It does indeed apply to them, although it might not be a two-way street. The religious teachings of one deity don't have to be fact or true for another, and there are absolutely contradictions.Hi James,
A very good morning to you, I was just looking at the Shelyn writeup where it says
Shelyn is in a unique position among
the deities in that everyone loves her and
wishes to please her...And then goes into the various ways that the different deities might want to pay court. I was just wanting to know if this applied to ascetic deities as well, such as Irori, and what form the affection of a deity who disdain's worldly connections might take.
There is probably a religious text involved somewhere here. The 99 temptations of the Master or something.
prototype00
This statement has got me wondering. I had always viewed the whole "everyone loves Shelyn" thing as more of an inherent property of being a goddess of love, rather than as one of her teachings (or those of her church). I would contrast this with the idea of Calistria having slept with many other deities, which definitely comes across as rumor rather than fact.
In the various deity articles, is there any sort of line drawn (if not explicitly, then at least behind the scenes) between things that are fact versus things that are taught by specific deities or believed by their worshipers? Or is that left intentionally vague?
Basically, when it says that everyone loves Shelyn, does that mean that the Church of Shelyn believes that everyone loves her, or is it an actual "law of divine physics" or something?
Or, to make things more confusing, it is possible the contradictory teachings from different deities can all be true, despite apparent impossibilities? They are gods, after all.
*As a side note/response to the original question*: The idea of Irori loving Shelyn doesn't seem particularly strange or contradictory to me. Irori has never come across as uncaring, but rather as believing in individual self perfection. I would expect his love towards Shelyn to manifest as that of a patient teacher, encouraging her to improve herself at every opportunity.
Hey James,
So I've heard various answers on both sides of the spectrum, but is playing as a kasatha in Iron Gods really like "playing as Karzoug's apprentice in RotRL or a drow in Second Darkness", ie to the point of being too out of place to play? A player in the Iron Gods group I'm gathering to play the minute IG comes out in August REALLY likes those four-armed weirdos and wants to play as one for this game, especially with the announcement that more goodies for them will be revealed in People of the Stars.
One more question: so it's pretty clear that at some point in Iron Gods, the party will be going to the Silver Mount. But it feels a bit weird exploring a "dungeon" that's likely already been thoroughly explored and mapped and cleared by the Technic League. Are there parts of the Silver Mount that the League hasn't discovered yet?
Okay one MORE question, since I know that fully answering both of the above questions might require revealing plot details that you're not ready to reveal yet: will either of these questions be explored (not necessarily answered) in the Numeria book this June?
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1)Why do people still worship Aroden if they know he is dead?
2)is the gap in power between demigods and deity level beings huge as inner sea gods said that the Oinodaemons power exceeds that of even the Four Horsemen combined?
3)Are there things that deity level beings can do that demigod level beings cant do?
1) Not many people do, actually. Those who do probably do so out of a combination of hope, ignorance, and stubbornness.
2) Since we don't have rules for deity level beings, the gap is impossible to measure.
3) Yes. Deity level beings don't have to follow the game rules.
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Basically, when it says that everyone loves Shelyn, does that mean that the Church of Shelyn believes that everyone loves her, or is it an actual "law of divine physics" or something?
That's the viewpoint of Shelyn's church. It's not the viewpoint of an unbiased impartial existence. It's not a divine law.
That said, deities break rules. It can be both incorrect and correct at the same time, in other words. It doesn't have to follow the rules of logic.
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1)Are there any gods that view there worshipers as there children?
2)Will you ever change your mind about not giving demigods Heralds?
3)Do the divine servitors and minions of the gods worship the god they serve?
4)Do the divine servitors and minions of the gods build Temples and shrines to there god in the god's planer realm?
1) You asked that before... the answer remains, "Not really."
2) Never say never. But there's gotta be a good reason to change that decision, and right now, it being one of the ways we differentiate between demigod and deity is more valuable than getting rid of that.
3) Almost always.
4) Sometimes, but temple building is usually a mortal worshiper's job.
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I know gods can create life but can the gods create stars and planets or ever something the size of a galaxy?
Planets and stars and galaxys have to come from somewhere, but whether they were created by the gods or something else... that's not something I'm interested in nailing down as a fact.
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Hey James,
So I've heard various answers on both sides of the spectrum, but is playing as a kasatha in Iron Gods really like "playing as Karzoug's apprentice in RotRL or a drow in Second Darkness", ie to the point of being too out of place to play? A player in the Iron Gods group I'm gathering to play the minute IG comes out in August REALLY likes those four-armed weirdos and wants to play as one for this game, especially with the announcement that more goodies for them will be revealed in People of the Stars.
One more question: so it's pretty clear that at some point in Iron Gods, the party will be going to the Silver Mount. But it feels a bit weird exploring a "dungeon" that's likely already been thoroughly explored and mapped and cleared by the Technic League. Are there parts of the Silver Mount that the League hasn't discovered yet?
Okay one MORE question, since I know that fully answering both of the above questions might require revealing plot details that you're not ready to reveal yet: will either of these questions be explored (not necessarily answered) in the Numeria book this June?
It'd be like playing a Thassilonian in Rise of the Runelords, in that the slow revelation of the kasatha story is part of Iron Gods... and having a kasatha PC in the party would devalue and neuter that storyline. Furthermore... I'm of the opinion that the game doesn't work well with four-armed characters. The further you get from the human shape, the more the game's underlying structure of rules strains and breaks.
So... you CAN do it... but it'd be like using a gun to open a can of beans; it's using the wrong tool for the job. It'll probably work, but you might shoot your foot off.
Silver Mount hasn't been "thoroughly explored and mapped and cleared" by the Technic League. They've barely scratched the surface of it, for reasons that will be revealed later.
No. They're part of Iron Gods, and as such, revelations about these plot points are perhaps hinted at in the Numeria book, but they are not answered there.
I am taking my PC into the mana wastes, I know that there is primal magic areas. but are there dead magic areas as well? and if so how would you run those areas? does it shut down all magic including weapons and spells or just spells?
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I am taking my PC into the mana wastes, I know that there is primal magic areas. but are there dead magic areas as well? and if so how would you run those areas? does it shut down all magic including weapons and spells or just spells?
Dead magic is described in the GameMastery Guide, if I recall correctly. There are certainly some of those areas in the Mana Wastes, but we use them sparingly if at all, since it's pretty lame and frustrating and not-fun to create environments that make specific classes just not function.
Basically, when it says that everyone loves Shelyn, does that mean that the Church of Shelyn believes that everyone loves her, or is it an actual "law of divine physics" or something?That's the viewpoint of Shelyn's church. It's not the viewpoint of an unbiased impartial existence. It's not a divine law.
That said, deities break rules. It can be both incorrect and correct at the same time, in other words. It doesn't have to follow the rules of logic.
Good to know. Is that true of most/all of the information in the Deity articles, or are there parts that are intended to be facts?
Since I'm usually the GM for our group, I'm accustomed to reading things like adventures and campaign setting books, where the curtain is often pulled back and I can treat the presented information as fact (unless I want to alter it, of course). It's a bit of a challenge to shift my thinking away from that mindset. I guess as the GM, whichever parts I like best are facts. :P
Anyway, thanks for the answer.
It'd be like playing a Thassilonian in Rise of the Runelords, in that the slow revelation of the kasatha story is part of Iron Gods... and having a kasatha PC in the party would devalue and neuter that storyline. Furthermore... I'm of the opinion that the game doesn't work well with four-armed characters. The further you get from the human shape, the more the game's underlying structure of rules strains and breaks.
So... you CAN do it... but it'd be like using a gun to open a can of beans; it's using the wrong tool for the job. It'll probably work, but you might shoot your foot off.
Admittedly, the same player has already been hounding me for some pretty ludicrous combinations involving bombs and guns that immediately gave me a migraine when he explained them. Guess I'll have to settle to watching him squirm when they're slowly revealed as whatever they are!
Silver Mount hasn't been "thoroughly explored and mapped and cleared" by the Technic League. They've barely scratched the surface of it, for reasons that will be revealed later.
Welp, glad I was wrong. Thanks for answering!
Basically, when it says that everyone loves Shelyn, does that mean that the Church of Shelyn believes that everyone loves her, or is it an actual "law of divine physics" or something?That's the viewpoint of Shelyn's church. It's not the viewpoint of an unbiased impartial existence. It's not a divine law.
That said, deities break rules. It can be both incorrect and correct at the same time, in other words. It doesn't have to follow the rules of logic.
Good to know. Is that true of most/all of the information in the Deity articles, or are there parts that are intended to be facts?
Since I'm usually the GM for our group, I'm accustomed to reading things like adventures and campaign setting books, where the curtain is often pulled back and I can treat the presented information as fact (unless I want to alter it, of course). It's a bit of a challenge to shift my thinking away from that mindset. I guess as the GM, whichever parts I like best are facts. :P
Anyway, thanks for the answer.
Not many gods/goddesses want to kill Shelyn, but quite a few would gladly torture her and/or turn her evil and/or etc...
Sorry for asking another question so soon, but now I'm awfully curious.
In the opening of Snows of Summer, "A Doorway to New Worlds", it explicitly spoils where Reign of Winter will take the players in the fifth part of Reign of Winter, as does the Campaign Outline at the end of the book. Was that text in the PDF altered somehow so as to not reveal the big surprise to everyone before Rasputin Must Die! was announced? As I recall, Paizo's announcement of Rasputin Must Die! was taken very much as a surprise, but at that time I hadn't bought any of the Reign of Winter books or PDFs, and I have not yet been a subscriber to the Adventure Paths so I don't know how that works.
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Basically, when it says that everyone loves Shelyn, does that mean that the Church of Shelyn believes that everyone loves her, or is it an actual "law of divine physics" or something?That's the viewpoint of Shelyn's church. It's not the viewpoint of an unbiased impartial existence. It's not a divine law.
That said, deities break rules. It can be both incorrect and correct at the same time, in other words. It doesn't have to follow the rules of logic.
Good to know. Is that true of most/all of the information in the Deity articles, or are there parts that are intended to be facts?
Since I'm usually the GM for our group, I'm accustomed to reading things like adventures and campaign setting books, where the curtain is often pulled back and I can treat the presented information as fact (unless I want to alter it, of course). It's a bit of a challenge to shift my thinking away from that mindset. I guess as the GM, whichever parts I like best are facts. :P
Anyway, thanks for the answer.
They are facts as far as that religion is concerned. And that generally means that they're just plain facts. We generally try not to contradict ourselves though.
The GM gets to be the final arbiter of which things are true, of course.
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Sorry for asking another question so soon, but now I'm awfully curious.
In the opening of Snows of Summer, "A Doorway to New Worlds", it explicitly spoils where Reign of Winter will take the players in the fifth part of Reign of Winter, as does the Campaign Outline at the end of the book. Was that text in the PDF altered somehow so as to not reveal the big surprise to everyone before Rasputin Must Die! was announced? As I recall, Paizo's announcement of Rasputin Must Die! was taken very much as a surprise, but at that time I hadn't bought any of the Reign of Winter books or PDFs, and I have not yet been a subscriber to the Adventure Paths so I don't know how that works.
Nope. We actually announced "Rasputin Must Die!" long before we released the first adventure, back at the previous Paizocon. By the time the first volume of the AP was out, it was pretty much out... although a lot of folks probably found out about it for the first time in that volume anyway.
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I know gods can create life but can the gods create stars and planets or ever something the size of a galaxy?Planets and stars and galaxys have to come from somewhere, but whether they were created by the gods or something else... that's not something I'm interested in nailing down as a fact.Will i was not asking if the gods had created the Planets and stars and galaxys but is it possible for a god to create a Planet and star and maybe a galaxy?
such as Shelyn creating a Planet of perfect Beauty where the air sings songs and the trees are art and there is love everywhere and the sun shines down in all the colors of the rainbow like a laser light show
It's absolutely possilbe for a god to create a planet, star, or galaxy. Not all the deities have that power, but some do.
Mr. James Jacobs,
About the Godzilla:
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Mr. James Jacobs,
About the Godzilla:
Spoiler:I have not seen the new Godzilla movie however from what I have heard they made Godzilla into a "Green" pro human hero. Is that the case?
In fact...
Hey James what do you think of these product ideas?
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Hey James what do you think of these product ideas?
1) Globe: Not sure how we'd do this or create it, and even if we did, I suspect it'd be very expensive. I do want to nail down the shape and position of our continents and oceans some day though. I would love to be proved wrong about the impracticality of creating this product.
2) Deluxe Maps: Again... not sure we'd be able to do these and justify the cost. Maps are expensive to create. Again, I would love to be proved wrong about this one.
3) A fancy edition of the Book of the Damned would be neat... but again... as with the previous options, it's not really something we do a lot of.
Paizo publishes a LOT of stuff each month, and that more or less has us running at 100% capacity. Adding a deluxe, limited edition of anything would tend to throw our schedule off and cause a lot of production problems to said schedule. It's just not a business model we follow. Which is too bad, since I love how the deluxe edition of Rise of the Runelords turned out.
Time will tell, but deluxe limited editions aren't high on our to-do list for the moment.
And to justify the costs in creating these things... we'd have to set the price SUPER high. At least, the customer base would interpret it as "SUPER high" even if we set the price as low as possible.
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It's absolutely possilbe for a god to create a planet, star, or galaxy. Not all the deities have that power, but some do.I know gods can create life but can the gods create stars and planets or ever something the size of a galaxy?Planets and stars and galaxys have to come from somewhere, but whether they were created by the gods or something else... that's not something I'm interested in nailing down as a fact.Will i was not asking if the gods had created the Planets and stars and galaxys but is it possible for a god to create a Planet and star and maybe a galaxy?
such as Shelyn creating a Planet of perfect Beauty where the air sings songs and the trees are art and there is love everywhere and the sun shines down in all the colors of the rainbow like a laser light show
1)Now are you using the word "deities" as in a Generic term for all god or are you taking about deity level beings?
2)does the power and age of the deity have anything to do with if the deity can create Planets,star and galaxys? such as it is something that Pharasma,Desna and Sarenrae can do but Iomedae and Cayden Cailean cant do?
1) "Deity" is a gender-neutral term for divine creatures that are more powerful than demigods. I generally only use the term "deity" when referring to beings that are deity-level, since the word is the same.
2) We don't have rules for deities. What allows a deity the power to create a planet, star, or galaxy is if we (or a GM) wants that deity to have that power in order to have a story happen. Those kinds of stories are generally beyond the scope of what we want to tell with Golarion, and so it's not going to be something we nail down anytime soon, if ever.
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1)Do gods reward there more powerful worshipers often?
2)What type of reward would a god usually give a worshiper they favored?
3)I know the Osirion gods aren't worship much in Osirion any more and have moved on to other planets. But do they ever keep tabs on the worshipers they do have still there?
4)what do you think of a Cleric trying to promote the worship of a Osirion god out side of Osirion?
5)would Lissala ever return to Golarion if her worship became big enough?
1) No.
2) It would vary, based on the god/goddess involved, the person being rewarded, what they did to be rewarded, and more.
3) "Keeping tabs" isn't how I would put it. They're aware of their worshipers, though.
4) That's kinda what a cleric is supposed to do.
5) Maybe.
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1)How would Iomedae feel or react to a Cleric or other type of worshiper spreading her faith on the planet of Triaxus or Castrovel?
2)Would a kasatha or an android ever worship Iomedae?
1) She would support it. Again, spreading the faith is kind of the cleric or other worshiper's job.
2) Why wouldn't they? Iomedae isn't a racist, and neither is her faith.
Good evening from the east coast James! I hope your work is more fun than stressful as of late!
1. Were the tian gods involved in the fight against Rovagug?
2. What would you say are the biggest differences between Shizuru and Iomedae, besides the fact Iomedae was once mortal?
3. Are there any countries that are closer to the ethereal plane than others?
4. Outside of Valashmai, what would you say the best Tian country for high level play is? I'm thinking Chu Ye or Xa Hoi but curious on your opinion.
5. Do any of the former countries that now make up Kaoling have official names?
6. I always pegged him at CR 29 myself, but does Cyth-V'sug have a CR that has or can be revealed?
7. I've heard the Mud Sorcerer's Tomb is a solid dungeon crawl from back in the day. If the mud sorcerers had been on Golarion at any point and had left behind tombs, where would be the best fit for them?
Thank you again for taking time out of your schedule to answer questions, and best of luck at Paizo-con next month!
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I was pleasantly surprised by Occult Mysteries, but one omission really bugged me. I thought for sure this'd be the book that gave us the dirt on the Prophets of Kalistrade, but they're nowhere to be found.
I've always found the description of their prohibitions to be frustratingly vague. They're apparently stringent sexual and dietary prohbitions, but don't say what those rules ARE. Do they forbid the eating of certain kinds of meat or all meat entirely? How can you play a Prophet of Kalistrade as a PC if you don't know the rules?
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Hey James, in regards to Mythic Adventures, for the Archmage path, do different abilities which force an opponent to roll a save twice and take the lower value stack? I.e. if utilizing two abilities which allowed that, does the target(s) roll 3 saves and choose the lowest value?
They don't stack. If only because that helps minimize player turn length.
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Is this you?
Nope. I'm a real person! That just links to my ENworld profile page. :-P
Why do you ask? I'm not super active on ENworld anymore, but I lurk around there on the forums maybe one a week.
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Hmm. A question:
2) Why wouldn't they? Iomedae isn't a racist, and neither is her faith.In her entry from Inner Sea Gods:
"She [Iomedae] loathes incorrigible evil, fiendspawn, traitors, and those who abuse good in the name of "greater" good."
Fiendspawn would presumably include tieflings, half-fiends and so on, so that's at least one "race" that she's stated to loathe (no caveat was given in the text for alignment). Has she had too many bad experiences with fiendspawn to trust them? Or is the ISG book in error?
Fiendspawn does include tieflings and half-fiends and so on. Of course, those who are non-evil (as in the case of good-aligned or even neutral aligned) and thus are not evil are not loathed by her. The ISG book isn't in error—she does hate demons and their spawn... but the ISG book also maybe phrased that a bit too hyperbolic.
In any event, that wasn't what the original question was about.
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I was pleasantly surprised by Occult Mysteries, but one omission really bugged me. I thought for sure this'd be the book that gave us the dirt on the Prophets of Kalistrade, but they're nowhere to be found.
I've always found the description of their prohibitions to be frustratingly vague. They're apparently stringent sexual and dietary prohbitions, but don't say what those rules ARE. Do they forbid the eating of certain kinds of meat or all meat entirely? How can you play a Prophet of Kalistrade as a PC if you don't know the rules?
It's hard for me to take a compliment that starts with "I was pleasantly surprised..." without assuming that you were expecting it to be terrible, of course... which makes me wonder what we've done to engender that expectation...
ANYway.
The book was only 64 pages long, so we couldn't cover everything. In the grand scheme of things, the Prophets of Kalistrade ranked low on two scales:
1) The overall importance to the campaign setting...
2) The interest level of the writers.
Doesn't mean we'll never explore the Prophets of Kalistrade, but it wasn't something we wanted to talk about in this book, because we were more interested in talking about what we DID talk about.
As for how you play a Prophet of Kalistrade as a PC? You ask your GM to come up with the rules if we haven't published them. That's one of the things the GM gets to do. If you aren't comfortable letting your GM make those decisions, or you aren't comfortable as a GM making those decisions, then I guess you have to limit your character options to things we've written about.
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Good evening from the east coast James! I hope your work is more fun than stressful as of late!
1. Were the tian gods involved in the fight against Rovagug?
2. What would you say are the biggest differences between Shizuru and Iomedae, besides the fact Iomedae was once mortal?
3. Are there any countries that are closer to the ethereal plane than others?
4. Outside of Valashmai, what would you say the best Tian country for high level play is? I'm thinking Chu Ye or Xa Hoi but curious on your opinion.
5. Do any of the former countries that now make up Kaoling have official names?
6. I always pegged him at CR 29 myself, but does Cyth-V'sug have a CR that has or can be revealed?
7. I've heard the Mud Sorcerer's Tomb is a solid dungeon crawl from back in the day. If the mud sorcerers had been on Golarion at any point and had left behind tombs, where would be the best fit for them?Thank you again for taking time out of your schedule to answer questions, and best of luck at Paizo-con next month!
1) No.
2) Shizuru has a lot more tradition and is a lot older, and thus moves in even more mysterious ways than Iomedae, and is likely more tied to her traditions as a result.
3) No. The ethereal plane is equally distant/equally near throughout the Material Plane. It might have "thin" spots here and there, but those are MUCH smaller than a nation in size.
4) The big mountain range whose name I can't remember. World's Edge?
5) We haven't invented them yet, so, I guess no.
6) He's CR 29.
7) The mainland portion of the Shackles.
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Hey James, in regards to Mythic Adventures, for the Archmage path, do different abilities which force an opponent to roll a save twice and take the lower value stack? I.e. if utilizing two abilities which allowed that, does the target(s) roll 3 saves and choose the lowest value?They don't stack. If only because that helps minimize player turn length.
Ok, thank you. That was bugging me for a while, especially since it could also apply to similar mechanics involving a player's ability to punch through SR.
I have a couple questions about the PF gods. I know that several of the gods were direct imports from your homebrew or strongly based on your homebrew gods (Sarenrae, Pharasma and Desna if memory serves).
1) Are there any gods that you chose not to import and why?
2) I've noticed that a large number of the big 20 are former Mortals. 6 if my count is correct, and that doesn't include Aroden. Was this a conscious decision, was there any particular reason (beyond making the Starstone cool)?
3) of the big 20, it's pretty balanced along alignment lines, 2 for each of the 9 Alignments, plus 1 extra for N and LG. Any particular reason the extras went there instead of in another alignment? Are there any gods that you created specifically because you didn't have enough NE gods yet?
4) you have said that one of your design decisions for the gods was to have each domain offered by at least 2 different gods. Kind of following off #3 did you have to make a new god so that you can get a second god with XX domain?
Hi James,
Thanks for being available to answer questions. I have a dispute that comes up at almost every table I've played at and unfortunately has always been hotly disagreed upon.
Out of character war tactics.
This comes up a lot, especially in the play by posts of which I am a part. It's my opinion that discussing tactics in a situation where your character is unable to do so is meta gaming. I've always played "speak on your turn and no more than at most two sentences." Meanwhile I'm playing a game with a monk who has taken a vow of silence but the PC feels that reminding people of their best moves is just improving the game. His argument: my characters int is 8 and his is 18 so he's more likely to think of it. You bet your ass I'll bring it up OOC.
I think the world, both in game and our, doesn't work that way. His low int is reflected in his int check, int based skill checks, and number of skill. I think that players should play their own characters and that part of the fun is functioning as a team in the heat of battle. I think the only type of out of character tactical discussion that should occur is something along the lines of "don't forget to add that bless to your attack roll." But I feel like it's up to a player to remember they have, say, protection from evil if it's going to effect how they act and I think it's up to the wizard to explain the effects when he casts it. Just because you have a spell on you doesn't give you an automatically successful spell craft check.
Clearly there is a lot going on here and it seems equally clear there is going to be a lot of table variation. That means you may not be able to address this. Further, I imagine the right answer is hard to tack down due to the circumstantiality of many of these issues but having read all of what I've typed, would you have any input that might help one or both of us settle our disagreement?
Mr. James Jacobs,
Were there any gods not native to Golarion that fought in the battle against Rovagug and if so are they still extant somewhere?
1)For the People of the Stars book, how much info will we get for the 4 alien races mentioned(Android, Lashunta, Triaxian, Kasatha), like less then a page, a page, or more then a page?
2)What 7 races would you pic as the new core races for a sword and planet style adventure?
3)On a scale of 1 to 5 how many stars would you give the new Godzilla?
4)Will there ever be a pathfinder version of Buddhism, Shintoism, or Daoism?
5)Can druids of the Green Faith get there power from the first world itself? If not Is there any religion that is based on the First World, and not the fey lords?
6)Have you seen Frozen, ParaNorman, Wreck It Ralph, Epic, Rise of the Guardians, and/or Mr. Peabody and Sherman? If so what did you think?
7)Will you be seeing Guardians of the Galaxy? If so is there anything you are looking forward too?
8)What are all the non-core races you have played in pathfinder?
9)Are there any Kaiju in the Inner Sea region?