Witch Help, please.


Advice


Ok, I am making a witch as a PC for the "Curse of the Crimson Throne" AP.

This is a link to her lvl 1 character sheet: Yeria Lintara
I have detailed her below for those who do not like to click links or go to Google docs.

I am going with a desperately poor teenage girl who is out for herself only and has made a deal with a dark entity to gain the power she needs to escape her life. I picked the Plague patron and am thinking that later I will be going the undead creation route.

I just have a few mechanical questions. I am just wondering if emphasizing necromancy over enchantment is going to make me mechanically unsound. Also if anyone has any suggestions for her I would be glad to listen. I do have a thorough backstory, about 5 pages worth now and still writing however, it is very NSFW so I am not posting it here.

Race: Human

Alignment: Neutral Evil

Patron: Plague

Stats:
Str:12 Dex:13 Con:13 Int:18 Wis:13 Chr:12
After Applying human +2 to Int.

Selected Skills:
Bluff: 1
Heal: 1
Knowledge (Nature): 1
Knowledge (Planes): 1
SpellCraft: 1
UMD: 1

Here is her selected feat path, any suggestions? I would really like to fit in Ability Focus (Misfortune Hex) but am tight on feats.

1: Extra Hex
1(Human): Extra Hex
3:Ability Focus (Slumber Hex)
5: Scribe Scroll
7: Spell Focus (Necromancy)
9: Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
11: Spell Penetration
13: Greater Spell Penetration
15: Heighten Spell
17: Persistent Spell
19: Extra Hex

Here is her selected hex path, I would love some ideas for this but it seems pretty solid to me. Btw, the reason she picks up the healing hexes is because she has learned that healing an individual gives you power over them as they usually feel they owe you something.

1: Slumber
1: Healing
1: Misfortune
2: Cackle
4: Fortune
6: Evil Eye
8: Flight
10: Major Healing
12: Agony
14: Retribution
16: Waxen Image
18: Life Giver
19: Death Curse
20: Natural Disaster

Traits:
Drug Addict: Personal: +1 fort Save (Curse of the Crimson Throne Players guide)

Focused Mind: +2 Concentration Checks (Pathfinder APG)

Familiar: Scorpion (+2 init)

P.S. if anyone could post the stats for a scorpion familiar I would love that as I had some problems with shrinking the one in the bestiary.


I would take Evil Eye up front. As a DM I can tell you it is a most annoying ability. Next up is cackle. Then it is up to you.

I would take Combat Casting as one of my first feats.
How effective necromancy is depends on what monsters the DM will be using. I like the school myself. The DM should be willing to help in this regard since taking too many of the wrong spells makes your character less fun.


I am running as I said "Curse of the Crimson Throne" and have not peeked ahead but will ask my DM about monsters. Thanks that is a good idea.

I though about Combat casting but am very tight on feats and since hexes do not provoke AoO's decided against it but will look at it again.
I also thought about toughness but yet again just not enough feats.


Looks good, Spell Focus Necro is actually a pretty nice choice choice, especially if you plan to use Bestow Curse a lot. (My witch does, currently trying to get a spell storing weapon for me and the figher guys)

However some things come to mind:

Are the stats final? If its point buy I would suggest to add at least one more point to dex, otherwise your AC might be a bit too low for comfort.

Evil Eye and Slumber Hex are pretty damn awesome for the first few levels especially if you can explain the concept of coup the grace to the guys with the big swords - but they are both mind-affection effects so sooner of later more and more enemies will become immune against them. Also elfs ^^. You have to decide for yourself if its worth investing so heavily into Ability Focus.

Misfortune on the other hand is downright nasty especially with Cackle since no one will be immune to it.

You might want to consider the Ward hex, not only can you help your party (or use it to gain more controll) but since it´s uncommon to equip your Undead with saving throw enhancing items or rings of protection you can really beef up your undead monsters.

Even if you don´t plan to do a lot of healing it´s always good to remember that your familiar can deliver your cure light wounds as well as your healing hex. Once you have your undead the same is true for inflict wounds to heal them. (If you decide to send you spellbook into the action, giving it flight, making it invisible and or Mage Armor might warant attention).

Oh and just to warn you Giant Vermin will not work on your Familiar since its a magical beast, but it can talk to the vermin for you.

Thats it for the moment, i hope it helps.


Apparently someone did the work for you already: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-lists-and-details/-s/scorpion/gree nsting-scorpion


Which spells are you going to use the Spell Focus/Gr. Spell Focus Necromancy for?

You don't need it for Chill Touch [unless undead], Enervation or Vampiric Touch.

Maybe change those Feats to Enchantment?

Evil Eye and Cackle are 1st level no brainers.

Has your DM ok-ed the Ability Focus? It's just that the Feat says "special attacks" and the class feature says "magic tricks". Some may have a problem with that.


Ok, first Thank you all for your answers. Now to answer your questions.

1.) Stats are set they are rolled.

2.) Thanks I did not think about Ward for my undead, good idea. I will look at that.

3.)I have swapped Fortune and Evil Eye so I get Evil Eye at 4th. I really like Slumber and Healing at 1rst, yes barbarian with falchion and coup de gras is amazing. Also having the Misfortune/Cackle combo at 2nd looks amazing to me but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

4.) I have compiled a list of spells that a witch with my patron can cast sorted by school that also have saving throws and it seems to me that either necromancy or enchantment are good spell focus schools for witch. I am however unsure so as to why I have asked my original question. Magic jar looks amazing. on further consideration it seems like enchantment is better at lower levels but necromancy pulls ahead at higher levels.

Link to list: Witch Spells

List:

9th: Necromancy (inflict critical wounds (mass), soul bind, suffocation (mass), wail of the banshee, energy drain)
Enchantment (dominate monster, hold monster (mass), power word kill)
Conjuration (storm of vengeance)

8th: Necromancy (destruction, horrid wilting, inflict serious wounds (mass), symbol of death)
Enchantment (antipathy, charm monster (mass), demand, irresistible dance, power word stun, symbol of insanity, sympathy)
Conjuration (trap the soul)
Evocation (stormbolts)

7th: Necromancy (control undead, harm, inflict moderate wounds (mass), symbol of weakness, waves of exhaustion)
Enchantment (hold person (mass), insanity, power word blind, symbol of stunning)
Evocation (chain lightning)

6th: Necromancy (eyebite, fester (mass), inflict light wounds (mass), slay living, symbol of fear, unwilling shield)
Enchantment (cloak of dreams, geas/quest, suggestion (mass), symbol of persuasion)
Evocation (cone of cold)
Transmutation (flesh to stone, stone to flesh)

5th: Necromancy (blight, inflict critical wounds, magic jar, mark of justice, suffocation, symbol of pain, waves of fatigue)
Enchantment (dominate person, feeblemind, hold monster, mind fog, symbol of sleep)
Conjuration (cloudkill)
Evocation (pain strike (mass))
Transmutation (baleful polymorph)

4th: Necromancy (fear, inflict serious wounds, poison)
Enchantment (charm monster, confusion, crushing despair, geas (lesser), moonstruck, sleepwalk)
Conjuration (black tentacles)
Transmutation (flesh to stone, stone to flesh)
Divination (discern lies)
Illusion (phantasmal killer, wandering star motes)

3rd: Necromancy (contagion, bestow curse, ray of exhaustion)
Enchantment (deep slumber, suggestion)
Conjuration (stinking cloud)
Evocation (lightning bolt, pain strike, screech)
Transmutation (cup of dust, nature’s exile)
Abjuration (glyph of warding)

2nd: Necromancy (command undead, blindness/deafness, death knell, fester, inflict moderate wounds, pox pustules, scare)
Enchantment (daze monster, enthrall, hold person, touch of idiocy, zone of truth)
Conjuration (glitterdust, web)
Evocation (burning gaze)
Transmutation (feast of ashes)

1st: Necromancy (cause fear, chill touch, inflict light wounds, ray of enfeeblement)
Enchantment (beguiling gift, charm person, command, hypnotism, ill omen, sleep)
Evocation (burning hands)
Transmutation (reduce person)


I think you could do either school.

Personally, for my Witch, I'm going Enchantment and using Spectral Hand to deliver touches at range as a Plan B for those immune to Enchantments.


I would move slumber hex toward #4 on the list....

reason....
use sleep spell at low level

change to hex once BBEGs are above 4 HD limit of sleep spell....

Misfortune
evil eye
cackle

very storng choices.

mine was
misfortune
cackle
Healing (due to low amount of healing available)


I am acutally a bit worried about cackle:

If you have something like a mount from the mount spell, or maybe a zombie horse oder someone to carry you so you do not have to use your move action (sorry Fly Hex wont help you there).

You could keep a your entire party (and of course undead minions) under the effect of the fortune hex all day long (as long as you stay within 30 feet). And to add insult to injury you could misfortune, evil eye and ward (and later retribution) too.

I mean it will be a bit creepy and tough on your vocal cords, but it seems broken, especially since a level 1 witch can do it (Simulacrum of a level 2 witch costs about 500 - 1000 GP) ^^

Regarding spell focus, in the end it comes down to personal choice, what effects you want to succed. And IMO two of your best spells enervation and energy drain do not require you to increase the save dc, since those should not come to happen most of the time.

It sounds like really bad advise for a spellcaster, but considering that you are not shielded, blurred, hasted, stoneskinned, mirrir immaged like your wizard buddy, keeping you alive has top priority.

So I would suggest you to invest in something like Dodge. On the other hand if you remove both Spell Focus feats, and replace them with Quicken Spell and Spell Perfection:Enervation you could sling quickened Enervations from your 5th level slots. If you decide to go this route I would suggest exchanging Persistant Spell for Empower spell - or Weapon Focus Ray.

So you would end up with 1 quickened enervation with +2 to the attack roll and +8 on checks to beat spell resistance and whatever else you want to use your standard action for. Invest in some metamgic rods of empower to add insult to injury.


Having trouble trying to select a Patron. Anyone with insight on some of their experience with 'em ?


Banpai wrote:

I am acutally a bit worried about cackle:

If you have something like a mount from the mount spell, or maybe a zombie horse oder someone to carry you so you do not have to use your move action (sorry Fly Hex wont help you there).

You could keep a your entire party (and of course undead minions) under the effect of the fortune hex all day long (as long as you stay within 30 feet). And to add insult to injury you could misfortune, evil eye and ward (and later retribution) too.

I mean it will be a bit creepy and tough on your vocal cords, but it seems broken, especially since a level 1 witch can do it (Simulacrum of a level 2 witch costs about 500 - 1000 GP) ^^

Regarding spell focus, in the end it comes down to personal choice, what effects you want to succed. And IMO two of your best spells enervation and energy drain do not require you to increase the save dc, since those should not come to happen most of the time.

It sounds like really bad advise for a spellcaster, but considering that you are not shielded, blurred, hasted, stoneskinned, mirrir immaged like your wizard buddy, keeping you alive has top priority.

So I would suggest you to invest in something like Dodge. On the other hand if you remove both Spell Focus feats, and replace them with Quicken Spell and Spell Perfection:Enervation you could sling quickened Enervations from your 5th level slots. If you decide to go this route I would suggest exchanging Persistant Spell for Empower spell - or Weapon Focus Ray.

So you would end up with 1 quickened enervation with +2 to the attack roll and +8 on checks to beat spell resistance and whatever else you want to use your standard action for. Invest in some metamgic rods of empower to add insult to injury.

Keep in mind, Cackle is a move action so you cant do much else. Granted you could move and cackle or cast a spell/hex and cackle, but you cant spell/hex, cackle, and move, so you really need to decide what to do. Also not cackling for 1 round can remove the hex. So if I use misfortune on an enemy, then I cackle the next round, but on the third round I cast a spell and move to get myself into a safer area, misfortune drops and I cant put it back on that target for 24 hours.

As a witch you really need to prioritize this.


Did you roll your stats or use point buy?

If you rolled your stats, that's fine. But if you used point buy, I would heavily suggest dropping STR to 10, WIS to 10 and then making CON and DEX 14. With the extra point, CHA 13. CotCT goes to 16, so you'll have 4 stat bonuses. One in CHA, 3 in Int and a Wish or tome for +1 Int at the end of the AP gives you a good... 28 Int at the end of the line. And all even mods.

1 more hp per level isn't bad either for someone with a d6 hit die.

I also wouldn't take Ability Focus (slumber hex) on the basis of it being a cheap, fun-sucking ability that shouldn't have ever been introduced to the game. Improved Initiative instead. But that's just me.

I don't understand the preoccupance with Extra Hex. Or why someone would take a feat for the Healing hex. You do know you're selling your feat for 750gp, right? Buy a wand of cure light wounds instead. Now you can cast more than one terrible heal per day on someone if they need it. And when you run out? Ask the party to donate 100 or so gold to you so that you can buy another wand.

Healing hex on a party of 5 people, each down 50 hp at level 10: avg. 19 x 5 = 95 hp. 19 hp per person.

Wand of cure moderate wounds on a party of 5 people, each down 50 hp at level 10: avg 13 per cast, can get 650 points of healing in before needing to purchase another. So you can get each of these people for 50 hp in 4 casts. Total healing: 50 per person. And you've used... 20 charges. You still have 30.

If you run into the next room, and right into an ambush, and barely survive, you can turn to the party with your wand of cure moderate wounds and heal them up, or you can turn to the party with your pitiful healing hex and shrug and go "I wish I could save your life, but I can only heal you for an embarassing amount once per day."

On the issue of availability, I can honestly think of two books of CotCT where you won't be able to buy a wand if you adhere directly to the story, but there's always the option of using teleportation spells or stocking up in advance.

And finally, necromancy is honestly not that bad of a school for this AP. I had a necromancer cleric of Norgorber in my game and he worked out really well. Control undead is a very versatile spell choice for this AP.


MooNinja wrote:
Having trouble trying to select a Patron. Anyone with insight on some of their experience with 'em ?

The strongest for a "generic" witch are endurance and wisdom. If you are looking for a witch eldritch knight, then strength really pulls ahead as well as transformation. Elements is... ok if you want blasting, but without that (and some Elemental spell feats) the witch hurts a bit for blasting spells, and honestly doesn't really have the slots to waste on single round effects from the class's spell list. Personally I find the witch is great at low opponent fights, but against large groups struggles a bit due to a lack of good multi-target spells (both buffing, and debuffing).

Summoning isn't a bad strategy for a witch, especially since the witch can make the enemy easier to hit (and hit less often) which gives the summoned creatures a chance to actually drop some CR = opponents.


Abraham spalding wrote:
MooNinja wrote:
Having trouble trying to select a Patron. Anyone with insight on some of their experience with 'em ?

The strongest for a "generic" witch are endurance and wisdom. If you are looking for a witch eldritch knight, then strength really pulls ahead as well as transformation. Elements is... ok if you want blasting, but without that (and some Elemental spell feats) the witch hurts a bit for blasting spells, and honestly doesn't really have the slots to waste on single round effects from the class's spell list. Personally I find the witch is great at low opponent fights, but against large groups struggles a bit due to a lack of good multi-target spells (both buffing, and debuffing).

Summoning isn't a bad strategy for a witch, especially since the witch can make the enemy easier to hit (and hit less often) which gives the summoned creatures a chance to actually drop some CR = opponents.

Aside from use magic device, what importance does Charisma have on a witch?


Thank you for your advice. I am grabbing Healing hex mainly for the fact my character feels that assuring someone's health is one of the best ways to manipulate them and that she will offer healing for "Free" in any spot where she feels it will reflect well on her and will not be down spells.

I had pictured her as an undead controller and necromancer that manipulated life/death to give or take away life as she saw fit.

We did roll stats.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Seraph403 wrote:


Aside from use magic device, what importance does Charisma have on a witch?

Intimidate. A witch should be an imposing figure if needs be.


Seraph403 wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
MooNinja wrote:
Having trouble trying to select a Patron. Anyone with insight on some of their experience with 'em ?

The strongest for a "generic" witch are endurance and wisdom. If you are looking for a witch eldritch knight, then strength really pulls ahead as well as transformation. Elements is... ok if you want blasting, but without that (and some Elemental spell feats) the witch hurts a bit for blasting spells, and honestly doesn't really have the slots to waste on single round effects from the class's spell list. Personally I find the witch is great at low opponent fights, but against large groups struggles a bit due to a lack of good multi-target spells (both buffing, and debuffing).

Summoning isn't a bad strategy for a witch, especially since the witch can make the enemy easier to hit (and hit less often) which gives the summoned creatures a chance to actually drop some CR = opponents.

Aside from use magic device, what importance does Charisma have on a witch?

Little to none. I'm not sure why the question is brought up though -- I said nothing about Charisma.


Quote:
Little to none. I'm not sure why the question is brought up though -- I said nothing about Charisma.

I believe that was due to the fact that Ice Titan advised me if I was using point buy to pick up some extra charisma.


Covent wrote:
Quote:
Little to none. I'm not sure why the question is brought up though -- I said nothing about Charisma.
I believe that was due to the fact that Ice Titan advised me if I was using point buy to pick up some extra charisma.

he likes even numbers for the bonuses.


Abraham spalding wrote:
Seraph403 wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
MooNinja wrote:
Having trouble trying to select a Patron. Anyone with insight on some of their experience with 'em ?

The strongest for a "generic" witch are endurance and wisdom. If you are looking for a witch eldritch knight, then strength really pulls ahead as well as transformation. Elements is... ok if you want blasting, but without that (and some Elemental spell feats) the witch hurts a bit for blasting spells, and honestly doesn't really have the slots to waste on single round effects from the class's spell list. Personally I find the witch is great at low opponent fights, but against large groups struggles a bit due to a lack of good multi-target spells (both buffing, and debuffing).

Summoning isn't a bad strategy for a witch, especially since the witch can make the enemy easier to hit (and hit less often) which gives the summoned creatures a chance to actually drop some CR = opponents.

Aside from use magic device, what importance does Charisma have on a witch?
Little to none. I'm not sure why the question is brought up though -- I said nothing about Charisma.

Misquoted, meant to quote Ice Titan's

"If you rolled your stats, that's fine. But if you used point buy, I would heavily suggest dropping STR to 10, WIS to 10 and then making CON and DEX 14. With the extra point, CHA 13. CotCT goes to 16, so you'll have 4 stat bonuses. One in CHA, 3 in Int and a Wish or tome for +1 Int at the end of the AP gives you a good... 28 Int at the end of the line. And all even mods."

My witches stats are as follows (We're doing 25 point buy system)

Str 8
Dex 16
con 12
Int 20 (18, +2 human)
Wis 12
Cha 7


Seraph403 wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Seraph403 wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
MooNinja wrote:
Having trouble trying to select a Patron. Anyone with insight on some of their experience with 'em ?

The strongest for a "generic" witch are endurance and wisdom. If you are looking for a witch eldritch knight, then strength really pulls ahead as well as transformation. Elements is... ok if you want blasting, but without that (and some Elemental spell feats) the witch hurts a bit for blasting spells, and honestly doesn't really have the slots to waste on single round effects from the class's spell list. Personally I find the witch is great at low opponent fights, but against large groups struggles a bit due to a lack of good multi-target spells (both buffing, and debuffing).

Summoning isn't a bad strategy for a witch, especially since the witch can make the enemy easier to hit (and hit less often) which gives the summoned creatures a chance to actually drop some CR = opponents.

Aside from use magic device, what importance does Charisma have on a witch?
Little to none. I'm not sure why the question is brought up though -- I said nothing about Charisma.

Misquoted, meant to quote Ice Titan's

"If you rolled your stats, that's fine. But if you used point buy, I would heavily suggest dropping STR to 10, WIS to 10 and then making CON and DEX 14. With the extra point, CHA 13. CotCT goes to 16, so you'll have 4 stat bonuses. One in CHA, 3 in Int and a Wish or tome for +1 Int at the end of the AP gives you a good... 28 Int at the end of the line. And all even mods."

My witches stats are as follows (We're doing 25 point buy system)

Str 8
Dex 16
con 12
Int 20 (18, +2 human)
Wis 12
Cha 7

Charisma for opposed charisma checks after enchantment spells. Very good at level one with charm person.

Could easily be wisdom. I find them interchangeable depending on character concept.

Scarab Sages

stuart haffenden wrote:
Evil Eye and Cackle are 1st level no brainers.

Can someone elaborate on that? I can see why Cackle is so good, but isn't Misfortune at least as good as Evil Eye? It can screw up save chances more efficiently than a -2 to saves, and will almost entirely negate the enemy's crit chance.

If I were to build a witch (and it's in fact high up on my to-play list), I'd probably go with:

1 Misfortune
E Cackle
E Slumber
2 Fortune
4 Flight
6 Tongues
8 Disguise

Does that make sense or will I want Evil Eye in there to stack on top of Misfortune?

It just seems to me that at some point during the encounter I will want to stop incanting new hexes and start casting spells instead...


Catharsis wrote:
stuart haffenden wrote:
Evil Eye and Cackle are 1st level no brainers.

Can someone elaborate on that? I can see why Cackle is so good, but isn't Misfortune at least as good as Evil Eye? It can screw up save chances more efficiently than a -2 to saves, and will almost entirely negate the enemy's crit chance.

The Eye can continue round after round even if saved against, whereas Misfortune can only target a critter once per day, and if the critter saves, it does nothing.


Evil eye lets you pick what to give a -2 to
and lasts 3+Int rounds a save reduces it to one round....

Misfortune is more powerful....
Forcing roll twice take lowest on all rolls....
but lasts one round.....

Evil eye is better for multiple opponents as you can get it active on more than one opponent and then cackle each round to extend it.....

Misfortune is great for BBEG
you will be using your cackle then to make all BBEG's attack, damage, save and other rolls suck....

Think of giving the wizard two chances to get one of those suck or die spells off........or to overcome MR.........

Scarab Sages

Oh, no automatic round of effect there? I can see how Evil Eye is better then.

So maybe rather:

1 Evil Eye
E Cackle
E Slumber
2 Fortune
4 Flight
6 Misfortune
8 Tongues

Or Misfortune up a few levels with Extra Hex? Though I guess at some point I will also want to use a few feat slots for other things, like Improved Initiative.

Also, I'm wondering a bit about the use of Evil Eye to prepare for save-or-sucks. Can I really afford to stand within 30 ft of a tough bad guy and spend a round with Evil Eye + Cackle to prepare for Slumber when I could be trying Slumber directly and then throw a spell after it if it fails?


Catharsis wrote:

Oh, no automatic round of effect there? I can see how Evil Eye is better then.

So maybe rather:

1 Evil Eye
E Cackle
E Slumber
2 Fortune
4 Flight
6 Misfortune
8 Tongues

Or Misfortune up a few levels with Extra Hex? Though I guess at some point I will also want to use a few feat slots for other things, like Improved Initiative.

The main "problem" with the Witch is that you want a handful of the better Hex's early on and there is a huge temptation to be greedy and take Extra Hex to get them quickly, however if you look at the higher Hex's you'll see that they aren't all that good considering your level when you get them. This will leave your mid/high level Hex options pretty crap, assuming you'll adventure up to that level.

I couldn't see myself playing a Witch up to level 20, 15 maybe but not 20.

Scarab Sages

stuart haffenden wrote:


The main "problem" with the Witch is that you want a handful of the better Hex's early on and there is a huge temptation to be greedy and take Extra Hex to get them quickly, however if you look at the higher Hex's you'll see that they aren't all that good considering your level when you get them. This will leave your mid/high level Hex options pretty crap, assuming you'll adventure up to that level.

I couldn't see myself playing a Witch up to level 20, 15 maybe but not 20.

Well, even after you run out of useful hexes to pick (and I agree that all of the advanced picks sound very underwhelming), you will still have an at-will save-or-die vs Will (Slumber) and a save-or-suck against Fortitude (Agony) to throw out once at each enemy, as well as the Evil Eye/Cackle combo to soften up tough enemies. Your 1st level choices stay good, and you are a full arcane caster after all.

Can you think of any PrC it would be worthwhile to branch into after you get bored with hexes? I don't think there's much of an alternative.

Liberty's Edge

The witch really benefits from a high dex...
AC
Ranged
and aids initiative

Mine is 16 dex for the +3 and then the greensting scorpion gives a +2 to initative so I am still throwing feats towards extra hex........

Take slumber later....
Use the sleep spell till enemies get above the 4 HD limit
then slumber is good since it has no HD limit...

As far as the better hexes.....
Likely would not go above 5th-6th level for witch then maybe a level ranger and then EK as the "better hexes" are not really impressive......

Scarab Sages

Yes, I did plan to get a decent Dex.

Belsarious wrote:


Take slumber later....
Use the sleep spell till enemies get above the 4 HD limit
then slumber is good since it has no HD limit...

I find sleep rather unimpressive after 1st level, when it will usually affect only 1-2 enemies. The casting time of 1 round is a killer -- it's basically a bit "hit me" sign above my head, which will likely both fizzle the spell and cost me an arm and a leg (literally).

Anyway, the hexes are supposed to be my bread-and-butter in combat while I don't have many spell slots available. I'd rather kill an enemy than inconvenience him with an Evil Eye. (And yes, in early levels, sleeping an enemy next to the Barbarian is a death sentence... even if that one can't afford a full-round action to coup-de-grâce, he will still likely kill the sleeper with an AoO when he tries to get back on his feet.)

Quote:

As far as the better hexes.....

Likely would not go above 5th-6th level for witch then maybe a level ranger and then EK as the "better hexes" are not really impressive......

How is losing two levels of spellcasting more desirable than having to pick a sub-par spell-like ability to garnish your full casting?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Catharsis wrote:

Yes, I did plan to get a decent Dex.

Anyway, the hexes are supposed to be my bread-and-butter in combat while I don't have many spell slots available.

You have as many spell slots as a generalist Wizard.


Belsarious wrote:

The witch really benefits from a high dex...

AC
Ranged
and aids initiative

Mine is 16 dex for the +3 and then the greensting scorpion gives a +2 to initative so I am still throwing feats towards extra hex........

My Dex is a mighty 12! I'm going with trickery for Mirror Image as my early defence. Also my Str is 14 so I can use Spectral Hand to apply nasty touch spells at range.


As someone who is DMing for a witch playing in a 'Legacy of Fire' campaign, I can tell you that the sleep Hex seems really overpowered, to the point that I would take it AND the Sleep spell at low level. For one thing, its an unlimited 'Save or Die" effect that will effect a high percentage of most adventure's foes (humanoids, outsiders, magical beasts... pretty much anything except dragons, undead, plants, oozes, vermin, and elves.) Personally, I believe that the power's mechanic doesn't seem to play well with the rules of the PRPG. Its effectively an unlimited use ability that can kill any creature with a low will save or even a decent will save with bad luck; all of the old "Save or die" spells got changed so that they didn't kill outright. Other spells and abilities that have a "Save or Die" mechanic currently have massive stipulations on dying by the spell, such as two saves for Phantasmal Killer, or damage dealt instead of outright death on Finger of Death. Even Sleep and Deep Slumber have HD limits, which make them useful only to mid level... Similiar effects that take an opponent out of a fight such as the Fey-bloodline sorcerer's touch ability or Hideous Laughter don't reduce the opponent from completely healthy to utterly helpless. for that matter. The slumber Hex will never stop being useful. Big Bad Pit Fiend? Alseep. Terrifying Wendigo? He's asleep too, and getting coup-de-graced by the big barbarian. That said, why wouldn't you take an ability as early as possible that can end a fight (especially against any solo baddy or wandering giant beast) with one roll?


Not seeing the witch without a dip into something else....

Maybe ranged rogue for a level that way with the slumber hex you can attempt the coup yourself!.....

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

All the witch needs is some better high level hexes and I am sure they will be coming in future books. Both by paizo and 3pp. Personally looking forward to the first 3pp support book for witches.

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