Could you enchant a weapon that is not classified as a "thrown weapon"
(say a Sai) with Returning?
A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown..
Or would you first have to enchant the Sai with the Throwing ability?
Could you enchant a weapon that is not classified as a "thrown weapon"
** spoiler omitted **
(say a Sai) with Returning?
** spoiler omitted **
Or would you first have to enchant the Sai with the Throwing ability?
Well by RAW, I think not. Thrown weapons are specific weapons (that has a range).
However I wouldn't mind it at all. No matter what weapons you throw, it won't be a strong build.
Remember that improvised thrown weapons takes a standard (light or one-handed) or a full round action (two-handed) to throw. So you'll be limited to only one attack per round.
However I wouldn't mind it at all. No matter what weapons you throw, it won't be a strong build.
I get that it may not be a strong build, but he'll be a fun character.
However I wouldn't mind it at all. No matter what weapons you throw, it won't be a strong build.I get that it may not be a strong build, but he'll be a fun character.
I can definately see that, and that is also why, if I were your GM, would allow it in an instant :-)
If you take quick draw you can make as many throws as you have attacks per round.
Quick Draw (Combat)You can draw weapons faster than most.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.
A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).
Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat.
If you take quick draw you can make as many throws as you have attacks per round.
I stand corrected. I thought improvised thrown weapons deviated from regular ones, but it seems they don't.
And if you have two-weapon fighting feats that will increase again the number of throws you get in a round. Just think of standing by the kitchen cabinet and throwing all of the plates in one round. I'm planning to try this in a future adventure just to see how it really plays.
Edit: In regards to the original question, I would think most GMs would have you put throwing on a weapon before returning if it isn't normally classified as a thrown weapon.
In regards to the original question, I would think most GMs would have you put throwing on a weapon before returning if it isn't normally classified as a thrown weapon.
RAW states that Returning can be placed on "a weapon that can be thrown."
That being said, any weapon can be thrown.
"It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown."
Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown . A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.
I think that means that the weapon itself has to have the quality of it being thrown. It wouldn't make sense for me that the weapon can be enchanted when it can be thrown by someone with throw anything but then loose that enchantment when someone else picked it up.
Enchanting it with returning would probably work.
In regards to the original question, I would think most GMs would have you put throwing on a weapon before returning if it isn't normally classified as a thrown weapon.RAW states that Returning can be placed on "a weapon that can be thrown."
That being said, any weapon can be thrown.
"It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown."
If that's the case then the statement is meaningless. Since they went through the trouble of putting it there, it has to mean something: a weapon with a range increment.
Ammo. You can't make returning arrows or crossbow bolts.
You can throw an arrow as easily as you can a two handed sword.
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Well since arrows lose their magical charge when they hit their target they would never return
I kind of like the idea of arrows that return to the quiver at the end of the round after fired. Seems like a nice use of a +1 bonus. I would make the player pay the same price as a persistent weapon though not the ammunition price.
So if I am reading this right, if I have a monk with throw anything that attacks people with candlestick (if Col. Mustard can do it...so can I), I would have to enchant the Masterwork Candlestick with 'Throwing' before I could enchant it with 'Returning'...
Is that the concensus?
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So if I am reading this right, if I have a monk with throw anything that attacks people with candlestick (if Col. Mustard can do it...so can I), I would have to enchant the Masterwork Candlestick with 'Throwing' before I could enchant it with 'Returning'...
Is that the concensus?
The throwing enhancement enables people to throw a weapon without a penalty. With throw anything you don't have a penalty. It's completely superfluous. The only question in my mind is whether it's even eligible to acquire weapon enhancements since it's not a weapon.
As a GM I would totally allow a +1 returning frosty ever-full beer mug not sure what the pricing would be but I certainly wouldn't force people to take throwing on it as some sort of bizarre tax.
In regards to the original question, I would think most GMs would have you put throwing on a weapon before returning if it isn't normally classified as a thrown weapon.RAW states that Returning can be placed on "a weapon that can be thrown."
That being said, any weapon can be thrown.
"It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown."
Do it your way then, that's why I said MOST GMs. I wouldn't allow a returning longsword in a game I ran unless it also had throwing on it.
So if I am reading this right, if I have a monk with throw anything that attacks people with candlestick (if Col. Mustard can do it...so can I), I would have to enchant the Masterwork Candlestick with 'Throwing' before I could enchant it with 'Returning'...
That's my interpretation. And it will start getting expensive when he wants to put it on the lead pipe and the wrench as well.
I know people have not talked about this for a while, at least in this thread, but has anyone considered that a weapon without the throwing property, but has the returning property, already has its own costs/penalties factored in, meaning its possible without the "throwing" enhancement, but not exactly the best use of the weapon?
If we look at the aforementioned returning longsword, and a character doesn't have the throwing ability on it but wants the opportunity to throw it once in a while without switching weapons, its not exactly optimal. There are so many issues to work around I can't see how it could be abused to the point of just not allowing it?
I ask because even with the returning property, a longsword isn't meant to be thrown, so its going to take a standard action to throw, and a free action to catch on the return, regardless of abilities it possesses other than "throwing". The weapon is still going to suffer a -4 on the attack roll, since its not what it was meant for. Not to mention that if you throw it at anything further than 10ft away, you are looking at range increment penalties. Throwing this longsword at someone 15ft away not only provokes AoO, but suffers a -6 penalty. With a FEAT yes this can be cut down to only -2 (still taking the standard action to throw and provoking), but if the GM still isn't comfortable with a character whipping his sword 6 times in a round at someone 30ft away, it is up to the GM to determine how many free actions, based on what the free actions are, that can be done in a round. You could easily say, in 6 seconds, its unreasonable for the longsword to come back more than once. Even Quick Draw can't change that, since it is referencing something that is already on you, and it doesn't matter how fast a person is if they have to wait for a magic item to reappear.
Sorry if this post seems unnecessary, I'm just trying to understand how other GMs make decisions and whatnot.
As a note, you cannot throw any weapon with the returning property more than once a round. As a general thing a longsword doesnt qualify for tge returnig propert. ( the throw anything debate asside)
There is a light throwing hammer you can make multiple attacks with,but it bounces off people and is still only thrown once.
But I guess my question is WHY doesn't a longsword qualify for the returning property? I didn't want to go this route, but if you want to "rules lawyer" it, ANY item can be thrown, and the wording for the returning property reads:
Aura Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus.
DESCRIPTION
This ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown.
A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.
Correct me if I am wrong, or point me to the errata, but this does not say that it has to have the "thrown" property, so wouldn't that mean that it can be used on any weapon, even if you wanted to "throw" your crossbow at someone? I just figured it was a common sense thing (I know, common sense can't exist in forums! lol) that you probably shouldn't use the special ability on certain things, but I am failing to see why a blanket statement that you can't do it would be implemented in particular campaigns? Just based on a cost versus reward system.
Also, isn't it possible that the intent for the wording was so people can't apply "returning" to say a longbow, or a crossbow and never run out of ammo, rather than make people fight over what can be thrown and what can't?
Again, I get that some GM's don't want it in their campaigns, and I am not trying to impose my will on anyone, I just don't see why it matters, so I am trying to understand.