That's not a magic, that is just a shot of Dutch courage, no different to British sailors having a tot of rum before battle.
I was thinking more along the lines of "magic" that makes you immune to bullets and the like.
Guys with spears attacking guys with rifles, as at Isandhlwana, works fine if the guys with rifles run out of bullets due to inept tactical dispositions and negligent logistics. Then it becomes 18,000 guys with spears versus 700 guys with bayonets......!
Strangely at Rorke's Drift shortly afterwards the opposite was true. The British were well placed and had an ample supply of ammunition that could actually be used. The Zulu commander, on the other hand, employed terrible tactics and persisted with small waves of attacks all day. If he had launched one big attack at one side of the defences the defenders would have been overwhelmed, and the battle of Rorke's Drift would just be a footnote to the disaster at Islandhwana.
I think the canibinoids are a little more potent than one shot of rum, they made the warriors more aggressive and less cautious, and that's what was needed to get in close.
Of course the big mistake at Islandwana was not lack of ammunition supply, it was that the soldiers were spread out too wide and thin as they advanced to meet the Zulus. When a rifle jammed (and the Martini-Henry rifle did jam when used for a sustained period) it effectively made a gap in the line several yards wide until the soldier with the jam cleared it. By spreading out, the British dispersed their limited forces to thinly to halt the Zulu charge.
Rorke's Drift was the opposite: the men were in an excellent defensive position (one of the officers was an engineer) and kept close packed ranks to maximise firepower. Because of the small size of the defences there were only so many attackers that could close, and this meant they could have been mowed down by concentrated fire when they got close, and they were. Even so it came to hand-to-hand combat a few times, but again the limited size of the defences played to the defender's advantage.
At Islandwana the drugs were an advantage, hyping up the warriors to keep charging no matter their comrades were falling around them, and break holes in the British lines - it only took one warrior to kill one soldier to open a gap. At Rorke's Drift they didn't matter - no matter how fast you charged there were no holes to exploit and you were likely to get hit and killed anyway, and even if one warrior got through he would be facing not one soldier at a time but several.
The drugs were not a deciding factor, the British tactics were in both battles, but the drugs are an example of the use of 'magic' in a D&D-like way. Imagine an army of light infantry that gives every soldier a potion of mage armor before they go into battle, giving them the protection of heavier armour troops with no loss of mobility ...
I would like to make a plea for 'styles' or 'types' not 'schools'.
It would probably be neater if Ultimate Combat had lots of combat styles but had zero real-world combat styles as they come with so much cultural baggage and create too many opportunities for "you're doing it wrong" conflict.
This +1000.
There's just too many armchair experts that will take it 100% seriously and get all up in arms. The amount of Bullshido we would then be exposed to would be maxtreme, and would far eclipse the volume of the actual source material.
You could take the real world 'art/style' and rebadge it.
Similarly, different racial types might also have their own indigenous arts that suit their staure, demeanor, and environment.
Dwarf-Kan-Do might be some sort of grappling system for use in enclosed areas like tunnels, and consist of short 'close in' moves - practised in the 'Bull-Ring' - an Octagonal cage in the warrior halls..
Elfinjitsu might rely on acrobatics and striking from concelament out of the forest dressed in a pair of black pyjamas.
Perhaps a Bluff-based style for minotaurs?
Jumping in just to say: thank you for existing.
I would like to make a plea for 'styles' or 'types' not 'schools'.
It would probably be neater if Ultimate Combat had lots of combat styles but had zero real-world combat styles as they come with so much cultural baggage and create too many opportunities for "you're doing it wrong" conflict.
This +1000.
There's just too many armchair experts that will take it 100% seriously and get all up in arms. The amount of Bullshido we would then be exposed to would be maxtreme, and would far eclipse the volume of the actual source material.
You could take the real world 'art/style' and rebadge it.
Similarly, different racial types might also have their own indigenous arts that suit their staure, demeanor, and environment.
Dwarf-Kan-Do might be some sort of grappling system for use in enclosed areas like tunnels, and consist of short 'close in' moves - practised in the 'Bull-Ring' - an Octagonal cage in the warrior halls..
Elfinjitsu might rely on acrobatics and striking from concelament out of the forest dressed in a pair of black pyjamas.
Agreed. Players can select and combine styles for their own uniqueness.
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I would like to make a plea for 'styles' or 'types' not 'schools'.
It would probably be neater if Ultimate Combat had lots of combat styles but had zero real-world combat styles as they come with so much cultural baggage and create too many opportunities for "you're doing it wrong" conflict.
This +1000.
There's just too many armchair experts that will take it 100% seriously and get all up in arms. The amount of Bullshido we would then be exposed to would be maxtreme, and would far eclipse the volume of the actual source material.
You could take the real world 'art/style' and rebadge it.
Similarly, different racial types might also have their own indigenous arts that suit their staure, demeanor, and environment.
Dwarf-Kan-Do might be some sort of grappling system for use in enclosed areas like tunnels, and consist of short 'close in' moves - practised in the 'Bull-Ring' - an Octagonal cage in the warrior halls..
Elfinjitsu might rely on acrobatics and striking from concelament out of the forest dressed in a pair of black pyjamas.
I think this idea is good. But base things around normal martial arts to give them some grounding. Say the PF version of Suiken(Drunken boxing) is a dwarven art with a dwarven name...stuff like that.
And who wouldn't be scared of a dwarven monk who is drunk as a skunk.
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I would like to make a plea for 'styles' or 'types' not 'schools'.
It would probably be neater if Ultimate Combat had lots of combat styles but had zero real-world combat styles as they come with so much cultural baggage and create too many opportunities for "you're doing it wrong" conflict.
This +1000.
There's just too many armchair experts that will take it 100% seriously and get all up in arms. The amount of Bullshido we would then be exposed to would be maxtreme, and would far eclipse the volume of the actual source material.
You could take the real world 'art/style' and rebadge it.
Similarly, different racial types might also have their own indigenous arts that suit their staure, demeanor, and environment.
Dwarf-Kan-Do might be some sort of grappling system for use in enclosed areas like tunnels, and consist of short 'close in' moves - practised in the 'Bull-Ring' - an Octagonal cage in the warrior halls..
Elfinjitsu might rely on acrobatics and striking from concelament out of the forest dressed in a pair of black pyjamas.
Everything about this post is awesome. Please lock the thread, we're done here.
Another vote for kali/arnis/escrima here.
Off the top of my head:
aikido
capoeira
jiujitsu
judo
karate
kendo
kenpo
krav maga
kung fu
pankration
sumo
tae kwan do
tai chi
Sambo.
Another vote for kali/arnis/escrima here.
+1. TWF, FTW!
I would like to make a plea for 'styles' or 'types' not 'schools'.
It would probably be neater if Ultimate Combat had lots of combat styles but had zero real-world combat styles as they come with so much cultural baggage and create too many opportunities for "you're doing it wrong" conflict.
We've got:
Scorpion Style
Gorgon Fist
Cornugun Style...I would like to see more of this, for example
roper style (grappler)
bulette style (charges/headbutts)
Whirlwind style (flurry-master)
Scuttleback style (tripper/grappler)etc. etc.
Of course, real world martial arts can make great inspiration for this but I don't want to feel (or be told) I'm playing my 'boxing-style' wrong: if I'm playing 'Brutal Fist' style then I will feel less constrained.
Yes! Great post. Not only would this make Ultimate Combat more suited to non-d20 games, but it would also add a fantasy feel to combat styles. I don't want my dwarf warrior to know a dash of Tae Kwan Do; I'd much prefer it if he knew a dash of the "Earth Shatter" style, whatever that amounts to whether it mimics a real world martial style or not, but preferably not.
I'd like the option to mix and match some of them, if you please. The style I practice is a combined martial art based mainly on karate, judo and jujitsu, and I've studied a bit outside the school, trying to find some other techniques that compliment what I already know. I think it'd be interesting to have a character like that, possibly one who goes around as a "school breaker", copying the good parts of some of the styles he defeats or loses to.
At the same time, I can understand that it would be a pain in the tuckis to balance that, so I will completely understand if it doesn't make it in.
I'd like the option to mix and match some of them, if you please. The style I practice is a combined martial art based mainly on karate, judo and jujitsu, and I've studied a bit outside the school, trying to find some other techniques that compliment what I already know. I think it'd be interesting to have a character like that, possibly one who goes around as a "school breaker", copying the good parts of some of the styles he defeats or loses to.
Exactly! All the legendary martial artists created or modified styles.
Like Musashi's introduction: His school was his father's, his teacher was nature, his style was his own.
I'd like to see:
Western Boxing
A 4-armed style of grappling.
Maybe with 4 arms, can grapple with one set while attack with the other set, still allowing effectively a full attack with the arms. Or gets something equivalent to a shield bonus, defending with one pair while still being able to attack with the other.
These may just be variations of Kung-Fu but they're cool:
Drunken Boxing (e.g. Jackie Chan in Drunken Master)
Monkey Style
Crane Style
Snake Style
Most of all though I'd like to see small joint manipulation from styles like Jujitsu well represented.
Simple requests from me. I like the mentions of Pankration first of all. But feel like Pankration could just be boxing and a form of western wrestling combined by the player. After all why would a player choose Boxing and wrestling and something with trips and throws for takedowns(unless his wrestling includes takedowns), when they can just pick Pankration for it all. Pankration therefore feels to me more like a practical sport or war application of a wide range of "arts".
Aside from that good ol folk wrestling is grand I prefer characters of a simple origin and Catch Wrestling is perfect for them. Locks and holds that are comparable to Jujitsu.
Maybe throw in an urban "knife combat" for self defense buffs including "dirty fighting" strikes to groin, eyes, or other non sporting areas. Concealed weapon bonuses? Just a thought.
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I'm thinking that most martial arts have similar things involved in them.
Most Karate styles are a hard style that include side kicks and a good back punch.
Most Tae Kwon Do styles include a lot of flashy high kicks.
Kung Fu can be divided into many different styles, but stylistically it includes a lot of circular defenses and riposte style attacks. It seems to focus a lot on feinting and distraction as well.
So rather than delineate each individual style in the book, why not write about different techniques, and then say, "users of Karate, Muay Thai, etc." would use this technique.
If differing styles must be delineated, I would highly suggest adding options for creating a mixed martial artist.
The lists in this thread are blowing my mind. Had no idea there were so many fighting style variants. A bit overwhelming.
Just about any culture you point at has their own style, or multitude of fighting styles.
At this stage they haven't even really touched most of the world
This is why I believe a 'Style' based handbook will fail, because a Dwarf picking TaeKwonDo and Judo looks daft.
Better to break down the styles into core components (strikes/grappling/trapping etc) and let people 'build' a bunch of styles from there.
You guys are also talking about weapons a lot, which is pretty much covered under weapon focus/specialization etc - martial arts shouldn't add much extra to this except for maybe some style feats.
A good example is people getting excited by Arnis etc - already covered under two weapon fighting in Core.
The only addition I think that works is extra new weapons - even thats a maybe.
Frankly though, almost all the Martial Arts books I've seen have been written by non-practitioner fanbois, and just make me weep.
I wouldn't buy the supplements as I can't take the misrepresentations of the styles seriously.
I'm thinking that most martial arts have similar things involved in them.
Most Karate styles are a hard style that include side kicks and a good back punch.
Most Tae Kwon Do styles include a lot of flashy high kicks.
Kung Fu can be divided into many different styles, but stylistically it includes a lot of circular defenses and riposte style attacks. It seems to focus a lot on feinting and distraction as well.
So rather than delineate each individual style in the book, why not write about different techniques, and then say, "users of Karate, Muay Thai, etc." would use this technique.
If differing styles must be delineated, I would highly suggest adding options for creating a mixed martial artist.
I think many of us have mentioned this already. Better to break it down into elements:
Fierce Kick
Hard Strike
Soft Block
Vicious Counter
Nerve Strike
Stealth Blow
Joint Lock
Low Sweep
High Throw
Then pick the elements you want to represent the style and technique your character will use.
Better to break down the styles into core components (strikes/grappling/trapping etc) and let people 'build' a bunch of styles from there.
I completely agree here.
A not overly complicated system for striking based styles and a not overly complicated system for grappling based styles. The rest should be fluff.As it stands you can already attack with a weapon, attack unarmed, or grapple in the core. For obvious reasons the class abilities, feats, etc build on weapons far more than they do the other two. That makes total sense.
Once you turn to trying to do "martial arts" the system should not be any more complex than the existing tools for weapons, maybe a little less.
If you try to do "this is kung fu and THIS is Muay Thai" you will waste too much space making a clunkcy system that will just end up being inadequate for the tastes of 60% of the Kung Fu and Muay Thai advocates anyway.
Simple and open to player added flavor.
And then, of course, go nuts with the fantasy side of things......
This is why I believe a 'Style' based handbook will fail, because a Dwarf picking TaeKwonDo and Judo looks daft.
+1 If they want to make it their own, Paizo should take a step back from using real world arts and find an alternate way to break it down using applicable stereotypes for the various races and maybe add in some elements of philosophy for the various styles:
"The Elven way of the leaf is about moving like a leaf in the breeze to avoid blows and take a more advantageous position while embracing one's link with nature. Orcish pummelling is about injuring or at least intimidating the opponent into submission as hard and as quickly as possible."
A good example is people getting excited by Arnis etc - already covered under two weapon fighting in Core.
Conversely unarmed strike already covers martial arts nearly entirely, so unless you're suggesting there's no point in the book at all, a request for Arnis isn't really that unreasonable. :)
"The only addition I think that works is extra new weapons - even thats a maybe."
Some new manuevers might be also be nice. (And finally resolving the difference between a half staff and a quarterstaff for the gaming community would be cool too.)
Conversely unarmed strike already covers martial arts nearly entirely, so unless you're suggesting there's no point in the book at all, a request for Arnis isn't really that unreasonable. :)
Yeah fair comment that one.
What I was sort of thinking is that people simlpy see Arnis as just TWF with sticks, and thats all they are looking at. I believe that this is all well and truly covered by the RAW.
If they are looking at the complete art, they will notice all the rest of it, including the unarmed strikes, trapping, takedowns, weapon defence etc. I think there is certainly scope for building the Arnis fighter along the lines of RAW, and then having a companion book (COmplete Martial Arts) adding in a few new Feats or combat options to give mechanics to it all.
The main sensitivities I would keep in mind are:
Unarmed is the Monks thing, don't give away his edge to any old person - I think a full martial arts fighter should be comparable, but the Monk should have his thing. (On a truly personal preference, I don't have much of a soft spot for Oriental Adventures Monks in my campaigns anyhow, but thats me).
Weapons related to whatever styles should be paired with existing models where possible, to prevent needless 'must haves' - lets not make Katana2.0. A Jian, for example, should stat out like a Longsword.
If a weapon is truly missing, then fill it in.
Lastly, the thing really needs to be considered from 'how can I abuse this?' as all it will take is for one min/max munchkin to show it as broken and people will stay away. What if I take a Monk (who should already be the epitome of a MA class) and thenuse his Feats etc to buy martial arts... how high is this going to stack?
I think there is a great amount of room for a product like this, just don't go down the fanboi path the others have for sooo looong and produce another cheez version of a martial arts style book.
It just p******s off us RL Martial Artist gamers and makes us shake our heads. It just smacks of armchair expertise and drives us spare.
If yuo want to write a good book, consult real martial artists and ask 'so how would THIS work'? We are out there :)
Elven way of the Leaf for the win.
Forgive me if it has already been mentioned, but I would like to see Xingyi Quan.
I would like to see Sojutsu, the "art of the spear".
Ok to come at this another way, how is that not just Spear skill>Focus>Specialisation etc?
Same same Yarijutsu, Kyudo, etc...
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Jousting (preferably with a "Dragon Rider" sidebar)No. Jousting lets you ride an ostrich. Bad guys ride buzzards. And there is the occasional pterodactyl.
I actually just wrote up the Yellow Knight and Blue Knight (Using Axe-Beaks for stats) for a game. :D Cavaliers Order of Lion and Cockatrice...
Not sure what the Evil Knights are going to ride.
-Uriel
Please dont get offended SFD...
Kung fu all styles
tae kwon do
ninjitsuaikido( cant remember how to spell it)
that dance one that was on Fight sceince or some odd ball show that was testing martial arts kicks or something
If nothing else on this thread helped make my point, the above certainly should give an indication as to why I think Martial Arts supplements (as they have been made to date) are pure Gouda.
Seriously, OP, throw out real world styles and let people just build fantasy styles.
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You know who's an absolute master of martial arts? The Pathfinder fighter. As shown by his metric ton of combat feats and his full BAB. Seriously, do you people really think that fighting styles must be named and Asia-inspired or they're worthless?
The fighter is the greatest martial artist in the game. And if they introduce a class that is a superior martial artist, they they are wrong.
must be named and Asia-inspired or they're worthless?
I've just spent the last several pages pointing out why they should move away from current styles (as we know them) and build a whole new system of style building.
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But you know what? Even if you call it "The Way of the Naga" or something, the fighter is STILL the best martial artist in the game, by virtue of his full BAB and plethora of combat feats.
Different combat styles already exist in the game. It's called feat selection. If the combat styles are feat chains, that's cool. Anything that adds additional mechanics beyond feat chains is just kinda pointless, in my less-than-humble opinion.
I think there's a lot of good reasons WHY the book should exist, I am just not a fan of how it has been done in the past - and being very particular about what I am faulting early pioneers on doing.
I'll probably get run out of town on a rail here, but I love the "martial magic" system used in The Book of Nine Swords/Tome of Battle.
Having said that, I echo the sentiments of Epic Meepo and a few others who would love to see rules for creating custom martial arts alongside some that were those that are included in the book. Having them scalable with BAB or level is a great idea, too, rather than having to use a feat slot for everything.
I'll probably get run out of town on a rail here, but I love the "martial magic" system used in The Book of Nine Swords/Tome of Battle.
I read Tome of Battle/Book of Nine Swords, and my immediate reaction was that it was pretty cool and was an interesting update for martial characters. Then I had a player create a martial character, and another one cherry pick for the simple purpose of getting the horrifyingly broken iron heart surge ability.
If it were merely martial maneuvers, I'd only complain that it slows down the game badly. But with the other crud that's in there, my complaint is that it slows down the game badly and includes some really broken stuff.
It's bad enough that I have a druid in the party who is immune to poison and can turn into virtually any creature I've ever thrown at them. It's even worse when there's a druid in the party who is immune to poison, can turn into virtually any creature I've thrown at them, and can nullify pretty much anything that affects her - and that's even with me nerfing the ridiculous WoTC ruling that the entire effect was canceled; I ruled that the effect no longer affected the character rather than being canceled.
So, please please please please ... nothing like Tome of Battle unless it's going to be a bit more balanced and it does not include any of the funky non-magical magic powers like ToB does. If it did not include anything to further bog down combats, well, that would be really keen as well :)
I'll throw my hat in with Aikido, I'm a bit biased in that direction. I've seen many d20 martial arts books and none of them have pulled of the concept of a soft style to my liking, something non-aggressive and based of a defensive fighting (stance) or full defense would be very reflective of the style, imo. I know that's subjective based on experience.
I'm not a Martial Arts fan, and I think that's what drew me to this....
When Considering martial arts for an Rpg, I have to ask myself... doesn't the monk already DO martial arts?
I'm seeing a lot... more than a lot.... of Names... no followup, no description of how useful it could be in game, what it could do different.
As a Dm, I want to be able to look at a page.... Like the Monk archetypes in the APG... and see what they do different from The Vanilla class. " oh hey, this one steals energy, this one is super defensive, and this one is all about archery"
I saw someone talk about a martial art that was all about running up an opponent and flipping them onto the ground... Which sounds awfully like a trip attempt to me. This I think Is the issue... We've got four pages full of potential styles, but in the end, many of them are doing the same things.
So far, Pathfinder has rules for full on attacks, and combat maneuvers like trip/disarm/steal etc. We have a few in-between abilities.... Like Charging or Cleaving... where you take a penalty ( under specific conditions) to get a bonus. I think we need more of the last to fill in our need for martial arts...attacking at a penalty to work in a CMB check..... dropping prone for an attempt at tripping....
IN my honest opinion....
more archetypes for the Figher, Monk, Ranger, Inquisitor..... and PERHAPS rogue and Cavalier would solve just about everything.
oh yeah, and +1 on the non-realistic powers.... while I Dont approve of the Anime Overpowered-ness of the Book of Nine swords... A little Wirefu fits right in with My Druid And Wizard friends. I'd Love to see a Wizard type class with a KI pool that Just specialized in crazy powers.
Here are my two Ören.
1 I think that the addition of martial arts should add something more then a flat bonus to a certain combat maneuver or weapon. Is should be new, interesting, useful and fun to play, like pulling of an awesome throw, preforming deadly counter attacks or growing a new pair of claws.
2 When you work on designing martial arts for PF at least consider using two systems. For the more down-to-earth styles a do-it-yourself systemt seems like a good way to go and from this thread is sounds like something allot of people want. For the more unearthly and inhuman styles, like the awesome idea about fighting styles that match the eight schools of magic, a feat-chain system would allow for a more focused and controlled system.
3 Don't forget about the armed martial arts! I have practised Aikido, and during the training sesion we have gone through the same techniques unarmed and with a Jo or Bokken. Pleas don't make martial arts exclusively for unarmed combatants.
Hope this post makes some sense and that my dyslexia and not being a native English speaker don't inflict to much pain on a read. =)
I thought I posted on this a long time ago, but can't find any posts by me, so here's my post.
1) Don't do martial arts styles. At least, don't do each individual martial arts style. Break it down by type of martial arts style.
Hard Non-Weapon Style
Hard Mixed Style
Hard Weapon Style
Soft Non-Weapon Style
Soft Mixed Style
Soft Weapon Style
If you don't know what hard vs soft is, it basically comes down to whether it's an offensive martial art (the emphasis is on attacking the opponent, like Jeet Kune Do) or whether it's a defensive martial art (the emphasis is on using your opponents power against him, like Tai Chi). Some styles are purely unarmed (Tai Chi), while others are purely weapon oriented (Fencing), and some are mixed (Kung Fu). There are other styles that are neither hard nor soft, so I guess Medium would be a good type as well, a balanced version between hard and soft.
Once you've got those 9 styles done, then place each real world martial art into one of those styles as a paragraph labeled 'Real World Examples' so players understand which one to take for the style of martial arts they want to emulate. Make sure you have something saying that the style is NOT Karate, or Jeet Kune Do, or Pancration, or any of the other umpteen thousand styles. This style is merely representative of that same martial art style. Otherwise, you get arguments from purists. :)
2) Leave room within each of the styles (the 9 above) for some customization. Unless two Karate fighters have the same teacher, they likely have different expressions of that same art. One might favor an open attack and punches, while the other might favor defensive techniques and heavy kicks, and a third might prefer using the bo staff to deliver all his attacks.
I thought I posted on this a long time ago, but can't find any posts by me, so here's my post.
1) Don't do martial arts styles. At least, don't do each individual martial arts style. Break it down by type of martial arts style.
Hard Non-Weapon Style
Hard Mixed Style
Hard Weapon Style
Soft Non-Weapon Style
Soft Mixed Style
Soft Weapon Style...
+1, excellent suggestion.
First;
-- Aikido would be great! Trying to be true to the form; it can transform defence and disarm attempts into throws as an immediate action... Minor damage, but great battlefield control for the monk.[Out of turn retaliation feats created endless broken characters in 3.5, but it can be nerfed.]
Second;
-- Wing Chun is rising with the Ip Man movies, but a Wing Chun like effect can probably be achieved with something like a Greater Flurry of Blows feat... (One more extra attack if it's against the same target)Third;
Powerful monsters and multiarmed monsters SHOULD have a style of their own.-- I'm imagining UFC Styled Power Grapple fighting for Minotaurs and the like, yet power grapple fights require patience under pressure, so it might be for creatures with high wisdom. Maintains grapple for 3 or more rounds; double STR damage each round AND a free unarmed attack to the face?
-- Multiarmed fighters might have a style that allows them multiple combat maneuvers in one attack. It might work like claw,claw,rend. Grapple, if grappled, free disarm or trip or steal attempt with +4 bonus?
Hmm...
YIP, it's YIP Man..... Ive studied Wing Chun for 15 years...yip man is the father of the current recognized form of wing chun as taught by practioners in the US. To learn it, one must be a student of one of the instructors personally taught by Yip or his son.
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When Considering martial arts for an Rpg, I have to ask myself... doesn't the monk already DO martial arts?
He does. But the supreme martial artist of the game is the fighter. He gets as many combat bonus feats as most classes get feats in general, and it's very likely that most of his general feats go towards combat as well. And really, what is martial arts other than excelling in fighting? A lot of poeple tend to associate the term with Asian fighting styles, but it's really a blanket term that covers ANY fighting style.
When Considering martial arts for an Rpg, I have to ask myself... doesn't the monk already DO martial arts?He does. But the supreme martial artist of the game is the fighter. He gets as many combat bonus feats as most classes get feats in general, and it's very likely that most of his general feats go towards combat as well. And really, what is martial arts other than excelling in fighting? A lot of poeple tend to associate the term with Asian fighting styles, but it's really a blanket term that covers ANY fighting style.
+1
I'd also like to see more fighting styles that can work mechanically with one or two feats. For example things like a feat that let someone fight with a buckler and an off hand weapon or a feat that makes fighting with a shield and spear workable. Generic feats with a skill prereq like climb to give a climbing combatant an edge would be good flexible ways to simulate a range of backgrounds like elves fighting in trees, sailors fighting in the rigging, or a dwarven mountaineer who can fight while climbing in caves and mountains. While feats that provide cool crunch to reflect specific cultures and histories in Golorian are cool, I find that more generic feats and traits just tend to be more useful and flexible.
When Considering martial arts for an Rpg, I have to ask myself... doesn't the monk already DO martial arts?He does. But the supreme martial artist of the game is the fighter. He gets as many combat bonus feats as most classes get feats in general, and it's very likely that most of his general feats go towards combat as well. And really, what is martial arts other than excelling in fighting? A lot of poeple tend to associate the term with Asian fighting styles, but it's really a blanket term that covers ANY fighting style.+1
I'd also like to see more fighting styles that can work mechanically with one or two feats. For example things like a feat that let someone fight with a buckler and an off hand weapon or a feat that makes fighting with a shield and spear workable. Generic feats with a skill prereq like climb to give a climbing combatant an edge would be good flexible ways to simulate a range of backgrounds like elves fighting in trees, sailors fighting in the rigging, or a dwarven mountaineer who can fight while climbing in caves and mountains. While feats that provide cool crunch to reflect specific cultures and histories in Golorian are cool, I find that more generic feats and traits just tend to be more useful and flexible.
Have to Agree with Mr. Lovecraftian there..... The Fighter is totally a marital artist, and anyone looking to make a true martial artist character should look to them.
and Bitter thorn gave me ideas..... Martial arts as feats... but feats that work with one another.
Lets say there are two feats.. feat A and feat B.... feat A is part of the Combat Expertise.... B requires power attack... If you have both feat A and feat B, It allows you to perform a special combat maneuver, or adds a bonus to feat A, or something along those lines.
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and Bitter thorn gave me ideas..... Martial arts as feats... but feats that work with one another.
Lets say there are two feats.. feat A and feat B.... feat A is part of the Combat Expertise.... B requires power attack... If you have both feat A and feat B, It allows you to perform a special combat maneuver, or adds a bonus to feat A, or something along those lines.
That's kind of what I was saying. Style of fighting = feat chain.
Here's some "martial arts" styles:
Combat Expertise - Dodge - Mobility - Spring Attack - Whirlwind Attack
Combat Expertise - Improved Trip - Greater Trip
Combat Expertise - Improved Trip - Repositioning Strike
Combat Expertise - Improved Trip - Tripping Strike
Combat Expertise - Improved Trip - Improved Unarmed Strike - Ki Throw - Improved Ki Throw
Dodge - Mobility - Sidestep - Improved Sidestep
Dodge - Wind Stance - Lightning Stance
Improved Unarmed Strike - Improved Grapple - Greater Grapple
Improved Unarmed Strike - Scorpion Style - Gorgon's Fist - Medusa's Wrath -
Improved Unarmed Strike - Stunning Fist
Improved Unarmed Strike - Touch of Serenity
Mounted Combat - Ride-By Attack - Spirited Charge
Mounted Combat - Trick Riding - Mounted Skirmisher
Mounted Combat - Power Attack - Improved Bull Rush - Unseat
Power Attack - Improved Bull Rush - Bull Rush Strike
Power Attack - Improved Bull Rush - Greater Bull Rush
Power Attack - Improved Drag - Greater Drag
Power Attack - Improved Overrun - Charge Through
Power Attack - Improved Overrun - Greater Overrun
Shield Proficiency - Improved Shield Bash - Two-Weapon Fighting - Shield Slam - Shield Master - Bashing Finish
Step Up - Following Step - Step Up and Strike
Two-Weapon Fighting - Double Slice - Two-Weapon Rend
Two-Weapon Fighting - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Vital Strike - Improved Vital Strike - Greater Vital Strike
Weapon Focus - Dazzling Display - Shatter Defenses - Greater Weapon Focus - Deadly Stroke
Weapon Focus - Penetrating Strike - Greater Penetrating Strike
Something based entirely off of improvised weapons. Nobody messes with a monk wielding a ladder.
