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Sunder Me Timbers!


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Dark Archive

OK, I was lucky enough to have a great GM explain some of the PFS Sunder rules to me (thanks Ziz!), but alas, I was wondering...

Can a PCs gear be sundered in PFS play, and assuming the answer is yes, what happens to that gear?

I read in an earlier thread that gear found during a scenario ends up on the sheet at the end of the adventure, regardless of whether or not it was sundered during the scenario. But what about gear the PC has on him, that may get sundered by an enemy during an encounter?

I know some GMs don't particularly like things like sunder, so before I go around breaking things, I was wondering what might happen to my own broken stuff!

Paizo Employee ** Developer

Repairing sundered gear (or throwing it away if it's completely destroyed) would be noted on the "items bought/conditions cleared" section of a player's Chronicle. If you choose not to fix the broken equipment, you'd denote that your scimitar now has the "broken" condition in the "items sold/conditions gained" section of the Chronicle.

In general, though, sundering people's gear is something that should be reserved for NPCs who specifically call for that in their tactics.

Dark Archive

Mark Moreland wrote:

Repairing sundered gear (or throwing it away if it's completely destroyed) would be noted on the "items bought/conditions cleared" section of a player's Chronicle. If you choose not to fix the broken equipment, you'd denote that your scimitar now has the "broken" condition in the "items sold/conditions gained" section of the Chronicle.

In general, though, sundering people's gear is something that should be reserved for NPCs who specifically call for that in their tactics.

Very good sir, thank you for the quick reply!

*Hefts axe, off to adventure...*

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

Mark Moreland wrote:
In general, though, sundering people's gear is something that should be reserved for NPCs who specifically call for that in their tactics.

Or when all six of the players at your table are only equipped with their Heirloom Weapons. ;-)

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TwilightKnight wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
In general, though, sundering people's gear is something that should be reserved for NPCs who specifically call for that in their tactics.
Or when all six of the players at your table are only equipped with their Heirloom Weapons. ;-)

Or are all wearing wayfinders equipped with clear spindles ioun stones! lol


Note that most sundered items (including magic items, to a point) can be repaired with a Make Whole spell. So it's not the end of the world.

Dark Archive

hogarth wrote:
Note that most sundered items (including magic items, to a point) can be repaired with a Make Whole spell. So it's not the end of the world.

You can use Mending to a certain extent, too, right?

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

In PFS i have a barbarian that likes to sunder the enemies weapons and armor. When i first made this character i was told that the gear i destroyed didn't effect the end result of gold for the party. Then i went to a convention game and was doing my thing and the DM piped up saying that the groups max gold at the end would be affected, and having the no jerks ruling loudly whispered between the other players i opted out of breaking stuff. I have a smasher barbarian, and at this point i'm questioning if i should use him again, have the option to rebuild from faulty information, or run him as intended.

Grand Lodge ** Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

meta4one wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Note that most sundered items (including magic items, to a point) can be repaired with a Make Whole spell. So it's not the end of the world.
You can use Mending to a certain extent, too, right?

To the extent that the item weighs up to 1 pound per caster level and (if destroyed) wasn't magical, yes. It's got a lot better since 3.5.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Lord wrote:
the DM piped up saying that the groups max gold at the end would be affected

This is absolutely wrong. It has been made clear on numerous occasions that PCs that sunder enemy equipment do not affect the gold rewards at the end. OTOH, smashing the enemy's stuff will make it unavailable for use during the scenario. Sundering is being evaluated the same as consumable items being used during a scenario.

That being said, sundering is a very sensitive subject. To my knowledge, there has only been one case of an NPC spec'd with sunder tactics, so it is definitely rare. But consider this. The more players do it, the more likely it will appear in monster tactics in future scenarios. Personally, I think sunder is just as acceptable as any other combat maneuver, but since soo many players thing otherwise, I caution anyone who does it, especially if you have an entire character build around it. Tred there at your own risk.

Liberty's Edge ****

I've seen sunder specifically called out in NPC tactics three times as I recall. Two were NPC fighters with a moderate investment towards it and another was a large/huge earth elemental.

Scarab Sages

OOhh i have no doubts that if i do it it could be done to me, in fact some of my characters would dread to hear a call to sunder. but the barbarian likes to use it on BBG or a flourish to intimidate the lesser mooks "I just destroyed your shield, weapon, and armor. Take a knee or I break you too!" Yea ever since that incident where he told me i would be effecting end gold, i haven't played him because of of it.

Scarab Sages

and also juju zombies ;) love to DM them hate to fight without high + weapons

* Star Voter 2013

In general it's really easy to repair most broken gear. Any 3rd level caster can repair a +1 sword or +1 armor (with Mending level 0 spell), and single Make Whole spell is needed if the item is broken.

Since we have an indeterminate amount of time between scenarios, I don't see why these things can't be repaired.

*

Just played in

scenario name redacted to protect the un-played yet:
Murder on the Throaty Mermaid
two weeks ago or so; our cleric made many failed reflex saves... rust monsters ate his +1 Breastplate, +1 shield and his longsword... We all cried for him, but there wasn't much we could do because nobody had mending/make whole prepared to fix it during the combat. (Out of character I also laughed a bit 'cause my level 3 druid was in melee as well... with dragonhide armor, a darkwood shield and a club... Made me VERY happy that druids can't wear metal armor).

At the end he got all three pieces as "destroyed by rust monster" in conditions gained.

Liberty's Edge ****

All I can say to that is that Silversheen, from the Qadira book IIRC, is your friend...

Although it wouldn't have helped the armor or shield...

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Tucson aka Sir_Wulf

While playing From Shore to Sea...

Spoiler:
My barbarian oracle was surprised by an entire pack of rust monsters, which beat him on initiative as well. They tore the crap out of his magic weapons and armor. I was not a happy camper.


Jason S wrote:

In general it's really easy to repair most broken gear. Any 3rd level caster can repair a +1 sword or +1 armor (with Mending level 0 spell), and single Make Whole spell is needed if the item is broken.

Since we have an indeterminate amount of time between scenarios, I don't see why these things can't be repaired.

Not quite. Make Whole says it can fix destroyed magic items if your caster level is twice the CL of the item. "+X" items have a CL of 3X. So to use Make Whole to repair a completely destroyed +1 longsword, for example, the caster must have a caster level of 6 or higher. Yes, that means it's impossible to use Make Whole to repair destroyed +4 or +5 items...

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015 aka WalterGM

Bob Jonquet wrote:


That being said, sundering is a very sensitive subject. To my knowledge, there has only been one case of an NPC spec'd with sunder tactics, so it is definitely rare. But consider this. The more players do it, the more likely it will appear in monster tactics in future scenarios. Personally, I think sunder is just as acceptable as any other combat maneuver, but since soo many players thing otherwise, I caution anyone who does it, especially if you have an entire character build around it. Tred there at your own risk.

I haven't seen much of it either, however I was shocked to see that...

Spoiler:

In The Sanos Abduction there is a flock of pugwampi gremlins who
4-05 wrote:
If the pegasus is near defeat, the gremlins emerge and cast shatter on the weapons of any melee-based PCs.

Guess they're bringing that tactic back!

The Exchange *

My axe was melted by a Rhemoraz. I kept me fine, new, +1 Dwarven Warclub, but never bothered ta' get it fixed. Just bought meself a nice adamantine one!

***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't remember the exact scenario(s) but there have been a number of faction missions which have asked for things to be destroyed - I played them didn't yet run them so I don't know if they specifically required objects be sundered but it certainly helped in at least one case that we had a Dragon Disciple wielding an Adamantine weapon... let's just say he can sunder with the best of them...


Walter Sheppard wrote:
I haven't seen much of it either, however I was shocked to see that...** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Shatter only works against non-magical objects, so it doesn't strike me as a big deal. One (minimum caster level) Make Whole spell later, and the object is as good as new.
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