i was looking at a summoner and got a few ideas in my head... i was wanting to make a bipedal eidolon with 4 arms and attack with two falchions. first feat would be mwp(falchion) next power attack. and then twf after i raised my dex enough. how would the damage be ruled since i will have 2 hands on each weapon? and with the power attacking? -1 for +3?
I dont think u need twf for your eidolon, but im not sure.
i was looking at a summoner and got a few ideas in my head... i was wanting to make a bipedal eidolon with 4 arms and attack with two falchions. first feat would be mwp(falchion) next power attack. and then twf after i raised my dex enough. how would the damage be ruled since i will have 2 hands on each weapon? and with the power attacking? -1 for +3?
I dont think u need twf for your eidolon, but im not sure.
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It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.
So, 1. -6 with one falchion and -10 with the other. Multiweapon Fighting reduces this to -4/-4.
2. 1.5 x Power Attack bonus with one falchion, 3/4 x Power Attack bonus with the other.
2. 1.5 x STR bonus with one falchion, 3/4 x STR bonus with the other. Double Slice gives you your full (x 1) STR bonus to the second falchion.
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why would it only be -6 and -10. i have two weapon fighting and i am a pfs character so that feat is illegal. i agree with the damage on all accounts.
Two weapon fighting is for creatures with two arms. Multiweapon fighting is for creatures with more than two arms. Four arms is more than two arms. You'd therefor need Multiweapon Fighting.
Also, the fact that the feat is illegal in Organized Play is not relevant to the fact the Two Weapon Fighting isn't the appropriate feat to use here.
You'd be better off doing the following :
Biped, Extra Arms, Claws (on extra arms).
Improved Natural Attack (Claw)
Then just call the claws 'Swords' and describe the claws as swords.
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It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.So, 1. -6 with one falchion and -10 with the other. Multiweapon Fighting reduces this to -4/-4.
2. 1.5 x Power Attack bonus with one falchion, 3/4 x Power Attack bonus with the other.
2. 1.5 x STR bonus with one falchion, 3/4 x STR bonus with the other. Double Slice gives you your full (x 1) STR bonus to the second falchion.
Starglim is right - you need multiweapon fighting which replaces two weapon fighting for a creature with more than 2 arms
2) it would be +3 damage for primary Falchion & I would rule that the second falchion would be at +2 - power attack adds +50% for 2 hand weapon but -50% for off hand would rule each other out.
3) Str bonus since the weapon is 2 handed I would rule it is 1.5x str bonus - I know offhanded attacks are at 1/2 str if using 1 handed weapons but I would rule against this in this case
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why would it only be -6 and -10. i have two weapon fighting and i am a pfs character so that feat is illegal. i agree with the damage on all accounts.
Fair enough. Two-Weapon Fighting only reduces TWF penalties for your primary hand and one off-hand. You're wielding the first falchion with your primary hand, so that's taken care of, but you can't remove the penalties for both off-hands holding the second falchion, so regardless of which off-hand you pick to benefit from the feat, total penalties are -4/-10.
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By that logic, do you need to pay two weapon fighting penalties to use a weapon in two hands, because both hands are on the weapon?why would it only be -6 and -10. i have two weapon fighting and i am a pfs character so that feat is illegal. i agree with the damage on all accounts.Fair enough. Two-Weapon Fighting only reduces TWF penalties for your primary hand and one off-hand. You're wielding the first falchion with your primary hand, so that's taken care of, but you can't remove the penalties for both off-hands holding the second falchion, so regardless of which off-hand you pick to benefit from the feat, total penalties are -4/-10.
If a normal human wielding a two-handed weapon has some attack penalty to one of his hands (for example, if he wears a buckler) the penalty applies to the weapon in total. If he had different penalties to each of his hands, perhaps they would stack or perhaps the GM would apply the highest penalty.
The same applies here. The eidolon has a penalty with the second falchion for wielding it in its off-hand. What is that penalty? One of the off-hands involved might, at best, have a penalty of -4 and the other has a penalty of -10. The penalties are from the same source, so they don't stack. Only the highest penalty applies.
For example 4 arms.
WITH Multiweapon Fighting:
1. Falchion
2. Falchion (One Handed Weapon)
3. Falchion
4. Falchion
-4/-4/-4/-4
____________________
1. Falchion
2. Light Weapon
3. Light Weapon
4. Light Weapon
-2/-2/-2/-2
____________________
1. Light Weapon
2. Light Weapon
3. Light Weapon
4. Light Weapon
-2/-2/-2/-2
Its just like Two Weapon Fighting with more offhands, but the same penalties
WITHOUT Multiweapon Fighting:
1. Falchion
2. Falchion (One Handed Weapon)
3. Falchion
4. Falchion
-6/-10/-10/-10
____________________
1. Falchion
2. Light Weapon
3. Light Weapon
4. Light Weapon
-4/-8/-8/-8
____________________
1. Light Weapon
2. Light Weapon
3. Light Weapon
4. Light Weapon
-4/-8/-8/-8
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Well now you are running the same argument in two threads. Nice. So I'll post over here as well-
Using 4 limbs in a coordinated fashion to wield weapons falls under the Multiweapon Fighting feat. Having two limbs on each weapon in order to gain extra damage exceeds the capabilities of a two armed creature and the TWF feat.
The TWF feat would only help you here if you were fighting while only using two limbs. Maybe the other two limbs keep a wand or some other alternate action at the ready so you can switch without having to draw. If all four hands are touch the handle of a weapon, Multiweapon Fighting is the Feat that applies.
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Another way TWF could work for you is having two arms wield a reach weapon and the other two wield melee weapons without reach. They don't work in concert, but if something gets inside the reach of say your longspear, you can attack with your rapier + dagger or whatever on the following turn without having to drop anything or draw anything.
You effectively have to choose which 2 limbs are fighting each turn if you want to go with TWF.
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Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)
This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.
Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.
Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.
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Just because you cannot access them legally with your PFS character does not make them irrelevant. Monsters you face in PFS will have these Bestiary feats. They most definitely exist and are legal, but have been denied to PCs.
These are the rules that govern using four limbs to fight with weapons. Other monster feats like Improved Natural Armor and Improved Natural Attack were built in as evolution options. Multiweapon attack was deliberately omitted.
TWF is written for creatures with two limbs. Ask yourself this?
Can a creature with two limbs do this?
If Yes ---> TWF applies
If More limbs are required ---> Multiweapon Attack is required
Using two weapons with four arms to gain extra damage clearly is beyond the scope of TWF. At a home game you could house rule it. For PFS you should be prepared for the fact that some DMs are not going to catch this and others will. When they do, they will deny you this tactic.
there is nothing in the RAW that says two weapon fighting doesnt allow you to use two hands for weapons. now unless a pathfinder creator makes a ruling on this, which i was hoping for, it is up to the dm as you said. but IMO, twf would work because multiweapon fighting is for more than two weapon fighting where as twf is for two weapons. you obviously disagree and thats fine.
Huh... if you were going to resort to silliness when you didn't get the answer you wanted, why even bother to ask the question?
Does this mean that I can speak entire coherent sentences while underwater without expending any breath and without magical aid? After all, it doesn't say that I can't talk while holding my breath, does it? And it doesn't say that I can't talk properly underwater, does it?
Just because the rules don't cover every situation doesn't mean anything goes in the grey areas. There's a feat that covers use of weapons when you have more than two arms. Two weapon fighting means one separate weapon in each hand, up to two hands. Everything else is covered by multi-weapon fighting.
be a race that has water breathing and maybe. no need to be demeaning. i read multiweapon fighting as attacking with more than two weapons and two weapon fighting in reference to two weapons. just because i have more arms shouldnt mean that i cant two weapon fght with my feat.
Except that multiweapon fighting specifies: "This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms." The fact that you are not allowed to take Multiweapon fighting does not change the fact that it is designed to take the place of Multiweapon and you cannot use multiple limbs properly in combat without it.
If I want to invoke the RAW, humans, halflings, dwarves and everything else are able to talk perfectly without using any breath, regardless of the medium they're in, be it water or vacuum.
I'm sorry if you found my example demeaning, but how do you think the people who took the effort to explain everything to you feel when you dismiss them with "That's your opinion?"
My point is that having something not explicitly in the RAW doesn't mean you can do what you want. If you have multiple limbs and want to fight with two weapons, you can still use your two weapon fighting feat. But the moment you are using more than two limbs you have to use multiweapon fighting.
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Hulk, you're missing the point. Two Weapon Fighting does not do what you want it to. The feat that does do what you want to is not legal for Society play. Your idea therefore cannot be done. You can't use a feat that doesn't do what you want it to just because the one that does isn't available for your game.
We have explained this many times. I am done doing so. Maybe someone will give you the answer you seem to be looking for because they don't know the rules as well as everyone who has responded to this thread. Maybe it will happen. It won't make it legal but it'll be someone's incorrect analysis that you can take to your GM and play the game with wrong rules.
Or you could do like MDT said and use claws and describe them as swords so that you can play with correct rules and keep your concept.
I'm done...
If you have multiple limbs and want to fight with two weapons, you can still use your two weapon fighting feat. But the moment you are using more than two limbs you have to use multiweapon fighting.
More specifically, you can have more than two libs and use only two limbs for fighting and use TWF. Using anymore than two limbs requires the use of Multiweapon Fighting.
If you have multiple limbs and want to fight with two weapons, you can still use your two weapon fighting feat. But the moment you are using more than two limbs you have to use multiweapon fighting.More specifically, you can have more than two libs and use only two limbs for fighting and use TWF. Using anymore than two limbs requires the use of Multiweapon Fighting.
Yes, that's what I was trying to get at. Thanks for making that clearer YuenglingDragon.