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Kobold Quarterly's spell-less ranger and the APG


Compatible Products from Other Publishers

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am playing a spell-less ranger (the KQ 11's variant by Marc Radle) in RotRL.

My DM sold it to me and, since the core ranger' spells were not that fantastic and my character's concept did not really fit with the flower power-like divine magic of the ranger, I was quite happy about my choice.

However, here comes the APG with some really nice spells for the ranger, as well as a slew of new possibilities (new feats, but also new talents for the Rogue and a spell-less ranger archetype with tricks).

I would like to know what new possibilities (ranger talents and ranger feats) would be ok for my spell-less ranger now that the APG is out.

If Mr Radle (who authored the class) can take some time to consider this, I would be quite grateful.

Liberty's Edge

I got an e-mail from a little birdie (OK, it was Wolfgang ;) ) pointing me to this thread.

First, I’m thrilled you are digging my Spell-less Ranger! In fact, the reactions I’ve seen since the issue came out have been very positive overall, which is really cool!

Hearing that people are using and enjoying something I’ve written (or illustrated, for that matter) is the main reason I do this … well, that and the nearly overwhelming fame, fabulous riches and hoards of groupies of course!

As for the spell-less Skirmisher ranger variant in the APG, it is in many ways extremely similar to my Spell-less Ranger, so I would not see any real problems with picking from the various Ranger Tricks and using them as additional Ranger Talents you can choose from. You would probably need to tone some down a bit, or otherwise modify some since the APG version limits the uses of the Ranger Tricks (I don’t have my book handy, but I think it’s something like 3 + CHA modifier times per day) while the Spell-less Ranger does not. Also, while they certainly could all work, some of the Tricks in the APG version don’t quite fit as well thematically with the KQ Spell-less Ranger, at least in my opinion.

While we are on this subject, I have to admit that wanting some additional Ranger Talents has been the number one request I have heard since the Spell-less Ranger came out. I think I might try and find some time to finally put some new Talents together. I’ll most likely tweak some of the Tricks from the APG that work particularly well and then add some additional new Talents of my own.

I also agree that there are some new APG feats that could certainly be added to the list of Ranger bonus feats. I’ll try to tackle this as well.

In fact, I can talk to Wolfgang and see if he would be interested in putting this on the KQ web site as bonus web content once I’m finished …


Marc Radle wrote:
As for the spell-less Skirmisher ranger variant in the APG, it is in many ways extremely similar to my Spell-less Ranger, so I would not see any real problems with picking from the various Ranger Tricks and using them as additional Ranger Talents you can choose from.

One of the things I said about the KQ Spell less ranger was that the idea was really cool and much better than the the PF Ranger. However, it needed more talents to round out the class. Another half dozen at least to choose from

The the APG version came out and, yes, the concept was very similiar and I couldnt agree more. Combining the two makes for a nice variety of talents to choose from.

Marc Radle wrote:

I also agree that there are some new APG feats that could certainly be added to the list of Ranger bonus feats. I’ll try to tackle this as well.

In fact, I can talk to Wolfgang and see if he would be interested in putting this on the KQ web site as bonus web content once I’m finished …

Please do that

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle wrote:
I got an e-mail from a little birdie (OK, it was Wolfgang ;) ) pointing me to this thread.

Wow. I am honored by such attention and wish to give you both my heartfelt thanks :-)

Quote:

As for the spell-less Skirmisher ranger variant in the APG, it is in many ways extremely similar to my Spell-less Ranger, so I would not see any real problems with picking from the various Ranger Tricks and using them as additional Ranger Talents you can choose from. You would probably need to tone some down a bit, or otherwise modify some since the APG version limits the uses of the Ranger Tricks (I don’t have my book handy, but I think it’s something like 3 + CHA modifier times per day) while the Spell-less Ranger does not. Also, while they certainly could all work, some of the Tricks in the APG version don’t quite fit as well thematically with the KQ Spell-less Ranger, at least in my opinion.

While we are on this subject, I have to admit that wanting some additional Ranger Talents has been the number one request I have heard since the Spell-less Ranger came out. I think I might try and find some time to finally put some new Talents together. I’ll most likely tweak some of the Tricks from the APG that work particularly well and then add some additional new Talents of my own.

Since your Spell-less Ranger has a kind of sneak-attack, I believe that some of the Rogue talents might be nice (expecially Hunter's surprise, if only for its name).

And an adaptation of the Sniper archetype of the Rogue class would be just great for my Archery Spell-less Ranger.

Quote:
I also agree that there are some new APG feats that could certainly be added to the list of Ranger bonus feats. I’ll try to tackle this as well.

You might want to give special consideration to the Teamwork feats, considering that a Ranger often has allies nearby ;-)

Quote:

In fact, I can talk to Wolfgang and see if he would be interested in putting this on the KQ web site as bonus web content once I’m finished …

That would be just great :-)


The black raven wrote:
Wow. I am honored by such attention and wish to give you both my heartfelt thanks :-)

I'll keep it going for ya. :) I've been playing a Spell-less Ranger in a friend's Pathfinder game, and enjoying it immensely. Very well done.

Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

I've got one player using the spell-less ranger in one of my games, while a fellow player is considering it for another campaign.

That variant has been getting some love our way.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

I see that class might work nicely with the Scout archetype in the APG.

Liberty's Edge

I'm working on this as we speak! I have well over a dozen new talents in the works as well as a new feat or two and some other cool stuff.

I'll keep everyone posted!

By the way, this is probably also a great place to add one official errata from the original article, but I'll post it here as well:

The Spell-less Ranger uses his FULL ranger level for his Hunter's Bond animal companion, just like he does if he takes the Additional Companion ranger talent. (Unfortunately this accidentally did not make it into the original article).

Liberty's Edge

Thank you for your efforts, Marc. They are really greatly appreciated.

I had seen the errata somewhere, but it is always a good thing to repeat.

Liberty's Edge

Hi all!

I promised I would keep everyone posted ...

The update is finished! There are over a dozen new ranger talents, as well as a few new ranger feats (although one of those feats will also be of interest to standard rangers and druids :) and a few other goodies as well.

It's been delivered to the the Kobold Mines ... we'll have to wait and see what happens next ...

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

The Kobolds are deep in the production of the Fall issue (articles accepted, edited, etc), and this one is more likely a Winter item. Or it could appear on the web site.

I'll know more in October.

Liberty's Edge

Wolfgang Baur wrote:

The Kobolds are deep in the production of the Fall issue (articles accepted, edited, etc), and this one is more likely a Winter item. Or it could appear on the web site.

I'll know more in October.

The kolbolds are indeed both wise and mysterious in their ways! :)


Spell-less ranger? Spell-less RANGER!!

I've been loving that idea for years, and have never ever found anything remotely interesting. I don't know what this one looks like, but based on the rave reviews here (and elsewhere), I just bought the KQ 11.

I really hope I like it.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've been playing a spell-less Urban ranger in a campaign, very nice. He went the natural weapons route (he's a catfolk with natural claws), and two companions (one tiger, one dire bat). Works very well. The dire bat works well for sending on errands in the city at night, and the tiger works well in combat (tiger is the higher level companion).

Did have to spend my starting gold on rings of sustenance for the companions though, couldn't afford to feed both in the city. :)


Malachi Tarchannen wrote:

Spell-less ranger? Spell-less RANGER!!

I've been loving that idea for years, and have never ever found anything remotely interesting. I don't know what this one looks like, but based on the rave reviews here (and elsewhere), I just bought the KQ 11.

I really hope I like it.

You will. It basically replaces spells with talents not too unlike rogue talents.

Liberty's Edge

Malachi Tarchannen wrote:


I really hope I like it.

Me too! :)

Malachi Tarchannen wrote:

Spell-less ranger? I've been loving that idea for years, and have never ever found anything remotely interesting. I don't know what this one looks like, but based on the rave reviews here (and elsewhere), I just bought the KQ 11.

I'd love to hear your thoughts once you've had a chance to read over the article and maybe even try the class out!

Liberty's Edge

A quide side note / FYI (although still partially related ...)

The is talk of maybe doing a Best of Kobold Quarterly magazine issue at some point. Nothing at all concrete at this point.

To that end however, there are polls going up over at www.koboldquarterly.com that let you vote for the best articles from each issue. Some of the issues are not up yet, but you can still head over and vote for those that are if you'd like.

Kobold Quarterly.

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

Excellent polls! Thank you for pulling those together, Marc!

Liberty's Edge

Wolfgang Baur wrote:
Excellent polls! Thank you for pulling those together, Marc!

No problem Wolfgang - glad I could help out!

Liberty's Edge

So we don't cross pollinate / thread jack this thread, allow me to point everyone to THIS thread for more complete details on the Best of voting (the polls are all live now, by the way)

Thanks!

VOTE

Liberty's Edge

Wolfgang Baur wrote:

The Kobolds are deep in the production of the Fall issue (articles accepted, edited, etc), and this one is more likely a Winter item. Or it could appear on the web site.

I'll know more in October.

I have not seen any thing like it yet. Did I miss something or is it planned for later this year (2011) ?

Sir Felix Einen, my 6-th (bordering on 7-th) level Spell-less Ranger in RotRL awaits this with great anticipation.

Liberty's Edge

The black raven wrote:
Wolfgang Baur wrote:

The Kobolds are deep in the production of the Fall issue (articles accepted, edited, etc), and this one is more likely a Winter item. Or it could appear on the web site.

I'll know more in October.

I have not seen any thing like it yet. Did I miss something or is it planned for later this year (2011) ?

Sir Felix Einen, my 6-th (bordering on 7-th) level Spell-less Ranger in RotRL awaits this with great anticipation.

I'm not quite sure where the new ranger talents will end up - only the All Knowing and All Powerful Supreme Kobold himself knows for sure ;)

I can say that an article that would be of interest to any ranger character (or other animal or nature oriented character) will be among the pages of the big summer issue of Kobold Quarterly. Hope that we help pass the time while you wait! :)

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

The big summer issue is always full of surprises, it's true. This year even more than usual.

And the Supreme Kobold only WISHES he were All Knowing and All Powerful. Hell, most kobolds know better, but the Supreme Kobold pretends to be All Knowing and All Powerful. Job requirement for the Supreme Kobold, really. ;)


Wolfgang Baur wrote:

The big summer issue is always full of surprises, it's true. This year even more than usual.

And the Supreme Kobold only WISHES he were All Knowing and All Powerful. Hell, most kobolds know better, but the Supreme Kobold pretends to be All Knowing and All Powerful. Job requirement for the Supreme Kobold, really. ;)

Further torment and anticipation. *sigh*


Marc Radle wrote:

By the way, this is probably also a great place to add one official errata from the original article, but I'll post it here as well:

The Spell-less Ranger uses his FULL ranger level for his Hunter's Bond animal companion, just like he does if he takes the Additional Companion ranger talent. (Unfortunately this accidentally did not make it into the original article).

By the way, does this mean he gets the AC at Level 1, or does he still wait until L4 and then suddenly get a 4th level AC?

Liberty's Edge

MultiClassClown wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:

By the way, this is probably also a great place to add one official errata from the original article, but I'll post it here as well:

The Spell-less Ranger uses his FULL ranger level for his Hunter's Bond animal companion, just like he does if he takes the Additional Companion ranger talent. (Unfortunately this accidentally did not make it into the original article).

By the way, does this mean he gets the AC at Level 1, or does he still wait until L4 and then suddenly get a 4th level AC?

The Spell-less Ranger still gets his animal companion at 4th level just like his spell-casting cousin. The Spell-less Ranger's animal companion is just more powerful when it first arrives (the animal companion's abilities are calculated using the ranger's full level - i.e level 4)


Marc Radle wrote:
MultiClassClown wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:

By the way, this is probably also a great place to add one official errata from the original article, but I'll post it here as well:

The Spell-less Ranger uses his FULL ranger level for his Hunter's Bond animal companion, just like he does if he takes the Additional Companion ranger talent. (Unfortunately this accidentally did not make it into the original article).

By the way, does this mean he gets the AC at Level 1, or does he still wait until L4 and then suddenly get a 4th level AC?

The Spell-less Ranger still gets his animal companion at 4th level just like his spell-casting cousin. The Spell-less Ranger's animal companion is just more powerful when it first arrives (the animal companion's abilities are calculated using the ranger's full level - i.e level 4)

Thanks for the clarification.

Liberty's Edge

Wolfgang Baur wrote:

The Kobolds are deep in the production of the Fall issue (articles accepted, edited, etc), and this one is more likely a Winter item. Or it could appear on the web site.

I'll know more in October.

Almost one year has passed, but I am still quite interested in Mark's work (and I will definitely spend time reading the KQ Summer issue).

Any news about the update for the spell-less Ranger ?

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

Yep, looks like it may be a bit bigger than a magazine article, but we'll have something to announce on this in the Fall.

Liberty's Edge

Wolfgang Baur wrote:
...we'll have something to announce on this in the Fall.

... and I think it will be pretty cool :)

Liberty's Edge

Wolfgang Baur wrote:
Yep, looks like it may be a bit bigger than a magazine article, but we'll have something to announce on this in the Fall.

Thanks a lot for the info, Wolfgang :-)

Marc Radle wrote:
... and I think it will be pretty cool :)

Awesome !!!

Contributor

Looking forward to seeing this coolness!

Liberty's Edge

Thanks everyone!

I'm hard at work as we speak :)

Silver Crusade

One of our players is using it since before there was any spell-less archetype for the ranger, but we removed the sneak attack.
I think this variant gains too much punch for the spellcasting it loses, especially when you look how it was handled by Paizo ; but even without sneak attack, the guy is still one of the most powerful and durable character in the campaign. We loved the "additional favored enemy/terrain" option though, it makes for a real scary guy against a lot of foes.

Liberty's Edge

Maxximilius wrote:

One of our players is using it since before there was any spell-less archetype for the ranger, but we removed the sneak attack.

I think this variant gains too much punch for the spellcasting it loses, especially when you look how it was handled by Paizo ; but even without sneak attack, the guy is still one of the most powerful and durable character in the campaign. We loved the "additional favored enemy/terrain" option though, it makes for a real scary guy against a lot of foes.

I guess that depends on which spells the Ranger has access to. When it was only Core, the spell-less Ranger was indeed better than the core Ranger, especially because of the Sneak Attack.

But if you add all the cool Ranger spells from the APG, a spell-less Ranger is not on par with a core Ranger, even with the sneak attack. And I am not even taking into account spells from UM and UC.

It is a big part of the reason why I started this thread in fact.

In particular, I hope for Ranger talents that can give a boost to Animal Companions, for example by sharing with them the Stealth Attack and Fast Movement class features or by giving an additional Feat to the AC.

Liberty's Edge

The black raven wrote:


In particular, I hope for Ranger talents that can give a boost to Animal Companions, for example by sharing with them the Stealth Attack and Fast Movement class features or by giving an additional Feat to the AC.

*** Looks around nervously ... ***

Hey, have you been reading my revised and expanded manuscript??? How did you get past security???

In all seriousness, I think you will be pleased with what you see ... once it is released, that is :)

Liberty's Edge

It. Is. Finished!!!

I'm honestly very happy with it and I can't wait to see what folks think :)

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle wrote:

It. Is. Finished!!!

I'm honestly very happy with it and I can't wait to see what folks think :)

I can't wait to read it. My scrying only allowed me to peruse a small part of it ;-)

I really enjoy your work, Marc (for example in this Summer issue of KQ). May you keep on showering us with new wonders in the ages to come.

Grand Lodge

Marc Radle wrote:

It. Is. Finished!!!

I'm honestly very happy with it and I can't wait to see what folks think :)

Cheers! I cannot wait.


Wolfgang Baur wrote:
Yep, looks like it may be a bit bigger than a magazine article, but we'll have something to announce on this in the Fall.

Wolfgang, just an FYI; the Kobold Quarterly link in your profile doesn't go anywhere.

Edit: Actually, none of them do.

Liberty's Edge

The black raven wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:

It. Is. Finished!!!

I'm honestly very happy with it and I can't wait to see what folks think :)

I can't wait to read it. My scrying only allowed me to peruse a small part of it ;-)

I really enjoy your work, Marc (for example in this Summer issue of KQ). May you keep on showering us with new wonders in the ages to come.

Thanks for the kind words everyone - it's really great to hear that people enjoy your work!

Until the expanded spell-less ranger comes out, check out the fall issue of Kobold Quarterly (not sure when it comes out ... October some time?). I have something in there I hope you all like!

Liberty's Edge

The black raven wrote:


In particular, I hope for Ranger talents that can give a boost to Animal Companions, for example by sharing with them the Stealth Attack and Fast Movement class features or by giving an additional Feat to the AC.

Just in case, I will add to my wishlist :

- A talent or Feat that allows a Spell-less Ranger to use Scrolls and Wands as if he had the usual Ranger's spellcasting ability

- An expanded list of "Ranger feats", including all Teamwork feats both past and future

Liberty's Edge

The black raven wrote:
The black raven wrote:


In particular, I hope for Ranger talents that can give a boost to Animal Companions, for example by sharing with them the Stealth Attack and Fast Movement class features or by giving an additional Feat to the AC.

Just in case, I will add to my wishlist :

- A talent or Feat that allows a Spell-less Ranger to use Scrolls and Wands as if he had the usual Ranger's spellcasting ability

- An expanded list of "Ranger feats", including all Teamwork feats both past and future

Well, the manuscript is currently now in the very capable claws of the Kobold-In-Chief and his kobold minions so ....

I can say that the list of bonus feats the Spell-less Ranger can choose from has indeed been expanded to include some new feats (including a few from the Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Combat and even a few brand new feats)

I probably shouldn't say any more though ... so consider my lips officially sealed until it actually comes out :)

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle wrote:

Well, the manuscript is currently now in the very capable claws of the Kobold-In-Chief and his kobold minions so ....

I can say that the list of bonus feats the Spell-less Ranger can choose from has indeed been expanded to include some new feats (including a few from the Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Combat and even a few brand new feats)

I probably shouldn't say any more though ... so consider my lips officially sealed until it actually comes out :)

Really, really looking forward to it :-)

Any idea on when we can expect it to come out ?

Liberty's Edge

The black raven wrote:

Really, really looking forward to it :-)

Any idea on when we can expect it to come out ?

Not sure, actually. Like I said, the manuscript is currently now in the very capable claws of the Kobold-In-Chief and his kobold minions. I know there is a LOT of cool stuff in the kobold-que ahead of this, so I can say with a fair amount of certainly that this will not be out in the next couple weeks or anything like that.

My best advice? Keep checking in, keep an eye on both the new product releases here on Paizo.com and on koboldquarterly.com.

Thanks for the continued interest - it means a lot to me :)

Oh, by the way, I did mention that I have a new Pathfinder base class in the new issue of Kobold Quarterly (#19), didn't I? ;)

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle wrote:
Thanks for the continued interest - it means a lot to me :)

You're welcome. Since I do enjoy your work, I believe that it is a just and efficient thing to tell you so. Especially because it will likely mean more enjoyable results later on.

Quote:
Oh, by the way, I did mention that I have a new Pathfinder base class in the new issue of Kobold Quarterly (#19), didn't I? ;)

And the White Necromancer is in fact one of my pet concepts. Your interests and ideas are beginning to be eerily reminiscent of my own.

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

Psychic wonder twin powers--activate!

Liberty's Edge

The Expanded Spell-Less Ranger is finally out!!!

This stand alone PDF includes new material beyond the original magazine version, two new archetypes for the companion-bound ranger and the dual-style ranger, new animal companion options and Ranger Talents, expanded tracking, hunting, additional favored enemies plus new feats specific to this Ranger that make them masters of their terrain.

Includes a full 20-level character progression plus tracking sheets for favored terrain, enemies, and companions.

Hopefully everyone will Check it out HERE!


Marc Radle wrote:

I got an e-mail from a little birdie (OK, it was Wolfgang ;) ) pointing me to this thread.

First, I’m thrilled you are digging my Spell-less Ranger! In fact, the reactions I’ve seen since the issue came out have been very positive overall, which is really cool!

Hearing that people are using and enjoying something I’ve written (or illustrated, for that matter) is the main reason I do this … well, that and the nearly overwhelming fame, fabulous riches and hoards of groupies of course!

As for the spell-less Skirmisher ranger variant in the APG, it is in many ways extremely similar to my Spell-less Ranger, so I would not see any real problems with picking from the various Ranger Tricks and using them as additional Ranger Talents you can choose from. You would probably need to tone some down a bit, or otherwise modify some since the APG version limits the uses of the Ranger Tricks (I don’t have my book handy, but I think it’s something like 3 + CHA modifier times per day) while the Spell-less Ranger does not. Also, while they certainly could all work, some of the Tricks in the APG version don’t quite fit as well thematically with the KQ Spell-less Ranger, at least in my opinion.

While we are on this subject, I have to admit that wanting some additional Ranger Talents has been the number one request I have heard since the Spell-less Ranger came out. I think I might try and find some time to finally put some new Talents together. I’ll most likely tweak some of the Tricks from the APG that work particularly well and then add some additional new Talents of my own.

I also agree that there are some new APG feats that could certainly be added to the list of Ranger bonus feats. I’ll try to tackle this as well.

In fact, I can talk to Wolfgang and see if he would be interested in putting this on the KQ web site as bonus web content once I’m finished …

i also recommend pock the traper archetype and make the traps like triks too (the archetype is so expensive for the traps against the spells)

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