| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. |
I haven't been able to find any rules that state whether or not an Oracle can take a particular Revelation more than once. While some Revelations would have no additional effect if taken more than once, others would.
Is there an official ruling limiting an Oracle to only taking a specific Revelation once?
Yeah, I was fairly certain of that, but it would be nice to have it spelled out specifically.
I had the time to review both the Core Rulebook and the APG. With the exception of the Oracle, all other classes (base, prestige, & archetypes) that grant the character a choice of abilities from a list (rage powers, rogue talents, alchemist discoveries, witch hexes, etc.) also have a sentence stating "cannot take [ability] more than once." (Though the barbarian entry says "unless otherwise noted...", as some rage powers can be taken more than once).
I agree that based on the other classes, it's unlikely that the Oracle would be able to select a Revelation more than once, but all other classes EXPLICITLY state that.
This being the case, I feel that it was merely an oversight on the part of Paizo. Just proof that they are mere mortals like the rest of us (and if they weren't, why would they be making games instead of saving/ruling the world?
|
Unless it specifies otherwise, you can only ever take a class feature/feat/ability once.
I don't suppose you could provide a page reference for this rule? I'm not talking about it being stated under a specific class feature (such as rogue talents). I'm talking about a general rule, such as you stated above.
If such a rule doesn't exist, then I certainly don't see the issue with an Oracle of Battle taking Weapon Mastery for two different weapons or Maneuver Mastery for two different maneuvers.
If such a general rule existed (where?), it seems at the least completely superfluous that almost every other class has specific wording to the same effect. It may well be Errata that Oracle didn`t include this wording, but until that`s verified it would seem the RAW contains no such limit on Oracle Revelations.
Though some Revelations clearly could be beneficial when taken twice (e.g. Weapon Mastery taken with different weapons, as Heymitch mentions), I`m not sure how to handle the same Revelation taken twice which DOESN`T have distinct options, but has usages/day: Would each (identical) Revelation have their own usage pool, or would it be superfluous since each Revelation grants the same ability with the same usages (i.e. taking X Revelation a second time doesn`t INCREASE the usages, but only re-iterates that you can use it X/day, for example).
If such a general rule existed (where?), it seems at the least completely superfluous that almost every other class has specific wording to the same effect. It may well be Errata that Oracle didn`t include this wording, but until that`s verified it would seem the RAW contains no such limit on Oracle Revelations.
Though some Revelations clearly could be beneficial when taken twice (e.g. Weapon Mastery taken with different weapons, as Heymitch mentions), I`m not sure how to handle the same Revelation taken twice which DOESN`T have distinct options, but has usages/day: Would each (identical) Revelation have their own usage pool, or would it be superfluous since each Revelation grants the same ability with the same usages (i.e. taking X Revelation a second time doesn`t INCREASE the usages, but only re-iterates that you can use it X/day, for example).
Working within RAW, unless it said specifically "this would increase the number of times per day you can use this ability" the stacking rules would come into effect, no?
Sure you can take this revelation that allows you to cast wish once per day three times, but as it is the same ability you still can only cast it once per day. And sure you can take this revelation that gives weapon focus and choose 3 different weapons each time, but as the ability didn't say you can have multiple versions, only the most recent choice would grant the benefit (being the last version where the choice was made, taking effect). If that version were somehow "lost", like losing a level by dying and thus losing the revelation, the most recent version (2nd choice) would kick in and that would be in effect.
1st part: (usages) exactly what I`m saying...
2nd part: Saying ´only the most recent version would take effect´ is effectively talking about stacking, but since each version doesn`t effect the same things there is no stacking to worry about... Thus it doesn`t need any special wording allowing multiple versions to be taken.
What do Feats say:
I can`t find any other restriction on taking Feats more than once, and the wording in this sentence is obviously pre-supposing that one CAN take a Feat more than once in the first place. If taking two different ´versions´ of a Feat doesn`t bring up a stacking situation, there isn`t actually any special wording needed to allow taking 2 different ´versions ´(though Weapon F/Skill F actually do so just for clarity).
Oracle Revelations are lacking this specific line (and any other restriction on multiple Revelations), but this specific line is really just a re-hash of the ´same source doesn`t stack´ rule, so as long as selecting the same Revelation more than once doesn´t introduce a STACKING scenario, one should get the full benefit from each Revelation separately.
The fact the ability technically has the same name seems irrelevant to me - Paizo even has the habit of publishing COMPLETELY different Class Abilities using the exact same name, and if one could only benefit from a given Ability NAME once time, one couldn`t use both such same-named Class Abilities. Revelations allowing selectable benefits (e.g. Weapon Master granting ´scaling´ Free Feat lists, the specific Feats of which vary depending on what Weapon you choose for the Revelation) are in effect completely different effects depending on which Weapon is chosen (the component Bonus Feats all are either distinct Feats or specifically say that different versions can be taken and apply to different weapons - the fact you gain them as Bonus Feats via a Class Ability wouldn´t seem to change this). If one extended the logic you propose, one couldn`t be affected by BOTH Energy Resistance (Cold) and Energy Resistance (Acid), yet I`m 99% certain that is completely allowed by RAI and RAW. Obviously, picking Weapon Master: Pick twice would have no additional effect.
Anyways, I don´t see any problem with this set-up as I describe it: from a brief review of the APG, no Revelations grant INCREASES of usages, meaning you can`t get more usages thru taking a Revelation twice, and Weapon Master and Maneuver Master seem to be the only ´selectable´ Revelations (which are essetially Bonus Feats), which I don´t see a problem with allowing. That said, it seems reasonable (and in line with Paizo´s ´editing standards´ for similar situations, e.g. other selectable Class Abilities) to issue a consise clarification of this issue, which would probably be just a simple ´Revelations selected multiple times don´t stack unless explicitly allowed´.
Just spoke to Jason, you're not supposed to be able to take a particular rev more than once. We're adding it to the things to update, and I'm going to do a FAQ item about it now.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
just over 6 years, good job. I'm sure your comment was needed on this thread.