|
I'm playing a Zen Archer in a new RotRL campaign. Here's what I need:
Zen Archer
MUST be dwarf (personal preference).
20 point buy.
Average starting gold for monk.
DM allows Heirloom Weapon.
Worships Gorum, from Druma.
I would prefer to be some what of a glass cannon if possible, as the only other ranged class in the party is the wizard.
Party:
Cleric (Casting focused)
Paladin (sword and board)
Rogue (Melee)
Fighter (2-handed)
Wizard
Any help on stats, traits, and feats for future levels would be great. Thanks.
|
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12 (10+2)
Int 7
Wis 19 (17+2)
Cha 7 (9-2)
I think the math is right up there. You're going to suck until 3 when you can finally use your Wisdom instead of Dex. Every point of level bonuses are probably best spent on Wisdom. Headband of Wisdom and Belt of Str for a better Composite Bow.
Heirloom Weapon is a good Trait choice. A bonus to a skill you'll like to use or to Initiative for the second.
Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
1b Perfect Strike
1b Precise Shot
2b Weapon Focus (Longbow)
2b Rapid Shot
3 Deadly Aim
3b Pointblank Master
5 Extra Ki
6b Weapon Specialization (Longbow)
6b Manyshot
7
9
10b Improved Precise Shot
11 Improved Critical
I don't have any thoughts on the level 7 or 9 feats. The Zen Archer has a somewhat unique problem of not being able to qualify for almost any of the feats that it uses for combat. Only the two weapon fighting Ranger style has that kind of issue. But you are going to shell out a but load of damage. More instances of Extra Ki would allow you to do even more damage and shoot around corners and whatnot.
Spider step for 7th, and toughness for 9th and I would call it good.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Spider step for 7th, and toughness for 9th and I would call it good.
Good call on Spider Step. I don't know about Toughness, though. I'm not sure a few extra HP is worth being able to upgrade your damage, shoot more, dodge more, or shoot around a corner or into total concealment or total cover.
When you get to level 9, Xen, decide if you need 9 more HP or 2 more ki points. Saying you're ok being a glass cannon is easy but being one can be hard. You may really want those HP.
Also, forgot to mention the great deal that is Monk's Robes. Better AC and better arrow damage when you use Ki Arrows is pretty slick. I also just read that you can't use Manyshot or Rapid Shot with your Flurry. Bad news bears. That means feats look more like this:
1 Point Blank Shot
1b Perfect Strike
1b Precise Shot
2b Weapon Focus (Longbow)
2b Dodge or Combat Reflexes
3 Deadly Aim
3b Pointblank Master
5 Extra Ki
6b Weapon Specialization (Longbow)
6b Improved Precise Shot
7 Spider Step
9 Toughness or Extra Ki
10b Improved Critical
|
|
That's Pretty much what I was figuring for feats. I think I'm gonna go for Combat Reflexes at 2 and maybe Stunning Fist at 5 if people get in on me. Played tonight so I went with these stats.
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 10
Int 10
Wis 17
Cha 8
I went with the 10 because I wanted 4 skills (Climb, Craft: Bow, Perception, Stealth). Now that I think about it, I might go for Master Craftsman at 5th if no one goes for any creation feats. Thanks for the advice guys!
|
|
Assuming min-maxing doesn't bother you:
Str: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 20
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Chr: 5
Traits: dwarven perception-as-skill, +2 init
Skills: acrobatics, perception, sense motive
Try to convince a fellow party member with high Percep to take Lookout with you about 5th level; full round during surprise is money :).
Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
1b Perfect Strike
1b Precise Shot
2b Weapon Focus (Longbow)
2b Rapid Shot
3 Deadly Aim
3b Pointblank Master
5 Extra Ki
6b Weapon Specialization (Longbow)
6b Manyshot
7
9
10b Improved Precise Shot
11 Improved Critical
So glad I found this thread, because I have a problem. I'm also playing a dwarf Zen Archer monk who just reached second level. Here's the problem:
Unless I'm missing something, Rapid Shot and Manyshot (two of the best feats for any archer class) are redundant with the Zen Archer's Flurry of Blows ("A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow." - PFAPG):
*Flurry of Blows* is a full-round attack that adds an extra attack at -1/-1 (from BAB at 2nd level.) Its attack bonus improves faster than the monk's standard attack (equals at lvl 5, surpasses at lvl 9), and is therefore the bread-and-butter of any monk class.
*Rapid Shot* is also a full-round attack that gives an extra attack, but at -2/-2. So, totally out of the question for Zen Archer.
*Manyshot* is another full-round attack, which is effectively the same as Flurry of Blows (at 2nd level anyway), only without as many targeting options. Again, out of the question for Zen Archer.
It seems like a mistake to say "A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow." If the feats stacked with the ability, it would make sense to burn a feat, but as it is I don't see any reason to burn a feat for an attack that is always going to be worse than my innate attack.
That said, if they stacked, I think the Zen Archer class could easily overpower the game (3 attacks at 2nd level). Without Rapid Shot and Manyshot, the Zen Archer bonus feat selection is seriously limited.
Am I missing something? Is there an errata on this? Is there some use for these two feats that I'm not seeing?
Oh, and if anyone cares, here is our campaign: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/fallen-star
Thanks!
Hi, and thanks for your reply. Here's my issue:
1. Why would I (or you, or anyone) want to burn 2 feats to get a worse attack than one already granted by an innate ability? For that matter, how does Rapid/Many beats Flurry? Example:
At 6th level, if I took Manyshot as my bonus feat (after taking Rapid at 2nd), I would get a double attack at one target (manyshot), plus another attack (rapid shot) at a chosen target. Both rolls are at +2 (+4 BAB, -2 penalty per Rapid Shot). Sure one attack is double damage if it hits, but my chance to hit is decreased by 10%.
If instead I use Flurry, I get 3 attacks at target(s) of my choice, at +4, +4, +1. As I see it, compared to the archery feats, that's two attacks with standard chance of success, plus another attack with -15% chance to hit. As I progress in level, this difference is even greater, where Flurry gives me more attacks at a better bonus. How/when/where is Rapid/Many better than Flurry?
2. In terms of flavor, it's lame to nerf archery-based feats in an archery-based class? (I get it mechanically (e.g. overpowering), but not flavor-wise.
3. With these above two points in mind, the Zen Archer class could be improved by either a) offering a more usable selection of bonus feats, b) replacing Rapid/Many with special Zen Archer feats, or c) allowing Rapid Shot and Manyshot in a Flurry of Blows, but requiring higher prerequisites to use them.
My question remains: [i]Why would anyone choose these?[/] If my understanding of the rules is wrong here, please correct me with specific examples. The way I see it, Rapid/Many is not even in the same league as a bow Flurry. As it stands, I will definitely take other bonus feats.
+1 @Rubia
Huzzah for the Zen Archer Monk. Because ZAMs have such an awesome class ability, they render two feats practically useless. Why complain? Just spend your feats on things you might have otherwise skipped, like improving your HP, Initiative, Saves, or maybe try some other feat chain. (I find Combat Patrol to be absolutely silly as the Zen Archer Monk. Yes, you can only attack enemies you threaten, but you can improve that with Enlarge Person and other stuff. Also note that they don't have to be within your reach when you attack, you just have to be threatening them.)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
<Sigh> ok, I'll stop complaining about the two useless feats. I guess it really does only narrow my choices by one per bonus feat. Truly Zen Archer is a great class. I'll stick with Dodge for 2nd, and at 6th (if I survive that long in my GM's hostile world) I'll take Improved Precise Shot (or maybe Mobility). Thanks all for the feedback!
My question remains: Why would anyone choose these? If my understanding of the rules is wrong here, please correct me with specific examples. The way I see it, Rapid/Many is not even in the same league as a bow Flurry. As it stands, I will definitely take other bonus feats.Answer: You won't choose them. However, there are plenty of feat choices in that list aside from Rapid/Many. So avoid those bad choices. There are many other good bonus feats. The Zen Archer is quite good as is; I would hardly think that any adjustment is required.
There may be some weird ideas where you'd want to use Rapid/Many if you're using non-bow ranged attacks, because in those cases you cannot flurry. But that's totally marginal. Stick with the answer I gave above.
Rubia
Multiclassing. If you do not stick with single class monk past 8th and 15th level, you find these feats nice.
If you don't mind multiclassing, if I might suggest, one level of sorcerer or wizard? Now, you'll have to either adjust your Charisma/Intelligence to at least 11, or play another race.
Before everyone screams, for his type of build, there's a good advantage in this. You only want access to 1st level spells anyway, and Mage Armor and Shield can be HIGHLY useful, especially at low levels. Sorcerer has the advantage that you can take a bloodline like Stormborn and add Shocking to your weapon several times a day (Now, imagine that flurry at 2nd level combined with shocking on the bow for free). Wizard has the advantage that at higher levels, you can switch out what spells you want to memorize, and you can make your bow your bonded weapon.
You may also consider cleric as a multi-class, as I am currently crunching the numbers for a zen archer monk reaching at least 3rd level, and the remaining levels would be devoted to the cleric. You can gain access to some domains that would complement the monk, like travel, liberation, etc.
If you don't mind multiclassing, if I might suggest, one level of sorcerer or wizard?It's not worth it.
We can agree to disagree then. I've been toying with it a bit, and while my build was designed for a 50/50 split between sorcerer/monk, it seems to be working out as rather effective. I'm still playing with the builds at this point, so I'm not sure exactly how far I want to take it. I'm also working on whether or not to hit Arcane Archer or not with the build. It qualifies at 9th level if I go Sorcerer 1/Monk 8, although it's delayed to 10th going Sorcerer 4/Monk 6. Adding in a monk's robe to boost damage, and then getting increased spell caster levels from the arcane archer class... It's looking interesting.
I think 1 level of Wizard MIGHT be worth it. If your GM lets it count for .5 BAB instead of 0 BAB, it helps a lot. Become a Divination Specialist with the Foresight Subdomain. Might be helpful.
Check out my post here if you want to see some more multiclassing options. (Somewhere after levels 9-12 is where I would multiclass out of ZAM)
I think 1 level of Wizard MIGHT be worth it. If your GM lets it count for .5 BAB instead of 0 BAB, it helps a lot. Become a Divination Specialist with the Foresight Subdomain. Might be helpful.
Check out my post here if you want to see some more multiclassing options. (Somewhere after levels 9-12 is where I would multiclass out of ZAM)
Fixed that for you.
I think 1 level of Wizard MIGHT be worth it. If your GM lets it count for .5 BAB instead of 0 BAB, it helps a lot. Become a Divination Specialist with the Foresight Subdomain. Might be helpful.
Check out my post here if you want to see some more multiclassing options. (Somewhere after levels 9-12 is where I would multiclass out of ZAM)
Fixed that for you.
Thanks, just fixed it in mine too. ^^;
If you don't mind multiclassing, if I might suggest, one level of sorcerer or wizard?
I have been thinking about this on my next level of my dwarven zen archer monk. I've bought a few potions of enlarge person and bought large sized arrows that I put in my efficient quiver in the javelin section to use when enlarged so the arrows don't shrink back down. Having a level of sorcerer could give me a few enlarge persons/mage armors.
I don't see it as being worthwhile, perhaps you can show me. Now thematically it might be fun, etc. I'm just looking mechanically here.
Sorry James, but these types of things just end up making a long thread where people get upset. The problem is, nobody can agree on what is mechanically best. Some people insist on DPR only. Other's look at overall character usefulness. Other's want thematic consistency.
It sounds like you are a DPR only guy. If that's the case, nothing short of a THF will be mechanically effective for you.
Personally, I prefer a character that can be effective in multiple areas, have flexibility, and are thematically interesting. The problem is, if you are strictly looking at it from a DPR standpoint, a flexible character will never be considered 'mechanically worthwhile', which means this is just an exercise in futility to get into an argument about it.
Hi, and thanks for your reply. Here's my issue:
1. Why would I (or you, or anyone) want to burn 2 feats to get a worse attack than one already granted by an innate ability? For that matter, how does Rapid/Many beats Flurry? Example:
At 6th level, if I took Manyshot as my bonus feat (after taking Rapid at 2nd), I would get a double attack at one target (manyshot), plus another attack (rapid shot) at a chosen target. Both rolls are at +2 (+4 BAB, -2 penalty per Rapid Shot). Sure one attack is double damage if it hits, but my chance to hit is decreased by 10%.
If instead I use Flurry, I get 3 attacks at target(s) of my choice, at +4, +4, +1. As I see it, compared to the archery feats, that's two attacks with standard chance of success, plus another attack with -15% chance to hit. As I progress in level, this difference is even greater, where Flurry gives me more attacks at a better bonus. How/when/where is Rapid/Many better than Flurry?
2. In terms of flavor, it's lame to nerf archery-based feats in an archery-based class? (I get it mechanically (e.g. overpowering), but not flavor-wise.
3. With these above two points in mind, the Zen Archer class could be improved by either a) offering a more usable selection of bonus feats, b) replacing Rapid/Many with special Zen Archer feats, or c) allowing Rapid Shot and Manyshot in a Flurry of Blows, but requiring higher prerequisites to use them.
My question remains: [i]Why would anyone choose these?[/] If my understanding of the rules is wrong here, please correct me with specific examples. The way I see it, Rapid/Many is not even in the same league as a bow Flurry. As it stands, I will definitely take other bonus feats.
If you are playing a straight monk you should skip rapid/manyshot, if you want to qualify for rapid shot and many shot with 13 dex wearing full plate as a fighter/monk they become great bonus feats
We can agree to disagree then.We will indeed disagree.
At character levels 6, 8, 11, 15 and 16 you lose an attack.
At all levels you have a -1 to hit.
You delay when you get all the archery zen archer monk abilities.
And this is before you sacrifice stats for it.
All of this so you can do what? Cast your own 1hr mage armor? Buy a pearl of power and get the wizard with you to cast it. So you can spend a standard action to get a +4 shield bonus for 1 minute? You've likely hit your CON & DEX to do this, while a spell storing item (cracked ioun stone) can reasonably do this for you.
I don't see it as being worthwhile, perhaps you can show me. Now thematically it might be fun, etc. I'm just looking mechanically here.
-James
While I agree that starting with Sorcerer/Wizard levels is a mistake, I think adding 1 level after level 12 (my favorite stopping point) is a justifiable if not optimal move. The powers of a Divination Specialist, with the Foresight Subdomain is something any character would love to have in their arsenal. Not to mention the ability to cast a few spells. (Mage Armor, Enlarge Person, etc) The bonded object is especially nice, since you don't care a lot if it's stolen or destroyed, but if you have a spellbook with a bunch of first level spells, you can choose the one you need and use it when its handy.
You could try ZAM 9/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 10 if you're an Elf or Half-Elf, but I'm not too much a fan of it. Still, it's works and is thematically kind of cool as a "mystical archer".
Side note: If you want to dabble in the Arcane, I suggest picking up the Magical Knack trait, which adds 2 levels to your spellcaster level. (As long as your spellcaster level doesn't exceed your HD; which it doesn't.) So either plan ahead, or get Additional Traits. Mage Armor lasting 3 hours instead of 1 hour or Enlarge Person lasting 3 minutes instead of 1 minute can matter.
However... Since you're never going to be an amazing caster, and the Arcane Archer abilities don't mesh very well with yours, I suggest just the 1 level and moving on to other options as I detailed in my multiclass suggestions.
This is from a DPR perspective, since the wizard dip can actually help your overall DPR. *is a dirty min/max-er*
I don't see it as being worthwhile, perhaps you can show me. Now thematically it might be fun, etc. I'm just looking mechanically here.
Sorry James, but these types of things just end up making a long thread where people get upset. The problem is, nobody can agree on what is mechanically best. Some people insist on DPR only. Other's look at overall character usefulness. Other's want thematic consistency.
It sounds like you are a DPR only guy. If that's the case, nothing short of a THF will be mechanically effective for you.
Personally, I prefer a character that can be effective in multiple areas, have flexibility, and are thematically interesting. The problem is, if you are strictly looking at it from a DPR standpoint, a flexible character will never be considered 'mechanically worthwhile', which means this is just an exercise in futility to get into an argument about it.
From my min/max-y standpoint I'll go ahead and argue that you can't be effective in multiple areas; at least you can't expect to be as effective as your Sorcerer 10 friend in terms of spellcasting nor your ZAM 10 friend in terms of damage output when you're a Sorc 4/ZAM 6. Pathfinder is such that multiclassing is generally very suboptimal. The monk is somewhat of an exception, since he gets most of his best abilities early on (first 8 to 12 levels) and his capstone abilities aren't very impressive. So after you become an effective monk, look into other classes that have abilities that mesh with yours and your stats. (Which, sadly Wizard and Sorc don't combine very well, since a Monk's most important stats are Str, Dex, Con, and Wis. That's why I only suggest the 1st level dip)
But, if you're one of those crazy people who actually plays the game "for fun," do whatever the hell you want. xP I have a friend like that and it rubs me the wrong way sometimes, but it doesn't stop him from being effective in ways I didn't think were possible.
From my min/max-y standpoint I'll go ahead and argue that you can't be effective in multiple areas; at least you can't expect to be as effective as your Sorcerer 10 friend in terms of spellcasting nor your ZAM 10 friend in terms of damage output when you're a Sorc 4/ZAM 6. Pathfinder is such that multiclassing is generally very suboptimal. The monk is somewhat of an exception, since he gets most of his best abilities early on (first 8 to 12 levels) and his capstone abilities aren't very impressive. So after you become an effective monk, look into other classes that have abilities that mesh with yours and your stats. (Which, sadly Wizard and Sorc don't combine very well, since a Monk's most important stats are Str, Dex, Con, and Wis. That's why I only suggest the 1st level dip)
But, if you're one of those crazy people who actually plays the game "for fun," do whatever the hell you want. xP I have a friend like that and it rubs me the wrong way sometimes, but it doesn't stop him from being effective in ways I didn't think were possible.
One of the reasons I like the ZAM is that it really cuts down severely on the MAD. You can forgo STR, since by the time you need major str bonuses on the damage, you can afford a belt to handle it, and get a compound bow. You need for a ZAM (IMHO) just Wisdom and Dex (for AC) and even the dex for AC can be lower. That leaves you with just one main stat and a secondary stat you really need.
Honestly, the best mechanical multiclass with a ZAM would be a Druid or Cleric. Another possibility would be a Bone Oracle, as they can boost their own defenses via mystery.
For Druid, a Plains Druid has the synergy of adding +10 movement as well, keeping the movement up. They can self buff (including boosting wisdom and Strength). The wildeshape isn't all that useful, honestly, but they can also take a Domain instead of an animal companion. Having obscuring mist to pop up and hide in while flurrying at range would be very nice. The plant special ability could add some damage if someone get's close enough to attack you. The biggest problem of multiclassing with Druid or Cleric is they don't get a lot of defensive spells (other than Barkskin).
From my min/max-y standpoint I'll go ahead and argue that you can't be effective in multiple areas; at least you can't expect to be as effective as your Sorcerer 10 friend in terms of spellcasting nor your ZAM 10 friend in terms of damage output when you're a Sorc 4/ZAM 6. Pathfinder is such that multiclassing is generally very suboptimal. The monk is somewhat of an exception, since he gets most of his best abilities early on (first 8 to 12 levels) and his capstone abilities aren't very impressive. So after you become an effective monk, look into other classes that have abilities that mesh with yours and your stats. (Which, sadly Wizard and Sorc don't combine very well, since a Monk's most important stats are Str, Dex, Con, and Wis. That's why I only suggest the 1st level dip)
But, if you're one of those crazy people who actually plays the game "for fun," do whatever the hell you want. xP I have a friend like that and it rubs me the wrong way sometimes, but it doesn't stop him from being effective in ways I didn't think were possible.
One of the reasons I like the ZAM is that it really cuts down severely on the MAD. You can forgo STR, since by the time you need major str bonuses on the damage, you can afford a belt to handle it, and get a compound bow. You need for a ZAM (IMHO) just Wisdom and Dex (for AC) and even the dex for AC can be lower. That leaves you with just one main stat and a secondary stat you really need.
Honestly, the best mechanical multiclass with a ZAM would be a Druid or Cleric. Another possibility would be a Bone Oracle, as they can boost their own defenses via mystery.
For Druid, a Plains Druid has the synergy of adding +10 movement as well, keeping the movement up. They can self buff (including boosting wisdom and Strength). The wildeshape isn't all that useful, honestly, but they can also take a Domain instead of an animal companion. Having obscuring mist to pop up and hide in while flurrying at range would be very nice. The plant special...
There's also an ability of the Oracle (Lore, at least) which allows you to use your Cha in place of Dex for determining AC and Reflex saves. (I think CMD too, but perhaps not RAW) So a 1 level dip in Oracle, might be nice. ...and then follow it up with a 2 level dip of Paladin? Combine your awesome monk saves with Wis, Cha (replacing dex), and Con as your most important stats, and also adding Cha to all of your saves... Well, you get really good saves. xP
But no Enlarge Person or Mage Armor on your spell list. D:
Enlarge Person is utterly useless for a ZAM. Let us review:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enlarge-person :
Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage.
So, only things ZAM gets from Enlarge are -1 To hit and -1 AC :P
Instead, consider Gravity Bow :
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gravity-bow
Any arrow fired from a bow or crossbow you are carrying when the spell is cast deals damage as if one size larger than it actually is.
And if you really wanted to be goofy, you'd also go with Reduce Person for +1 To hit, +1 AC, +2 Dex :)
Enlarge Person is utterly useless for a ZAM. Let us review:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enlarge-person :
Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage.
So, only things ZAM gets from Enlarge are -1 To hit and -1 AC :P
Instead, consider Gravity Bow :
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gravity-bow
Any arrow fired from a bow or crossbow you are carrying when the spell is cast deals damage as if one size larger than it actually is.
And if you really wanted to be goofy, you'd also go with Reduce Person for +1 To hit, +1 AC, +2 Dex :)
It's not useless to the ZAM if you use Combat Patrol. The extra reach is AMAZING. ^^
EDIT: But yes, Gravity Bow is a really nice buff for archers.
It's not useless to the ZAM if you use Combat Patrol. The extra reach is AMAZING. ^^
EDIT: But yes, Gravity Bow is a really nice buff for archers.
I hope you won't be terribly offended if I guffaw at the idea of a Zen Archer Monk - strictly ranged build - investing 4 Feats (Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, Combat Patrol) into giving himself 5' of extra melee threat reach? I'd be delighted to hear your reasoning behind that kind of archer build :D
I hope you won't be terribly offended if I guffaw at the idea of a Zen Archer Monk - strictly ranged build - investing 4 Feats (Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, Combat Patrol) into giving himself 5' of extra melee threat reach? I'd be delighted to hear your reasoning behind that kind of archer build :DIt's not useless to the ZAM if you use Combat Patrol. The extra reach is AMAZING. ^^
EDIT: But yes, Gravity Bow is a really nice buff for archers.
There was an entire thread on how this would work, and it does. At 9th level, the Zen Archer Monk can make AoO's with his bow. ...so Combat patrol works with a bow. So long as they're within your threatened area, you can make AoO's.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you may set up a combat patrol, increasing your threatened area by 5 feet for every 5 points of your base attack bonus. Until the beginning of your next turn, you may make attacks of opportunity against any opponent in this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks, provided your total movement before your next turn does not exceed your speed. Any movement you make provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
There was an entire thread on how this would work, and it does. At 9th level, the Zen Archer Monk can make AoO's with his bow. ...so Combat patrol works with a bow. So long as they're within your threatened area, you can make AoO's.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you may set up a combat patrol, increasing your threatened area by 5 feet for every 5 points of your base attack bonus. Until the beginning of your next turn, you may make attacks of opportunity against any opponent in this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks, provided your total movement before your next turn does not exceed your speed. Any movement you make provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
Hm. I see the logic behind it, but I have to admit I find it flawed - for the cost of 4 non-archery-enhancing Feats you gain the ability to AOO everything within 15-25 ft (assuming Enlarge and BAB of 10 as your best-case scenario) at the cost of not doing your normal attacks (Flurry or iteratives) at much longer ranges (Combat Patrol is full-round action. Flurry is full-round action)? I fail to see the real benefit :/
Hm. I see the logic behind it, but I have to admit I find it flawed - for the cost of 4 non-archery-enhancing Feats you gain the ability to AOO everything within 15-25 ft (assuming Enlarge and BAB of 10 as your best-case scenario) at the cost of not doing your normal attacks (Flurry or iteratives) at much longer ranges (Combat Patrol is full-round action. Flurry is full-round action)? I fail to see the real benefit :/
Full attack bonus on each shot. That's the 'biggest' deal. Since you get to make AoO's at your best bonuses you have less chances to miss.
Hm. I see the logic behind it, but I have to admit I find it flawed - for the cost of 4 non-archery-enhancing Feats you gain the ability to AOO everything within 15-25 ft (assuming Enlarge and BAB of 10 as your best-case scenario) at the cost of not doing your normal attacks (Flurry or iteratives) at much longer ranges (Combat Patrol is full-round action. Flurry is full-round action)? I fail to see the real benefit :/There was an entire thread on how this would work, and it does. At 9th level, the Zen Archer Monk can make AoO's with his bow. ...so Combat patrol works with a bow. So long as they're within your threatened area, you can make AoO's.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you may set up a combat patrol, increasing your threatened area by 5 feet for every 5 points of your base attack bonus. Until the beginning of your next turn, you may make attacks of opportunity against any opponent in this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks, provided your total movement before your next turn does not exceed your speed. Any movement you make provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
Well, you can skip dodge if you'd like, if you take mobility as a monk feat. (Combat Patrol doesn't specify dodge.) Also, with the amazing number of feats you get as a monk, combined with the fact that you don't need Rapid Shot and Manyshot, you have feats to spare, so you may, in fact, want to pick up dodge, just for the extra AC.
While I admit that it might not always be optimal, I guess I can't get over how cool it is. xD For one, all of your attacks are at your highest BAB. (EDIT: What Abraham said. xP) For another your movement speed is amazing as a Monk, so you when someone provokes an AoO, you can reposition yourself to the other side of the provoker, potentially putting yourself in a more favorable position, and then finally attack. (As long as they remain threatened at the end of your movement, but you don't have to be adjacent to the target.) Hopefully you'll provoke more attacks after that. I guess it just seems all too perfect, as only one archetype in the entire game can pull this off: the Zen Archer Monk.
Also, since you don't provoke AoO's (Point Blank Master) and you can make AoO's, (9th level ability) you ARE a melee fighter. Thus Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Reflexes become more relevant.
OK, I'll grant you that makes more sense than I first expected - Full BAB and all. I'd have to crunch to see at what point ZAM would have 3 feats to spare - and still, Flurry attacks should be effective; with +10/+5 BAB (14th lvl Monk) your Flurry is +12/+12/+7/+7/+2 - a reasonable difference. Sure, if you end up with 4-5 AOOs a round it'd make a difference...
The other thing I've seen Combat Patrol used for was a masochistic paladin with bodyguard and in harm's way.
Runs all over the field jumping in front of his allies before they are hit.
For extra creepy points you do it with a halfling with the child-like and pass as human feats.
Guaranteed to cause anything not evil to pause when this apparent child jumps in front of their sword swing intended for the wizard.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
To give you an example of just how many feats you have, here's what a human ZAM might have by level 9:
Improved Unarmed Strike
Weapon Focus(Longbow)
Weapon Specialization (Longbow)
Point Blank Master
Perfect Strike
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot (Level 6 Monk feat)
Deadly Aim
Point Blank Shot
Dodge
Mobility
Combat Reflexes
Combat Patrol
Toughness
Improved Initiative
...so yeah. You have options.
Full attack bonus on each shot. That's the 'biggest' deal. Since you get to make AoO's at your best bonuses you have less chances to miss.Actually it's not full attack bonus on each shot, as your BAB is back to your little Monk BAB rather than full BAB when flurrying, so its actually at a little penalty.
Also as others have pointed out you can do so without Dodge as you can take mobility as a bonus feat.
All in all though it's not all that wonderful.. it's up there with shot on the run. There are uses for Combat Patrol, but I'm not sure an archer is best for it.. as you'd have to make a lot of AOOs to balance out a full attack action.
-James
It's still full attack bonus -- it's just not full bab. I never claimed the two were the same.
It has -- uses. I agree it's probably not something I would ever use, but if someone else wants to more power to them.
Which is why I had the second line in there. You know the one where I stated I wouldn't ever use it.
I'm playing a ZAM right now, and I found that I needed the Rich Parents feats to get a composite bow. My group allowed Heirloom Weapon, too, so I did both. The HW trait still has you pay the full cost for the weapon (just not the +300gp for MW). Something to think about. My character is an Elf, and I took Additional Traits as my 1st level feat. It puts off Precise Shot one level, but I took Warrior of Old (+2 Initiative) and Magical Knack (Inquisitor).
But anyway... just wanted to note that you wouldn't be able to get a composite bow with 1d6x10gp.
Randy
Growing Up Gamers