no good.
So maybe you could end up with WBL of a level or two higher than the rest of the party, because your wealth is pulling double duty?
Mcarvin |
Yeah, the NPC in question should either level up like an Animal Companion/Eidolon, or like a Cohort. Assuming you're uncomfortable with having a PC bearer.
Converting all your WBL into yourself is one way to get this done, but it won't leave any money for cool toys afterwards. I'd recommend working out some kind of XP to GP exchange rate with the GM so that you can have more WBL than everyone else. This is to balance out the fact that XP does you no good.
So maybe you could end up with WBL of a level or two higher than the rest of the party, because your wealth is pulling double duty?
Agreed I like this idea. So my experience could go to money for my ego/item abilities and the money i could say equip the companion i'm with =)
Mcarvin |
Yup now I just gotta think about ideas for the class I choose.
Druid would be interesting with an animal companion.
Sorcerer with arcane would be meh cause the familiar isn't that powerful. Although I'd be a lot of fun to fly around on a hawks neck =D above the battlefield lol.
Witch would be similar to sorcerer.
Wizard probably couldn't happen because of the whole "spellbook" thing lol.
that's pretty much my options i guess. What are some interesting ideas about these options?
Abraham spalding |
Actually I'm really digging the wizard -- you could be a blessed book with the telekensis power, and you could have an intelligent staff as your arcane bond that you activate with your telekensis.
Yeah telekensis and the flight item powers with an arcane bond intelligent staff -- that sounds like scads of fun to me.
Ringtail |
Actually I'm really digging the wizard -- you could be a blessed book with the telekensis power, and you could have an intelligent staff as your arcane bond that you activate with your telekensis.
Yeah telekensis and the flight item powers with an arcane bond intelligent staff -- that sounds like scads of fun to me.
A book and a staff for a character, eh? As if fire wasn't dangerous enough to a PC... ;P
Abraham spalding |
How does hardness work for an intelligent item? Is it honestly just standard? Are there any bonuses to HP at all?
Hardness is standard but magical weapons and armor get bonuses to hardness and HP. If you go with a non-weapon magical item you might want to consider getting yourself enchanted as a magical weapon anyways just to get those bonuses (and to increase your slam damage -- if you are ever that desparate).
Mcarvin |
So i've looked around at the sorcerer with arcane bloodline and I'm starting to think that this is going to be unfair.
A low level character that can fly around on his familiars(BTW i'm thinking OWL cause that would just be super cool!) neck and cast fireballs from above just seems OP. If I get protection from arrows it's just over.
Does anyone see a lot of balance issues with this? I'm meeting with the DM on Friday to talk about it so I'll prolly use a lot of stuff from this forum.
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
I'll throw this out there as a possibility. For "balance" purposes, have the PC take Leadership, so the NPC is a "cohort."
Years ago in a 3.0 game, my character received an amulet that turned out to be an intelligent item. It was a fully functional Cleric-7 in a can.
I used it as my own personal buff bot/healbot. While I suppose it seemed overpowered at the time, I don't see why I is inherently worse than having a Cleric-7 cohort.
Consider the amount of healing a Cleric-7 has though, and buffs, it can keep a fighter up for quite a while.
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
Malachi Silverclaw |
I once hat a 2nd edition fighter that was based on the idea that, instead of a high level fighter having an intelligent magic sword, I played an intelligent magic sword that had a high level fighter!
The fighter was called Kennet Steel (he looked like Kenneth Irons out of the Witchblade comic), and his mental stats were, how can I put this kindly, 'unremarkable'! The sword was called Havoc, and it's ego was such that it couldn't fail to dominate the wielder. Being good aligned, the sword 'interviewed' the potential wielder, and offered to enter into an arrangement where they willingly entered into a symbiotic relationship, dominated by the sword. When in control, the sword telepathically 'told' Kennet what to say, effectively speaking through him. When he was not wielding the sword he called himself Kennet Steel, but when the sword was in hand the gestalt entity called itself Havoc. There were two different personalities going on, but only one at a time.
It was an interesting and rewarding role-playing experience, and it didn't hurt that, as a team, they totally kicked bottom!
Ezunmaker |
Well, this post is a bit late - but here's my opinion.
An intelligent magical item is certainly a viable option for an enjoyable and challenging player character.
Since most intelligent items don't advance in a character class (well, none really) a good way to offset this is to come up in advance with a list of powers that the item has, and will have once they are unlocked. New powers can be unlocked when the wielder hits a certain level, or when other criteria are met (it slays 100 orcs, travels across the deep seas, scores an instant kill on a hit, is underwater, is in the presence of a diety, its bearer is targeted with an "x" level spell, etc.)
It may also be a good idea to have an item that does not necessarily have to posses its wielder to move and can move about freely on its own accord - i.e. a pair of magical boots, a dancing sword, maybe even a figurine of wondrous power.
Keep in mind that not all gm's will be up to the task of having a player as an intelligent magical item in their campaigns, and some players may grow bored or be too challenged playing one.
Another fun idea would be to let the player live as the magical item for a time, and then perhaps send the PC's on a quest to find some artifact, machine, or powerful being that can transfer the soul of the character in the item back into its original body (once they have located and acquired the body - which could be a quest of its own) or into a different body.
Anyway, just some thoughts I had when seeing this thread. As always, have fun and above all else...
KEEP ROLLING 20's.
haremlord |
In an epic 3e game, I played a fiend of corruption/fiend of possession (prestige classes from a monster book... can't remember right now which one). Because they could possess items, I was an "intelligent sword". I took leadership so my cohort was a big dumb fighter who thought he had an awesome weapon. My character was all about corrupting enemies. It was fun for a little bit (one of the other players was all about slaughtering everything we came across, so I didn't get to do much corrupting :P)
I took the character out of the game but I planned on bringing them back as an intelligent quarterstaff and changing my cohort :) Never got a chance, tho.
Aloysius34 |
There was that olf french RPG "bloodlust" which was all about intelligent weapons and their holders... Of course, some silly players dropped their "holder" when they found a more powerfull warrior ; and then, theyr dropped the weapon when they found a more powerfull one...
Anwyway, I would recommand you and your DM some mechanic that allows you to either project a (somewhat solid ?) manifestation of your spirit, or to morph yourself into a (demi)human being. Or both. Let say 1 round/level for the morphing stuff, and one hour for the "astral body". This would help you greatly to have meaningful interaction with the story.