So I'll be playing a Succubus in a PF only game soon and her main combat shtick will be to grapple and energy drain plus auto Suggestion to accept another kiss. For the level we're at and her racial hit dice, she gets 5 feats as far as I can tell.
I took Agile Maneuvers, Improved Grapple (since the character has an natural attack and Imp Unarmed Strike would be a completely redundant feat, my DM is being nice and waving that pre-req), Greater Grapple, Weapon Finesse (Natural Attack or Scorpion Whip, haven't decided yet)... and for the last feat it's a toss up between Ability Focus: Energy Drain (from the Bestiary) and a feat the DM and I made up called Improved Bardic Song which gives an additional +1/+1 to a Bard's Inspire Courage.
Which would you go with? Is there anything else that would make her grappling more effective? She has one class level (Bard) so far.
Thanks in advance.
One note: Weapon Finesse doesn't have to be Natural Attack or Scorpion Whip. That's so 3.E. Now it's all weapons that are appropriately light.
Other feats I might suggest are to start down the road of Dodge and Mobility. You'll enjoy the extra AC even though you won't provoke so many AoOs, though you don't need the whole thing. Also ask if you can take Ability Focus from the Bestiary more than once, as the bonus to save DCs on your suggestion can't hurt.
Have no advice per se, just wondering if you considered Anti Paladin instead of Bard. Anti Paladin is a Paladin archetype from the APG.
Have no advice per se, just wondering if you considered Anti Paladin instead of Bard. Anti Paladin is a Paladin archetype from the APG.
She's not going to be evil, though. (Part of her backstory that involved the casting of Miracle and divine intervention by Calistria) She's not good but she's not evil. For the purposes of this game it works well. She'll end up being Chaotic Neutral with the Chaotic Subtype.
Thanks for the advice everyone! Yeah, Dodge is one that I like, as is Mobility. Is there still an Improved Flyby Attack? Can you use Flyby Attack to avoid an AoO and still Grapple? So many questions...
Someone mentioned something to the effect of Weapon Focus giving you it's bonus to CMB. Would this work for grapple checks if I took WF: Natural Weapon (Claws)?
Also, there's something in Agile Maneuvers that caught my eye. It says you get to add your Dex modifier to your Base Attack Bonus and size bonus when determining your CMB. This seems to imply that your Dexterity Modifier is added twice; once to your BaB (in her case, 8) and once to your Size Modifier (in her case, 0). I'm sure that isn't the case since it doesn't quite sound right, but I thought it at least warranted a question voiced here on the boards.
Also, there's something in Agile Maneuvers that caught my eye. It says you get to add your Dex modifier to your Base Attack Bonus and size bonus when determining your CMB. This seems to imply that your Dexterity Modifier is added twice; once to your BaB (in her case, 8) and once to your Size Modifier (in her case, 0). I'm sure that isn't the case since it doesn't quite sound right, but I thought it at least warranted a question voiced here on the boards.
No dice. All it means is that you replace your Strength mod with you Dexterity mod for the purposes of determining your CMB.
Also, there's something in Agile Maneuvers that caught my eye. It says you get to add your Dex modifier to your Base Attack Bonus and size bonus when determining your CMB. This seems to imply that your Dexterity Modifier is added twice; once to your BaB (in her case, 8) and once to your Size Modifier (in her case, 0). I'm sure that isn't the case since it doesn't quite sound right, but I thought it at least warranted a question voiced here on the boards.No dice. All it means is that you replace your Strength mod with you Dexterity mod for the purposes of determining your CMB.
That's what I thought, though it's still strange that they used the word "and" as opposed to "or"...
Basically, all it is doing is suggesting a list of things you add to get a total (ie: this and this and this and...so on).
Actually she'll still have the Evil subtype even with the change of alignment, because essentially that's part of her race. She'll still remain vulnerable to attacks and effects which target that subtype.Have no advice per se, just wondering if you considered Anti Paladin instead of Bard. Anti Paladin is a Paladin archetype from the APG.She's not going to be evil, though. (Part of her backstory that involved the casting of Miracle and divine intervention by Calistria) She's not good but she's not evil. For the purposes of this game it works well. She'll end up being Chaotic Neutral with the Chaotic Subtype.
I'll bring that up to my DM but it's ultimately his call. He may have something else in mind, I don't know.
Succubii have crazy high Cha. While bard is on the right track, I would try to find a class where you can really put that to good use. If it weren't for the alignment problems I would agree with Anti-paladin or maybe Mantis Assassin. Would sorcerer be a better way to go? You could focus on Transmutation type spells to buff yourself up. For any casting your DCs would be good although SR might be problematic.
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Sorry,
how can you create a Succubus PC in Pathfinder? I'm trying to build one, but the only references I have are: PF Beastiary and D&D 3.5 Savage Species. Did I miss something?
Thank you in advance
The official Monsters As PCs Rules.
I recently built a bad guy for a campaign I'm running that might give you an idea for the succubus.
I made a vampire with class levels in summoner. Her eidolon is designed to be a grappler (large, serpentine, etc.), so she can stay out of danger while the victim is being grappled, then move in to start draining blood once it's pinned.
A succubus summoner would be really powerful, since it's a charisma-based spellcaster.
(A little off-topic, but another thing that I realized about the vampire summoner is that the vampire's fast healing combined with the summoner's ability to donate HP to its eidolon is a really powerful combination.)
Is there still an Improved Flyby Attack?
Not really, the main bonus to flyby attack is you can use a standard action between combat allowing a breath weapon, spell or vital strike (vs regular spring attack that only gives a vanilla attack). The best way to take advantage of this is to use a reach weapon for a vital strike without them being able to hit you back.
If grappling is really your forte, then flyby attack may not be the best, unless you do use it for area spell casting etc then getting back away from danger. If that is the case, you may wish to look at the wingover feat to increase your manoeuverability (as every 90 degree direction change costs 5ft of movement and a 180 costs 10ft).
The official Monsters As PCs Rules.Sorry,
how can you create a Succubus PC in Pathfinder? I'm trying to build one, but the only references I have are: PF Beastiary and D&D 3.5 Savage Species. Did I miss something?
Thank you in advance
I've spoken to the game developers on it and, luckily, it's not too different from how it was done in v3.5, Soul.
There is no more level adjustment now. Instead, you can play a (classless) monster at a level equal to its CR as a loose rule of thumb. So, a succubus is (supposedly) appropriate as a PC in a 7th-level party. You would use the ability score generation appropriate to your gaming group and add in the succubus' racial modifiers (which are easily determined by subtracting 10 from their even scores, and 11 from their odd scores). It would have the starting funds of a 7th-level character and would have all the traits of a typical succubus (speed, natural armor, natural attacks, special abilities, racial skill bonuses and bonus feats, languages, etc).
Additionally, though you start far behind (as far as class levels are concerned) you can catch up a few of them as you grow in power (see the rules in the above link). When you first start (in a 7th-level party) you would have 0 class levels, but by the time your party mates get to 16th-level, you should have 12 class levels of your own (in addition to your 8 racial hit dice).
As always the GM is free to make adjustments for balance as you play. In fact, the rules as written encourage this (the above are mostly just starter guidelines).
It is this "loose" method that really makes playing monsters in Pathfinder truly awesome. After all, the LA system in v3.5 didn't really work for anyone (monsters were almost always brokenly weak or brokenly powerful). Now it's up to the GM and their players to decide, as it should be.
I also recommend the Empowered SLA for your Vampiric Touch. Either a spell storing weapon, or the channeling weapon from the APG are good with that. I had a normal Vampiric Touch loaded for the first round of combat all the time, you already have pretty good HP and grabbing an extra 20 or so temporary HP on round one is nice.
I played a succubus in a campaign recently. I left her as Chaotic Evil, she was just magically bound to a ring and had to obey her master's wishes. Think something along the lines of Spike, with the chip in his head. The ring also doubled as a 1-way Ring of Friend Shield. Made her a Fighter, which doesn't necessarily synergize with her special abilities, but Full Plate with that Dex, Natural Armor, DR and immunities made her extremely hard to kill.
To prevent abuse of the teleport, she couldn't be more than 100 feet away from the ring unless given permission to leave and the party was very reluctant to do so, since it was pretty obvious she wanted to "make friends" at their favorite town and she'd be unsupervised on these visits.
I also recommend the Empowered SLA for your Vampiric Touch. Either a spell storing weapon, or the channeling weapon from the APG are good with that.
SLA's don't go into spell storing weapons. If channeling weapons work in a similar capacity it would not work on them either unless it specifically says SLA's.
I also recommend the Empowered SLA for your Vampiric Touch. Either a spell storing weapon, or the channeling weapon from the APG are good with that.SLA's don't go into spell storing weapons. If channeling weapons work in a similar capacity it would not work on them either unless it specifically says SLA's.
Yeah, looked it up, it's the Conductive ability.
A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on melee or ranged touch attack
It only costs +1 and you can use it every round. Guess we did it wrong with my character, but the conductive would actually have been more powerful, so I'm not really worried.
I also recommend the Empowered SLA for your Vampiric Touch. Either a spell storing weapon, or the channeling weapon from the APG are good with that.SLA's don't go into spell storing weapons. If channeling weapons work in a similar capacity it would not work on them either unless it specifically says SLA's.Yeah, looked it up, it's the Conductive ability.
A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on melee or ranged touch attackIt only costs +1 and you can use it every round. Guess we did it wrong with my character, but the conductive would actually have been more powerful, so I'm not really worried.
Is that from the APG or is it a 3rd party ability?
Is that from the APG or is it a 3rd party ability?I also recommend the Empowered SLA for your Vampiric Touch. Either a spell storing weapon, or the channeling weapon from the APG are good with that.SLA's don't go into spell storing weapons. If channeling weapons work in a similar capacity it would not work on them either unless it specifically says SLA's.Yeah, looked it up, it's the Conductive ability.
A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on melee or ranged touch attackIt only costs +1 and you can use it every round. Guess we did it wrong with my character, but the conductive would actually have been more powerful, so I'm not really worried.
APG
Actually she'll still have the Evil subtype even with the change of alignment, because essentially that's part of her race. She'll still remain vulnerable to attacks and effects which target that subtype.Have no advice per se, just wondering if you considered Anti Paladin instead of Bard. Anti Paladin is a Paladin archetype from the APG.She's not going to be evil, though. (Part of her backstory that involved the casting of Miracle and divine intervention by Calistria) She's not good but she's not evil. For the purposes of this game it works well. She'll end up being Chaotic Neutral with the Chaotic Subtype.
That's up to the GM. However, from his statement, it appears the character is, due to a greater deitie's intervention in a Miracle spell's casting, being permanently transmogrified into a being from the plane of Chaos (thus gaining the [Chaos] subtype). I don't think you can be anything other than Evil if you have the [Evil] subtype. Just like you can't maintain the [Humanoid] subtype and turn into a turtle when you reincarnate.
Pathfinder Bestiary does note that a creatures alignment subtype if posessed still persists even in the event that the creature itself changes to a new alignment.
Hmmm,
Had not seen that. Have a page number?| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So I'll be playing a Succubus in a PF only game soon and her main combat shtick will be to grapple and energy drain plus auto Suggestion to accept another kiss. For the level we're at and her racial hit dice, she gets 5 feats as far as I can tell.
I took Agile Maneuvers, Improved Grapple (since the character has an natural attack and Imp Unarmed Strike would be a completely redundant feat, my DM is being nice and waving that pre-req), Greater Grapple, Weapon Finesse (Natural Attack or Scorpion Whip, haven't decided yet)... and for the last feat it's a toss up between Ability Focus: Energy Drain (from the Bestiary) and a feat the DM and I made up called Improved Bardic Song which gives an additional +1/+1 to a Bard's Inspire Courage.
Which would you go with? Is there anything else that would make her grappling more effective? She has one class level (Bard) so far.
Thanks in advance.
Just wanted to point out that Necromancers of the Northwest has a fully fleshed out Succubus as PC:here. Might be worth a look, since it offers full level progression with feats and powers built in. Regardless, good luck, and have fun!
No because I generally don't bring my books to work. but here's the quote directly from the PSRD.Evil Subtype
This subtype is usually applied to Outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes. Evil Outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are evil-aligned.
You should also check the rules for Demon and Outsider subtypes as well as Chaotic subtype as well.
You don't have your books at work? Pshaw, and you call yourself a fanboi!
:)
Ok, if that's the rules, that's the rules then. :) I'll keep that in mind going forward. It's still up to the GM though whether she changed just alignment, or also fundamentally at the cosmic makeup level.
There is a roleplay (non-mechanic) aspect of the succubus a lot of people seem to overlook all the time. While the book write up defines an act of passion as a kiss, you have to keep in mind these books were published knowing younger kids would be reading them. The Succubus as a whole is a VERY dangerous creature. She uses her feminine wiles to get what she wants, when she wants it. Even in the beastiary write up they allude to the fact these creatures are extremely charming, and are known to rule legions from the shadows. The Succubus is a seducer, by her very nature she is a creature whos life revolves around sex. While I myself have played a Succubus, you have to be cautious playing one, even a small slip of the tongue can lead to extremely X rated scenarios.
On another note, a succubus could change her alignment for any of about ten billion reasons, but ALWAYS keep in mind, you can take the evil out of a Succubus, but you CAN'T take the Succubus out of the girl. Once a Succubus, always a succubus. I studied a lot of different references to the succubus while playing one, these are creatures hell bent for leather to cause chaos, strife, and misery. They also represent the darkest aspects of our sexual desires, and nightmares. They are often portrayed as extremely aggressive sexual predators, that don't sleep, don't eat, and don't age, who don't give a hoot about such things as gender based sexuality, women are fair game as much as men. Things like sadomasochism or dominance and submission are bread and butter to a succubus. If you want a truly imersive character you have to keep these things in mind, she could well be fighting against her nature, and trying valiantly to be a good girl, but one roll of the dice can have her slipping back into old habbits like an addict suffering a relapse.
Classes that mesh well with a succubus are not easy to find, but if you want to keep in tune with the fact she can fight like a warrior on her own already, but prefers not to, consider a Rogue, Ninja, Sorcerer, or a witch. The sorcerer or witch will benefit greatly from her enhanced charisma, and the rogue and ninja still take advantage of her enhanced dexterity. With a chaotic neutral succubus a ninja would go well if you want a silent killer who is more out for their own self interests, and money is going to be on her list of wants. While assassination is seen as an act of evil, there are plenty of reasons to kill for money, she could only take contracts on evil or sadistic men to be killed. Your imagination is your limit, as long as it will play well, and your DM/GM Thinks it will work, do it. If not, try the age old art of compromise, some truly epic characters have crossed my games because of imaginitive players.
Above all, remember it's a game, it's all about having fun, so as the old saying goes, you never know until you try.
Tera
Actually, a ninja uses Cha for determining extra ki. Lots of ki = lots of extra stuff. Likewise, the social skills are class skills, so being a diplomancer is easy.
Now I want to play one.
/cevah