Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

RPG Superstar 2015

Advice on a Heavens Oracle


Advice


I'd like some advice on optimizing a Heavens Oracle for a Kingmaker Game. We are a small group, only three people including me, so I'd really like to have this character pack a punch.

The other two players are a Human Barbarian and a Human Witch.

Starting level is 3, and we use a 30 point buy. The DM is open to using 3.5 books on a case by case basis.

I plan on making this character human, for the extra spells favored class ability, although I am open to playing something else if it looks good.
I'm mainly looking for advice on which spells to pick up, immediately and in the long run; I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to clerical spells and spontaneous casters; wizards are my preferred class to play.

In addition, I'd like some tips on feats; outside of Extra Revelation, nothing is really popping out at me.

Thanks :)


One dirty trick is to get the awesome display revelation and sorcerer levels. Color spray gets really, really nasty when it can effect any target with a level less than or equal to 4 + cha mod.


Any reason you went with the Heavens Mystery? It doesn't have many "must haves" when it comes to revelations.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Charender wrote:
One dirty trick is to get the awesome display revelation and sorcerer levels. Color spray gets really, really nasty when it can effect any target with a level less than or equal to 4 + cha mod.

No need for Sor Color Spray is the bonus spell granted by the Mystery at level 2.


Mad Alchemist wrote:
Charender wrote:
One dirty trick is to get the awesome display revelation and sorcerer levels. Color spray gets really, really nasty when it can effect any target with a level less than or equal to 4 + cha mod.
No need for Sor Color Spray is the bonus spell granted by the Mystery at level 2.

Even better...


Doc Cosmic wrote:
Any reason you went with the Heavens Mystery? It doesn't have many "must haves" when it comes to revelations.

I chose Heavens for the battlefield control it offers; since our group only has three people, I thought that the ability to disable some of the opponents would help with survival. Unless I'm mistaken, Heavens is really the only Mystery that can do that effectively.

Really though, I'm open to suggestions as far as Mysteries go; Heaven is my first choice, followed closely by Lore (in my mind, an oracle should, by its very nature, be focused on Divination).


Here are some suggestions. Because your spell list overlaps with your witch, make sure you guys don’t overlap. The best spells, for you, are either going to serve multiple purpose (like “Summon Monster” “Bless of” and “Channel Vigor”) or are really good at blowing things up (which neither you nor the witch have many of). Be truly sever about spell selection, (1: qualitative) how useful is it, (2: quantitative) how often will I use it.

Spell Lists:

1: Bless, Command, Divine Favor (luck bonus), Dream Feast (because it is a kingmaker game), Magic Weapon, Sanctuary, Summon Monster

2: Admonishing Ray (an almost offensive spell), Ancestral Communion, Bull’s Strngth/ Eagles Splendor, etc., Hold Person, Resist Energy, Shatter, Shield Other (be your barbarian’s healing battery), Silence (nerf the other spell casters), Spiritual Weapon (is awesome), Summon Monster, Weapon of Awe

3: Channel the Gift, Channel Vigor (almost a must), Dispel Magic (a must), Meld into Stone, Protection from Energy, Searing Light, Summon Monster

4: Air Walk, Blessing of Fervor, Divine Power, Freedom of Movement, Holy Smite, Restoration, Summon Monster, Spiritual Ally,

Well, in regards to feats, my first thought was to take the “heavy armor” proficiency. Neither a Barbarian nor a Witch are known for possessing a high AC. This lead to my second thought: two levels of Paladin. Once your DM realizes the mistake of making you guys into superheroes, you may start to face some really nasty stuff. With your high Charisma and the fact you’ll probably be near the frontline, you can have CHA added to attack, saves, and AC, which means you’ll outlast everything and everyone. Plus, you’ll have heavy armor proficiency, as well as shields.

As far as feats, combat casting is a must since you are a front line caster. Improved Initiative is always nice. With your witch, talk about tactics. You guys actually might work well with teamwork feats like “allied spell-caster” and “shielded caster”. You may also really consider some combat chain of feat like Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, etc. A cleric is a fighter, a holy warrior. If you are more comfortable as a caster, then think about really augmenting your “summon monster” spells with “augmented summons” to add umph the meat shield your providing your barbarian.

Skills. Given your charisma, max out your social skills and UMD. Kingmaker can be heavy role-play if you do it correctly.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sayer_of_Nay wrote:
Doc Cosmic wrote:
Any reason you went with the Heavens Mystery? It doesn't have many "must haves" when it comes to revelations.

I chose Heavens for the battlefield control it offers; since our group only has three people, I thought that the ability to disable some of the opponents would help with survival. Unless I'm mistaken, Heavens is really the only Mystery that can do that effectively.

Really though, I'm open to suggestions as far as Mysteries go; Heaven is my first choice, followed closely by Lore (in my mind, an oracle should, by its very nature, be focused on Divination).

Well, the Witch is a fantastic battlefield controller. (S)he gets all the goodies: mists, glitter, black tentacles of inappropriate grasping. In addition, he class abilities are all buffs and debuffs. Making her the optimum battlefield controller. (S)he can also summon monsters, giving your party "phantom tanks" to soak up hp damage.

The Barbarian is a fantastic striker, giving wonderful damage output, and can keep some things occupied.

So, your team can really use a character that has some heals...Oracle is a great choice. But it sounds like you could also use a tankish type, creating three good options for your character: Cleric, Oracle, Paladin.

As you have chosen Oracle (and a fantastic choice I might add), you really only need to be able to help with post-combat repair. The witch can perform this task also, but with most of her spells going to battlefield control (the classes specialty), that means you will want to fill that "healer" gap. Oracles get the cure spells for free and can spontaneously cast them. Glorious. You can fill the remaining gap needed by the party with a side benefit of your class.

So, the real question is... what do you want your character to do?

-- My suggestion is to take a tanker-type oracle to help keep the baddies off the witch who is going to be casting the battlefield controls. As you said, there are three people in your party, if two of you are casting battlefield controls, that leaves one party member to keep all of the baddies off the two casters. That is just not logistically possible. If your GM throws 4 baddies at you, the chances (on average) that the barbarian will hold them all at bay for the casters to get their spells off, are slim.
If there are two of you to form a "wall" in front of the caster while she casts, she can get a couple rounds of spells off before any monster can threaten her. Especially, if you go for a combat-control oracle using trips to keep the baddies on the ground, for the barbarian to pound on, and to keep them away from the witch.

Wow, this is much longer than I thought it would be, sorry about that. So, what do you want to play (and not what you think will be best for the party)?


Doc Cosmic wrote:

Well, the Witch is a fantastic battlefield controller. (S)he gets all the goodies: mists, glitter, black tentacles of inappropriate grasping. In addition, he class abilities are all buffs and debuffs. Making her the optimum battlefield controller. (S)he can also summon monsters, giving your party "phantom tanks" to soak up hp damage.

The Barbarian is a fantastic striker, giving wonderful damage output, and can keep some things occupied.

So, your team can really use a character that has some heals...Oracle is a great choice. But it sounds like you could also use a tankish type, creating three good options for your character: Cleric, Oracle, Paladin.

As you have chosen Oracle (and a fantastic choice I might add), you really only need to be able to help with post-combat repair. The witch can perform this task also, but with most of her spells going to battlefield control (the classes specialty), that means you will want to fill that "healer" gap. Oracles get the cure spells for free and can spontaneously cast them. Glorious. You can fill the remaining gap needed by the party with a side benefit of your class.

So, the real question is... what do you want your character to do?

-- My suggestion is to take a tanker-type oracle to help keep the baddies off the witch who is going to be casting the battlefield controls. As you said, there are three people in your...

Have to agree with the comments about the witch. I believe it's probably the most powerful class in the game. It's essentially a class that has wizard control spell capability stacked with healing and then stacked with powerful buffs and debuffs.

Going back to the Oracle, as mentioned the heavens plus awesome display is pretty potent combination. Alternatively, a Battle Oracle with a dip of a level or 2 in barbarian is potent when you take the lame curse. The Battle revelations are very powerful for melee topped off with barbarian rage without suffering fatigue plus spellcasting in between raging is very nice.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Gnome heaven Oracles decimate anything affected by mind spells. 20 Cha, feats spell focus illusion, greater; spell penetration, greater, and Widen spell (in that order). In undead-heavy campaigns take the Golatian feat that lets you mind-affect undead. Color spray should be good till 10ish, Rainbow Pattern from there. Otherwise take good buff spells to help melée when the color spray (DC 19 at 3rd level, and steadily increasing to about 22 by 8th) is not "the right call", and wait for party members to whine about how overpowered you are :).


Yes, you are right... Heavens Color Spray is probably the most effective battlefied control early on. But as others have pointed out, the witch is (in my opinion also) the best BFC in the game currently. Also the barb is going to be lonely in the melee.

As others have said the Oracle of Battle (or nature or life) would be better in melee (and for this group otherwise also). However if you really wish to play Oracle of Heavens, its ok. I would get a decent STR & DEX and use Long Spear (& get Combat Reflexes) in order to help barb in the close combat & protect yourself & witch. TheDoctor did a very good list of the useful spells in the situation. I would always consider what is best for the barb first (throw boosts & heals to barb not to yourself) when picking up the spells as if he is downed you both will be in trouble. I'm also personally fan of Shield Other. Also I would point out Spiritual Weapon especilly in this case as you have very limited ranged capability. Hopefully witch throws Enlarge Person regularly...

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Early on? -8 to your hd at level 8 makes it stay that way pretty easily; and rainbow pattern/hypno take over. Witches can't reach their DCs, and you also gain a wall-of-force bridge for blocking off enimes. And a full spell complement. In my mind the witch just can't keep up with a Heaven Oracle as a controller; nobody can.

Nature takes the place (almost totally) of the "control Druid"), since they get the animal companion and summon spells and even the ability to dump dex
Like no other. Battle oracles can fight OK, but honestly battle Druids or even clerics do better; Oracles are best served as "straight control", and for that heaven and nature do far better than the rest.


Thalin wrote:

Early on? -8 to your hd at level 8 makes it stay that way pretty easily; and rainbow pattern/hypno take over. Witches can't reach their DCs, and you also gain a wall-of-force bridge for blocking off enimes. And a full spell complement. In my mind the witch just can't keep up with a Heaven Oracle as a controller; nobody can.

Nature takes the place (almost totally) of the "control Druid"), since they get the animal companion and summon spells and even the ability to dump dex
Like no other. Battle oracles can fight OK, but honestly battle Druids or even clerics do better; Oracles are best served as "straight control", and for that heaven and nature do far better than the rest.

Witches can get to the same DC an Oracle can, so that isn't the issue. Remember, the awesome display only ups the number of hit dice affected, it does not change the DC. Color Spray, while being a very nice spell, requires metamagic to be slightly safer, as opposed to the very risky it can be to use in combat. 15ft is not a lot of wiggle room. In addition, there is the matter of making sure not to affect the rest of your party with it, etc etc. I have found that other spells can be more helpful in most circumstances. [However, there was this one time there was a commoner revolt outside a palace my character had to get to, so I had him Color Spray out a straight line to the gates. The rest of the revolt seemed to dissipate after that lol]

Rainbow Pattern is a nice AE and BFC, with good range. Of course, you don't want to put all your BFC hopes into one set of spells, and that is what the Heaven's Mystery does. You are locked into being a pattern illusionist master for your effective BFC, and other than those, have absolutely little to offer than any other caster, except with a restricted and small spell list, making the cleric a better BFC choice.

That moonlight bridge really needs an errata. The way I enforce its use is as a bridge, therefore, it may only be laid down in a way to be crossed/walked on. You can't turn it into a wall, like so many people like to suggest. The final sentence states that "should the bridge be attacked, treat it as a wall of force", no where in the description does it say "for all intents and purposes, this is a wall of force." Furthermore, it makes little to no sense that a first level character would be given a level 5 spell as a class ability that can be cast CHA times per day.

I am also going to disagree about the Battle Oracle being inferior to a Regular Cleric in terms of combat potential. Battle Oracle easily exceeds a regular cleric's capabilities. Heck, even taking Extra Revelation to take the Weapon Mastery Revelation nets you three feats for the price of one, of which, all three are fantastic and free up the base feats for other precious things that can be useful.

EDIT: Wrote about Prismatic Spray instead of the Care Bear Stare (Rainbow Pattern) not sure why.....

Dark Archive

I agree with you RB should be errata; but it is the way it is.

And don't think they are one-trick wonders; they get that trick for free; they still have a full spell list. And unlike the Mage there is a small selection of solid cleric spells (mostly heals and buffs), so the sorcery selection is usually an advantage, not disadvantage.

I do heart witches overall, but the heaven oracle gets insane save-or-dies and good spells otherwise. Battle Oracles maybe I need to see one properly built, I just haven't been impressed with all the ones running around the society.


Thalin wrote:
Early on?

I meant Color Spray is probably the most effective battlefied control early on from all spells. Then all classes will get stronger spells.

Thalin wrote:
Witches can't reach their DCs, and you also gain a wall-of-force bridge for blocking off enimes. And a full spell complement. In my mind the witch just can't keep up with a Heaven Oracle as a controller; nobody can.

Yes they do good BFCs. Not going to argue Oracle - Witch in that sense now... However I meaned that its hard to make witch to do anything useful to protect Witch & Oracle from melee. So since witch is apparently locked, I would try to put some self defence abilities to Oracle. I think 2 chars in 3 char party almost completely dependant on spells is a severe liability. I could make Heavens Oracle in sucj group, but I wouldn't put effort to BFC.

Thalin wrote:

Nature takes the place (almost totally) of the "control Druid"), since they get the animal companion and summon spells and even the ability to dump dex

Like no other.

Yes, I was thinking that, if he wants to make an Oracle & controller, it would be good if a companion could be a roadblock.

Thalin wrote:
Battle oracles can fight OK, but honestly battle Druids or even clerics do better;

Now I think that companion is perhaps the most powerful ability (especially in small groups), so druid in that sense would be better. Otherwise I think Oracle of Battle would match for those.


So the general consensus is that I should focus more on beating fools up instead of BFC? I guess I can see the benefit of it, but the problem is that most of the Oracle Mysteries either bore me (battle) or are just lame (nature). Honestly, I want to try the Oracle, but there are few options that actually interest me.


Sayer_of_Nay wrote:
So the general consensus is that I should focus more on beating fools up instead of BFC? I guess I can see the benefit of it, but the problem is that most of the Oracle Mysteries either bore me (battle) or are just lame (nature). Honestly, I want to try the Oracle, but there are few options that actually interest me.

There may be some conflict between (1) what's optimal for the party, and (2) what you want and (3) what you like. Age old problem for roleplayers and people who have favored classes.

You stated you chose Heavens because of the battlefield control. Well, the spell lists of Druids and wizards are superior to that of the Cleric's spell list (excluding domains). An Oracle BFC is going to be ultimately disappointing to you I think.

If you want a 1) battlefield controller, 2) divine caster, 3) sociable PC, then take a look at the Urban Druid with the Charm Domain. You'd have evocations (making up for the witch's weakness) and battlefield control at each level. Alternatively, maybe your DM may let you substitute the cleric's spell list with the Druid. Don't discount the Nature Mystery; the first 6 revelations are nice and effective.

Rather than ask the boards for optimal, why don't you you give us some more description of your character concept. We can then optimize within that framework. Who is your PC? What's the personality? What's the flavor of the role? Outside of pure mechanics, what's the character concept (not mechanic concept)?


TheDoctor wrote:
Sayer_of_Nay wrote:
So the general consensus is that I should focus more on beating fools up instead of BFC? I guess I can see the benefit of it, but the problem is that most of the Oracle Mysteries either bore me (battle) or are just lame (nature). Honestly, I want to try the Oracle, but there are few options that actually interest me.

There may be some conflict between (1) what's optimal for the party, and (2) what you want and (3) what you like. Age old problem for roleplayers and people who have favored classes.

You stated you chose Heavens because of the battlefield control. Well, the spell lists of Druids and wizards are superior to that of the Cleric's spell list (excluding domains). An Oracle BFC is going to be ultimately disappointing to you I think.

If you want a 1) battlefield controller, 2) divine caster, 3) sociable PC, then take a look at the Urban Druid with the Charm Domain. You'd have evocations (making up for the witch's weakness) and battlefield control at each level. Alternatively, maybe your DM may let you substitute the cleric's spell list with the Druid. Don't discount the Nature Mystery; the first 6 revelations are nice and effective.

Rather than ask the boards for optimal, why don't you you give us some more description of your character concept. We can then optimize within that framework. Who is your PC? What's the personality? What's the flavor of the role? Outside of pure mechanics, what's the character concept (not mechanic concept)?

Truthfully, I have no character concept in mind; I tend to find a mechanic concept, and then build up from there. I picked oracle because it can heal, and serve as a tank if properly buffed. The BFC of the Heavens Oracle was just icing on the cake; having the option to do a little BFC appeals.

As for the Nature mystery, I fail to see what's so great about it. Most of its abilities seem very meh. IMO, of course.


Sayer_of_Nay wrote:
As for the Nature mystery, I fail to see what's so great about it. Most of its abilities seem very meh. IMO, of course.

Well its mostly about companion, as it can do the tanking. Then CHA to AC is also great for a tank.


Quote:
Truthfully, I have no character concept in mind; I tend to find a mechanic concept, and then build up from there. I picked oracle because it can heal, and serve as a tank if properly buffed. The BFC of the Heavens Oracle was just icing on the cake; having the option to do a little BFC appeals.

Well, if your primary goal is a healing tank, then the internal structure of the Paladin and Battle Oracle would fill that goal more effortlessly than Heaven's Oracle. But, yes, as Heaven's Oracle, focus your feats and spells on "beating up fools" and "buffing", though I wouldn't call the Ancient Litch Umber Dragon a fool to its face or within scrying distance.

Quote:
As for the Nature mystery, I fail to see what's so great about it. Most of its abilities seem very meh. IMO, of course.

Sure, everyone has their own tastes and own takes on things. Plus discussing it would be, perhaps, a little off topic. See off topic discussion below:

1) Bonded Mount = TANK
2) Erosion Touch = very effective sunder. Do you dislike that wall, you make it disappear with a touch. You may make the barbarian cry.
3) Friend to Animals = more tanks, more spells known, frees up spell slots for other creamy cleric spells (aka don't have to memorize summon monster).
4) Life Leach = Vampiric Touch with HP that lasts for hours. Want to really up your HP total? Summon monster and take its HP as a buff before a battle. Makes you a more viable tank.
5) Natural Divination. Variable uses, always nice IMO. Take Cha to one of your weak saves? Occasionally make a skill check that even baffles the Witch?
6) Nature's Whispers. CHA for AC DEX? Yes, please. Now you don't need heavy armor proficiency if you've maxed CHA.


Quote:
As for the Nature mystery, I fail to see what's so great about it. Most of its abilities seem very meh. IMO, of course.

Sure, everyone has their own tastes and own takes on things. Plus discussing it would be, perhaps, a little off topic. See off topic discussion below:

1) Bonded Mount = TANK
2) Erosion Touch = very effective sunder. Do you dislike that wall, you make it disappear with a touch. You may make the barbarian cry.
3) Friend to Animals = more tanks, more spells known, frees up spell slots for other creamy cleric spells (aka don't have to memorize summon monster).
4) Life Leach = Vampiric Touch with HP that lasts for hours. Want to really up your HP total? Summon monster and take its HP as a buff before a battle. Makes you a more viable tank.
5) Natural Divination. Variable uses, always nice IMO. Take Cha to one of your weak saves? Occasionally make a skill check that even baffles the Witch?
6) Nature's Whispers. CHA for AC DEX? Yes, please. Now you don't need heavy armor proficiency if you've maxed CHA.

You make some interesting points. I guess what bugs me about the nature mystery is how circumstantial its abilities are compared to the other mysteries:

1. You get an animal companion, which is neat, but it is limited to a horse or camel. Frankly, neither of those are high on the awesome scale when it comes to animal companions. What's worse, a horse, more than most other companions, are restricted as far as terrain; dungeons are a no-no, as are any area that requires stairs to ascend or descend.

2. Friend to Animal doesn't actually add summon nature's ally to your spells known; you must use your extremely limited number of spells known to pick the spells up, making it not so appealing to me.

3. I guess the real rub is that Nature Oracles aren't really that attuned to nature. They still use the cleric spell list, which is 80% healing and buffing. Relatively few of its spells deal with the natural world in a significant way.

Now, I'm not suggesting to the class should just be a spontaneous version of the druid. And I'm not trying to say the mystery is bad. It just doesn't sit right with me.

Also, a question about Nature's Whispers: it seems that for all intents and purposes, it is the same as the Lore Mysteries Sidestep Secret. But Nature's Whispers only affects AC, whereas Sidestep Secret affects AC and Reflex saves. Is that intentional or an oversight?


Sayer_of_Nay wrote:


Quote:
As for the Nature mystery, I fail to see what's so great about it. Most of its abilities seem very meh. IMO, of course.

Sure, everyone has their own tastes and own takes on things. Plus discussing it would be, perhaps, a little off topic. See off topic discussion below:

1) Bonded Mount = TANK
2) Erosion Touch = very effective sunder. Do you dislike that wall, you make it disappear with a touch. You may make the barbarian cry.
3) Friend to Animals = more tanks, more spells known, frees up spell slots for other creamy cleric spells (aka don't have to memorize summon monster).
4) Life Leach = Vampiric Touch with HP that lasts for hours. Want to really up your HP total? Summon monster and take its HP as a buff before a battle. Makes you a more viable tank.
5) Natural Divination. Variable uses, always nice IMO. Take Cha to one of your weak saves? Occasionally make a skill check that even baffles the Witch?
6) Nature's Whispers. CHA for AC DEX? Yes, please. Now you don't need heavy armor proficiency if you've maxed CHA.

You make some interesting points. I guess what bugs me about the nature mystery is how circumstantial its abilities are compared to the other mysteries:

1. You get an animal companion, which is neat, but it is limited to a horse or camel. Frankly, neither of those are high on the awesome scale when it comes to animal companions. What's worse, a horse, more than most other companions, are restricted as far as terrain; dungeons are a no-no, as are any area that requires stairs to ascend or descend.

2. Friend to Animal doesn't actually add summon nature's ally to your spells known; you must use your extremely limited number of spells known to pick the spells up, making it not so appealing to me.

3. I guess the real rub is that Nature Oracles aren't really that attuned to nature. They still use the cleric spell list, which is 80% healing and buffing. Relatively few of its spells deal with the natural world in a significant way.

Now, I'm...

1. Don't take animal companion until level 7. Then you can choose any large sized animal companion (read that as take the Rhinocerous..I love Rhinos..I have one for my paladin). For a druid I made, I took a Roc, and took all companion buffs, nothing like a Roc with lockjaw and greater magic fang, swooping in and tearing apart your foes, while you rain "death from above" with spells. So yeah, my response to that is, just don't take the ability at level 1, wait until your free feat at level 7, and take Extra Revelation (Bonded Mount), then choose any large sized mount.

2. I am in agreement for the *most* part. Summon Monster of the same level as summon nature's ally is almost universally better. There are a couple of exceptions though . .

3. That is your opinion on the "fluff" of the class. Regardless of if I agree or not, your opinion is 100% valid and correct. :)

I will show you a built BFC Battle Oracle in a bit, I have to find it :)

Dark Archive

In general, control Oracles, especially in PFS, are gnomes. They get their capstone ability for their curse at 10th level, which is quite handy (again, for PFS especially), and Con/Cha are all one of these oracles need (especially if you are nature and can tank Dex). So you get a Wolf tank (trip; truthfully I believe only at 7 and 8 can the cat be considered better than the wolf), and can sit back and summon armies. Basically a Druid with access to the generally better cleric spells AND the good bard buffs. I'm a huge fan of this build, if only because the summon line is very powerful and yet gain access to a dump stat nobody else can really dump (dex). Oh, and their conpanion/summons even get + their Cha to saves so can't be locked down.


Battle Oracle/Clouded Vision/Human
20 point buy: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16 (+2 racial)
Traits (if allowed) Reactionary (+2 initiative), {player choice}

****Level 1 [FC Bonus +1hp]
Revelation: Skill-at-Arms
Feats: Extra Revelation (War Sight), (H)Improved Initiative
Spells: Cure Light Wounds (free), 2 of player choice.
- Notes: So, get yourself some plate armor and a light shield for a level 1 AC of 21. Get yourself a flail, it will be your bestest friend in the coming levels. Otherwise, with trait bonus you are rocking a +7 to initiative AND you get to roll twice taking the better result. This means, you are tanky and most likely get to go first in the round (or delay until a baddie moves into range, and use your flail for combat BFC..will get to that in two levels.

****Level 2 [FC Bonus +1hp]
Mystery Spell (enlarge person- doesn't have to be you)
- Notes: nothing too special here, another spell for the day, a point of BAB, doing well for the moment, lets keep going :) Oh hey, if you hadn't noticed if you enlarge yourself, your flail become 2d6 damage (one-handed greatswords are nice).

****Level 3 [FC Bonus +1hp]
Revelation: Weapon Mastery (Flail)
Feat: Blind Fight (to work with blind-sense and fog cloud later)
Spell: pick one that you like :)
- Notes: We got weapon focus for our flail, increasing our ability to use CMBs with the flail, not bad. It also helps us when hitting with our regular attacks, so excellent all around.

****Level 4 [FC Bonus pick 1 first level oracle spell]
Stat Increase: Charisma (really not much other choice)
Mystery Spell: Fog Cloud
Spells: Cure Moderate (free) plus a 2nd level spell of your choice.

****Level 5 [FC Bonus pick 1 first level oracle spell]
Curse: I can see farther! yay.
Feat: Extra Revelation: Maneuver Mastery (Disarm)
Spells: pick a 1st and a 2nd to add to your list.
- Notes: We take this revelation 2 levels early becuase, well we want it to be in place for when level 7 hits, and we want trip at that level also. We are better at disarming, so lets boost that up first. Normal CMB +7, Flail CMB +8, Disarm CMB +12

****Level 6 [FC Bonus pick 1 second level oracle spell]
Mystery Spell: Magic Vestment (sweet, saves us some money in the short run)
Spells: Hello 3rd level spell of player choice, and Cure Serious.
- Notes: the character is really starting to fill out now, getting many spells per day that can charge/repair the party, and a great ability to set the barbarian up for major SMASH (it makes him smile).

****Level 7 [FC Bonus pick 1 second level oracle spell]
Revelation: Maneuver Mastery (Trip)
Feat: Defensive Combat Training
Spells: pick a first, second and third level spell.
- Notes: Our Revelations really start to benefit us now.
(1) War Sight - you act last in a surprise round if you fail to notice the ambush, if you do notice the ambush, you go normally.
(2) Maneuver Mastery grants us a free feat, but since we have that twice, we pick up Improved Disarm AND Improved Trip for FREE. oh yeah. Normal CMB + 9, Flail CMB +10, Trip CMB (flail) +13, Disarm CMB (flail) +15. You read that correct, you are level 7 with a +15 to disarm, that is awesome, and it only gets better. So, you are close to the effectiveness of a fighter with trip and disarm, with the added benefit that you have spells.
(3) Taking Defensive Combat Training, means that anyone trying to reciprecate your disarms back on you, will have a large hurdle to overcome.

****Level 8 [FC Bonus pick 1 third level oracle spell]
Stat Increase: Charisma +1, CHA is now 18, adjust every accordingly
Mystery Spell: Wall of Fire (not the best BFC, but one that can split the enemy)
Spells: pick a 4th level, and don't forget Cure Critical is free
- Notes: Our Weapon Mastery Revelation has improved, give yourself Improved Critical (flail) for free.

OK, without boring you anymore than I already have.

At level 10 you have righteous might, blind sense, blind-fighting and fog cloud. This lets you blanket the area in fog. Blind Sense tells you where your victims are. Blind-fighting allows you to move more than 5 feet to your enemy, and then you can beat them silly. Its a nice combination of abilities.

In addition, just with those revelations, you will end up getting near the same number of feats as a fighter does. Sure you are combat specialized to using CMBs, but hey, your CMBs are better. At level 10: Max Attack Bonus (flail) +11, Normal CMB +11, CMB (flail) +12, Trip CMB (flail) +16, Disarm CMB (flail) +18.

Hopefully I have shown that a battle oracle is not a waste of time. Now, if that doesn't sound like what you want to play. That is kewl also :) But with a Battle Oracle: you can control with your spells, and you can control with your weapon, AND you can melee with your weapon. So, you at least have plenty of options.

************************ Disclaimer: I am not in anyway shape or form saying that this is the most optimized, awesome oracle to have ever graced the paizo boards. Nor am I saying that any battle oracle must be built in this manner to be successful. This build is entirely meant as an example of why Battle Oracles are not "useless" and are merely the ramblings of my mind while on lunch break.******************


My bad for getting us off topic. Though, I do agree that Gnome is a good racial choice, especially for Heaven's Illusions PLUS some of the alternative racial abilities. "Eternal Hope" is worth a goblin's weight in gp. Sigh, but the Human's extra sp and FC bonus are extremely difficult to give up.

Assuming Human and Cha is maxed at 16.
H: Toughness/Combat Casting
1: Item Creation (only bc Kingmaker)/Weapon Focus
3: Heavy Armor Proficiency
5: Extend Spell
7: Leadership/ Quicken Spell
9: Spell Focus: Illusion
11:
13
15
17


Doc Cosmic, that's quite the build there. I can see the benefits of going battle. I do have a question, though: you took maneuver mastery twice. Can you pick a revelation more than once?


Sayer_of_Nay wrote:
Doc Cosmic, that's quite the build there. I can see the benefits of going battle. I do have a question, though: you took maneuver mastery twice. Can you pick a revelation more than once?

There is nothing that says you may only take a revelation once. Even the ones that say "you can use it once per day", could be taken a second time to provide two uses of the same revelation.

Yes...I have considered taking a Nature Oracle with multiple bonded mounts, but did not want to be beaten severely by the GM, and didn't want to slow down play because I had 4 characters to run, that just isn't kewl.


To Sayer_of_Nay:

Another idea is playing a Human Oracle (Heaven's Mystery) and Empyreal Knight (Paladin) build. I have this concept in my Jade Regent campaign. Very cool mix of strengths.

You have heavy armor proficiency, with shield. Plus you pick up resistances, summoning capability, and Oracle spell casting. His main weapon is a Spear for reach. Close quarters he uses an Earthbreaker or Bastard Sword (Deity's weapon). Wears a gauntlet. Later in the campaign he can pick up Celestial Armor, and if your DM allows it you could even get the Celestial Plate Armor (3.5 version) boosting overall AC and potentially bringing you to the frontline against the baddies.

I run him as a second line melee character attacking defensively and using Color Spray with Awesome Display for potency. I recommend you consider picking up Warrior Priest Feat. It offers a nice bonus to initiative and concentration.

These are just some suggestions. Good luck.

Star Voter 2013

I currently have a level 2 Gnome Heavens oracle that is a beast.

The gnome gives a bonus to illusion spell DC, I maxed stat buy on CHR, and took spell focus illusion. With the awesome display and colorspray this guy takes out small armies by himself.

I stacked some medium armor on him and bought a wolf to ride because his movement was suck anyway.

The bad thing about the character is that it feels a bit overpowered compared to the others in the group. In the last game we played I pretty much just charged into battle and sprayed everywhere while we walked through the entire scenario. There was an "after the story arc" battle that was a lot weaker than what we had been doing and I decided to not spray anything just to give others something to do and we all almost died and nearly failed the mission. This just furthers my impression that this revelation is probably not balanced.

Shadow Lodge

here is my hevens oracle that i played. i took 1 level of sorcerer for the undead blood line arcana, then heavens oracle.

feats:
(1) spell focus illusion & (3)necromancy, (5)greater spell focus illusion, (7) metamagic feat: Threnodic Spell (9)what ever ect..

thenodic spell allows for your illusion spells to effect undead. having access tot he sorcerer spell list allows for consumables, like scrolls, to be used at higher levels. enchantment spells like hideous laughter will effect liches and other corporial undead that have the humanoid base.

i focused on knowing, necromancy spells(blindness), enchantment spells (hold person), and illusion spells (colorspray) for amazing battlefield control. at 9th level i still havent had to sweat about encounters.

one piece of advice is ALWAYS know the best possible object damaging spell(shatter). because the only thing you cant effect by playing an enchanter/illusionist is constructs and swarms, but you have easy access to antiswarm spells by taking the blackened curse.

stack your cha to +5 and tell your barbarian to get ready to coup de grace. and get a metamagic rod of widen asap, that will make your day even easier.


Fun trick with the heavens oracle: using mantle of moonlight as a touch attack on enemy casters. You force the enemy into a rage as per the spell... Raging characters can't cast spells. No save and all you need to do is make a touch attack... Pretty exciting.

D20pfsrd has the errata/rule clarification on their oracle heavens mystery section.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracl e-mysteries/heavens


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Typelouder wrote:

Fun trick with the heavens oracle: using mantle of moonlight as a touch attack on enemy casters. You force the enemy into a rage as per the spell... Raging characters can't cast spells. No save and all you need to do is make a touch attack... Pretty exciting.

D20pfsrd has the errata/rule clarification on their oracle heavens mystery section.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracl e-mysteries/heavens

I'm wondering how this hurts enemy casters. Your link is broken so I wasn't able to read the errata. The Rage ability can be ended as a free action and the spell Rage says that it acts as the Rage ability.

Star Voter 2014

I would look at the dual cursed oracle.

The misfortune and fortune revelations are amazing.

What someone by some chance makes yoru save. Misfortune reroll.

What I failed my save. Fortune reroll.

Hell my buddy failed his will save and is dominated, misfortune reroll.


30 3.5 PB or 30 PF PB?

I'd recommend Half Elf over Human. They have the same favored class alternate, but get Paragon Surge and you want Eldritch Heritage: Arcane anyways, so the restricted feat options aren't a big deal.

With EH:A, you can use Paragon Surge to grab Improved EH:A and grab ANY Wizard spell you want on demand.

A familiar isn't a bad thing out of it either, especially if you grab Improved Familiar for an Arbiter (it's nearly impossible to kill, gets true speech, commune once a week for free, has hands and flyby attack).

Star Voter 2014

Go gnome. Heck with the other races. Gnomes illusions are 5% mor effective and your spells are illusion. This stacks with spell focus and such as well. Go gnome.

The Exchange Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I had a blast in a Legacy of Fire game with a Half-Orc Heavens Oracle build with the Haunted curse.

Their favored class bonus is the same as humans for the extra spells per the Advanced Race Guide.

Falchion and Greataxe proficiency give you some solid weapon choices.
And Ferocity gives you a round to heal/stabilize yourself should you lose too many hit points.

Darkvision and the Shaman's Apprentice alternate racial trait (Which Gives Endurance at the cost of the +2 on Intimidate checks from ARG
means you can sleep in your armor and can fend off a night time ambush easier.

Awesome Display has been thoroughly discussed already and makes Color Spray much more useful longer.

In an exploration heavy game (such as Kingmaker). Guiding Star is a wonderful choice as you can determine your exact location at night, and as a bonus you can add a free metamagic feat to a spell once in a while.

Interstellar Void and Spray of Shooting Stars give you some fun offensive options. Your party is light on AOE so I would recommend Spray of Shooting Stars as your first Revelation.

Personally I would take Heavy Armor Proficiency as a feat over Coat of Many Stars in your party (and save up for Mithral Full Plate)

Lure of The Heavens and Star Chart are great utility revelations. They also fit the Astrologer character theme well RP wise if you are going for that.

Moonlight Bridge is up to your GM as to how exactly you can use it. (as bridge only or 10' wide Wall of Force anywhere). At worst it makes climb checks easier or avoids them altogether and gives you a neat looking RP prop as you can provide the bridge over a castle moat.

Dweller in Darkness gives you Phantasmal Killer/Weird as a Spell-like Ability. 'Nuff said.

Liberty's Edge

You can aim for the Rage Prophet PrC which will boost your offensive spells (such as Color Spray) even more while giving you some pretty nice combat skills (through the Barbarian levels).

A 1-level dip in Crossblooded Sorcerer, besides granting you even more Color Spray, will give you more targets for your illusions. Choose your bloodlines accordingly (Groveborn for plants, Pestilence for vermin for example).

Being CHA-based, you might consider the Eldritch Heritage feats if you find some good Bloodline powers out there.

The Exchange Dedicated Voter 2013

I've played a Heaven's Oracle and it was the most effective character at the table.

As others have commented, I took a gnome. Here are some character high lights:

You will want to keep the DC of your Display as high as you can. This you do by two things:
a). Boosting Charisma. This will serve double use to allow you to render your enemies unconscious.
b). Heighten spell. I cannot emphasize enough the options this gives you. Take with magical lineage.

This trait, with a judicious combination of feats like widen or selective allows you to use rods very effectively.

Now, since you are playing Charisma monkey, you need to 'handle' a few things. How are you going to handle constructs, plants, and undead.

One method is to go the Golatian, or Thanatopic route.

Consider also Stoic (sodden lands) which gives you Cha bonus to Fort Saves. Same way there is a feat which contributes to reflex saves. Personally, I don't bother with the feat for init.

Penultimately, UMD should be a second focus, with traits and feats to boost.

This class is one that can multiclass with any full progression spell caster.

Very cool tricks: Either use the ring gates (allow you to cast in one ring and it comes out the other) or project image. Project image is a bit too exspensive for my tastes as it involves Eldritch Heritage and Improved Eldritch Heritage. (Arcane blood line). On the very plus side, you get a familiar. If you go this route, consider also improving that with an improved familiar for a lyrakien azata. You will have a familiar that will do well on UMD. Wand of Summoners dim door.. anyone.

This build is a canon. The problems you will face are: allies in the area of effect; mobility; plants, undead, blind. But there is *no* other character as capable of one shotting encounters.

Finally, since all you really care about is spell progression with awesome display - you can multiclass with any full progression you want.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Advice on a Heavens Oracle All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.