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Inappropriate Size Weapons


Rules Questions


So my question is pretty simple. A human fighter wielding a large scimitar two-handed takes the -2 wrong weapon size penalty?

Cheliax

Yes.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes, that is correct.

”SRD” wrote:
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

Shadow Lodge

wild_captain wrote:

So my question is pretty simple. A human fighter wielding a large scimitar two-handed takes the -2 wrong weapon size penalty?

Yeah. The handle is the wrong shape to be wielded in two hands, the balance is off for someone with short arms, the handle is too thick etc.

I've always played it that you could do a little nip and a tuck and turn it into the medium sized version of the weapon its emmulating. In this case, a falchion.


Yep.

In some cases, if you don't get any advantage doing so, I house rule smaller penalties or no penalties.
I.e. I allow the use of a medium sized dagger as a small sized short sword, it is kind of Tolkienish.


Now why to take the -2 penalty while the large scimitar is now a two-handed weapon rather than one-hande for a medium character? Does he take the penalty when he wield it with two hands?

SRD Inappropriately Sized Weapons:
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

Compare this large scimitar to the closest weapon it can be compared the falchion. Scimitar 1d8 18-20/x2 while the Falchion does 2d4 18-20/x2 so its better in terms of damage.

In my original question i mean how can he take a penalty while he is wielding a two-handed weapon with his two hands? It just dont make sense. Think that the scimitar which originally is a one-handed weapon now becomes large scimitar that for medium characters becomes a two-handed weapon.


Because a large scimitar is designed to be a 1 handed weapon for a large creature, not a two handed weapon for a medium creature. The weight and balance (and size) of it are all wrong- thus the penalty.

If he wants to avoid the penalty he can go get a falchion. Its properly balanced for his size.

-S


Selgard wrote:

Because a large scimitar is designed to be a 1 handed weapon for a large creature, not a two handed weapon for a medium creature. The weight and balance (and size) of it are all wrong- thus the penalty.

If he wants to avoid the penalty he can go get a falchion. Its properly balanced for his size.

-S

Actually it is a 3.5 thing.

In 3.0 the rules and the logic behind those rules were different. I.e. A small creature could use a light medium creture as a one handed weapon.

I'm not sure, but I suspect that it was changed because the 3.0 rules were problematic when you stacked Enlarge spells, huge weapons, etc..


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Selgard wrote:

Because a large scimitar is designed to be a 1 handed weapon for a large creature, not a two handed weapon for a medium creature. The weight and balance (and size) of it are all wrong- thus the penalty.

If he wants to avoid the penalty he can go get a falchion. Its properly balanced for his size.

-S

This is basically it.


I also have a question:

- is a possible for a character to wield a pole-arm (glaive, fuachard, bill, etc.) that is a size too large, at a -2 penalty?

- would this weapon grant 15ft of reach, rather than the 10 at "appropriate size"?


Scimitar's new size is two-handed for medium, 8 lbs
Falchion two-handed for medium, 8 lbs

Both are weapons so balanced i dont see difference, but i'll accept it


Kilbourne wrote:
is a possible for a character to wield a pole-arm (glaive, fuachard, bill, etc.) that is a size too large, at a -2 penalty?

No. The rules do not allow for a Medium character to wield a large two-handed weapon.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I swear, it seems to be addressing the same problem twice. We want it to be worse for you to use an inappropriate weapon, so you take a -2 to using it AND you have to use an extra hand on it. And on top of that, it usually has worse stats than something for your size. Oh well. Guess you just have to deal with Small and Large weapons being useless for most party members.


AvalonXQ wrote:
No. The rules do not allow for a Medium character to wield a large two-handed weapon.

Ok, thanks.


Guys you still dont undestand the situation. First of all no medium character can wield a large two-handed weapon. He can wield a medium two-handed weapon. The large scimitar is a medium two-handed weapon OR a large one-handed weapon. The medium character can not wield any weapon as a weapon of his size if its large or small.

So in the case the human fighter can not in any way wield a large pole-arm
because the new size category is large two-handed not medium two-handed

Also he can not wield a small dagger because now it's small light weapon not medium light weapon.

BUT the large scimitar is a medium two-handed weapon so he can wield it with his two hands but he can not in any way hold it in one hand and fight because when he do so the weapon is not for his size.

Also larger weapons held by smaller creatures have the creatures reach and not weapon's size reach.

Hope i made it clear.Now to support the RAW or the RAI is in everyone's judgement


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
wild_captain wrote:

Scimitar's new size is two-handed for medium, 8 lbs

Falchion two-handed for medium, 8 lbs

Both are weapons so balanced i dont see difference, but i'll accept it

I had a hard time grasping the penalty too until I looked at some toy weapons designed for little kids (effectively be small weapons) and saw how they fit in my hands. Even a small two-handed weapon (medium one-handed weapon) would have a small grip.

Likewise a weapon designed for someone 10 foot tall would have a haft or hilt thicker than what would be natural for a medium creature.


wild_captain wrote:
The large scimitar is a medium two-handed weapon OR a large one-handed weapon.

No, it's not.

The Large scimitar is a Large one-handed weapon. It is not a Medium two-handed weapon.
It can be wielded by a Medium character as a two-handed weapon with a -2 penalty.


A caber is effectively a huge polearm.
On the other hand, it can only be tossed, not wielded.
Please let me know if any Scotsmen have a sword fight with cabers on Utube.

Andoran

There are a couple of YouTube viodeos where some dude made real steel swords pattern after Guts's sword from the Anime/Manga series Berserk.

The sword is freakin' huge, and eventhough the guy who made it is no pipsqueek (I'd say probably 6'3" and about 255 lbs.), it takes a monumental effort to hit a stack of cargo pallets. It would be highly unlikely that he could hit a moving target in one-on-one combat. He would have no trouble hitting a phalanx or tight pike formation, though.


Cuchulainn wrote:

There are a couple of YouTube viodeos where some dude made real steel swords pattern after Guts's sword from the Anime/Manga series Berserk.

The sword is freakin' huge, and eventhough the guy who made it is no pipsqueek (I'd say probably 6'3" and about 255 lbs.), it takes a monumental effort to hit a stack of cargo pallets. It would be highly unlikely that he could hit a moving target in one-on-one combat. He would have no trouble hitting a phalanx or tight pike formation, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR1gCSO9NB0

Pallets are very hard to break up.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Cuchulainn wrote:

There are a couple of YouTube viodeos where some dude made real steel swords pattern after Guts's sword from the Anime/Manga series Berserk.

The sword is freakin' huge, and eventhough the guy who made it is no pipsqueek (I'd say probably 6'3" and about 255 lbs.), it takes a monumental effort to hit a stack of cargo pallets. It would be highly unlikely that he could hit a moving target in one-on-one combat. He would have no trouble hitting a phalanx or tight pike formation, though.

Now give that guy the strength of a hill giant. His light load is 266lbs, and he can lift 800lbs over his head. Would he have the same problems?

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