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Excuse me if this has been discussed else where but....
Is anyone else afraid pathfinder is becoming a mmorpg.
Ugh... taunts
So what I would like to know is
1.) do you like these spells and what they offer
2.) where there previously any "taunt like" spells or abilities?
3.) as a DM or player have you experienced a player using them and how did they affect your game.
Thanks for posting.
I have no experience with them directly, and as far as I know there wasn't any abilities or spells like this in 3.5e before (unless there was a third party thing I'm not aware of).
My personal opinion is that as long as it doesn't force a target to do something (except in the case of a compulsion mind affecting effect), then it's fine.
Distraction penalties for not focusing on you? Sure.
Compulsion effects through magic? Why not?
But "force target to attack you because you yelled at them"? Not sure if I'd like that...
I'll agree Mcarvin, I don't like taunts either. However, I think Pathfinder's feel is far from that of an MMORPG. Dungeons and Dragons took that route, where marking enemies is the norm.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong because I don't yet own the Advanced Player's Guide, but the Cavalier's ability penalizes his AC for focusing so intently upon his chosen opponent while giving him attack bonuses against that opponent. It doesn't effect the the opponent at all; except of course having a focused cavalier on its tail.
The two spells in the title do things to the target. One gives nausea, the other "forces" the target to do certain actions.
Considering there's spells like Charm Person and Dominate Person in the game, I don't have a problem with spells that do this, simply because it's used to make them focus on a single target (like the application of Taunts in MMOs).
I do have a problem with how taunts work in MMOs (simple "yelling" causing a compulsory action on the target). I think the GM running the game allows for creatures to react in a more "real world" manner, that this kind of thing shouldn't be necessary.
But magical abilities that cause compulsion effects, or being granted bonuses for focusing on a target, these things I don't have a problem with.
I even don't have a problem with someone yelling at someone else in an effort to distract them from what they are doing (very realistc).
It's the "compulsion effect" from non-magical talking that smacks of MMO that I am glad has so far been avoided.
A taunt feat appeared in 3.5 since miniature handbook - it was named "goad". Will save versus Charisma to not attack the "yeller". The "yell" was a move action.
Actually, I liked it. Reprinted in Complete Adventurer.
In PH2 there was the Knight, able to"taunt" as an area effect.
A player of mine had it and sounded quite heroic - she RPed it quite well, a provocation, a challenge of a relentless Knight seeking for glory.
The Cavalier Challenge in APG is nothing like this. Is far more similar to the Paladin's Smite Evil.
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Well, the Order of the Shield Cavalier's Challenge is somewhat tankish.
I'm quite happy with the changes in the APG. Now it's possible to create a character that is capable of protecting others. All those people that made characters whose only ability was a high AC and called them tanks or defenders were rather annoying.
I'd wish those spells were harder to resist, though. Will negates and spell resistance rather limit their use for a paladin, considering those spells will mostly be used against strong opponents to prevent them from hurting your allies.
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In 2nd edition Dragonlance, the miniscule foul-mouthed kender could force enemies to charge at them with some clever taunting that enraged targets to the point of wanting to kill the little bastards. The APG "Taunt" feat is similar to the dumb-down that 3rd edition gave to kender. It appears to attempt to recreate the penalties associated with being unbalanced by berating, but as a "fear" effect (shaken), it needs some tweaking.
But thus far, the APG looks good in avoiding the "attack me because I bellow loudly" motif from video games by going with the character you can't or shouldn't brush off because of the penalties you'll be suffering, whether it be distraction or because the cavalier is all over you like stink on a monkey.
Generally, if my players want attention from an enemy, they earn it (by words or deed) rather than relying solely on a game mechanic. With some roleplay included, I like the addition of the Cavalier challenge or Barbarian bellow; I can buy that when the massive barbarian wants your attention, he'll get it (though you can attack others, you can't ignore the look he keeps giving you over the battlefield as he hacks his way to you...)