paizo.com Recent Posts in Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGspaizo.com Recent Posts in Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGs2014-04-21T17:20:35Z2014-04-21T17:20:35ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsVedicDragonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3492015-08-26T20:03:08Z2015-08-26T19:56:20Z<p>I for one am fascinated to see / hear about the contributions and offerings from Jeff De Luna and Jeff Erwin. I have further contributions, but I will hold off on that for now, as there have been some MASSIVE updates to my own endeavors in the years since I last posted my campaign journal, infused by a great deal of work into "Mythic India", Sanskrit writings, the parallel evolutions of both Hindu and Zoroastrian faiths as the at times friendly, at times contentious relationship the Indian subcontinent has had with the various persian empires since the Rg Vedic period, etc.</p>
<p>I was also very pleased to read that some have been proponents of Ms. Wendy Donniger's work as I too have been following avidly when doing what is, sadly, some heavily informed guess-work to inspire creativity with regards to origins and interactivity between the Devas and Asuras of Hinduism, vs the Daeva and Ahuras/Asuras of Zoroastrian faith. Having grown up in a Parsee community in Mumbai for the first five years of my life has also provided me a fair bit of access and insights to this, as secretive as the Zoroastrian practices can be.</p>
<p>That said, I wil be happy to engage, with questions, assertions and my own findings at length in the near future. Mikaze, thank you so much for linking my own work as the first comment to this thread. I feel quite honored to be cited.</p>
<p>As I noticed the original link is broken, here is my half-a-decade obsolete campaign journal below:
<br />
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ivz2?Mahasharpa-Sahasra-Mindshadows-Tales-of-1 000#1</p>
<p>Please keep up the fantastic work, folks! I look forward to comparing notes on our respective "Mythic Indias" soon!</p>I for one am fascinated to see / hear about the contributions and offerings from Jeff De Luna and Jeff Erwin. I have further contributions, but I will hold off on that for now, as there have been some MASSIVE updates to my own endeavors in the years since I last posted my campaign journal, infused by a great deal of work into "Mythic India", Sanskrit writings, the parallel evolutions of both Hindu and Zoroastrian faiths as the at times friendly, at times contentious relationship the Indian...VedicDragon2015-08-26T19:56:20ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsLemarteshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3482015-01-05T06:15:27Z2015-01-05T06:15:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MMCJawa wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Yeah but DnD probably to some extent has already passed beyond that point.</p>
<p>I think Hindu gods need to be treated carefuly, as they are worshiped by a large population of people, and whats more worshipped by a culture that a lot of people in the West are not terribly familiar with, so easy to accidently offend. I would argue that same case for Jesus, or Allah, or Yahweh. If you want to publish a Hindu Pantheon, or design a monotheistic religion, it's best to change the names and details.</p>
<p>I am sure there is some pagan group somewhere that venerates Greek gods, but they have to be an incredibly minor part of the population, on par with those who still worship Egyptian gods (which were recently introduced in the the last published AP volume). For the most part the Greek Pantheon has transitioned from religion to mythology and pop culture. Whats more, The Greek and Norse gods have always been somewhat a basis for how DnD gods have been portrayed. I don't think you can create a "serial number filed off version" that wouldn't seem like a generic DnD god.</p>
<p>I would argue the Bestiaries are a great example of this: a large chunk of them are named creatures from folklore/mythology, but many of them have had minor to major changes in their flavor. Similarly, Pathfinder already has incorporated a ton of real life Gods. Asmodeus, Lamashtu, the archdevils, most of the demon lords, a good chunk of the empyreal lords, Some of the Tian Xia dieties, etc.</p>
<p></blockquote><p>I agree that I like them to make up completely new deities with the flavour of said pantheon or culture. Not so much for the offense part but it makes Golarion feel more like a real place that way.
<p>The Egyptian Gods for some reason don't seem to bother me.</p>
<p>I like the Vudran Gods they have made so far. I don't think many have real world counter parts as do many of the other demons etc.</p>
<p>Anyways, Vudra AP and setting book please. Thanks. ;)</p>MMCJawa wrote:Yeah but DnD probably to some extent has already passed beyond that point.
I think Hindu gods need to be treated carefuly, as they are worshiped by a large population of people, and whats more worshipped by a culture that a lot of people in the West are not terribly familiar with, so easy to accidently offend. I would argue that same case for Jesus, or Allah, or Yahweh. If you want to publish a Hindu Pantheon, or design a monotheistic religion, it's best to change the names and...Lemartes2015-01-05T06:15:27ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsSethttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3472015-01-04T20:40:18Z2015-01-04T20:40:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravenovf wrote:</div><blockquote> Finding inspiration for villainous elements without using Rakshasa or Asura excessively as monsters has proved the largest challenge, In fact Ive hit a creative block in this regards. So basically was wondering if there was any clearly malign forces or organizations serving Malign forces more lore friendly to the culture to take inspiration from? </blockquote><p>Green Ronin's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Monsters-The-Mind-Kevin-Brennan/dp/097267568X" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Monsters of the Mind</a> has a fair number of psionic monsters, many with a heavy Indian flavor.
<p>Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light includes different interpretations of Rakshasa, some elementals, and name-droppage of pisachas and 'the mothers of the terrible glow' (aquatic humanoids able to generate energy that allows them to animate rivers or seawater and turn it toxic / possibly radioactive...).</p>
<p>Random other ideas;
<br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_(Hindu_mythology)
<br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pishacha
<br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology)</p>Ravenovf wrote:Finding inspiration for villainous elements without using Rakshasa or Asura excessively as monsters has proved the largest challenge, In fact Ive hit a creative block in this regards. So basically was wondering if there was any clearly malign forces or organizations serving Malign forces more lore friendly to the culture to take inspiration from?
Green Ronin's Monsters of the Mind has a fair number of psionic monsters, many with a heavy Indian flavor. Roger Zelazny's Lord of...Set2015-01-04T20:40:18ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsRavenovfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3462015-01-04T17:56:18Z2015-01-04T17:56:18Z<p>After playing Farcry 4 I had an urge to learn more about India (a region that I will admit as a lore geek I lack knowledge about), Tibet and Napal as all three were kind mashed together to create Kyrat. I have to say that finding existing rules for Indian culture in high fantasy was challenging. After reading this I have to tip my hat to the time and effort required to create a fantasy setting inspired by such a large and diverse culture.</p>
<p>After my own research and to be honest in some cases just because, I used the following as the primary races for my own work. Human, Vanara, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Nagaji, Samsaren and Vishkanya. I figured some were already inspired by regional lore and others would be interesting to add in and apply some elements of the culture to.</p>
<p>Finding inspiration for villainous elements without using Rakshasa or Asura excessively as monsters has proved the largest challenge, In fact Ive hit a creative block in this regards. So basically was wondering if there was any clearly malign forces or organizations serving Malign forces more lore friendly to the culture to take inspiration from?</p>After playing Farcry 4 I had an urge to learn more about India (a region that I will admit as a lore geek I lack knowledge about), Tibet and Napal as all three were kind mashed together to create Kyrat. I have to say that finding existing rules for Indian culture in high fantasy was challenging. After reading this I have to tip my hat to the time and effort required to create a fantasy setting inspired by such a large and diverse culture.
After my own research and to be honest in some cases...Ravenovf2015-01-04T17:56:18ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3452014-12-15T03:18:12Z2014-12-14T16:45:46Z<p>I've bitten the betel-nut and will be running my epic Vudra campaign "Five Bone Sutra" starting in January. I'll write it as it goes along. Psychic Magic+Mythic+Vudra.</p>
<p>I've been away for a while because of work. Hey everyone!</p>I've bitten the betel-nut and will be running my epic Vudra campaign "Five Bone Sutra" starting in January. I'll write it as it goes along. Psychic Magic+Mythic+Vudra.
I've been away for a while because of work. Hey everyone!Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-12-14T16:45:46ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3442014-05-05T14:43:22Z2014-05-05T14:43:22Z<p>Well, I got a copy of Wendy Doninger's <i>On Hinduism</i>, a collection of essays, the other day (not to be confused with her <i>Hinduism</i> of a few years back).</p>
<p>It has sections on the Third-gender in Hinduism, polyandry, feminism, and so forth, so I am very much enjoying it.</p>Well, I got a copy of Wendy Doninger's On Hinduism, a collection of essays, the other day (not to be confused with her Hinduism of a few years back).
It has sections on the Third-gender in Hinduism, polyandry, feminism, and so forth, so I am very much enjoying it.Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-05-05T14:43:22ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsterraleonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3432014-05-02T03:35:02Z2014-05-02T03:35:02Z<p>What a great thread! So much fantastic research here. I think I added about 5 books to my wishlist and bought one outright.</p>
<p>-Ben.</p>What a great thread! So much fantastic research here. I think I added about 5 books to my wishlist and bought one outright.
-Ben.terraleon2014-05-02T03:35:02ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3422014-05-02T00:15:01Z2014-05-02T00:15:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MMCJawa wrote:</div><blockquote> I would love if, when we finally get canon info on Vudra, there was a bad guy magic group called the Jidradani :) </blockquote><p>I just made up that name. The actual name is a conventional South Asian name. But, yeah.MMCJawa wrote:I would love if, when we finally get canon info on Vudra, there was a bad guy magic group called the Jidradani :)
I just made up that name. The actual name is a conventional South Asian name. But, yeah.Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-05-02T00:15:01ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsMMCJawahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3412014-05-01T23:19:41Z2014-05-01T23:19:41Z<p>I would love if, when we finally get canon info on Vudra, there was a bad guy magic group called the Jidradani :)</p>I would love if, when we finally get canon info on Vudra, there was a bad guy magic group called the Jidradani :)MMCJawa2014-05-01T23:19:41ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3402014-05-02T05:38:31Z2014-05-01T14:56:48Z<p>All those Indian "black magic" spams make me want to post advertisements all over my Vudra for a witch syndicate. In inappropriate places, like dungeons.</p>
<p>••Love••! Find your Horoscope! Rid yourself of Curses! ••Baba Jidradani Can Help You!••</p>All those Indian "black magic" spams make me want to post advertisements all over my Vudra for a witch syndicate. In inappropriate places, like dungeons.
**Love**! Find your Horoscope! Rid yourself of Curses! **Baba Jidradani Can Help You!**Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-05-01T14:56:48ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3392014-04-21T23:01:30Z2014-04-21T23:01:30Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Voadam wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Jeff Erwin wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TritonOne wrote:</div><blockquote> Perhaps the responsible thing to do is to remind the reader that the book is a work of fiction and should not be confused with a scholarly work on mythology or history. Especially if names are used, but the creature, god, demigod <i>etc</i>. is largely the creation of the author(s). </blockquote><p>Keep in mind that blasphemy is illegal in India, and the <i>Satanic Verses</i> is banned there. Scholarly works are actually less likely (with a major exception being Doninger's works) to be noticed by the easily offended than works of pop culture like games or films.
<p>In actuality, Greek neopagans have criticised use of their gods in popular culture, art, and sport (notably the Olympics), particularly when it's humorous or commercial in character.</p>
<p>We all have the right to be jealous or protective of our gods, I suppose. </blockquote>I'd say the banning of literary fiction is more a strike against Indian law and a black mark for the society and culture behind the law than a supporting reason to self censor out of respect if you are not in India. </blockquote><p>That may be true. But it is also a reminder that certain gods are believed in, and belief is due the courtesy of thoughtfulness, if even if it is not one's own faith or philosophy. The main point is that a 'fantasy India' can't be done without creating an alternate, fictional pantheon (needing one even more than say, 'fantasy Europe,' like Midgard); this is ameliorated by the fact that 'historical settings' probably isn't the best use of PF, anyway; it's designed for high fantasy. The defensiveness of South Asian religious groups is not altogether homegrown; it's partly a response to British culture and its patronising dismissal or co-option (see Theosophy) of ancient beliefs.Voadam wrote:Jeff Erwin wrote: TritonOne wrote: Perhaps the responsible thing to do is to remind the reader that the book is a work of fiction and should not be confused with a scholarly work on mythology or history. Especially if names are used, but the creature, god, demigod etc. is largely the creation of the author(s).
Keep in mind that blasphemy is illegal in India, and the Satanic Verses is banned there. Scholarly works are actually less likely (with a major exception being Doninger's...Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-04-21T23:01:30ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsVoadamhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3382014-04-21T19:04:40Z2014-04-21T19:04:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jeff Erwin wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TritonOne wrote:</div><blockquote> Perhaps the responsible thing to do is to remind the reader that the book is a work of fiction and should not be confused with a scholarly work on mythology or history. Especially if names are used, but the creature, god, demigod <i>etc</i>. is largely the creation of the author(s). </blockquote><p>Keep in mind that blasphemy is illegal in India, and the <i>Satanic Verses</i> is banned there. Scholarly works are actually less likely (with a major exception being Doninger's works) to be noticed by the easily offended than works of pop culture like games or films.
<p>In actuality, Greek neopagans have criticised use of their gods in popular culture, art, and sport (notably the Olympics), particularly when it's humorous or commercial in character.</p>
<p>We all have the right to be jealous or protective of our gods, I suppose. </blockquote><p>I'd say the banning of literary fiction is more a strike against Indian law and a black mark for the society and culture behind the law than a supporting reason to self censor out of respect if you are not in India.Jeff Erwin wrote:TritonOne wrote: Perhaps the responsible thing to do is to remind the reader that the book is a work of fiction and should not be confused with a scholarly work on mythology or history. Especially if names are used, but the creature, god, demigod etc. is largely the creation of the author(s).
Keep in mind that blasphemy is illegal in India, and the Satanic Verses is banned there. Scholarly works are actually less likely (with a major exception being Doninger's works) to be...Voadam2014-04-21T19:04:40ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3372014-04-19T22:31:43Z2014-04-19T22:31:43Z<p>Speaking of this issue, there's a recent Trail of Cthulhu adventure I got recently that features a sacred space in Hinduism (and Buddhism, and local shamanism) in a way that could be seen as massively offensive. I'm not sure that it matters to ToC - it's a niche game, and Cthulhu gaming has transgressed other taboos before - but PF and the d20 world is much more high profile.</p>
<p>I'm not going to name the place because it's significant to the plot and the adventure is really good. But it's not a choice I would have made had I written it.</p>Speaking of this issue, there's a recent Trail of Cthulhu adventure I got recently that features a sacred space in Hinduism (and Buddhism, and local shamanism) in a way that could be seen as massively offensive. I'm not sure that it matters to ToC - it's a niche game, and Cthulhu gaming has transgressed other taboos before - but PF and the d20 world is much more high profile.
I'm not going to name the place because it's significant to the plot and the adventure is really good. But it's not a...Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-04-19T22:31:43ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJaerchttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3362014-04-19T17:43:23Z2014-04-19T17:43:23Z<p>~DOT~</p>~DOT~Jaerc2014-04-19T17:43:23ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3352014-04-19T02:08:53Z2014-04-19T02:08:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TritonOne wrote:</div><blockquote> Perhaps the responsible thing to do is to remind the reader that the book is a work of fiction and should not be confused with a scholarly work on mythology or history. Especially if names are used, but the creature, god, demigod <i>etc</i>. is largely the creation of the author(s). </blockquote><p>Keep in mind that blasphemy is illegal in India, and the <i>Satanic Verses</i> is banned there. Scholarly works are actually less likely (with a major exception being Doninger's works) to be noticed by the easily offended than works of pop culture like games or films.
<p>In actuality, Greek neopagans have criticised use of their gods in popular culture, art, and sport (notably the Olympics), particularly when it's humorous or commercial in character.</p>
<p>We all have the right to be jealous or protective of our gods, I suppose.</p>TritonOne wrote:Perhaps the responsible thing to do is to remind the reader that the book is a work of fiction and should not be confused with a scholarly work on mythology or history. Especially if names are used, but the creature, god, demigod etc. is largely the creation of the author(s).
Keep in mind that blasphemy is illegal in India, and the Satanic Verses is banned there. Scholarly works are actually less likely (with a major exception being Doninger's works) to be noticed by the...Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-04-19T02:08:53ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsTritonOnehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3342014-04-18T18:03:01Z2014-04-18T18:03:01Z<p>Perhaps the responsible thing to do is to remind the reader that the book is a work of fiction and should not be confused with a scholarly work on mythology or history. Especially if names are used, but the creature, god, demigod <i>etc</i>. is largely the creation of the author(s).</p>Perhaps the responsible thing to do is to remind the reader that the book is a work of fiction and should not be confused with a scholarly work on mythology or history. Especially if names are used, but the creature, god, demigod etc. is largely the creation of the author(s).TritonOne2014-04-18T18:03:01ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3332014-04-18T16:09:57Z2014-04-18T16:09:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Chief Cook and Bottlewasher wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TritonOne wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">MMCJawa wrote:</div><blockquote> Why would they need to rename the Greek Gods? They didn't for Egypt. </blockquote>Because Iblydos is a fictional island based on ancient Greece on a fictional planet in a fictional role-playing setting. Previously, we were discussing the "Introduction" to <i>Legends & Lore</i> that had the disclaimer that it was not a scholarly work. If you use a name from mythology, I believe that you are obliged to accurately represent the being in question according to ancient belief. </blockquote>I'm not sure you can. I believe there are a lot of conflicting ancient beliefs. </blockquote><p>There's probably a middle way somewhere here. A story can be represented accurately, though other aspects of the mythology may contradict it. The Iliad was contradicted by other sources (Dictys, the Aeneid, etc.) and sometimes you have to - or should - choose a specific version. And a game set in the Renaissance might depict the Greek or Roman gods according to Early Modern Neo-platonism and be fully valid, even if actual Classical Greeks and Romans wouldn't recognise them… Take Pan for an example.
<p>The trouble with South Asian religions, is that the representations of these gods and their mythology coalesced in fairly recent times to a certain "traditionalist" model that has about as much tolerance for heterodoxy as certain strains of Western religion. In part this is a mirroring of Western attempts to codify "Hinduism" as a unified religion. But these heterodox and historical contradictions still exist, whether as texts, as sectarian beliefs, or as folk religion.</p>Chief Cook and Bottlewasher wrote:TritonOne wrote: MMCJawa wrote: Why would they need to rename the Greek Gods? They didn't for Egypt.
Because Iblydos is a fictional island based on ancient Greece on a fictional planet in a fictional role-playing setting. Previously, we were discussing the "Introduction" to Legends & Lore that had the disclaimer that it was not a scholarly work. If you use a name from mythology, I believe that you are obliged to accurately represent the being in question...Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-04-18T16:09:57ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsChief Cook and Bottlewasher (alias of diana ratcliffe)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3322014-04-18T15:41:40Z2014-04-18T15:41:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TritonOne wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">MMCJawa wrote:</div><blockquote> Why would they need to rename the Greek Gods? They didn't for Egypt. </blockquote>Because Iblydos is a fictional island based on ancient Greece on a fictional planet in a fictional role-playing setting. Previously, we were discussing the "Introduction" to <i>Legends & Lore</i> that had the disclaimer that it was not a scholarly work. If you use a name from mythology, I believe that you are obliged to accurately represent the being in question according to ancient belief. </blockquote><p>I'm not sure you can. I believe there are a lot of conflicting ancient beliefs.TritonOne wrote:MMCJawa wrote: Why would they need to rename the Greek Gods? They didn't for Egypt.
Because Iblydos is a fictional island based on ancient Greece on a fictional planet in a fictional role-playing setting. Previously, we were discussing the "Introduction" to Legends & Lore that had the disclaimer that it was not a scholarly work. If you use a name from mythology, I believe that you are obliged to accurately represent the being in question according to ancient belief. I'm not...Chief Cook and Bottlewasher (alias of diana ratcliffe)2014-04-18T15:41:40ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsTodd Stewart (Contributor) (alias of Amber_Stewart, Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3312020-07-29T17:37:12Z2014-04-18T15:37:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mikaze wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Jeff Erwin wrote:</div><blockquote>Indeed. When the Peacock Spirit appeared I thought: "awesome, finally a positive spin on the idea…the exemplar of a redeemed fallen angel" And then it/she/he apparently turned out to be non-good. :( But then, I think peafowl are pretty cool. </blockquote><p>The Peacock Angel is still out there, somewhere, at least. :)
<p>(and now that you mention it, possibly a great point of origin for the peri, considering their flavor)</p>
<p>Really want to ask Todd Stewart about that now... </blockquote><p>If it makes you feel any better, my current home campaign is [Spoiler omitted]
<p>The little bits of lore I wrote regarding the Peacock Angel (Szuriel and a number of her predecessors wielding Melek Taus's sword for instance, and a LN race in the Abyss claiming to be the results of a fallen Peacock Angel's shed essence of Law as she plummeted from Heaven, etc) were intentionally fuzzy in that they could also be alluding to the Peacock Spirit as well, but nothing was absolute, by design so that future sources on either didn't have to worry about contradicting anything for the most part. Also since I didn't create the Peacock Spirit, I didn't want to solve someone else's mystery out of serious respect for them.</p>
<p>In my home campaign however I'm free to go crazy and be totally unrestrained by canon.</p>
<p>And I've got an Ask Todd Stewart thread, ask away any time you want, though with the caveat that any of my answers there aren't canonical in any way since I'm just a freelancer. :)</p>Mikaze wrote:Jeff Erwin wrote:Indeed. When the Peacock Spirit appeared I thought: "awesome, finally a positive spin on the idea…the exemplar of a redeemed fallen angel" And then it/she/he apparently turned out to be non-good. :( But then, I think peafowl are pretty cool.
The Peacock Angel is still out there, somewhere, at least. :) (and now that you mention it, possibly a great point of origin for the peri, considering their flavor)
Really want to ask Todd Stewart about that now... If it...Todd Stewart (Contributor) (alias of Amber_Stewart, Contributor)2014-04-18T15:37:12ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsChanging Manhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3302014-04-18T11:29:31Z2014-04-18T11:29:31Z<p>There are Hellenistic neo-pagans in more than just Greece; I know of several families (here in Central Europe) who fled persecution and brought their 'old ways' with them.</p>
<p>The Religio Romano is gaining some headway in some places of the former Roman Empire (particularly amongst those people fed up with the Church & its bureaucracy, and sometimes due to state-sponsored taxes).</p>
<p>Germanic Heathenism is second only to Christianity in Iceland, and is one of their recognized national religions, and there are likewise quite a few groups in Norway and Sweden as well.</p>There are Hellenistic neo-pagans in more than just Greece; I know of several families (here in Central Europe) who fled persecution and brought their 'old ways' with them.
The Religio Romano is gaining some headway in some places of the former Roman Empire (particularly amongst those people fed up with the Church & its bureaucracy, and sometimes due to state-sponsored taxes).
Germanic Heathenism is second only to Christianity in Iceland, and is one of their recognized national religions,...Changing Man2014-04-18T11:29:31ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3292014-04-18T01:37:05Z2014-04-18T01:37:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TritonOne wrote:</div><blockquote> I remember the first edition <i>Deities and Demigods</i> book to be my introduction to American Indian, Celtic, Japanese, Indian, and Sumerian folklore and mythology. As a child, I was naive enough to believe that the book was a factual representation of the mythos contained in the book and the book could be used as a primer on mythology. Which of course is silly in hindsight, but I was child at the time. </blockquote><p>That's exactly why Vudra needs its own gods. And any game using Hinduism or another unfamiliar religion (to most of us) in its background needs to be very carefully thought out.
<p>I think, in gaming, the religion that gets the worst press is probably Vodoun.</p>TritonOne wrote:I remember the first edition Deities and Demigods book to be my introduction to American Indian, Celtic, Japanese, Indian, and Sumerian folklore and mythology. As a child, I was naive enough to believe that the book was a factual representation of the mythos contained in the book and the book could be used as a primer on mythology. Which of course is silly in hindsight, but I was child at the time.
That's exactly why Vudra needs its own gods. And any game using Hinduism or...Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-04-18T01:37:05ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsJeff Erwin (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3282014-04-18T01:35:03Z2014-04-18T01:35:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MMCJawa wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>I am sure there is some pagan group somewhere that venerates Greek gods, but they have to be an incredibly minor part of the population, on par with those who still worship Egyptian gods (which were recently introduced in the the last published AP volume). For the most part the Greek Pantheon has transitioned from religion to mythology and pop culture. Whats more, The Greek and Norse gods have always been somewhat a basis for how DnD gods have been portrayed. I don't think you can create a "serial number filed off version" that wouldn't seem like a generic DnD god.</p>
<p></blockquote><p>There are Greek neo-pagans (in Greece, specifically), but the religion (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenism_(religion)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Hellenism</a>) was banned, or at least bureaucratically persecuted, until 2006.MMCJawa wrote:I am sure there is some pagan group somewhere that venerates Greek gods, but they have to be an incredibly minor part of the population, on par with those who still worship Egyptian gods (which were recently introduced in the the last published AP volume). For the most part the Greek Pantheon has transitioned from religion to mythology and pop culture. Whats more, The Greek and Norse gods have always been somewhat a basis for how DnD gods have been portrayed. I don't think you...Jeff Erwin (Contributor)2014-04-18T01:35:03ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsTritonOnehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3272014-04-18T01:03:22Z2014-04-18T01:03:22Z<p>I remember the first edition <i>Deities and Demigods</i> book to be my introduction to American Indian, Celtic, Japanese, Indian, and Sumerian folklore and mythology. As a child, I was naive enough to believe that the book was a factual representation of the mythos contained in the book and the book could be used as a primer on mythology. Which of course is silly in hindsight, but I was child at the time.</p>I remember the first edition Deities and Demigods book to be my introduction to American Indian, Celtic, Japanese, Indian, and Sumerian folklore and mythology. As a child, I was naive enough to believe that the book was a factual representation of the mythos contained in the book and the book could be used as a primer on mythology. Which of course is silly in hindsight, but I was child at the time.TritonOne2014-04-18T01:03:22ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsMMCJawahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3262014-04-18T00:00:20Z2014-04-18T00:00:20Z<p>Yeah but DnD probably to some extent has already passed beyond that point.</p>
<p>I think Hindu gods need to be treated carefuly, as they are worshiped by a large population of people, and whats more worshipped by a culture that a lot of people in the West are not terribly familiar with, so easy to accidently offend. I would argue that same case for Jesus, or Allah, or Yahweh. If you want to publish a Hindu Pantheon, or design a monotheistic religion, it's best to change the names and details.</p>
<p>I am sure there is some pagan group somewhere that venerates Greek gods, but they have to be an incredibly minor part of the population, on par with those who still worship Egyptian gods (which were recently introduced in the the last published AP volume). For the most part the Greek Pantheon has transitioned from religion to mythology and pop culture. Whats more, The Greek and Norse gods have always been somewhat a basis for how DnD gods have been portrayed. I don't think you can create a "serial number filed off version" that wouldn't seem like a generic DnD god.</p>
<p>I would argue the Bestiaries are a great example of this: a large chunk of them are named creatures from folklore/mythology, but many of them have had minor to major changes in their flavor. Similarly, Pathfinder already has incorporated a ton of real life Gods. Asmodeus, Lamashtu, the archdevils, most of the demon lords, a good chunk of the empyreal lords, Some of the Tian Xia dieties, etc.</p>Yeah but DnD probably to some extent has already passed beyond that point.
I think Hindu gods need to be treated carefuly, as they are worshiped by a large population of people, and whats more worshipped by a culture that a lot of people in the West are not terribly familiar with, so easy to accidently offend. I would argue that same case for Jesus, or Allah, or Yahweh. If you want to publish a Hindu Pantheon, or design a monotheistic religion, it's best to change the names and details.
I...MMCJawa2014-04-18T00:00:20ZRe: Forums/Lost Omens Campaign Setting: General Discussion: Vudra and "Indian Flavored" RPGsTritonOnehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lfdf&page=7?Vudra-and-Indian-Flavored-RPGs#3252014-04-17T21:52:11Z2014-04-17T21:52:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MMCJawa wrote:</div><blockquote> Why would they need to rename the Greek Gods? They didn't for Egypt. </blockquote><p>Because Iblydos is a fictional island based on ancient Greece on a fictional planet in a fictional role-playing setting. Previously, we were discussing the "Introduction" to <i>Legends & Lore</i> that had the disclaimer that it was not a scholarly work. If you use a name from mythology, I believe that you are obliged to accurately represent the being in question according to ancient belief.MMCJawa wrote:Why would they need to rename the Greek Gods? They didn't for Egypt.
Because Iblydos is a fictional island based on ancient Greece on a fictional planet in a fictional role-playing setting. Previously, we were discussing the "Introduction" to Legends & Lore that had the disclaimer that it was not a scholarly work. If you use a name from mythology, I believe that you are obliged to accurately represent the being in question according to ancient belief.TritonOne2014-04-17T21:52:11Z