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Replacement Needed for Legacy of Fire


Gamer Connection

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Looking to play Legacy of Fire? Look no further.

Our gnoll druid just went AWOL and we're looking for a new player. We're only on the second encounter, so you don't need to worry about having missed anything.

Here is copy-pasta from the original recruitment page:

=============================

1st level, average starting money for class

25 point buy

2 traits

Any race or class combination (even things like aasimar, kobolds, goblins, etc.)

No evil characters

+Special Notes+

- If you take the Heirloom Weapon trait, your character does not gain proficiency with the weapon. You still get the masterwork quality for free and a +1 trait bonus to attacks.

- While any class is available for submission, I will let it be known that I am not a fan of Alchemists and Summoners. Just an fyi.

- Gnolls will be allowed as a race for characters. Here is my version:

No racial HD
+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution: Gnolls are fast and hearty.
Darkvision: Gnolls can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Canny: Gnolls gain a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks.
Languages: All gnolls begin play speaking Common and Gnoll. Gnolls with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Abyssal, Giant, Kelish, Orc, Sylvan.
=============================

I'm looking to choose a new player this weekend. Thanks!


...!


Go pseudodragon, go! Concept look interest :P


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Hi DM Tanner,

I am definitely interested. I have a Half-Orc Ranger concept in mind I can do up.

I am new to PBP but have been following your Red hand campaign (gotta love the RSS feeds) so know I like your style and hope I can fit in well

Let me know if I should draw up the Half-orc

Cheers

Blackcat

Liberty's Edge

Would like to post my interest, is there anything particularly needed by the group? Some role not filled yet?


Interested here ... submitting a character I had made for another LoF PbP ... but she died at 1st level ;)

Would love to play her again.

Presenting Kyra Rusmanya, a female ranger with a profound hatred for gnolls.

Kyra Rusmanya


I submitted this character when you were recruiting to begin. Just in case he was close to making the cut, I'll submit him again.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aurichalcum wrote:
...!

Auri, I thought that you had made into a LoF game?


I will resubmit Sabeen (see profile). She could be more healery although I see you already have a cleric.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dan E wrote:
I will resubmit Sabeen (see profile). She could be more healery although I see you already have a cleric.

Between Linah and Khalid, we should be ok as far as healing magic goes, where we are lacking as a group is arcane magic, but that is a roll Sabeen could fill nicely.

DM Tanner, if I am over-stepping my bounds, I apologize and will cease doing so.


Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Talomyr wrote:
Dan E wrote:
I will resubmit Sabeen (see profile). She could be more healery although I see you already have a cleric.

Between Linah and Khalid, we should be ok as far as healing magic goes, where we are lacking as a group is arcane magic, but that is a roll Sabeen could fill nicely.

DM Tanner, if I am over-stepping my bounds, I apologize and will cease doing so.

Gribbit's arcane, too, and we'd be trading out one monstrous PC for another. Nuveril might mistake him for a pugwampi, though. ;)


Resubmitting Zerekias from the original recruitment thread. Desert ranger with the gnoll killer trait.

Zerekias was born within a nomadic tribe of the wasteland. He never knew his father and his mother passed at a very young age. He vaguely remembers her.

The rest of the tribe collectively took care of Zerekias. Obviously, growing up in the wasteland, you learn to survive...or you die. When he was old enough, he was expected to pull his weight in survival of the tribe. All Zerekias learned growing up was, you do what you have to to keep your "family" alive. Secondly, you keep yourself alive. Zerekias grew up never knowing a childhood.

When he was older he took a trip into the city of Katapesh, for no other reason than curiousity. His was amazed at the sight of so many people in one place. Living in the wasteland you just don't see loads of people. While in the city, he was offered a job as a desert guide for a group of travelers. The job doesn't bother him as much as the people do. The money helps with whatever his tribe may need. The majority of his tribe looks down on him for venturing into the city but they have a hard time disputing that Zerekias's lot in life seems to be a blessing from Sarenrae.


I've been wanting to get into a Legacy of fire game for a while now. Hope you like my concept:

Character Name: Badi al'Mukhabbat Nabih Ka'im
Gender: Male
Race: Half-elf
Class: Wizard (Conjuration)

Background:

Spoiler:
Badi al'Mukhabbat Nabih Ka'im, born to the union of an elven slave and her human master, had grown up not knowing his parents and surviving in the world of Katapesh's Nightstalls. Living for a short time as a street rat in the dangerous markets, Badi's elven gifted eyes and natural charisma had saved him from many instances where it could have meant trouble. Fortunately for the young half-elf, his keen intelligence was noticed by Jalim al'Fahir Akil, a minor magician and representative for the Duskwalkers. Taking up a job as an errand boy and near indentured servant to the infamous Duskwalkers, Badi was able to eke out a living. One day, while Badi was on an errand for Jalim, he met a young girl named Haleen, who would later help him to shape his life and become more than just a lost soul of the Nightstalls. The two became close as they survived the terrors and wonders of the Nightstall together, Haleen often protecting them when Badi's attempts at diplomacy failed. Though Badi was older than Haleen, Haleen matured much faster and soon Badi learned to look up to the blossoming woman. As she took up the blade and decided to become an adventurer, she encouraged Badi to follow his heart and not follow in her footsteps. Because of this advice, Badi put his intellect and charm to use as he worked his way up to a minor position in the Duskwalkers and devoted himself to learning magic to aid him in his profession.

As the years passed, Haleen would occasionally return to Katapesh and the two would sit and swap stories of their lives; Haleen would recount the dangers which she had faced while traveling and Badi, of the mysteries and wonders one could find in the Nightstalls. However, when Badi returned home from the Nightstalls one day, Haleen's things were gone and all that was left was a note. While this in itself was not out of the ordinary, as Haleen had often left without saying goodbye, what was strange was that the note told him to forget about her. Reading over the note, Badi noticed that something seemed forced about the writing. Had Haleen been kidnapped? Or possibly enchanted to leave? With that conclusion drawn, Badi decided to focus his growing magical ability on finding out what happened to Haleen.

Giving up his position with the Duskwalkers, Badi devoted the money he saved and his skills to finding Haleen and ensuring she was alright. One day, after a long day of casting divinations and speaking with his contacts in the Nightstalls, Badi discovered that someone matching Haleen's description had been spotted near Kelmarane. Buying passage on a caravan heading to Solku, Badi then convinced Garaval, a domo who was leading an expedition to Kelmarane, to allow him to accompany them on the expedition.

Description:

Spoiler:
Badi, weighing in at 165 pounds and standing at 5'11", is rather average for a half-elf. However, his thin frame has a bearing that speaks of confidence. His blue eyes hold a sharp intellect that serves him well during disputes in the ill-famed Nightstalls and his slightly tanned but healthy skin, demonstrate the life he has lived within the bustling city of trade. His clothing, the light colored robes and scarves common to those who live in Katapesh, are of a fine quality and embroidered with images of the janni and elementals that fill Kelishite mythology. Holding his layer of thin robes closed is a fine belt which has a scroll case hanging from it. Adorning his head is a turban the same color as his robes which covers his light brown hair and is held together with a broach of simple bronze. Walking in black, wing-tipped boots and bearing a dark, polished cane of Chelaxian origin, Badi seems to win people over with his well kept appearance as well as with his words.

Personality:

Spoiler:

Rational and calculating, Badi has a mind for business and negotiations that has developed after years of working for the Duskwalkers. A firm believer in trade being the most important aspect of life in Katapesh, Badi often analyzes situations based on a very organized value system that is focused around coming to a conclusion which can benefit him, though his time with Haleen has also instilled in him a set of values that disapproves taking advantage of others just to satisfy his own needs. That and the fact the he started his life as almost an indentured servant ensured his dislike of Katapesh’s views on slavery.


i had multiple ideas

Tian Cleric of Zon-Kuthon? a complete gothic masochist who beleives that the rack is the solution to every problem and scars her flesh for every important personal milestone in her life.

Sickly Chelexian Noble Support Bard? with a 7 constitution too.

Short Tempered Perpetually Angry Ifriti Blooded Human Sorcerer (fire elemental bloodline) (the ifriti vizier's great niece to be exact)? has a nasty habit of setting things on fire. and is at worst, Chaotic Neutral. completely negligent about the idea of accidentally getting an ally in the blast. always blinded by her rage and jumping to conclusions that make the most sense yet best mesh with her emotions. she is only capable of feeling 3 emotions, frustration, anger, and homicidal ballistic pyromaniac anger.


Nasir Ibn Al'Said

Human Male C/G
Sorcerer (Elemental: Air)

Background:

As a child Nasir had always been different, perhaps it was his ice blue eyes that betrayed his otherworldly ancestry or his insatiable curiosity that led him into trouble. In his early teens, when Nasir's powers began to manifest, his parent's sent him to Absalom to learn how to control his newfound abilities.
While there Nasir met a Venture-Captain from the Pathfinder Society and longed to join expeditions to foriegn lands. Unforunately he was too young at the time. When he turned 18 he joined the Society and has been sent back to Qadira to join an expedition to a ruined city to explore and report back as to the cause of the city's destruction and any find any artifacts that may be on interest to the society.

Stats:

Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 13
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 18

Skills:

Appraise: +8; Bluff: +8; Intimidate: +8; Knowledge (arcana): +6; Spellcraft: +6; Use Magic Device: +8

Feats:

Elemental Focus (Electricity)
Toughness

Traits:

Genie Blooded (Air)
Seeking Adventure


Talomyr wrote:


Auri, I thought that you had made into a LoF game?

Sorry I wasn't sure how to express my condolences for the GM, who took the time to run a game and got stuffed around; and at the same time display my disaapointment with a player who signed up for someething, took the place of other people who wanted the spot, and then didn't 'turn up'.

Gives me deep irritatiopns that does!

And so soon into the whole thing.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shifty wrote:
Talomyr wrote:


Auri, I thought that you had made into a LoF game?

Sorry I wasn't sure how to express my condolences for the GM, who took the time to run a game and got stuffed around; and at the same time display my disaapointment with a player who signed up for someething, took the place of other people who wanted the spot, and then didn't 'turn up'.

Gives me deep irritatiopns that does!

And so soon into the whole thing.

It is irritating.

I am glad that you've found a game. I really like Aurichalcum's concept, and I'll be following the thread just to see how he advances and adapts.


GM Wulfson wrote:

Nasir Ibn Al'Said

Human Male C/G
Sorcerer (Elemental: Air)

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Actually swap out Appraise for Knowledge (planes) in the previous build.


Aurichalcum wrote:
...!

Forgive my ignorance, but are you submitting Aurichalcum? I can't tell if you already have him in another game or not.

Talomyr wrote:
DM Tanner, if I am over-stepping my bounds, I apologize and will cease doing so.

Of course not. A good DM always takes the input of his players into account when making important decisions. ;)


Sorry Tanner, I did actually manage to nab another campaign that is just starting with Ye Old Apothecary (you can admire my now completed L1 statblock)

As posted above I was just a bit surprised and dismayed that a player had let you down so quickly after you had recruited them, especially in the light that you had other keen applicants also wanting the position and they would have been aware of that.


Hey Tanner, gonna withdraw my name. I've noticed you really don't need another melee guy. I think Talomyr has it right in you guys needed some magic.

But just in case you ever do need another melee guy, there is a gnoll ranger concept I was thinking about. I like Zerekias, but his build begins with barbarian and you sure as heck don't need another one of those! :)

Thanks!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Hi DM Tanner,

As per my message above, meet Regnar Death-Walker

tis in rough format, I will tidy it up if you like him. Just check my 25 point buy, I have never done that before, we usually roll. he has +2 for being Half orc.

I have yet to add my traits or feats.

Hope you like him

Cheers

Black cat

Lantern Lodge

I was still hoping for an all-Gnoll party... *pout*


...erm you meant you wanted all Gnoll and a Pseudodragon... just sayin...


If you really don't need another melee oriented character, I could always restat and fix the last part of my Mage/Cleric/Mystic Theurge background.

Delwyn Mane

Would be fun to play him :)


Tanner, i'm due to join Ye Olde Apothecary's game with this character but it looks like that ones fizzling out si i'd like to submit him here- if I get a spot obviously I will pass on playing Ye Olde's game.

The character is fully statted out with average wealth (35GP) and his background fiction etc. is all available in this profile. So you have an idea of the concept, i'll re-post the fluff here.

Hes currently on a 20 point buy but could be upgraded to 25 point buy in a matter of moments.

Background Fiction-

Sajan Krama Sumna stood at the edge of his family's farm, a dozen miles from the golden city of Katapesh, deep out into the rural wilderness. The simple giant stood, solemnly watching as the flames licked hungrily at the stables, the last of the buildings to go up in a blaze.

The main house was by now a smouldering ruin, blackened and broken. Sajan was too simple to recognise the house as a metaphor for his life, and did not possess the intellect to understand the tragic irony of the situation- that his home was burnt down while he was out on a trip to collect water.

Sajan simply stood, for how long he knew not; still holding a huge water pail over his muscular shoulders. The pail was too heavy for most men to even lift, but Sajan barely felt its weight. He knew in his heart that no one would have survived this Gnoll attack, and the charred bodies littering the courtyard were testament to this.

Sajan fell to his knees some time later as the enormity of the situation finally overwhelmed him. Broken and torn inside, the pail falling off his aching shoulders, Sajan finally felt the shock and grief hit and sobbed as he stepped back into the grounds of his familys home. Stumbling around, he found signs of the battle- it seems his father had taken a few of the cursed creatures with him, each bearing the mark of the family heirloom known as The Sentinel's Fist. Searching through the remains of the farms defenders, Sajan found the precious heirloom, now his only valuable possession, and the birthright his father had always promised him.

The Sentinels Fist, so the legend tells, was handed down through the Sumna family in Vudra for millenia. The first great Sumna, Sajan Krama (whose name is frequently found through the family line), was given the pair of brass knuckles by Gruhastha the Keeper for their devotion and dedication to his cause. Apparently, the brass knuckles were once wielded by Gruhastha himself, although their magic has long since faded. The Sumna family always held the deity closest to their hearts of all the hundreds of Vudrani deities.

Closing his fist around the knuckles, the young teenager felt an understanding pass through him, a driving purpose that he knew would guide his every step from this moment forwards. Gruhastha's task of keeping watch over Golarion until the world reaches enlightenment is too great even for a deity, and Sajan knew that it was his destiny to assist the deity, even as a mere man- or die trying.

Sajan felt new energy flow through him as the first stirrings of his ki awakened. He had a purpose, a goal- his life had worth and meaning, despite what had happened. To assist a deity himself- a mighty goal to strive for.

But first- vengeance. Sajan devoted the next few years of his life to wiping out the Gnoll tribe that slaughtered his family, killing them in any way he could, wearing them out and becoming a demon to the tribe. By the time Sajan came for the last of them, he was an expert in slaying Gnolls and the remaining Gnolls were worshipping the simpleton as a divine force. Their proclaimed loyalty did not save them from the Sentinels Fist, the massive power behind the blows that rained down on them, and the unrelenting force of justice in the young man.

His family avenged, the young Vudrani gathered his few possessions and joined the expedition to liberate Kelmarane. Something about some of the other expedition members made Sajan sure that they were destined to rise in caste in their next life, and he resolved to keep them safe, watch over them, and help them reach their enlightenment while also seeking his.

Biography-
Sajan is a simple giant, his quiet speech contrasting against his great size and strength. Years of ridicule when failing to understand simple mathematics and literacy have taught Sajan to only speak when he feels he has something truly worth saying. He firmly believes in justice, but is more concerned with enlightenment than the battle between good and evil- enlightenment transcends their struggle in his eyes. Uncomfortable in the limelight, Sajan takes a supporting role in any social situation. In battle, his fierceness is matched only by his protective instincts.

Appearance-
Sajan moves gracefully for a man of his size, and dresses in simple grey robes with a small backpack on his back. Unless he has need of his hands for lifting or climbing, Sajans brass knuckles are usually worn, the giant taking comfort in their presence and reminding him of his mission. Sajan possesses piercing green eyes, and has shaved his hair to leave his large head entirely bald. Sajan is heavily set and built, looking like the classic hired muscle he often hires himself out as.

Obviously this may not be the arcane caster the group is looking for, but its a character concept i'm really hoping to get into a LoF game at some point.

Alexander Kilcoyne


Hmm Sajan I was thinking the same thing - that it may have been a false start. Its a shame because it looked like we had a great group of guys - I was so happy to be getting a group going... then... hmm

Going to think on it for a bit.

Sovereign Court

I am sympathetic to the DM- we had players squabbling over Paladin abilities before the game started, a Pseudodragon to balance against the rest, a summoner trying to get augment summon for his eidolon and two similar concepts.

I did attempt to keep as neutral a tone as possible (despite my hatred for the Summoner class) but I can see why a DM would look at all that and scarper... lol.


I agree wholeheartedly, but in fairness I think we pretty much got everyone ironed out fairly well, despite one character wanting to flog me off at the bazaar!

I'm just a little...saddened.

Dragon may be lookin fer work again.

(AK, on the upside, at least I got the character statted up into a 15 pt build so I could see what it looked like)

Sovereign Court

Statted out as he is, Auri is still far too powerful when compared to a Level 1 character, but its moot until you get into a game so i'll leave it alone.


Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
Statted out as he is, Auri is still far too powerful when compared to a Level 1 character, but its moot until you get into a game so i'll leave it alone.

Hmm we had that convo earlier which I came back to in detail, and I am not certain your points bore out - there just wasnt the imbalance, and from a party perpesective I would have been creamed in a one on one.

Certainly big HP potential, and a good capacity to escape being killed by fleeing, but the tradeoff was a complete lack of meaningful offence at the start.

Just curious what you see him being able to 'do' that would lead to being op? cause it sure isn't combat, or magic, or...

As far as skills go, its about on par with a halfling rogue.

Sovereign Court

HD= D12. Two of them. And you wanted max HP on each. x2 better than even a Barbarian.

BAB= High. Cream of the crop.

Skill points. 8+ Int modifier. As good as a Rogue. Stealth +19 at first level equivalent.

Saving Throws. Three high saves. As good as a Monk.

Note that all three of these features are unique to each class. No one except the Barbarian gets D12. No one except the Rogue gets 8+Int skill points. No one except the Monk gets three high saving throws.

A Fly speed at Level 1 Equivalent.

Blindsense at Level 1 Equivalent.

Telepathy at Level 1 Equivalent.

Darkvision (and low-light vision) at Level 1 Equivalent.

Spell resistance at Level 1 Equivalent.

Immunity to paralysis and sleep, at Level 1 Equivalent.

Natural Armour, at level 1 Equivalent.

You say poor offense, and yes your damage is low. But a DC14 Save or Die (sleep for that duration is effectively death) at a +7 attack bonus is enviable.

Basically, you have two HD that are better than any other, you want them maxed to have 26HP at Level 1 equivalent even with a measly constitution. All you've lost is one level class features, and gained a massive amount in return.

I still love the concept- but I would require the DM to think carefully about the balance of the character. At the very least, he/she should not allow max HP for the HD's.

Sorry for the threadjack Tanner.


Hmm sure you get a good BAB for level 1, though the Feat was required to be able to use it.

Skill points were ok, 12. - and the reason Stealth gets so high is because of the huge modifier for being size 'tiny', +8 right there.
That same Tiny size means no real capacity to carry gear either - and the cost is any melee damage, 1d2-2 for a bite, or 1d3-2 for a sting.
Ditto for the natural armour, 2 points of armour is what, Leather for anyone else? And it doesn't scale. You cant get it enchanted later either.

Offence totally relies upon having a single attack that hits, then subsequently relies on a failed save. As opposed to just killing the creature outright as a singe attack melee'r.

The sensory capacity is pretty good within 60', I'll pay that - without Blindsense he's got the same deal as a Half Orc as far as visuals.

Telepathy is something raised a few times, yet I can't see how this is a clincher... mechanically it doesn't 'do' much apart from allow you to communicate, and only within 60'. I'm curious about how you see this as a noteworthy advantage? I may have missed a finer point.

Fly is good I suppose, but only in that you can run away. But only in calm weather. Any decent wind and you are walking.

Saves are also good, indeed he is hard to simply one shot with a spell.
Immunity to paralysis and sleep - sounds kinda elven, or go down the Halfling path once again and have some great saves.

The ONLY thing I agree on is that there were a LOT of HP, I didn't want maxed out 2d12,the GM specified take max at L1, so I complied - you'll note that my point later was to at least ensure the second die was scaled in line with HP progression.

Anyhow, as you say, moot.

It IS pretty ok for level 1, but that goodness would be fading pretty quickly once the party begins any advancement past 'GO'.


Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Completely off-topic to AK:
Sorry about your other game, but I was a little concerned: Ye Olde Apothecary is the same DM who disappeared at the beginning of a LoF game Nuveril was supposed to be in back in March. Dropped 2 games he was DMing and a couple he was playing in. This is the first time I've seen him back on the boards.

Sovereign Court

Joana wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Joana:

Thanks for the heads up, I had my suspicions he was a little unreliable.


I always hate this part. I wish I could somehow win the lottery and spend my days playing on-line and in real life. *sigh* But I suppose that will have to wait until retirement.

Would the following please report to the OOC thread:

DanE (Sabeen, Witch)

Alexander Kilcoyne (Sajan, Monk)

Thank you, and happy gaming to you all!


Oh well,

Good luck guys, looks like I've missed cut again.

Missed a chance to app with Lucendar too.

Maybe some more LOF's will pop up.


I was this ->*<- close to choosing you, Nik Beattie, but I do think that Aurichalcum needs some work in order to not be very unbalanced compared to 1st-level characters. Perhaps a racial progression to spread out the special abilities and defenses? I think that would go a long ways toward convincing a future DM.


I was this ->*<- close to choosing you, Nik Beattie, but I do think that Aurichalcum needs some work in order to not be very unbalanced compared to 1st-level characters. Perhaps a racial progression to spread out the special abilities and defenses? I think that would go a long ways toward convincing a future DM.


DM Tanner wrote:
I was this ->*<- close to choosing you, Nik Beattie, but I do think that Aurichalcum needs some work in order to not be very unbalanced compared to 1st-level characters. Perhaps a racial progression to spread out the special abilities and defenses? I think that would go a long ways toward convincing a future DM.

Sure, as I have maintained from the get go, I am right up for that conversation about tailoring to fit. In fact it was only after I jumped on a campaign I statted him out, and took a 15pt build against their 20.

A progressive scale is something I would talk to a GM about, as it would take their input to make sure it worked.

As I did the breakdown yet again for AK, who frankly I think pulled a dick move, the balancing act isn't as big a feat as first thought.

I just thought the suggestions on the other thread about scaling out the abilities AND still paying the level were a bit steep.

Sovereign Court

Aurichalcum wrote:


As I did the breakdown yet again for AK, who frankly I think pulled a dick move, the balancing act isn't as big a feat as first thought.

I broke down your current abilities and gave my opinion. Note that I wasn't going to bother (I had called it moot) until you asked me to elaborate further.

Critiquing your character mechanically was not done in order to try and discourage Tanner to pick you, and I resent that implication intensely. I still think you have a great concept and i'd love to see Auri in a game- i've made my points about the mechanics currently on him, and I think you'll find many people will agree with me that currently with two max HP Dragon HD he is too powerful in comparison to other Level 1 characters.

I've never even claimed the 'balancing act' isn't feasible- if I was to DM LoF i'd happily take you on board and attempt to balance the dragon to the best of my ability.

I don't appreciate my attempts to help you understand my perspective being called a 'dick move'. I won't be responding to you on this topic any further, and i'm not interested in a flame war either.


My point being AK, is that we had already had that initial debate elsewhere in its correct context, you had raised your points and I had responded in the interest of progressing the issue. You didn't subsequently respond.

Whilst you had said it was moot, until I get in a game.
Which means you are leaving the door open to further debate, which I'd have preferred to have in the appropriate place, which is not in the middle of an application process.
Further, the debate if any, should be between myself and a potential GM, not with another potential competitor for a slot in the same game.

It may or may not have been your intention, but frankly I see it tactless to simply have a one sided highlight of the bad points of someones character that could concern a DM and likely influence them to 'too hard basket' the concept, especially in the light of me making a point to each potential GM that I was up for the conversation about moderation.

Frankly I'd have been happy with ONE HD, I don't care - stats are boring and 'm not here to grandstand my character. I have maintained a completely flexible approach right from the get go, and scaled back my point buy vs yours significantly, and was prepared to keep scaling backwards. Show me at what point you didn't see any flexibility and resistance to being 'balanced'.

I appreciate you indicating you aren't going to respond, and I'm not interested in flame war either, but it's pretty clear (or it seems so to me) that your complaints had a real impact in the decision making process - evident in the note from Tanner. So whilst that might not have been your intent, it was certainly to my detriment, and thus yeah I am annoyed with your actions.

Edit: in this campaign I'd be running my 15 pts V 25pts for the rest, so even more of an offset.

If you were in an interview with a potential employer, and another candidate walked in on it and started highlighting his concerns about your ability/qualifications etc, and then you subsequently didn't get the gig - how would YOU call it?


Congats to Alex and DanE for making the cut and please keep me in mind Tanner, should you need a wizard in the future.

Lantern Lodge

didn't either Dragon or one of the extra books (Savage Species?) have a breakdown for the Pseudodragon?


Me'mori wrote:
didn't either Dragon or one of the extra books (Savage Species?) have a breakdown for the Pseudodragon?

Not sure, I was never a 3.5 player.

I went on a little hunt around for inspiration and some mechanical precedents, but not a lot turned up.

Edit: went fishing for savage species info, no record of PD's but some good mechanics on working out ECL's etc.

Lantern Lodge

Indeed. I did some digging as well, and turned up nothing. No promises but I can dig into the books and see about building one, from the ground up, 'less faster heads do it.


Me'mori wrote:
Indeed. I did some digging as well, and turned up nothing. No promises but I can dig into the books and see about building one, from the ground up, 'less faster heads do it.

Cool, if you get spare time I'm always up for a constructive crtique :)

I think what people miss is that applying a Tiny template drops CR quite a bit. Ultimately though, I don't want to bog it down too much because I would prefer to design with a GM rather than hand them what they might think is a set expectation.

When thinking this out I took it back to James Jacobs and he confirmed CR1, so...

Anyhow, I have another thread for that discussion already going, so maybe we can shift the chat to there :)


Hei Auri, I've been following your dragon around for a while now and I'm loving the concept.
Hope you find a working mechanic to make him a viable choice for a PC but I just had to pipe in that lvl 1 PC's are CR 1/2, not 1...


Sigz wrote:

Hei Auri, I've been following your dragon around for a while now and I'm loving the concept.

Hope you find a working mechanic to make him a viable choice for a PC but I just had to pipe in that lvl 1 PC's are CR 1/2, not 1...

Yup, a L1 creature is basically taking a 1 level 'adjustment' to level. The mechanics become a bit smoother once the party hits L2. As I say, the preference was to find a group in play and join in with that level adjustment, OR find a group that was flexible enough to go with it in the short time it took from L1-L2 and just deal with the fact that the character cant meaningfully contribute in combat, has some ok stats, just can't 'fight'.

Its covered in the Bestiary, its like taking any other 1HD like a Drow or Aasimar, you just end up an adventure level behind.

Plenty of room to move it though - point buy is a great example; a 15 point build isn't as good as a 20, which in turn is step behind a 25.

So Level 1 isn't always level 1 when you add in that factor as well; a 10 point build differential is a pretty significant gap.

Thanks for the feedback about the concept though - it seems pretty popular, just devilishly hard to get a group.


From the 3.5 Draconomicon:

Lesser Dragon PCs
Using another creature of the dragon type as a player character
is rather less complicated than using a true dragon.
Such a creature has a set level adjustment and no built-in
progression due to age, so after the character begins play
there is no reason to advance the character as a monster
again. For example, a wyvern character, with a level adjustment
of +4 and 7 Hit Dice, has an ECL of 11 and joins a
party of 11th-level characters to adventure. The wyvern
continues advancing as a character, just like the other characters
in the party.
Many creatures of the dragon type have more than 20
Hit Dice, or their level adjustment would raise their ECL
above 20. These monsters are not included in the following
information.

Lesser Dragon Level Adj.
Abyssal drake +5
Air drake +3
Dragon turtle +5
Dragonnel +3
Earth drake +3
Faerie dragon +2
Fire drake +3
Forest landwyrm +3
Ice drake +3
Magma drake +3
Ooze drake +3
Plains landwyrm +2
Pseudodragon +3
Smoke drake +3
Spiked felldrake +2
Underdark landwyrm +2
Water drake +3
Wyvern +4

Template Level Adj.
Dracolich +4
Draconic +1
Ghostly dragon +5
Half-dragon +3
Vampiric dragon +5

So a pseudodragon (as written) would have an ECL of 5.

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