Ranger's Focus awsome any way you slice it?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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So just looking at the Ranger Guide varient and I'm wondering if I'm missing somthing, becuase on face value it looks pretty awsome.

becuase I know everyone is lazy like me

Ranger’s Focus (Ex): At 1st level, once per day, the guide
can focus on a single enemy within line of sight as a swift
action. That creature remains the ranger’s focus until it
is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points or surrenders, or until
the ranger designates a new focus, whichever occurs first.
The ranger gains a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls
against the target of his focus. At 5th level, and every five
levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +2.
At 4th level, and every 3 levels thereafter, the ranger can
use this ability one additional time per day. This ability
replaces favored enemy.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but at 10th level 4 times a day you can pick any creature as a swift action (i.e. just before a full attack) and slap a whopping +6 to attack and +6 to damage on all your attacks. not only that you can apply that +6 to your CMB with a weapon designed to perform the CM your trying to pull off.

In fact it looks like this could poetntially give you the best chance of pulling off a CM consistently.

that on top of full BAB and other normal bonuses.

where's the downside ? is there one ?
4 times a day isn't really limiting becuase you full BAB character so hitting and killing minions ins't problem and how often are you going to fight four "hard" creatures in a single day ?

assuming you took this to 20 its +10 to attk/dmg 6 times a day

hell even a one level dip for +2attk/dmg once a day is not too shabby as a save for the big fight ability.

So yeah, as good as written ? or have I missed something ?


It seems pretty good for an assassin build. I am glad you found it, because I did not even see it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Just like the Paladin's Smite Evil, it depends on how many enemies you fight a day.


It looks to me like it is trying to fix Favored Enemy. FE grants more bonuses, but you can also end up in the situation where you have FE +6 (Magical Beasts) and spend 2 levels fighting undead, dragons and devils. At that point, you essentially have FE +0 (anything you actually interact with).

With Ranger's Focus, you instead get the same bonus you would with FE. You can only use it a few times a day, but you are guaranteed that you will be able to use it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

It's also subject to all the misdirection plays that Smite Evil is. That BBEG that you just focused on and peppered with arrows? Yep, minion in a disguise, and here's the real bad guy. You only had one use left? Looks like you're in for a tough fight.


Well, pretty much ALL rangers can do this now with their spells.

A level 4 ranger can use Hunter's Howl which let's him treat all enemies within 20 feet as if they are favored enemies if they fail a saving throw.

And at level 10, a ranger can use Instant Enemy as a swift action to consider any one enemy as if it were a favored enemy of his choice.

Liberty's Edge

Yes, Ranger's Focus is awesome.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Just like the Paladin's Smite Evil, it depends on how many enemies you fight a day.

True. I'm playing a ranger, and having FE bonuses is awesome for mowing down hordes of minions. I wouldn't want to give that up. Especially since it's not like a paladin's smite evil.

I guess someone should do the DPR calculations but I don't see how it's equivelant

It may add to the chances to hit, but it does less damage and does not bypass DR.


Mat Hanes wrote:

Well, pretty much ALL rangers can do this now with their spells.

A level 4 ranger can use Hunter's Howl which let's him treat all enemies within 20 feet as if they are favored enemies if they fail a saving throw.

And at level 10, a ranger can use Instant Enemy as a swift action to consider any one enemy as if it were a favored enemy of his choice.

I really need to take the time to look through the book. Every time I find out about something it is because someone on the site pointed it out. Thanks to you also.


Yeah, it's pretty cool. If you're in an environment where you're pretty certain you'll get a pile of your favored enemies, then you can augment that with instant enemy. Otherwise I really like the focus option as a very flexible approach that allows the ranger to be ready for the hard fights.

Instant enemy, unless you have a great wisdom, is only available once or twice a day from 10th to 14th. Hunter's Howl is OK, but only has a 20' radius and a will save. Most rangers don't have a monster wisdom, making these options good, but not great.


Trample wrote:


Instant enemy, unless you have a great wisdom, is only available once or twice a day from 10th to 14th. Hunter's Howl is OK, but only has a 20' radius and a will save. Most rangers don't have a monster wisdom, making these options good, but not great.

I will note that Wands exist...


pad300 wrote:
Trample wrote:


Instant enemy, unless you have a great wisdom, is only available once or twice a day from 10th to 14th. Hunter's Howl is OK, but only has a 20' radius and a will save. Most rangers don't have a monster wisdom, making these options good, but not great.
I will note that Wands exist...

Indeed they do. It depends on the campaign. In my current campaign I can't seem to buy one for anything, but in other situations they're readily available.


Note- rangers get bonus feats. Spare a regular one for craft wand. Ranger's utility spells are great but I never prep them. Hunters howl and instant Enemy are too good- carry a wand of them and you make fighters cry.


Considering Ranger can apply for Horizon walker for free gettting endurance feat for free, have good knowelge checks to ID critters

3 levels of horizon walker to get dimension door

fight starts, identify the biggest threat, focus on him then DDoor right behind him.

better yet DDoor yourself and the rogue behind him ;)


Ardenup wrote:
Note- rangers get bonus feats. Spare a regular one for craft wand. Ranger's utility spells are great but I never prep them. Hunters howl and instant Enemy are too good- carry a wand of them and you make fighters cry.

Or collaborate with the primary casters in your party. Or hire a craft specialist to build the wand especially for you. Or get one your primary casters to subcontract the job to the upper planes (Planar Ally/Planar Binding)... Lots of possibilities.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

You could also just be a Bard and Dimension Door the fighter behind the biggest threat. No need to focus or anything.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
You could also just be a Bard and Dimension Door the fighter behind the biggest threat. No need to focus or anything.

but there is cool factor about being the Hammer who can teleport and not a taxi driver ;)

with the focus bonus you could also do a pretty good job of keeping somone tripped and prone.

Grand Lodge

yes Focus is one of the greatest versions of smite ever, however you lose evasion, your hunters bond, and quarry to get it and a couple 2/day abilities; and I'm not always sure the trade offs are quite worth it, especially since at 20, you'll only have 7/day focuses, average encounter size matters.


9mm wrote:
yes Focus is one of the greatest versions of smite ever, however you lose evasion, your hunters bond, and quarry to get it and a couple 2/day abilities; and I'm not always sure the trade offs are quite worth it, especially since at 20, you'll only have 7/day focuses, average encounter size matters.

Exactly. As it stands, using Instant Enemy is a better option. You keep all your normal stuff (especially your wolf tripper buddy) and with your normal spell allocation you can make anything your best FE (up to +8 depending on FE allocation) 6/day provided you use all your 3rd and 4th level spell slots. Carry wands for utility.

Shadow Lodge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's also subject to all the misdirection plays that Smite Evil is. That BBEG that you just focused on and peppered with arrows? Yep, minion in a disguise, and here's the real bad guy. You only had one use left? Looks like you're in for a tough fight.

WTF, what kind of a bad guy would use that sort of petty deception?

Weaksauce. Real BBEGs believe in honor and would never hide behind minions like that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

*raised eyebrow* I can't tell if that is a joke or not.


Thoughts on the Guide varient for multiclassing into Horizon walker and other classes and PrC's

looks to be a better multiclasser than a straight ranger beucase you get the focus versatility whereas a stright ranger is going to be short on spells to make anyone a prefered enemy until later levels.

Level Split differences

Level 6
Ranger: Prefered Enemy +2,+4 , Hunter's bond +1,+2 or Animal Companion
vs
Range Guide: Ranger Focus +4 2/day, Terrian bond +2 int,per,stelth,sur

over 20 levels how often your prefered enemy comes up is going to be a pretty big X factor

Level 10
Ranger: Prefered Enemy +2,+4,+6 Evasion, Instant enemy 1/day
vs
Ranger Guide: Focus +6 4/day, Ranger's Luck

being able to garentee you can get your focus on 4 tough monsters vs 1 is a better imho. Evasion is better than luck , although if using hero points luck is more beneficial but probably still worse than evasion.

Level 11
Ranger: Quarry , Instant Enemy 2/day
vs
Ranger Guide: Inspired Moment Focus 4/day

Quarry while powerful is situational vs Insipired moment which you'd use every day, basically gives you pounce for 1 round move and full round action.

Level 16
Ranger: Improved Evasion, Instant Enemy 5/day, prefered enemy +8
vs
Ranger Guide: Improved luck 2/day +4 on reroll, +8 Focus 6/day

at this level improved evasion is probably better but luck isn't terrbile either again esp if using hero points.

My Conclusion:
For Multiclassing with 10 levels of Ranger I beleive the Guide is a better option that will ensure you bonus can be applied to the toughest foe's where's its needed.
11th level is probably the tipping point, and 12 or more ranger levels multiclass you'd probably be better as a straight ranger.


0gre wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's also subject to all the misdirection plays that Smite Evil is. That BBEG that you just focused on and peppered with arrows? Yep, minion in a disguise, and here's the real bad guy. You only had one use left? Looks like you're in for a tough fight.

WTF, what kind of a bad guy would use that sort of petty deception?

Weaksauce. Real BBEGs believe in honor and would never hide behind minions like that.

These sort of answers pop up every time something powerful is mentioned. For example many of the replies in the endless smite evil debates went like this:

"It's not too powerful, you just need to use dire animals and then he won't be able to use it!"

Anyways, it's not subject to all the misdirection plays that smite evil is. If you use your smite evil on a non-evil creature, the smite is wasted. If you use your ranger's focus on a disguised creature or whatever cooky scenario you can come up with, he still gains the bonuses to attack and damage.


Ellington wrote:
0gre wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It's also subject to all the misdirection plays that Smite Evil is. That BBEG that you just focused on and peppered with arrows? Yep, minion in a disguise, and here's the real bad guy. You only had one use left? Looks like you're in for a tough fight.

WTF, what kind of a bad guy would use that sort of petty deception?

Weaksauce. Real BBEGs believe in honor and would never hide behind minions like that.

These sort of answers pop up every time something powerful is mentioned. For example many of the replies in the endless smite evil debates went like this:

"It's not too powerful, you just need to use dire animals and then he won't be able to use it!"

Anyways, it's not subject to all the misdirection plays that smite evil is. If you use your smite evil on a non-evil creature, the smite is wasted. If you use your ranger's focus on a disguised creature or whatever cooky scenario you can come up with, he still gains the bonuses to attack and damage.

even if the GM did try this its not like the ability is only once/day , so if your furgal with your uses then you'll always have a spare to throw in case you get surprised.

Scarab Sages

Terrain Bond also synergizes well with all the extra Favored Terrains gained by Horizon Walker, thought that was worth pointin out.

-Drillboss


Remember, that by chosing the guide variant, you don´t just exchange the one class feature. You gvie up, amonst other things, your animal companion and evasion.

If you want to multiclass, some class variants are better than others, but it may not be worth it if you stay ranger till level 20.


udalrich wrote:
It looks to me like it is trying to fix Favored Enemy. FE grants more bonuses, but you can also end up in the situation where you have FE +6 (Magical Beasts) and spend 2 levels fighting undead, dragons and devils.

That's not a problem with FE as a class feature. That's a problem with the DM.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games


Spes Magna Mark wrote:
udalrich wrote:
It looks to me like it is trying to fix Favored Enemy. FE grants more bonuses, but you can also end up in the situation where you have FE +6 (Magical Beasts) and spend 2 levels fighting undead, dragons and devils.

That's not a problem with FE as a class feature. That's a problem with the DM.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

Instant enemy is the real fix to FE. That, and several pearls of power. =)


FiddlersGreen wrote:
Instant enemy is the real fix to FE. That, and several pearls of power. =)

:)

But no. Nothing that replaces what has become an iconic class feature with a spell and a magic item is a fix. My fix for FE: If you DM doesn't regularly give your ranger PC a change to thrash his FE, then you should kill your DM and take his stuff.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games


Spes Magna Mark wrote:

If your DM doesn't regularly give your ranger PC a change to thrash his FE, then you should kill your DM and take his stuff.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

+1 (I still carry a wand JUST in case)


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Sorry for the Threadromancy, but I'm working on a Horizon Walker right now, and this variant seemed very appropriate... then I noticed what happens when terrain dominance comes into play, which lets you treat your terrain bonus as a FE bonus.

Unless I am missing something in the reading, the focus and dominance as FE stack... Tack on the fact that you can end up rocking a +18 terrain bonus at 16th level if you focus on just one terrain... then fight some Big Bad from said terrain, focus on them, and hit the 'nuke' button at +22.

I don't know if I died inside, or merely changed alignment, but I just realized that most PCs are native to the urban environment....

...And the initiative is also +18 there.
...And so is the stealth to ambush and get away.
What have I just created?


+2 DRaino wrote:


What have I just created?

A character concept I thought up 20min ago xD

Edit: I am not saying I thought it first I just thought it was ironic


Seems VERY powerful, though limited. You'd be 'king of the streets' and actually reminds me of artemis enterai....

Pretty sure it works though


I've been tooting this horn since apg came out and currently have a ranger 6 hw 7 in a campaign and its extremely fun to play


I guess it depends on if the Ranger's Focus ability replacing the Favored Enemy bonus is meant to be considered a "similar bonus".

Terrain Dominance doesn't normally stack with a Favored Enemy bonus. It would seem the intent here is that it's not supposed to stack with the +2 to +10 bonus gained from the Ranger class, to prevent skyrocketing bonuses.

*shrug*


Kaisoku wrote:

I guess it depends on if the Ranger's Focus ability replacing the Favored Enemy bonus is meant to be considered a "similar bonus".

Terrain Dominance doesn't normally stack with a Favored Enemy bonus. It would seem the intent here is that it's not supposed to stack with the +2 to +10 bonus gained from the Ranger class, to prevent skyrocketing bonuses.

*shrug*

My first instinct is actually to agree with you, but that didn't stop me from dreaming for a second.

And as for the king of the streets, who needs an assassin when this guy can be an inner-city ambush? As a PC, he's WAY too limited, playing him would be better done with diversity in mind, but as an antagonist the focus is fine, though I'd still have the humanity left in me to keep some scaling in mind relative to the CR charts in the bestiary.

Back to the actual topic then: would you think that the favored defense feat should apply to ranger's focus?


Specifically, the Favored Defense feat is designed to work with the Favored Enemy class feature.

However, as a DM I'd allow the feat to work with Ranger's Focus, or come up with one that worked with that mechanic.

For that matter, a feat like "Extra Ranger Focus" (for more daily uses) or a spell like "Divide Focus" (to split bonus against multiple enemies, etc), would also still be appropriate, if homebrew.


Kaisoku wrote:

Specifically, the Favored Defense feat is designed to work with the Favored Enemy class feature.

Not only would I allow it to work that way, our group allows it to work against a non FE you've just cast Instant Enemy on...(for vanilla rangers)


Phasics wrote:


Ranger’s Focus (Ex): At 1st level,** once per day **, the guide can focus on a single enemy within line of sight as a swift action.

That creature remains the ranger’s focus until it is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points or surrenders,** or until the ranger designates a new focus**, whichever occurs first.

At 4th level, and every 3 levels thereafter, the ranger can **use this ability one additional time per day**.

This ability replaces favored enemy.

Help Please!

I am playing a Ranger Guide. Those that I play with say that at level 1-3 I can only choose one FE (focus target) per day, and ONLY once I reach level 4 can I use the "redesignation" option as only then would I have an additional time per day to choose a new focus.

I don't see it that way. To me it reads that as long as I (or someone else) hasn't killed or incap'd my focus I can change my focus to a new target, but that I can only have 1 target at a time and one for the day, so if my original target dies my ability to focus is used up.

True that some could possibly abuse the ability to shoot one arrow at guy #1 then refocus and shoot guy #2 once then refocus again and again until someone died that was in my line of sight, however that is not how I am playing him (nor would I ever).

Example. Focused on a Big Tick, then Giant Centipede entered and I wanted to switch my focus (I was level 2 at the time). They did not want to let me switch my focus even though the tick was still up and attacking (and eventually killing one of our party). They claimed that I would only be able to switch once I reached level 4, but I think that at level 4 I would have been able to focus on both. Otherwise, if the switch uses up another ability in that way, you would rarely ever be able to use your additional uses unless you never killed your target.

Also, later that same day we were attacked by bandits. Had I been level 4 and killed the tick using a focus early in the day, would I be able to then focus a 2nd time on a bandit? Per me yes, whether the 2 targets for the day are at the same time or at different parts of the day it should not matter.

Why would anyone use up an ability to switch off of one target onto another? It should be (at 4th) 2 per day = 2 single focuses whether they are standing next to each other or one came in the morning and one at night.

There is no clarity for time it takes to refocus, would that also be swift? I could see the potential problem, but how is that avoided? No one else on any thread seems to be addressing this issue.

Please Help.


If you wish to change the focus to a new target then it uses a new focus. In other words choose your focuses carefully.

You can't whittle someone's hit points down until they are almost dead then change that focus to another target. That is getting to much use out of one focus.

Since a switching focuses is the same as activating a new one it is a swift action.

PS:I did see where you said you would not abuse the focus if it worked like you wanted it to, but many would. I think that is a good balance with favored enemy. One is always on and automatic, but only against certain things, while the other one is more limited in different ways, but the freedom of choice makes it very powerful.


Not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but nonetheless:

The Guide Archetype would gain nothing by the spell "Instant Enemy", because there is no favoured enemy for him, right?

For me, that's the crucial point. Would the guide be able to use instant enemy as "Ranger's Focus", he would stay valid in higher levels. Even without a companion.

But without the spell, he simply lags behind too much; I can somehow understand people calling it a "trap" then.


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Ardenup wrote:
9mm wrote:
yes Focus is one of the greatest versions of smite ever, however you lose evasion, your hunters bond, and quarry to get it and a couple 2/day abilities; and I'm not always sure the trade offs are quite worth it, especially since at 20, you'll only have 7/day focuses, average encounter size matters.
Exactly. As it stands, using Instant Enemy is a better option. You keep all your normal stuff (especially your wolf tripper buddy) and with your normal spell allocation you can make anything your best FE (up to +8 depending on FE allocation) 6/day provided you use all your 3rd and 4th level spell slots. Carry wands for utility.

As I like that the Guide's favored terrain bonuses apply to all allies including the init bonuses and all allies P W/out Trace (better than bond IMO) I can certainly see going guide even with reduced evasion.


Turgan wrote:

Not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but nonetheless:

The Guide Archetype would gain nothing by the spell "Instant Enemy", because there is no favoured enemy for him, right?

For me, that's the crucial point. Would the guide be able to use instant enemy as "Ranger's Focus", he would stay valid in higher levels. Even without a companion.

But without the spell, he simply lags behind too much; I can somehow understand people calling it a "trap" then.

Ask your GM. RAW, no.

Rangers Focus is basically Instant Enemy from level one though.

Going back to the initial discussion, I like Ranger's Focus a lot better than FE, simply because it is no limited by the GM's decisions.


@Cheapy: Thanks for the answer. Does that mean: RAW no, RAI perhaps?

Similar problem: Fighter Archetypes and Dueling Gloves.


Dragonsong wrote:
Ardenup wrote:
9mm wrote:
yes Focus is one of the greatest versions of smite ever, however you lose evasion, your hunters bond, and quarry to get it and a couple 2/day abilities; and I'm not always sure the trade offs are quite worth it, especially since at 20, you'll only have 7/day focuses, average encounter size matters.
Exactly. As it stands, using Instant Enemy is a better option. You keep all your normal stuff (especially your wolf tripper buddy) and with your normal spell allocation you can make anything your best FE (up to +8 depending on FE allocation) 6/day provided you use all your 3rd and 4th level spell slots. Carry wands for utility.
As I like that the Guide's favored terrain bonuses apply to all allies including the init bonuses and all allies P W/out Trace (better than bond IMO) I can certainly see going guide even with reduced evasion.

Inititive bonus could mean a difference in being hasted or not.

I always thought instant enemy works with guide archtype.


pad300 wrote:
Trample wrote:


Instant enemy, unless you have a great wisdom, is only available once or twice a day from 10th to 14th. Hunter's Howl is OK, but only has a 20' radius and a will save. Most rangers don't have a monster wisdom, making these options good, but not great.
I will note that Wands exist...

At a cost of 30 000 gp.

Dark Archive

9000 GP for a 3rd level pearl of power though. Just saying.

If it didn't lose your animal companion I'd love the guide; but with Boon Companion bringing you an on-level animal companion, it's the better option usually. Just pick the enemies for stronger battles (evil outsiders and undead are great at most levels after 6) and instant enemy at higher levels when necessary.


Thalin wrote:

9000 GP for a 3rd level pearl of power though. Just saying.

If it didn't lose your animal companion I'd love the guide; but with Boon Companion bringing you an on-level animal companion, it's the better option usually. Just pick the enemies for stronger battles (evil outsiders and undead are great at most levels after 6) and instant enemy at higher levels when necessary.

I dont know if a wolf, probably the best animal companion can make up for the difference. If a homebrew game where enemies may be random I think guide is better, but if the game has a theme such as evil outsiders or undead then a regular ranger may be the way to go.


I think instant enemy is a useful spell and provides some of the the core rangers with a much needed way to "spread the hate around." But the range on it makes me disinclined to take it for any archer build: 25ft +5 per 2 caster levels ouch.


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Another overlooked downside to Ranger's Focus. It is pretty much a combat only thing. Favored enemy gives you bonuses outside of combat. Taking FE Human is a great choice in intrigue heavy campaigns because of the bonuses to Bluff, Sense Motive, and Perception.

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