New DM needs help picking between three APs ...


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


Hello everyone! I know these questions are asked frequently, but I'll really appreciate any advice you can offer.

I will be DMing a campaign for the first time ever. We will be using Pathfinder ... also for the first time. We're all busy people so I thought I'd run an Adventure Path to help soften the landing of DMing. Plus, I played the first part of Age of Worms a while back and it REALLY got me hooked on the concept of an AP.

Before getting my Pathfinder books in the mail, I'd been looking over the website and the reviews here and I had settled on Legacy of Fire. After getting the first adventure, I was even more impressed. It seemed perfect.

Except, upon reading the Core Rulebook, I realized that I don't really have the crunchy knowledge or time to appropriately convert everything to the Pathfinder rules and I'm afraid that if I run it "as written," I'll not only be burdening myself with keeping two rule sets in mind (and I don't know 3.5 all that well, since I only played 3.0), but potentially walking into some pitfalls with either overpowered players, overpowered monsters, inappropriate random encounters, poor treasure, etc. I noticed that in the LoF forum, someone is running a conversion thread, but it's only halfway (or less) through the first adventure and even combing over this nice person's thread will take some work.

Reluctantly, I've turned my attention elsewhere. My good friend is already planning to run Kingmakers - and that's fine, since I'm leery of such a giant sandbox on my first time out of the gate as DM. That leaves me with Council of Thieves or Serpent's Skull.

I don't have either of the first adventures for CT or SS, but my impressions from what I've gleaned online are...

Council of Thieves-
Pro: Our group tends to enjoy socializing, planning, diplomacy, etc. along with the good ol' hack n' slash. An urban setting is perfect for this.
Con: Most of the reviews have not been very favorable, especially of the first adventure. I'll admit that what I've read about it so far hasn't hooked me either.

Serpent's Skull-
Pro: The theme and setting seem interesting enough. Pirates and jungles sound entertaining to me.
Con: I'm worried that there won't be enough NPCs and social flavor for my group. Yes, there are the npc castaways, but I'm concerned that this won't be enough. I have one player who is going full on skill-monkey-diplomacy and while I'm sure he'd alter his character concept, he's really jazzed about the current concept.

Does anyone have any advice? Does Souls for Smuggler's Shiv have enough to keep a party that enjoys more than just struggling against jungle disease and voodoo zombies entertained? Is CT as bad as everyone says? Would it be a disaster to run LoF WITHOUT any conversions other than coming up with CMB and CMDs for the npcs? Keep in mind that this is my first time DMing!

Thanks in advance!


Running LoF without converting shouldn't be a problem. Aside from the CMB/CMD calculations and remembering a few skills are different (spot/listen/search = perception) it's really not that different.

I'd probably count all monsters as a CR challenge level lower for determining xp to account for the Pathfinder character power up. This should have Pathfinder characters 1 level behind what 3.5 characters would be. Then calculate your CMB and CMD's and that should do it.

Legacy of Fire is a good adventure path and I'd say it's worth your time to do those small adjustments. I'm not familiar with CoT or SS since I try to skip some APs in case I wind up being a player and those two were ones I skipped.


Also check the LoF forum, there are conversions for most if not all of the LoF AP from 3.5 to pathfinder.


Serpent's Skull looks like it will be good, but we only have the first part to go on. If you want to run Pathfinder straight up, this would be your best choice.

As for Legacy of Fire, I finished running it two months ago using the Pathfinder rules and it ran just fine without any conversion work. A few pieces of advice if you want to run this:
1. Memorize how to calculate CMB/CMD so you can do it on the fly.
2. Award xp and level up characters using 3.5 rules.
3. Use the Pathfinder Bestiary rather than 3.5 monster manual.
4. Memorize and use the Advanced Creature template (Bestiary p.294) if your players are having an easy time of it - which they probably will since Pathfinder PCs are a bit more powerful than 3.5 PCs.
5. Try to find time to re-stat/modify 1 or 2 bosses per module using Pathfinder Core and APG rules - especially Jhavhul who really needs a falchion.

Welcome to the ranks of DMing. Relax and have fun!


Rook:
Serpent’s Skull: If I were you I wouldn’t run Serpent’s Skull because only the first part is out. You don’t know how things will turn out with the other parts yet.

Legacy of Fire: This is a great AP. Mandor’s post above is spot on.

Council of Thieves: It is not as bad as people think. Parts 2-5 are excellent, but part 6 is sandboxy. This AP goes up to level 13, which might also be a plus for you. Look for the thread “Starting at 3rd-4th level” further down the page, and either follow that advice, or run some other adventures first to get the PCs up to your desired level while you cut your teeth as a DM.


Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.

Mandor wrote:


2. Award xp and level up characters using 3.5 rules.

Great advice, Mandor. Just to double-check, what precisely do you mean by "level up characters using 3.5 rules?" I feel a bit dense asking, but for some reason, I'm entirely sure what you mean.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Rook in the Castle wrote:

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.

Mandor wrote:


2. Award xp and level up characters using 3.5 rules.
Great advice, Mandor. Just to double-check, what precisely do you mean by "level up characters using 3.5 rules?" I feel a bit dense asking, but for some reason, I'm entirely sure what you mean.

Actually it's far easier, just use fast XP progression for 3.5 material. There, done.


Gorbacz wrote:


Actually it's far easier, just use fast XP progression for 3.5 material. There, done.

Isn't one of the problems that Pathfinder PCs tend to be more powerful than 3.5? So wouldn't slower progression be preferred in order to keep player power in check? Or is the power difference not THAT big of a deal?


Rook in the Castle wrote:

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.

Mandor wrote:


2. Award xp and level up characters using 3.5 rules.
Great advice, Mandor. Just to double-check, what precisely do you mean by "level up characters using 3.5 rules?" I feel a bit dense asking, but for some reason, I'm entirely sure what you mean.

Just use the 3.5 rules for awarding xp and for determining how much xp PCs need for each level. All other rules are Pathfinder.

In each AP the modules are designed to give the correct xp so that PCs are at the correct level at specific points in each module. Since the LoF AP was written using 3.5 rules, giving out xp using 3.5 rules will keep the PCs at the level they should be.

Personally, I used an excel spreadsheet (created by a 3e DM years ago) to figure out xp for each session. I can email you a copy of it if you are interested.

Rook in the Castle wrote:
Isn't one of the problems that Pathfinder PCs tend to be more powerful than 3.5? So wouldn't slower progression be preferred in order to keep player power in check? Or is the power difference not THAT big of a deal?

The fast progression more closely matches the speed of leveling in 3.5. Using the medium progression could get you into trouble as PCs will probably end up at a lower level than they should be for some fights. As for Pathfinder PCs being more powerful, that's what the Advanced template is for.


Thanks Mandor! I was fairly sure what you meant, but I had to double-check. I don't think I'll need the excel sheet - handing out XP as suggested by the AP and following the 3.5 xp chart seems easy to me. And I'll have my Advanced temple ready to go.

Hopefully it will run smoothly because the adventure looks like a huge heap of fun.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

None of them are a bad choice. Just some need a little more work by the GM to make it work for their group. With that said though. If LoF has you hooked run with it. I have honestly run some 3.5 stuff and didn't change a thing other than adding CMD etc and running it using the Pathfinder rules and it went fine.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Rook in the Castle wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:


Actually it's far easier, just use fast XP progression for 3.5 material. There, done.
Isn't one of the problems that Pathfinder PCs tend to be more powerful than 3.5? So wouldn't slower progression be preferred in order to keep player power in check? Or is the power difference not THAT big of a deal?

With fast progression in 3.5 modules you level up every 13 encounters (IIRC), which is exactly the default levelling speed in 3.5.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

If you go to d20PFSRD.com a lot of the monsters are already converted. Nethys has also converted nearly everything in LoF as well.

I am running this and have used those two sources with ease.

Sovereign Court

Legacy Of Fire conversions can be found on Archives of Nethys here.

Grand Lodge

Go ahead and start with Council of Thieves. This will give you a chance to tweek the first part for yourself toward the end. The rest of the AP is good on its own.

P.S. Make copies of the play for everybody. It may take a little work but it is worth it.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Well I had a blast with Council of Thieves. The second book is especially awesome. If you have a group that loves socializing, diplomacy, and planning, it's really the AP for you.


I highly recommend Curse of the Crimson Throne. Yes you will have to convert (not near as difficult as it sounds, and there is a lot of conversion for it already done on the web), lots of socilization, diplomacy and planning.

I am preped up to run this for my group as soon as we finish STAP!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Dark_Mistress wrote:
None of them are a bad choice. Just some need a little more work by the GM to make it work for their group. With that said though. If LoF has you hooked run with it. I have honestly run some 3.5 stuff and didn't change a thing other than adding CMD etc and running it using the Pathfinder rules and it went fine.

+1


We just played our first session of CoT last week and had an absolute blast. However, we were lucky enough to have a player that did a lot of work creating a backstory for the group and he even detailed out the entire neighborhood they live in.

If you want to use any of that, and your players are open to it, check out the info in this thread.

There's quests built in and a lot of easy ways to make the transition into the AP content whenever you feel it's appropriate.

Also, for more insight into CoT, be sure to check out the Chronicles Pathfinder Podcast episode 6 for an in-depth review.

I can't speak for other APs, but my group is loving CoT and we haven't even completed the first book yet.

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