Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

PaizoCon 2014!

Summoner as a level dip


Advice


My friend was talking about doing a pirate campaign in the shackles and it got me thinking about possible characters I could put together. When one of my friends quipped about having a parrot with an eye patch, a peg leg, and a hook for a wing as a wizard's familiar, I started thinking about how we could make it work. And then it hit me.

Spoiler:
Recipe for Mr. Cotton (pirate) Summoner 1/Rogue x

Go TWF with a rogue build, have a 11 or 12 Cha. Take one level of Summoner, get the spells: Grease, Expeditious retreat, or whatever you like, and build the parrot as an Eidolon.

Blackbeak the Eidolon

Base form quadruped?
size small

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 11
Int 7
Wis 10
Cha 13

Feats: Skill focus: Intimidate
Evolutions: Skilled (Intimidate), Ability Increase (Charisma)

Do what you like with the skill points, just allocate one for Intimidate (pretty sure it is a class skill. This should give your parrot an intimidate score of 16, which should be pretty much automatic against 6 HD creatures and lower, and has a maybe a 50/50 shot on creatures between 12 and 16 HD depending on their wisdom score.

Then take some Rogue (or possibly fighter) levels and be sure to get Shatter defenses and have the parrot intimidate everything you run into.

Have fun.

Then I thought of this idea.

Spoiler:

Gronag the Fighter and Bobo the Golden Wonder Monkey.

Summoner 4/Fighter X

Build Gronag as you would any other fighter, or even go Paladin if you are feeling crazy, just make sure you got a 12 Cha. Go with whatever spells you like for 1st level, but make sure you get Lesser Evolution surge (for utility) and Haste (because its awesome). By getting to level four, you get the Shield bonus to AC when your Eidolon is near you (i.e. using you for cover), and the bonuses to all your saves. If you absolutely have to, go to level five and get craft wand, but hopefully you should not have to do this.

Four levels of Summoner will only have you at -1 BAB from full fighters. Sure you might lose a few things that straight up fighters enjoy, like more feats, but the two handed build doesn't require as many feats, and still puts out some major damage.

Bobo should get a similar build to Blackbeak, with feats in Skill Focus UMD and Stealth. Use your extra evolution points to bump Charisma and Intelligence. Dump the rest of your skill points into whatever is a class skill, especially the knowledges, or some "trained only" skills, and then use evolution surge to gain a + 8 to any knowledge or skill you might need. At level 1 Summoner you should be able to also pick various other skills to help out the party. Need disable device or slight of hand? You got a "thief" that comes back the next day if he fails. Got some knowledges that are not covered in the party? You still get a chance to find out that crucial information.

Give the wonder monkey a bunch of wands and have him buff you with haste, or expeditious retreat, or enlarge person as you run into battle. Have him use a grease wand in front of the bad guys. At level 4 his skill should be 19 with UMD, and so wands should be pretty much automatic, even using a cure light after battle to heal you up, or even keep you from bleeding out. He can also avoid combat with a stealth of 25 if my math is right.

Due to the nature of these ideas, the Eidolons made though level dips can be used for comic relief during campaigns, as even if you "kill" them, they come back just fine the next day. And even without them, your low level summons can be useful for distractions and even some utility. Don't want to swim across the moat without your Full Plate? Try summoning a dolphin to help you cross (only 35% chance of failure that it comes, 80-90% chance it gets you in a discussion how much a dolphin can actually help you across a moat when you are wearing full plate.)

Anyway, just thought I would throw that up there so the rules monkeys could come and tell me what I did wrong before I show this to my DM. He's busy, you know. He doesn't need to be bothered with silly things that can't/shouldn't be done.


I really like your idead, those class-dips might not be that good for wizards, but they are very interesting for rogues/fighters. Altough you probably shouldn't rely on the eidolon to be the thief.

One thing tough, I think the parrot is biped, and needs the wing evolution. Perhaps at less cost, because your arms are your wings.
A big problem tough is, that a parrot is smaller than small. Flying monkeys might do the trick ;) they've got arms and wings and are small, and are way cooler than a parrot


Richard Leonhart wrote:

I really like your idead, those class-dips might not be that good for wizards, but they are very interesting for rogues/fighters. Altough you probably shouldn't rely on the eidolon to be the thief.

One thing tough, I think the parrot is biped, and needs the wing evolution. Perhaps at less cost, because your arms are your wings.
A big problem tough is, that a parrot is smaller than small. Flying monkeys might do the trick ;) they've got arms and wings and are small, and are way cooler than a parrot

I went with Quadruped for two reasons: he only had one wing, and a hook for the other, so in game terms, he wouldn't be able to fly. Second reason, I can't get the flight evolution until level 5 anyway. In game terms he would get only the bite (peck) for very little damage. It seemed like a good fit for what it could do. I could always just change what it appeared as, but it just seemed cool this way, and I didn't think it would break the system too much.


the only "problem" I see is that your perrot is damaged already when cast, and has wooden things on him, I guess he wasn't born that way. I really doubt that your DM will deny you the cool perrot, but per rules it might not be 100% legal. He might drop the wooden parts everytime he vanishes when you sleep.

Quadruped makes sense in this situation, altough in general you should look at the healthy counterpart of your creature.

When asking your GM about it, you may ask if he is okay with spontanious skill-wonder for knowledge skills. By rules it's surely okay, but it is still a bit weird, if he tries to keep everything realisticly, there might be some issues.


rule of cool wins


Hmmm, that's a LOT of poking and prodding to smash a parrot into a small essentially wingless creature. Why wouldn't you just take a level of Wizard and have a Raven (aka parrot) or monkey? You would get a better spell selection for a "dip class" and a book to gather as many 1st levels spells as you can learn. Mage Armor & Shield being priority, before you can get your hands on a mithril chain shirt, possibly of Twilight(-10% ASF, +1 bonus, magic item compendium) The first few levels everyone fights about the same, take it first.

Full plate on a pirate?! :\ Sounds like the fastest way to Davie Jones' Locker to me!

I liked Richard's Flying Monkey idea, even though it would probably never fly.

If you're truly hellbent on dipping into Summoner, what about something as the APG says "fantastical"? Medium sized Land Squid, how odd would THAT be? Comic relief via tentacle humor?

Quote:

Kalamari: Ugly 5 legged LAND SQUID (or Octopus)

PICTURE, PICTURE 2
(missing 3 legs, they could be stubs or just inert weight support like training wheels on a bike)
Quadraped: Bite, Legs x2(look like tentacles)
3 pts. - Tentacle x1, Reach and Pull (reach and pull could be anything really. Weapon training rapier? It doesn't say you can't use a weapon with a tentacle! XD)

----- OR ------

Biped: Clawed Arms(2 spined tentacles) & Legs(larger support tentacles)
3 pts. - Tentacle x1, Reach(on arms) and Pull
(Also missing/inert 3 tentacles... This build has 3 natural attacks the other only has 2.)


isn't the wooden legged perrot fantastical, just as the smartest chess-playing monkey?

not but seriously, for a short dip, you risk awefully lot with a familiar. He can die, your eidolon gets banished and can be called back, free.
Also the monkey variant depends on being an eidolon (evolution surge), the perrot not so much.
Also, as the monkey user gets haste, it's quite a good selection. Don't underestimate the summoner.

The perrot might be good at the beginning, but later a lvl as witch might be better to get such a perrot. Or just be a witch 1, summoner 4 rest warrior and get both ^^


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think it's a fine idea. You've got a nice small parrot (a small parrot would be fantastical). I think you'd be fine with a biped though.

As to the wooden parts, that's part of his body. He doesn't leave them behind. Remember, the body is whatever the summoner builds, his wooden leg is just that, his wooden leg. Same with the eyepatch. It's no different than imagining the eidelon as being an 8 foot tall four armed red devil with plate mail armor (not wearing real armor, just that his body always has armor on it, ie: his natural armor).

I'd go with the following :

Petey the Parrot

Small Biped

Petey is 3 foot tall, has neon green and electric blue feathers in an alternating array. His left leg is wooden from the knee down, and he walks with a distinct drag/clack sound. His wings (one of which is damaged beyond the ability to fly) end in humanoid hands. A pair of leather wrist straps hold retractable daggers that he uses with great flurish (claws evolution). His beak is large, and very sharp (bite evolution, 1 pt). He's also rather crafty (Improved Attribute (Int)).

His feat would be Dodge, and he'd have some Profession (Sailor) ranks, as well as Perception and Knowledge (Engineering) to know about shipbuilding. :)


Daniel Moyer wrote:

Hmmm, that's a LOT of poking and prodding to smash a parrot into a small essentially wingless creature. Why wouldn't you just take a level of Wizard and have a Raven (aka parrot) or monkey? You would get a better spell selection for a "dip class" and a book to gather as many 1st levels spells as you can learn. Mage Armor & Shield being priority, before you can get your hands on a mithril chain shirt, possibly of Twilight(-10% ASF, +1 bonus, magic item compendium) The first few levels everyone fights about the same, take it first.

Full plate on a pirate?! :\ Sounds like the fastest way to Davie Jones' Locker to me!

I liked Richard's Flying Monkey idea, even though it would probably never fly.

If you're truly hellbent on dipping into Summoner, what about something as the APG says "fantastical"? Medium sized Land Squid, how odd would THAT be? Comic relief via tentacle humor?

Yeah, Richard said it pretty good, Familiars can die, and with the parrot build, you are getting a free intimidate every round that has good usefulness up through level 12 at least. Familiars can't do that either. In Rogue Eidolon's Rogue guide, it talks about how cool Shatter Defenses is for a rogue, and even though its not coming until level 9, it can really help increase the amount of your sneak attack options.

Also flavor. Imagine another summoner in the group, a full leveled one who goes with your Land Kraken idea (complete with burrow so it can "dive" on land at level 9) and the resident thief thinks that he can do just as well. He drops a level into summoner (does some rituals the other guy told him to do) and ends up with the parrot (by character design) and enormously is disappointed (in game). Gets to rag on the summoner for the rest of the game for "selling him a lame horse" and tell other people that he is untrustworthy. Thankfully that's not too much of a problem for a pirate, and life goes on.

Of course a small squid with an eyepatch and three wooden "legs" would be pretty awesome too.

The other reason to go with Summoner is the lack of need of spellbooks. They get wet really easy, and you are on a boat with tons of thieves. Of course, that doesn't work so well for the wand monkey either, so its not that great of a reason. Also, level dipping in wizard pretty much assumes you have to teach your pirate to read. There, that's a better reason.

Yeah, a pirate in full plate would be kinda dumb, but a lot of sailors couldn't swim back in the day. Helped keep desertion down. Also, the dolphin could rescue men overboard without slowing the boat too much, if the summoner was quick. (probably a better use of it, was really reaching for the last example)

mdt wrote:

I think it's a fine idea. You've got a nice small parrot (a small parrot would be fantastical). I think you'd be fine with a biped though.

As to the wooden parts, that's part of his body. He doesn't leave them behind. Remember, the body is whatever the summoner builds, his wooden leg is just that, his wooden leg. Same with the eyepatch. It's no different than imagining the eidelon as being an 8 foot tall four armed red devil with plate mail armor (not wearing real armor, just that his body always has armor on it, ie: his natural armor).

I'd go with the following :

Petey the Parrot

Hey, Petey looks like fun. I wouldn't play him, but that's what I got my ideas for.

I appreciate the support on having his wooden leg and such be part of his body. That's what I was thinking. The demon in the example made me laugh though. Imagine someone coming up and taking a closer look. "No mom, you were right, it IS painted on!"


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Another option would be to play an awakened Parrot who was a summoner, and his Eidelon was a 7 foot tall skeletal pirate ala Pirates of the Carribean. :)


mdt wrote:
Another option would be to play an awakened Parrot who was a summoner, and his Eidelon was a 7 foot tall skeletal pirate ala Pirates of the Carribean. :)

Oh, I gotta tell my friend this one. That's freakin' awesome.


For what it's worth, the best way to make the Eidelon intimidating that I've found:'

Form:
Medium Biped

Evolutions:
+2 to Strength (2)
Skilled (Intimidate, up to +8)

Skills
Max out Intimidate, make it a class skill.

Feat:
Intimidating Prowess

By my count, that's a base 20 at level 5 without buffing.


nategar05 wrote:

For what it's worth, the best way to make the Eidelon intimidating that I've found:'

Form:
Medium Biped

Evolutions:
+2 to Strength (2)
Skilled (Intimidate, up to +8)

Skills
Max out Intimidate, make it a class skill.

Feat:
Intimidating Prowess

By my count, that's a base 20 at level 5 without buffing.

My count says 21, see below for details...

Actually, if you want to max it, you can dump your ability score increase (which you get for your Eidolon at level 5) into Charisma, getting an additional +1

You get another feat at level 3, which you get +3 if you go with skill focus.

And if that isn't enough, you can "help" for an additional +2, which would give you a 27.

Of course, with buffing, you can evolution surge a +2 to cha, Eagle's Splendor and Bull's Strength and get another +5, leaving you at 32. That is, if your summoner has a 14 charisma and gets the bonus 2nd level spell.

But taking it up to level five, to me, doesn't really ring of a "dip" into summoner, but more of a dedication.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I think your count is off.

5 skill ranks
3 class skill
8 skilled
Str is base 16 +2 evolution +2 bonus for 5th level with total at 21. Adjusting numbers above now...

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Summoner as a level dip All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.