Ambient Light


Rules Questions


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Recently I have seen the topic of Light and Magical Darkness pop up on the forums. I've tried reading them all, but they are dominated by opinion and conjecture, and I'm having trouble deducing a straight answer.

What is "Ambient Light"?
Are the Sun, Moon, and Stars to only sources of "Ambient Light"?

If I'm exploring a room lit by a torch I'm holding, and someone drops Darkness. The torch is canceled, there's no other light, so the room is dark.
What if the room was lit by torches in sconces, or oil lamps? Are those canceled as well, or are they reduced one level to dim? What if they're not in the area of darkness, can they shed dim (reduced from normal) light into the darkness?
If a cave is lit, to normal light, by bio-luminescent fungus is this light reduced or canceled?

Contributor

You don't want opinions or conjectures? Only straight answers? Fine.

Straight answer: In reality, light is measured by candlepower. There is no way to cause dimness or darkness that simulates dimness except by smoke or similar haze. Light comes in every imaginable degree of brightness

In game terms, there are only four degrees of lighting: daylight which is "bright light," normal light which is what is called indirect lighting in reality, dim light which is just dim, and darkness. Candles, torches, and sunrods cannot increase the light level over "normal light," and even magical light sources can't except for the "daylight" spell.

Note: In the first chapter of "The Secret of the Rose and Glove," Norret used an unnamed alchemical powder to increase the dim radiance of a rushdip (a tallow candle of the sort found in the 1st edition D&D Player's Handbook and used in historic times) and increases it to the brightness of day. Actually, brighter, but in game terms there's no difference between regular sunshine and a really bright day somewhere with lots of reflections, like a snowy mountain or a white sand beach.

The alchemical powder isn't named, but it's described as smelling of sulfur and being as bright as a magnesium torch, which should give a clue as to ingredients.

This hasn't been officially statted up, but it could be anything from an "ordinary" alchemical item made with the standard alchemy rules to a more potent magical dust made via Magical Artisan (Craft Alchemy), Craft Wondrous Item, and the Daylight spell.

There are also candles, lamps, hooded lanterns, and bullseye lanterns for sale in the core rules. None of them by the rules increase light beyond the "normal" range. That said, a magnifying glass by the RAW can concentrate daylight into something strong enough to ignite paper, so it isn't unreasonable to assume that the rest of light in the game universe operates in something approximating real world physics.

Mirrors are also sold. And bullseye lanterns are made with both reflectors and lenses. I think you can see what I'm getting at here. If the entire party of adventurers are outfitted with bullseye lanterns, and they all focus the beams of their lantern on the same area, at what point does the illumination in that area go from "normal light" to "daylight"?

Saying that it never does is absurd. You will, at some point, have to make a ruling--even if it's not an official one--as to how many bullseye lanterns focused on the same spot finally gets the brightness up to "daylight." Similarly, there is no rule in the RAW that I can see that prevents a regular character without light sensitivity or light blindness from staring directly at the sun with no retinal damage or any other problems, even temporary.

That said, while it may be Rule 0 and not RAW, I don't think there's a GM on the planet that would have a problem with me saying, "You stared at the sun without any eye protection and then continued to do so. I don't care if there isn't an official rule against it--make a Fortitude save. If you make it, you're only Dazzled. If you fail, you're Blind for as many rounds as I say based on my secret roll which I'm not telling you."

The same way, it's up to every GM to decide for themselves exactly how many lamps with what sort of lamp oil and X many reflectors and Y many crystal refractors can get the illumination up to the level of daylight.

Whether that daylight is sufficient to cause daylight-sensitive undead to go *POOF* is another matter, but if you look at Alkenstar, the mana wastes, you've got a bright sunny desert which nevertheless has some undead problems. Now, since moonlight is just reflected sunlight, it should be theoretically possible to create an Archimedean death ray which concentrates moonlight back into sunlight and uses it to fry specters and wraiths. Is it RAW? At this point, no. Would it be kewl? Hell yes! Is Alkenstar probably doing product testing on this mana-free undead eradication measure as we speak? Almost certainly.

As for the darkness spell, here it would have to be my opinion rather than official ruling, but judging from the way the rules are worded, the darkness spell appears to create basically a magic "lampshade zone" that shades all lights within it. Magical lights counter the darkness if the spell is of higher level, but non-magical lights don't.

That said, if someone created an Archimedean death ray inside the mana wastes and pointed the light at an area outside under the effect of a darkness spell? I'd say it would need to be a GM call.

Personally I would say that regardless of the magicalness or lack thereof from the light source, certain effects should take illumination up or down a notch and don't worry whether it's magical illumination, mundane illumination, or some other source.


That pretty much answers my question, thanks.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Quantum Steve wrote:
That pretty much answers my question, thanks.

Thus why we're trying to get developer input in that other thread. Their writing is ambiguous enough for it cause a debate to go on WAY longer than I would have ever thought reasonable.

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