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Painlord's What to Expect at a PFS Table


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd like to add a little trick that I think I'll have my Fighter/Wizard (and maybe my druid, who already carries multiples of this item) start doing:

Me: "As a move action, I retrieve an item from my person, provoking an AoO."

GM: "Alright, the thug takes a swing, hitting for XX damage."

Me: "Okay. Now as a free action, I drop the ordinary rock I just pulled from my pocket. As a standard action, I cast a spell. I'm guessing the thug doesn't have Combat Reflexes?"

GM: "No..."

Andoran *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:

I'd like to add a little trick that I think I'll have my Fighter/Wizard (and maybe my druid, who already carries multiples of this item) start doing:

Me: "As a move action, I retrieve an item from my person, provoking an AoO."

GM: "Alright, the thug takes a swing, hitting for XX damage."

Me: "Okay. Now as a free action, I drop the ordinary rock I just pulled from my pocket. As a standard action, I cast a spell. I'm guessing the thug doesn't have Combat Reflexes?"

GM: "No..."

I don't get it... what am I missing other then you took Damage for no reason...

Cheliax *

He's avoiding the injured while casting concentration check by provoking before starting the spell. It's a dangerous tactic to say the least.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Dragnmoon wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

I'd like to add a little trick that I think I'll have my Fighter/Wizard (and maybe my druid, who already carries multiples of this item) start doing:

Me: "As a move action, I retrieve an item from my person, provoking an AoO."

GM: "Alright, the thug takes a swing, hitting for XX damage."

Me: "Okay. Now as a free action, I drop the ordinary rock I just pulled from my pocket. As a standard action, I cast a spell. I'm guessing the thug doesn't have Combat Reflexes?"

GM: "No..."

I don't get it... what am I missing other then you took Damage for no reason...

Zero risk of losing the spell. If they AoO me when I cast, a hit will force a Concentration check based on the damage. Casting defensively also requires a Concentration check.

If getting the spell off is more important than avoiding a single hit, then this gets you what you need.

Andoran *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Or he can just cast defensively and not get injured, that is why I am confused..

Edit: I think Casting defensively is a much better tactic, then taking a Hit. Unless your concentration check is horrendous, they are not that difficult.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Alex Draconis wrote:
He's avoiding the injured while casting concentration check by provoking before hand. It's a dangerous tactic to say the least.

Probably good to emphasize that. Note that I said I'd be doing this with my Fighter/Wizard and my Druid, not with a pure-squishy.

It's also only advantageous in very specific circumstances. Do not make a habit of it.

Qadira ***

I suppose if you really want pain, you can free action drop to the ground, then move action to stand up, also provoking. It's painfully silly to do, but also works.

Or you can move away to provoke then move back, then cast.

Lots of ways to do it.

he heh heh heh huh heh...i said 'do it'...heh huh heh heh heh

-Pain

Cheliax *

Still it is sly so I approve.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Dragnmoon wrote:

Or he can just cast defensively and not get injured, that is why I am confused..

Edit: I think Casting defensively is a much better tactic, then taking a Hit. Unless your concentration check is horrendous, they are not that difficult.

It depends. If you haven't been hit yet, but the spell could end the encounter, then taking a little damage and getting patched up afterwards is better than risking losing the spell.

As for "not that difficult", it's DC 15 plus double spell level. Even with combat casting and an 18 in your casting stat, that's +9 against DC 17 for a 1st-level spell, or a 40% chance of losing the spell. That's barely better than a coin flip and it cost you a feat. It gets even worse when you're some kind of melee/casting hybrid (battle cleric, melee bard, eldritch knight, melee druid, etc) with a 14 or so in your casting stat.

Again, don't try this tactic all the time, but sometimes it's the best option.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dragnmoon wrote:
that is why I am confused..

Is that the only reason?

Cheliax *

Painlord wrote:

I suppose if you really want pain, you can free action drop to the ground, then move action to stand up, also provoking. It's painfully silly to do, but also works.

Or you can move away to provoke then move back, then cast.

Lots of ways to do it.

he heh heh heh huh heh...i said 'do it'...heh huh heh heh heh

-Pain

Nah they'd get the prone bonus that way.

Shadow Lodge *** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Silicon Valley aka JohnF

Painlord wrote:
I suppose if you really want pain, you can free action drop to the ground, then move action to stand up, also provoking.

For extra benefits, do that next to my (or Clifford's ...) monk. Vicious Stomp will get you attacked when you fall down, and with Combat Reflexes you'll get hit on the way back up as well. Clifford probably has all sorts of extra little options he can call on, too, so you might not even get round to casting that spell (which, of course, provokes yet another time). I'm only 2nd level, so I pretty much have to stick to regular attacks. But even there giving me three chances (not to mention benefits for a prone opponent) might make you regret choosing that strategy.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

JohnF wrote:
Painlord wrote:
I suppose if you really want pain, you can free action drop to the ground, then move action to stand up, also provoking.
For extra benefits, do that next to my (or Clifford's ...) monk. Vicious Stomp will get you attacked when you fall down, and with Combat Reflexes you'll get hit on the way back up as well. Clifford probably has all sorts of extra little options he can call on, too, so you might not even get round to casting that spell (which, of course, provokes yet another time). I'm only 2nd level, so I pretty much have to stick to regular attacks. But even there giving me three chances (not to mention benefits for a prone opponent) might make you regret choosing that strategy.

Obviously, you wouldn't use the "Pre-Provoke" strategy against an enemy that's likely to have Combat Reflexes.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Obviously, you wouldn't use the "Pre-Provoke" strategy against an enemy that's likely to have Combat Reflexes.

Or one who can take half your hp away with a single strike. ;)

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Obviously, you wouldn't use the "Pre-Provoke" strategy against an enemy that's likely to have Combat Reflexes.
Or one who can take half your hp away with a single strike. ;)

Actually, that's potentially exactly who you want to use it on. If they can half-kill you on an AoO, then they could whole-kill you on a full-attack. If they can kill you on their turn, but you can turn the fight around if this spell goes off (or escape via invisibility or some such), this might be just the strategy you need.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Obviously, you wouldn't use the "Pre-Provoke" strategy against an enemy that's likely to have Combat Reflexes.
Or one who can take half your hp away with a single strike. ;)
Actually, that's potentially exactly who you want to use it on. If they can half-kill you on an AoO, then they could whole-kill you on a full-attack. If they can kill you on their turn, but you can turn the fight around if this spell goes off (or escape via invisibility or some such), this might be just the strategy you need.

For escape spells like dimension door, maybe. Invisibility, if you've already wasted your actions, sure you're invisible, but it's only a 50% miss chance.

Other things to watch out for are creatures with grab. That AoO might get you grappled.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Obviously, you wouldn't use the "Pre-Provoke" strategy against an enemy that's likely to have Combat Reflexes.
Or one who can take half your hp away with a single strike. ;)
Actually, that's potentially exactly who you want to use it on. If they can half-kill you on an AoO, then they could whole-kill you on a full-attack. If they can kill you on their turn, but you can turn the fight around if this spell goes off (or escape via invisibility or some such), this might be just the strategy you need.
For escape spells like dimension door, maybe. Invisibility, if you've already wasted your actions, sure you're invisible, but it's only a 50% miss chance.

Actually, here's a good example: your messageboard avatar. I don't know its name or its stats, but I fought one and it had a nasty full-attack and was invisible. If a caster suspected they were next to it but couldn't really get away, Pre-Provoking before casting glitterdust or faerie fire would be a viable tactic.

Quote:
Other things to watch out for are creatures with grab. That AoO might get you grappled.

Indeed, that would be a time to NOT Pre-Provoke. :P

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
your messageboard avatar.

Avatar? That's a personal portrait.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
your messageboard avatar.
Avatar? That's a personal portrait.

Oh. In that case, I apologize for having kept you flat on your back for about a minute and a half while my allies pummeled you into submission.

Also, what creature name are you called by? I'd like to look you up and see all your statistical glory.


Kinda similar experience. One time back in 3.x, I had a gnome barbarian with high DR, high HP, decent dex, decent AC, improved initiative. Giants with reach kept bashing our squishies. So a common tactic became for Gormsh to run around proving attacks of opportunity that he could survive if they happened to hit. Then everyone else could maneuver or cast as they wished.

*****

Jiggy wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
your messageboard avatar.
Avatar? That's a personal portrait.
Oh. In that case, I apologize for having kept you flat on your back for about a minute and a half

snickers and walks away

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Of course, this only works until they figure out what you're doing and start saving their AoO's. But even one Pre-Provoke can work wonders in the right situation.

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

Alex Draconis wrote:
He's avoiding the injured while casting concentration check by provoking before starting the spell. It's a dangerous tactic to say the least.

Alex, I did that exact same maneuver with my gnome oracle of battle in one of the games you ran.

Cheliax *

Will Johnson wrote:
Alex Draconis wrote:
He's avoiding the injured while casting concentration check by provoking before starting the spell. It's a dangerous tactic to say the least.
Alex, I did that exact same maneuver with my gnome oracle of battle in one of the games you ran.

Indeed, Everwar 3 or 4 as I recall. I remember wishing I had a bite/grabber. Which is exactly what Kita my new character is.

I made her specifically to lock down foes so the rest of the party can pummel on them. Mages are her favorite snack.

Society foes are usually less specialized so you can get away with those kind of shenanigans. That's kinda why I wish they'd open up more usable material for scenario writers.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Also, what creature name are you called by? I'd like to look you up and see all your statistical glory.

The creature that looks similar to me was an efreeti great ghul sorcerer.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Also, what creature name are you called by? I'd like to look you up and see all your statistical glory.
The creature that looks similar to me was an efreeti great ghul sorcerer.

Having trouble finding it. Link?

Cheliax *

Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Also, what creature name are you called by? I'd like to look you up and see all your statistical glory.
The creature that looks similar to me was an efreeti great ghul sorcerer.

Then he beheaded it and stole its juicy powers as there can be only one.

I'm sorely tempted to see what the Baird fuss is all about.
I haven't even been moderately challenged since Pain turned Lady Nocturne into a pony and Dismissed her in midair. He was cranky that day. }; P

*****

Jiggy wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Also, what creature name are you called by? I'd like to look you up and see all your statistical glory.
The creature that looks similar to me was an efreeti great ghul sorcerer.
Having trouble finding it. Link?

i think that the guhl is in the Bestiary 2.... not sure if the efeeti template is liste in there or not ... but pm me the name of the scenario.. i have a feeling i know which one it is and i can pm you the stat block

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Also, what creature name are you called by? I'd like to look you up and see all your statistical glory.
The creature that looks similar to me was an efreeti great ghul sorcerer.
Having trouble finding it. Link?

Best link I can provide.

Cheliax *

Linky

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Reading back I'm getting a lot of usage out of the list of expectations. I also have to thank Jiggy, et al for being as cool as you were to me when I first came to the boards and posted my thoughts on this topic without considering the fact that PFS charas are trained Pathfinder agents, and would have foreknowledge of these situations.

Cheers for being a great community.

Shadow Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I had "listed" this thread to show some players who expressed some interest in learning "more tricks" to being great at PFS, but now the post doesn't show up for me... has it disappeared for anyone else?

EDIT: Apparently 20+ of the posts I had "listed" as good PFS resources/threads for my local players to find have also disappeared... now I'm worried.

Silver Crusade **

Ditto. The first post of the thread has gone "poof". Looks like the latest update broke a few things...

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