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When a monster(such as an outsider) has the summon SLA is it a standard action or is it a full round action since the summoning spells are a full round?
When a monster(such as an outsider) has the summon SLA is it a standard action or is it a full round action since the summoning spells are a full round?Standard action.
This leads into another question. Are all SLA's standard actions regardless of the spell casting time unless specifically called out by the SLA in question? I guess if I had been thinking I would have asked that first.
From the PRD:
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description
So basically, unless otherwise noted, any spellike ability has the casting time of the spell its based on. If it is not based on a spell, it's a standard actin unless noted otherwise.
By the way: The summoning spells of outsiders are NOT based on the summoning spells, otherwise they would be called "Summon Monster I-IX", like those of the summoner class. So an outsider needs a standard action to perform his summon abilty.
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@Blave
They are Summoning spells. Please have a look at the entry of the "Summon" Ability, i quote:
"A creature with the summon ability can summon other specific creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell...".
Summon Monster Spell = Full Round Action.
Regards, Calimar.
Source:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Summon-Sp-
I have been summoned... from the distant past!
Calimar_T you are incorrect.
Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise
Sorry.
Just had a discussion about it and didn't really look at the date and time of the thread.
Next time i will make a new thread about the same question.Regards,
Calimar.
It happens. I've accidentally necro'd a few, too. :)
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Calimar_T you are incorrect.
Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwiseSource
... unless noted otherwise, right.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Summon-Sp-
Does that count as "noted otherwise"?
Calimar_T you are incorrect.
Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwiseSource... unless noted otherwise, right.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Summon-Sp-
Does that count as "noted otherwise"?
Your link is broken.
Well since your link doesn't work, I don't know.
He meant this one.
A creature with the summon ability can summon other specific creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature’s entry). Roll d%: On a failure, no creature answers the summons. Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A creature summoned in this way cannot use any spells or spell-like abilities that require material components costing more than 1 gp unless those components are supplied, nor can it use its own summon ability for 1 hour. An appropriate spell level is given for each summoning ability for purposes of Will saves, caster level checks, and concentration checks. No experience points are awarded for defeating summoned monsters.
You have to pin your hopes of a full round casting on the "much as though" phrasing. How much, though? Is the only difference the limited chance of success and duration changes mentioned here? We don't know.
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Well, Slithery,
as the Casting Changes are not mentioned in the sentence were "as though" is mentioned, it *think* is safe to asume that the limited chance of success is what it refers to.
If it were for the Casting Changes, or anything else like somatic or verbal components, it would have been also mention, wouldn't it?
To sum up:
The differences between spells and slas are:
- no verbal (no exceptions),
- no somatic (no exceptions),
- no focus (no exceptions),
- and no material components (no exceptions).
- standard action (with the exception of being otherwise noted).
The only one thing being mentioned is:
- works "like" summoning monster, with limited success.
So: The "like summon monster" refers to limited success cause this sentence mentions nothing else as being different from Summon Monster.
Otherwise we have to wait for a Dev for an answer.
Can someone summon one? Do they need a sacrifice?
Regards, Calimar.
Unless noted otherwise, all spell-like abilities require a standard action to activate. I see nothing in the summon ability that notes otherwise.
Calimar_T you are incorrect.
Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwiseSource
Carl you are incorrect.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description.
The PRD magic rules (from the Core Rulebook, I believe) on spell-like abilities give more specificity than the Bestiary rules. If the monster summon ability doesn't specifically state a time, it defaults to the base spell casting time.
Basically both these rules are expressing an unnecessary, confusing, and obscured tautology. A spell-like ability always does what the base spell says, unless modified by the specific ability description of the monster in question. Since those are usually a standard action it's true but wasteful to say "it's always a standard action unless the spell says otherwise." Well the spell will always say otherwise unless it already said it was a standard action, in which case we should have just directly referenced the spell and never talked about standard actions in the spell-like ability descriptions.
Well apparently the rules contradict themselves.
FAQ'd. This is a problematic oversight in the rules.
They should have used the same language for both books. I flipped-flopped on this several times.
Technically there is no spell "summon monster", so there is no spell description to reference. Now if it said as though it were "summon monster I", it'd be a little more questionable.
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Technically there is no spell "summon monster", so there is no spell description to reference. Now if it said as though it were "summon monster I", it'd be a little more questionable.
Yeah, but we all know it refers to the "summon monster" line of spells.
I don't think it helps to get into technicalities when we know what the intent of the wording(summon monster) was. The goal here is to find how the SLA is supposed to work, not to get into a "how pandemic can we get" contest.Just to make sure you get what I am saying--> You are arguing against the words, and not the point that was presented. It does not help.
Calimar_T you are incorrect.
Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwiseSourceCarl you are incorrect.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description.The PRD magic rules (from the Core Rulebook, I believe) on spell-like abilities give more specificity than the Bestiary rules. If the monster summon ability doesn't specifically state a time, it defaults to the base spell casting time.
Basically both these rules are expressing an unnecessary, confusing, and obscured tautology. A spell-like ability always does what the base spell says, unless modified by the specific ability description of the monster in question. Since those are usually a standard action it's true but wasteful to say "it's always a standard action unless the spell says otherwise." Well the spell will always say otherwise unless it already said it was a standard action, in which case we should have just directly referenced the spell and never talked about standard actions in the spell-like ability descriptions.
There are spell-like abilities that do not have base spells. I think that the part about how it "has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise" is for such cases.
A similar issue is raised with the warpriest summoning blessings. They say they are a standard action unless specified otherwise. And the spell they act as specifies otherwise. Still, we fairly well know that the intent is for it to be a standard action because the wording from the beta was more explicit.
[The goal here is to find how the SLA is supposed to work, not to get into a "how pandemic can we get" contest.
Pedantic.
A similar issue is raised with the warpriest summoning blessings. They say they are a standard action unless specified otherwise. And the spell they act as specifies otherwise. Still, we fairly well know that the intent is for it to be a standard action because the wording from the beta was more explicit.
Those are both good points.
[The goal here is to find how the SLA is supposed to work, not to get into a "how pandemic can we get" contest.
Pedantic.
A similar issue is raised with the warpriest summoning blessings. They say they are a standard action unless specified otherwise. And the spell they act as specifies otherwise. Still, we fairly well know that the intent is for it to be a standard action because the wording from the beta was more explicit.Those are both good points.
I thought I fixed that. Oh well.
In beta, every blessing said what action it was in its description. The summoning ones were standard actions. In the final version, the standard action clauses were taken out of all standard action blessings and a line was added that all blessings are standard actions unless specified otherwise. This was obviously done to save room.