austinmonster |
Cooperative games are usually known as being brutally difficult. If you take a game like Ghost Stories or even Forbidden Island (on a more challenging mode) you usually end up loosing more than you win. The thing that keeps people coming back to co-op games is that they are a challenge and that you can't just auto-pilot your way to victory. The real only way that most co-op games are REALLY exciting is when you have a very real chance of loosing.
What sort of win/loss rates have everyone experienced? I'm not sure if i've gotten really lucky, or if the game gets dramatically harder, but we've been successful almost every time we've played. When playing in solo mode with two characters, I've won every single game up though attack on sandpoint. When playing with new players in a 5 player game, we won all three attempts though the lost coast missions. In the five player games, our victory often came down to the last two blessing cards. At no time, did we get a victory when it wasn't that player's "last turn" (AKA- there were not enough blessings to make it around the table to get to them again). When playing solo with two characters though, i've found that I always end up with at least 8 to 12 blessing cards left over.
We've never had a character death either.
Long question short - How often do you loose? How often do you suffer character death? Do you think the game is too easy? Do you think it will get dramatically harder with each new adventure deck? What are your thoughts?
Cheezgrater |
My farthest along play is a 4-player solo. I have just cleared "Trouble", and am looking at around 50%-ish win rate. My losses are due to the blessings deck running out.
In total, I have 8 separate campaigns going with different groups/sizes, and we have had 2 character deaths in about 30-ish games, so a little less than 1-in-10 character death. We've also had a couple *really* close calls (If this card I'm about to flip isn't the villain or I don't beat him, I'm dead because I won't be able to refresh my hand at the end of this turn.)
Kevin Fernandes |
I played Brigandoom four times solo with four different characters (I only play one character in solo play) and only beat it once and I think it was more from luck than anything (the henchmen came up pretty quick and the villain was the top card of the final location). I died once when using Ezren alone, the other two sessions time ran out.
In our group, there are three of us and we have completed the first two scenarios but took two tries each so we are 50/50. In both loses time ran out through if we did not have Kyra to heal I am pretty sure there would have been at least one if not two deaths along the way.
I have found that playing more conservatively (not taking full advantage of extra explorations for instance) has resulted in running out of time more often than not. Being more aggressive and spreading the group out has yielded better results for the most part.
I feel, so far at least, that there is a reasonable balance between the difficulty of the current cards and the strength and abilities of the characters. The randomness really plays a key role here, case in point, some days you roll well others you don't. I do expect the game to get more difficult as it progresses (that would only seem reasonable) but hopefully the characters are getting more powerful too :)
Mogloth |
I've been in a 4 player group and we cleared Perils of the Lost Coast without losing a scenario. 3 of us from that 4 player group started our own group. We played all the way through the Burnt Offerings adventure without a loss. And we played different characters from what we played in our 4 player group.
So, right now I'm 7-0 total with 2 different groups.
Mechalibur |
Well, here's what I've noticed:
When you play solo, you're far more likely to lose from running out of cards than from running out of blessings. You also sometimes will suffer getting "stuck" in certain locations. The cave-in barrier (I forget the name) can really mess up a player, for example. Ezren probably has the hardest time with getting stuck, since he can't use blessings to boost his rolls.
With more players, it's important to make good use of abilities that let you explore multiple times, and unless you're really ahead, you should almost always try to close locations when given the opportunity.
That said, the win rate is still pretty high for the earlier adventures, which I'm sure is intentional. After all, in most co-op games, you can just reload if you die. In the PF card game, you shuffle your whole deck back into the box (well, after the party loots you :) )
Karui Kage |
My group has played the first five scenarios (all of the Lost Coast ones and the first two of Burnt Offerings) with a 100% win ratio so far. I'm actually kind of surprised, and we've been checking the boards mercilessly to make sure we've done everything right. There have been some very close calls (ended one scenario literally on the last blessings card), but no losses so far.
Our group:
Myself - Ezren: Lots of damage spells, acolyte allies, etc. Relies on other characters for healing, just hops around blasting enemies.
Lem: The bard seems to be one of the best characters to have around. He got lucky and found some extra Cure spells early on (technically Basic, he could have started with more if he wanted) and he quickly swapped in 2-3 of them plus Sanctuary. Whenever he had Sanctuary, he'd swap it with a Cure in discard. Otherwise, he just kept himself and us healed very quickly. Awesome support.
The other killer combo with Lem now is after we gave him the Spyglass. He can move to a location with it ready, Glibness, and an attack spell. Spyglass to see if there's a monster. If so, put it on top. Glibness, encounter, destroy. Then switch out cards in discard with new ones to get back the combo (assuming he doesn't Refresh, which we found is optional).
Kyra: She's become the tank in our game. Already a decent melee of 1d6+2, we gave her a magic shortspear we found to up the damage even more. If we ever see an undead, she's the first one to go for it. Nothing crazy about her, but she did get really lucky on one scenario. In the first scenario of Burnt Offerings she was able to go to four locations in four turns, each time finding one of the henchmen (not in the first exploration, usually after a blessing/ally was played for more). Each time she killed it, and each time she closed the location. Also helps that she's the only one who can wear the stronger armors, so that goes to her.
Sajan: Our back-up tank, great for Acrobatics/dex stuff. If there is a Blessing of Erastil on the top of the blessings deck, you can bet we use our blessings of the gods to emulate it and give him a boost. Got the Holy Candle early on to get back some of our time.
But yeah. Overall, not too difficult so far. *Tons* of fun though :)
J Scot Shady |
My wife and I have played through the Perils of the Lost Coast a few times. First as a two character group a few times to get the feel for the game. We never lost during these attempts but the first few were kind of broken since we were unclear on a few rules.
The last time we played we played a 6 character game (3 each) to see how it went. This was significantly harder. The first time we ran out of blessings, mainly because we were used to the 2 character version being able to use more blessings for bonuses versus exploration. The second time we focused more and won, but barely. We still won on the last blessing and it was lucky that the villian was drawn out of 6 cards.
We have not had any deaths yet because I have been using the old RPG concept. Always have a healer. I have always used Kyra, though I do want to say if you focus on her healing 100% then the exploration can suffer. I would recommend in a large group that you at least have two of the following characters, Kyra, Lem, or Lini (in the 6 character we have all 3.
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
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My group has played the first five scenarios (all of the Lost Coast ones and the first two of Burnt Offerings) with a 100% win ratio so far. I'm actually kind of surprised, and we've been checking the boards mercilessly to make sure we've done everything right. There have been some very close calls (ended one scenario literally on the last blessings card), but no losses so far.
This is actually what we hope to hear. We want good players to win most of the time—or even all of the time—but often at the last possible moment. That said, I expect beginners to lose more than experts, because your skill in managing resources come in to play. The game designers almost *never* lose, because they have a deep understanding of the resource management needed here, but some of our playtest groups lost as much as half the time.
GFWD |
I have lost three times:
Once with Merisiel and Amiri. The blessing deck ran out, but I had gotten greedy and left locations open after defeating henchmen to try and get more stuff.
Valeros and Seoni have failed once on the final scenario of Burnt Offerings to the blessing deck running out after I stopped exploring because Seoni was low on cards.
Lem in Bringadoom (I am soloing Lem with custom (read offensive) card selection, not what is suggested in the book) because I wasn't thinking enough while playing because I had previously walked through this one.
Lem is definitely the most difficult to play of all my combos, but is a lot of fun because I have to think a lot more, and end up moving around a lot and having to make some key decisions.
Mike6976 |
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I have been playing a campaign with my wife and son perils was a good intro to the game we did well on it couple of restarts due to blessings deck but no deaths.
Burnt offerings how ever has been a slow process bunch of timer issues especially with local heroes and almost complete party wipe one night had to just chill and let timer run out the last few turns. But its all been worth it cause we get together and discuss strategies after and not in 16 yrs of marriage did i ever think my wife would be arguing the benefits of being a barbarian over a wizard.
Great job all
Sir Barnick |
So far I have never lost (knocks on wood).
I have soloed the Brigandoom several times each with Lem and Sajan and it was never even close except once for Lem after a crushing defeat... he only had 2 cards left to draw.
My group (usually 4 players) has come close to losing twice (1 blessing left in one scenario and the next scenario had 2 blessings left). We've never had a death although we've had a couple of close calls (my Ranger had to go hide at a closed location and just assist fights from range... he had no cards left to draw (when his hand was reset) so couldn't risk a discard.
Its a lot of fun.
Ron Lundeen Contributor |