| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I'm a bit confused on how the bard's Loremaster ability works. The bard in my group has been using it frequently, which I don't have a problem, but I find the wording of the ability a little ambiguous. I tried scouring a previous thread on this same issue, but it rather veered off in a different direction than what I'm looking for.
Lore Master (Ex): At 5th level, the bard becomes a master of lore and can take 10 on any Knowledge skill check that he has ranks in. A bard can choose not to take 10 and can instead roll normally.
From what I can tell, a RAW reading of this ability says it does . . . absolutely nothing (other than the take 20 part I didn't link). Unlike some class abilities, such as the rogue's Skill Mastery talent, it does not explicitly state that it allows the character to take 10 in a situation where "stress and distraction would otherwise prevent him from doing so." It simply allows the bard to take ten, in general . . . but everyone can already do this. So what's the point of this ability?
Was it the intention of the writers to allow the bard to take ten even in combat?
And a second question, can you "take 10" reactively? That is, can you take when you, say, come up to an old castle and the DM asks you to make an Architecture and Engineering check? Or can you only take 10 when you, the player, are actively using the skill?
|
I believe it is so to allow them to take 10 in combat, and under other conditions that would otherwise prevent this. The text specifying this is absent but short of this interpretation this part of the ability is useless. The real meat to this class feature however is the capability to take a 20 a certain number of times a day.
When a bard has sufficient ranks and modifiers, let' ball park this at about a +10 to the skill, it would allow him to fore go the risk associated with rolling a knowledge check in a situation and risking rolling a 1 through 9.
In a situation where the party needs to know some tough answers to local laws in Chelix? Well with the above 5th level bard taking 10, and riding a cool total of 20 for his Knowledge law the party could avoid some serious slip ups when dealing with the Hellknights. Now if that bard choose to roll he has 45% chance of getting less than that 10... perhaps even rolling a dreaded one... and leading to someone questioning the undisputed superiority of Asmodeus and his well deserved ruling.
Or a low roll when fighting a vampire and trying to determine the best route to killing it. Wooden stakes and sunlight? No you fools, you have to disable its powers by stealing its right sock and beating it with a sack of herbs! What herbs? Well... hmm... sage would work... and rosemary and a bit of wolfsbane. No thyme. Undead do not age and are thus immune to the passage of thyme.
Also, the ability to just declare a 20 once or more a day for a knowledge will teach those finger wagglers and sword singers to never question why they brought a minstrel into a dungeon in the first place.
-----
I would assume taking 10 in combat would work for a bard as you need to figure out just what you are dealing with. You take your action humming to yourself as you think back over all the stories you read and legends. You heard so many, so there must be something at the ready to draw upon.
Second questions answer. He is asking you how much you know about something, and as a standard action you can take 6 seconds to think of a 20 +mod check answer. Or even a 10 +check answer. you are after all a master of lore.
I believe it is so to allow them to take 10 in combat, and under other conditions that would otherwise prevent this. The text specifying this is absent but short of this interpretation this part of the ability is useless. The real meat to this class feature however is the capability to take a 20 a certain number of times a day.
Here is the part you are looking for:
When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.
But yeah the big part is the taking 20... over all this is a "minor perk" ability for the bard -- something useful but not a regular occurance.
I do know about the worth of the second part of the ability. I'm really only curious about the first part, but thank you for the responses so far. :)
So no one really knows what the take-10 part of this ability does/is supposed to do?
Abraham already answered your question, "When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10"
you may take 10 even when in danger or distracted.
Undead do not age and are thus immune to the passage of thyme.
Funny!
He is asking you how much you know about something, and as a standard action you can take 6 seconds to think of a 20 +mod check answer.
Making a knowledge check isn't an action (unless you're spending hours in a library looking something up) so either the Bard knows it or he doesn't, but it doesn't take any time to figure out.
Knowledge - "Action: Usually none. In most cases, a Knowledge check doesn't take an action (but see "Untrained," below)."
OP: Even though it doesn't specify 'under stress' I think you could read it that way due to "take 10 on any Knowledge skill check..." which would include ones made under stress.
Now we just need a campaign for the Archivist Bard's version of Lore Master to include the take-10 rule.