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While we're on the topic of paladins, what were the most common paladin patrons in ancient Azlant? I assume Shelyn and Abadar, since they've been explicitly mentioned to have originated as Azlanti deities, but I'm wondering if others were involved (I understand if this topic is one that simply hasn't been developed enough yet to give a concise answer).
Also, I'm debating adding mythic rules to a campaign idea I have which is basically "The PCs are various people who through sheer luck or some divine providence, survived Earthfall." The idea is a post-apocalyptic campaign set during the Age of Darkness (I've been watching way too much Adventure Time lately), and figure that mythic would probably be a requirement for a story like this, since this is a time when folks like Aroden and Old-Mage Jatembe are beginning their legends. Good idea? Bad idea? The sort of theme I have in mind is "The world hasn't ended...it has changed."
We haven't set in stone enough about Azlant for me to say who the most common paladin patrons were... but I can say this—paladins were MUCH less common in Azlant than they were today. Shelyn probably had no paladins back then, but Abadar certainly did. There was probably another patron as well who's moved on or died or been forgotten... maybe.
Mythic would indeed be a good idea for that, especially if you set it up so that the PCs would have died except for the fact that they survived through sheer divine providence. It'd be a LOT of work though, since you'd essentially be building a campaign setting to run it.
Honestly, I figured that'd happen anyway. I don't wanna put words in you guys' mouths, but I imagine you guys are more focusing on Golarion's present and future in APs and stuff. Part of why I picked the Age of Darkness is BECAUSE it's so vague. A thousand years where major historical events are few and far between. In other words, perfect campaign fodder!
I've got a thread set up for getting the campaign setting rolling over in Suggestions. Feel free to drop a suggestion or anything if you feel like it :)
So...I know you probably won't say what Aroden was up to during the Age of Darkness, but how powerful WAS he at that time? I know he didn't ascend to godhood until lifting the Starstone up, which took place an age or two later, and you've indicated that he was already a pretty powerful mage when Earthfall happened, which is probably part of why he survived. I'm just not sure how much figures like him and Old-Mage Jatembe should factor in such a campaign, as in terms of history, they'd definitely overshadow the PCs.
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With the mythic game does a familiar gain anything as you gain mythic levels. In the games I play with my group familiars are a part of the group often entering into battle. If a familiar is a Extension of the spell caster wouldn't they gain some mythic ability?
There's not a lot of options yet for something like a mythic familiar. We DO tinker a bit with this concept in Wrath of the Righteous... but only for one NPC, not as a PC option.
I noticed that one of the original iconics was named after an actual place/character(s) in a book. Was this by accident or design? (I'm just curious, really. Coincidences do happen.)
Hi JJ, ever heard about the Persian Shadhavar or Shadow Unicorn?
Do you like the creature?
Would this creature make a chance of ever appearing inside a Bestiary (AP or Hard Cover Bestiary) or not?
I had not.
It's okay. Thing is, there's a lot of different monster types that essentially do the same exact thing. This creature sounds like a leucrotta—a four-legged evil monster who uses a sound to lure you in, and if we DID stat it up, it would need something more to it than just that.
It's from mythology, so of course it has a chance of showing up in a bestiary!
Well it's a Shadow/Dark/Black Unicorn (mostly an antilope-unicorn) like creature in some of the myths so that can be done differtly from the Leucrotta of course as the leucrotta misses a unicorn horn.
I do agree about the sound lure being similar to the Leucrotta's ability, I kinda forgot about the Leucrotta's abilities.But the sound-based lure can be changed a bit to create a different sonic-based attack maybe to lullaby creature to sleep or turn them more violent depending on how the wind blows into the horn for example. (to make it different from the Siren, Harpy and Leucrotta.)
The best thing about this creature is the Black Unicorn thing (in my opinion) and the awesome name. So I hope you guys do something original and cool with it, remember not every mytholgical creature in Pathfinder has to be 100% like their real world counterpart, as Popobawa, Sabosan, Adaro and Leshy already prove. ;-)
Also a question about the Salamander.
While most mythological monsters were taken straight out of mythology (or at have more things in common with their myth roots than with D&D) the Salamander however was taking straight out of D&D.
Of course its from the first bestiary so most monsters came straight from their D&D versions, but if the salamander would have used later on (like in bestiary 3 or 4) would you still use the D&D version or bring it back more to its myth roots?
Are we still going to see a Salamander (from the real myth) based creature with another name maybe?
I myself would have liked the real-myth salamander and then a salamander (D&D) based creature that is named Flamebrother or Noble/Greater Salamander.
What is the race of the Riftwarden Iconic from Paths of Prestige? Been trying to figure out where she got her hair color from. Is she an aasimar?
Who wrote the Emissary Archetype? Is the new TV Dracula closer to Bram Stokers original concept than the cheap paperback published all those years ago?
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I noticed that one of the original iconics was named after an actual place/character(s) in a book. Was this by accident or design? (I'm just curious, really. Coincidences do happen.)
Which Iconic would that be? It wasn't intentional, I don't think... We picked our names pretty deliberately.
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What do you think of what these parents do with their daughters dinosaur toys?
Be awesome. That's what they do.
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Also a question about the Salamander.
While most mythological monsters were taken straight out of mythology (or at have more things in common with their myth roots than with D&D) the Salamander however was taking straight out of D&D.
Of course its from the first bestiary so most monsters came straight from their D&D versions, but if the salamander would have used later on (like in bestiary 3 or 4) would you still use the D&D version or bring it back more to its myth roots?
Are we still going to see a Salamander (from the real myth) based creature with another name maybe?
I myself would have liked the real-myth salamander and then a salamander (D&D) based creature that is named Flamebrother or Noble/Greater Salamander.
Actually... the salamander we used is more akin to the one from 1st edition D&D than the 3rd edition one. It's been a part of the game in this way for decades, and as such we would be very unlikely to retcon it away from that, for the same reason we kept the medusa and gorgon what they are.
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What is the race of the Riftwarden Iconic from Paths of Prestige? Been trying to figure out where she got her hair color from. Is she an aasimar?
First... that's not an "Iconic." It's merely an example riftwarden, and not one we did much investment in. I didn't order the art for the book so I'm not sure what race we ordered for her. Aasimar works.
When we use the word "iconic" it is EXCLUSIVELY used to refer to a character whose appearance was designed by Wayne Reynolds and stands for a base class.
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Who wrote the Emissary Archetype? Is the new TV Dracula closer to Bram Stokers original concept than the cheap paperback published all those years ago?
I don't know about the emissary archetype. I don't even know where we published it, frankly.
And I haven't watched the new Dracula show, nor am I sure what "cheap paperback" you're referring to.
More details, in other words, are needed to answer both questions!
With the mythic game does a familiar gain anything as you gain mythic levels. In the games I play with my group familiars are a part of the group often entering into battle. If a familiar is a Extension of the spell caster wouldn't they gain some mythic ability?
Well, since a familiar has half your hitpoints, it at least gets a bonus from that.
With the mythic game does a familiar gain anything as you gain mythic levels. In the games I play with my group familiars are a part of the group often entering into battle. If a familiar is a Extension of the spell caster wouldn't they gain some mythic ability?Well, since a familiar has half your hitpoints, it at least gets a bonus from that.
Familiars don't gain bonus Hit Die, they simply have half the master's hit points.
Theoretically speaking, with the number of offers for help from Freelancers you guys collectively received for supporting Iron Gods, how many Numerian APs, with full supporting material, do you guys think you could put out, given you had ideas for each AP?
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Theoretically speaking, with the number of offers for help from Freelancers you guys collectively received for supporting Iron Gods, how many Numerian APs, with full supporting material, do you guys think you could put out, given you had ideas for each AP?
It's not really a question of freelancers. These days, we pretty much always have more freelancers available than we need for any one project. The "bottleneck" if one exists is one that's internal—we only have a limited number of editors, developers, and art directors.
Furthermore... Numeria is a unique enough area/location that I'm not sure more than one AP and support book grouping is a good idea anyway.
With the mythic game does a familiar gain anything as you gain mythic levels. In the games I play with my group familiars are a part of the group often entering into battle. If a familiar is a Extension of the spell caster wouldn't they gain some mythic ability?Well, since a familiar has half your hitpoints, it at least gets a bonus from that.
Mythic Improved Familiar is pretty sweet; it gives your familiar bonuses to its ability scores as well as damage reduction. The familiar also benefits from most of the companion-based Mythic Path abilities in the book.
Do you think it reasonable for an Android to learn how to maintain or modify Robot equipment? For instance, salvaging parts from Robots to modify their weapons or gadgets (like lasers or force fields) to work on humanoids?
Would you treat them as pseudo-magical items?
I was tossing around an idea for an Android Wizard that modified Robot technology to be powered by magic and useable by himself (or the party when they defeat them). Thought it'd throw off the party when the 'shield spell' he has isn't subject to dispel magic.
How would you react if the proposed Iconic for the Swashbuckler was a Dwarf?I don't have to ever worry about that. Turns out I have a fair amount of influence on the creative directing side of things at Paizo.
So are the chances of a male swashbuckler iconic 0% like we all now assume?
Was the main reason for you asking for a swashbuckler class to get Wayne Reynolds to paint one of your characters for you?
I noticed that one of the original iconics was named after an actual place/character(s) in a book. Was this by accident or design? (I'm just curious, really. Coincidences do happen.)Which Iconic would that be? It wasn't intentional, I don't think... We picked our names pretty deliberately.
Okay. In order to really explain, I'll have to give you some more background. My mom's parents owned a farm in Iowa, where they bred dogs and Black Angus cattle. We spent a lot of time there while I was growing up. There's a lot of stuff to do on a farm, but sometimes it rains, and back before the Internet, that meant that I mostly ended up elbows-down on the living room rug with a couple of the dogs and a book. My grandparents had been in one of those "book of the month" clubs, so they had these gorgeous editions of the classics. Mostly, it was the kind of stuff that makes you grimace when you think of "classics" - who in their right mind reads Anna Karenina, anyway, even if it is gloriously illustrated? - but some weren't. Around the World in Eighty Days. Beowulf. The Call of the Wild. Then I discovered Kipling. Say what you will about his politics, he did write a ripping good yarn, and through his words, I got to see, for example, a polo match as experienced by the polo ponies themselves. A brand-new train engine, out for its first test run. And, perhaps his best-known work (which Disney, in its infinite wisdom, managed to utterly botch not once, but twice), the collection of stories about a wolf-pack in central India who rescued and adopted a toddler after the lame tiger Shere Khan had killed his parents, and, along with Bagheera the black panther, Baloo the bear and Kaa the rock python, raised him to adulthood. In Volume I of The Jungle Books, the pack is named after the region it claimed; Kipling used two ee's at the beginning and end of the word, but the spelling has since been modernized, so it becomes the Seoni wolf-pack.
As I said, coincidences do happen, and this case, the word is also the name of an actual location, which is depicted in a Great Book (in the sense that it's "classic" literature as well as a good story), so I think it's pretty nifty. I hope you think so, too.
We've already established that a lot of our opinions and takes on the game are quite diamterically opposed, magnuskin, so should it surprise you?
Well, actually, yes it does. And I really have not seen that we are diametrically opposed at all in terms of roleplaying preferences, only that we have differences in some technical areas of the game (mostly high level play related, as far as I have seen).
Yes. The paladin is my least favorite of the base classes. Note that is NOT the same as saying I don't like the paladin or think it's poorly designed.
I don't like paladins because they're magnets for disruptive players, both the player of the paladin (who often uses the paladin's code to justify antagonsitc roleplaying choices that make the paladin not fit into the party) or the other players (who take the presence of a paladin as an invitation to make that player fall from grace and constantly try to play alignment police). I don't see this type of behavior with other lawful good characters. But I've seen it pretty much EVERY TIME I've seen a paladin played in games over the past 3 decades or so. Furthermore, paladins constrict story options more than any other class, including the assassin.
And beyond that, since my favorite type of character to play is a non-lawful character (my favorite alignment to play is chaotic good), the paladin is just kinda built to not appeal to me aesthetically.
The ONE TIME I've seen a paladin not be disruptive is Tim Nightengale's character in my current Sands of the Scorpion God campaign, but even then we've had a few sessions here and there where not much gets done because of arguments between players on how to handle tomb robbing and the like... but since Tim and the rest of the players in that group (Rob, Wes, Erik, and Jason) are such great roleplayers... the paladin has actually been working out. And Tim's done a lot of awesome work with the character to lessen my dislike of them.
But still. I have to have one...
Alright, so the dislike doesn't come from the technical side, but rather the roleplaying side. And it isn't a dislike of the Paladin code or the idea of the Paladin itself (outside of it being tied to the Lawful alignment, which is understandable... I find the alignment quite hard to play, too), but rather because of the game disruption it can and does cause, from both the side of players of the class and players whom have to deal with the class.
I can understand that. I'd personally prefer if players in general could deal more maturely with what the Paladin stands for (and I do strictly prefer good aligned games, anyway), but since people are human beings, they don't always react perfectly to difficult situations.
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Do you think it reasonable for an Android to learn how to maintain or modify Robot equipment? For instance, salvaging parts from Robots to modify their weapons or gadgets (like lasers or force fields) to work on humanoids?
Would you treat them as pseudo-magical items?
I was tossing around an idea for an Android Wizard that modified Robot technology to be powered by magic and useable by himself (or the party when they defeat them). Thought it'd throw off the party when the 'shield spell' he has isn't subject to dispel magic.
What you're talking about is cybernetics, pretty much. Cybernetics and cyborgs will be a part of Numeria and Iron Gods, and are not magical items, but beyond that, you'll have to wait and see how we handle them.
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I noticed that one of the original iconics was named after an actual place/character(s) in a book. Was this by accident or design? (I'm just curious, really. Coincidences do happen.)Which Iconic would that be? It wasn't intentional, I don't think... We picked our names pretty deliberately.Okay. In order to really explain, I'll have to give you some more background. My mom's parents owned a farm in Iowa, where they bred dogs and Black Angus cattle. We spent a lot of time there while I was growing up. There's a lot of stuff to do on a farm, but sometimes it rains, and back before the Internet, that meant that I mostly ended up elbows-down on the living room rug with a couple of the dogs and a book. My grandparents had been in one of those "book of the month" clubs, so they had these gorgeous editions of the classics. Mostly, it was the kind of stuff that makes you grimace when you think of "classics" - who in their right mind reads Anna Karenina, anyway, even if it is gloriously illustrated? - but some weren't. Around the World in Eighty Days. Beowulf. The Call of the Wild. Then I discovered Kipling. Say what you will about his politics, he did write a ripping good yarn, and through his words, I got to see, for example, a polo match as experienced by the polo ponies themselves. A brand-new train engine, out for its first test run. And, perhaps his best-known work (which Disney, in its infinite wisdom, managed to utterly botch not once, but twice), the collection of stories about a wolf-pack in central India who rescued and adopted a toddler after the lame tiger Shere Khan had killed his parents, and, along with Bagheera the black panther, Baloo the bear and Kaa the rock python, raised him to adulthood. In Volume I of The Jungle Books, the pack is named after the region it claimed; Kipling used two ee's at the beginning and end of the word, but the spelling has since been modernized, so it becomes the Seoni wolf-pack.
As I said, coincidences do happen, and this case, the word is also the name of an actual location, which is depicted in a Great Book (in the sense that it's "classic" literature as well as a good story), so I think it's pretty nifty. I hope you think so, too.
Ah; nope. Not directly, in any event. "Seoni" was the name of a friend from my elementary school, and I borrowed her name for the iconic because I've always found it to be a beautiful-sounding name that was cool and unusual enough that it sounded really "fantasy." It's certainly possible and even likely that her parents were inspired to name her from Kipling, but the iconic was not.
Ah; nope. Not directly, in any event. "Seoni" was the name of a friend from my elementary school, and I borrowed her name for the iconic because I've always found it to be a beautiful-sounding name that was cool and unusual enough that it sounded really "fantasy." It's certainly possible and even likely that her parents were inspired to name her from Kipling, but the iconic was not.stuffI noticed that one of the original iconics was named after an actual place/character(s) in a book. Was this by accident or design? (I'm just curious, really. Coincidences do happen.)Which Iconic would that be? It wasn't intentional, I don't think... We picked our names pretty deliberately.
You've got me curious, now - what were the other iconics named for? I mean, besides Val Kilmer/Valeros ;)
What you're talking about is cybernetics, pretty much. Cybernetics and cyborgs will be a part of Numeria and Iron Gods, and are not magical items, but beyond that, you'll have to wait and see how we handle them.Do you think it reasonable for an Android to learn how to maintain or modify Robot equipment? For instance, salvaging parts from Robots to modify their weapons or gadgets (like lasers or force fields) to work on humanoids?
Would you treat them as pseudo-magical items?
I was tossing around an idea for an Android Wizard that modified Robot technology to be powered by magic and useable by himself (or the party when they defeat them). Thought it'd throw off the party when the 'shield spell' he has isn't subject to dispel magic.
How well will cybernetics react with non-mechanical beings? I was looking to give my players an interesting enemy in a kind of Iron Man-esque way, while also giving them some interesting toys they get to play with once they defeat him.
Will purely organic beings be capable of taking advantage of cybernetic technology?
HI james just a few thoughts...i dont think the paladin is your least favorite class...hmmmmm pointing at the summoner..
since mythic adventures is a xmas gift (why ooh why) i was wondering can a non-classed character gain mythic tiers and mythic class...my thinking is a artifact that grants powers to a chosen few regardless of station in life..person could be a seasoned fighter or the local cryer
any thought..
thanks
Mr. James Jacobs,
I was recently reading the Succubus section of your book "Demons Revisited." I noticed that when you were referring to those who were seduced or hunted by the succubus you switched to male pronouns. Was this a conscious decision or something that just slipped through? I ask because it is atypical of your usual linguistic tendencies.
Hey, James-
If I wanted to be the best violinist in Cheliax, approximately how high would my Perform (violin) bonus have to be? Ballpark is fine.
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Creative Director
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You've got me curious, now - what were the other iconics named for? I mean, besides Val Kilmer/Valeros ;)Ah; nope. Not directly, in any event. "Seoni" was the name of a friend from my elementary school, and I borrowed her name for the iconic because I've always found it to be a beautiful-sounding name that was cool and unusual enough that it sounded really "fantasy." It's certainly possible and even likely that her parents were inspired to name her from Kipling, but the iconic was not.stuffI noticed that one of the original iconics was named after an actual place/character(s) in a book. Was this by accident or design? (I'm just curious, really. Coincidences do happen.)Which Iconic would that be? It wasn't intentional, I don't think... We picked our names pretty deliberately.
Actaully... the others don't really have nearly as interesting backstories for their names. I know I came up with Merisiel and Kyra, and Rob came up with Imrijka, and Wes came up with Seltyiel, and Sutter came up with Seelah and Alain... beyond that... I can't remember who came up with the other names off the top of my head.
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Creative Director
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What you're talking about is cybernetics, pretty much. Cybernetics and cyborgs will be a part of Numeria and Iron Gods, and are not magical items, but beyond that, you'll have to wait and see how we handle them.Do you think it reasonable for an Android to learn how to maintain or modify Robot equipment? For instance, salvaging parts from Robots to modify their weapons or gadgets (like lasers or force fields) to work on humanoids?
Would you treat them as pseudo-magical items?
I was tossing around an idea for an Android Wizard that modified Robot technology to be powered by magic and useable by himself (or the party when they defeat them). Thought it'd throw off the party when the 'shield spell' he has isn't subject to dispel magic.
How well will cybernetics react with non-mechanical beings? I was looking to give my players an interesting enemy in a kind of Iron Man-esque way, while also giving them some interesting toys they get to play with once they defeat him.
Will purely organic beings be capable of taking advantage of cybernetic technology?
The whole point of cybernetics is to interact and react with non-mechanical beings. Androids are non-mechanical. They're artificial, but not robots.
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HI james just a few thoughts...i dont think the paladin is your least favorite class...hmmmmm pointing at the summoner..
since mythic adventures is a xmas gift (why ooh why) i was wondering can a non-classed character gain mythic tiers and mythic class...my thinking is a artifact that grants powers to a chosen few regardless of station in life..person could be a seasoned fighter or the local cryer
any thought..
thanks
Actually... I like summoners better than paladins. I just don't like the way the eidolon doesn't fit well into world continuity that well... but when a player makes an eidolon that DOES fit world continuity, they're fine... they just are increasingly complex and poor choices if you have more than 4 players in your group.
And anything can become mythic.
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Creative Director
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Mr. James Jacobs,
I was recently reading the Succubus section of your book "Demons Revisited." I noticed that when you were referring to those who were seduced or hunted by the succubus you switched to male pronouns. Was this a conscious decision or something that just slipped through? I ask because it is atypical of your usual linguistic tendencies.
That was likely something that took place during editing, perhaps to make text clearer since using differently gendered pronouns can help differentiate between two characters when describing interactions.
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HI james just a few thoughts...i dont think the paladin is your least favorite class...hmmmmm pointing at the summoner..
since mythic adventures is a xmas gift (why ooh why) i was wondering can a non-classed character gain mythic tiers and mythic class...my thinking is a artifact that grants powers to a chosen few regardless of station in life..person could be a seasoned fighter or the local cryer
any thought..
thanksActually... I like summoners better than paladins. I just don't like the way the eidolon doesn't fit well into world continuity that well... but when a player makes an eidolon that DOES fit world continuity, they're fine... they just are increasingly complex and poor choices if you have more than 4 players in your group.
And anything can become mythic.
What would you say is an eidolon that DOES fit world continuity well? I'm curious and would like to try the class in an AP...
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Hey, James-
If I wanted to be the best violinist in Cheliax, approximately how high would my Perform (violin) bonus have to be? Ballpark is fine.
Well... I've not yet decided who the best violinist in Cheliax is, but Cheliax is a big enough place that it could certainly hold a "capped out" violinist.
Since the theoretical "best violinist" would be 20th level, with a +6 Charisma headband, Skill Focus, with a masterwork violin, all +5 level bonuses going into Charisma, starting with a score of 17 (assuming 15 for standard point buy for an NPC and a +2 from race since it's a human), and with a +5 inherent bonus from wishes and a circlet of persuasion and a stone of luck... we'd have
20 (ranks) +
3 (class skill) +
11 (Charisma 33) +
1 (stone of luck) +
3 (circlet of persuasion) +
2 (Masterwork instrument) +
6 (skill focus) =
+46
So, if you can hit +47, you're PROBABLY in the running.
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What would you say is an eidolon that DOES fit world continuity well? I'm curious and would like to try the class in an AP...HI james just a few thoughts...i dont think the paladin is your least favorite class...hmmmmm pointing at the summoner..
since mythic adventures is a xmas gift (why ooh why) i was wondering can a non-classed character gain mythic tiers and mythic class...my thinking is a artifact that grants powers to a chosen few regardless of station in life..person could be a seasoned fighter or the local cryer
any thought..
thanksActually... I like summoners better than paladins. I just don't like the way the eidolon doesn't fit well into world continuity that well... but when a player makes an eidolon that DOES fit world continuity, they're fine... they just are increasingly complex and poor choices if you have more than 4 players in your group.
And anything can become mythic.
1) Check out Wrath of the Righteous #3 for an example.
2) Wes Schneider made a summoner for a game I was in, and his eidolon was a "guardian angel" he beat up, chained to his will, and used as a bodyguard. The eidolon was built to resemble an angel.
It's when players build eidolons without regard to the assumptions of the setting and simply number crunch for the best stats without caring if the result doesn't really look like anything but a nonsensical chimeric monster that I'm bothered.
So Valeros wasn't named after the chain of gas stations? That's a relief!
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Actaully... the others don't really have nearly as interesting backstories for their names. I know I came up with Merisiel and Kyra, and Rob came up with Imrijka, and Wes came up with Seltyiel, and Sutter came up with Seelah and Alain... beyond that... I can't remember who came up with the other names off the top of my head.You've got me curious, now - what were the other iconics named for? I mean, besides Val Kilmer/Valeros ;)Ah; nope. Not directly, in any event. "Seoni" was the name of a friend from my elementary school, and I borrowed her name for the iconic because I've always found it to be a beautiful-sounding name that was cool and unusual enough that it sounded really "fantasy." It's certainly possible and even likely that her parents were inspired to name her from Kipling, but the iconic was not.stuffI noticed that one of the original iconics was named after an actual place/character(s) in a book. Was this by accident or design? (I'm just curious, really. Coincidences do happen.)Which Iconic would that be? It wasn't intentional, I don't think... We picked our names pretty deliberately.
"Pssst! "You can always say that the bard is named for legendary Polish Science-Fiction writer Stanislaw Lem." ;)
How would you react if the proposed Iconic for the Swashbuckler was a Dwarf?I don't have to ever worry about that. Turns out I have a fair amount of influence on the creative directing side of things at Paizo.:3 sorry couldn't resist.
Although I am hoping that the Iconic Brawler is either a Female Halfling or Gnome.
I have influence!
Actaully... the others don't really have nearly as interesting backstories for their names. I know I came up with Merisiel and Kyra, and Rob came up with Imrijka, and Wes came up with Seltyiel, and Sutter came up with Seelah and Alain... beyond that... I can't remember who came up with the other names off the top of my head.
I really hope that Imrijka's name was inspired by Clive Barker's Imajica :)
Thanks, James!
A short list but I feel these questions are too important to wait on any longer.
You: They don't get the exact same abilities in their realms as demon lords because they're not demon lords. That means they have to have SOME differences.
1. But why polymorph any object? What's so un-empyreal about that spell?
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You: The Empyreal Lords were designed by a different designer than me, who did all the other high CR creatures in the book.
(emphasis mine)
So that's why the Elohim doesn't have permanency…
2. Assuming I can't get in direct contact with this designer, what with guarding against nerd rage, how can I pass my concerns on to him/her?
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You: (regarding Cernunnos) Not every creature of the same CR has the exact same stats, and in some cases, deliberately setting up big differences helps to make them feel different.
These are demigods we're talking about here, not kaiju. The INTs of "dumb brute" demon lords (e.g., Kostchtchie, Xoveron) should be at the bottom of the spectrum, not the midpoint. Also, given the unique powers each empyreal lord has (primal aura, seed of life, class abilities) they're quite covered in regards to feeling different. Dumbing empyreal lords is not the way to go, especially given the mental stats of lesser celestials (for example, the solar has Int 23, Wis 27, Cha 25).
I know that INT only matters to CR in the case of wizards and such but this is about fluff more than crunch. I'm feeling like Paizo's simply trying to cover for a colleague, especially considering all the little mistakes in the write-ups of empyreal lords not related to INT (e.g., not being able to decide if Cernunnos should have a club or a scimitar given the feats listed…and giving him a club with a scimitar's threat range). Simply put, the least of the empyreal lords are powerful to challenge the likes of Arazni, Sorshen, or Tar-Baphon; their stats should reflect this.
3. The next time non-demon demigods get designed, would you (and Wes for empyreal lords) please take a strong hand in editing them? I'll make fan art if you do!
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4. Speaking of editing, are there any editing internships available at Paizo?
5. Moving on to something positive, when you say Arshea challenges society do you mean our society or Golarion's? If the latter then how?
@AlgaeNymph
I don't really like the assumption that the Empyreal Lords are "dumber" than the Demon Lords just because their mental stats are lower. It reminds me of the poster who was ranting about Mythic aboleths being geniuses when they only have an Intelligence score of 15. I believe it was Sean who popped in to remind everyone that Intelligence 15 *is* genius level by the standard of mortals.
I feel the same way about the Empyreal Lords. Just because their scores are lower doesn't make them mentally inferior. For example, what if the Empyreal Lords presented in Bestiary 4 are younger than the Demon Lords presented in that same book? What if the Demon Lords are more willing to use effects like wish to increase their ability scores? The Bestiaries don't break down ability score modifiers for GMs and I seem to recall a similar demand for explanation when Baba Yaga's stats were released in August. That time, I believe Adam was kind enough to give everyone Baba Yaga's breakdown, but it seems trivial to me, personally, when an Int 20 character is perfectly capable of outwitting an Int 25 character.
Once you get to Int 20, the only purpose that number truly serves is to pump up stats like bonus spells per day and saving throw DCs, because as soon as you start talking about Int 22 or higher then you're getting into the realm of, "Too great for real-world folk to comprehend." Using the, "every +1 to Int modifier is one standard deviation away from an IQ of 100" that everyone loves, you're out of the realm of real-world Intelligence when you reach the ballpark of Int 18 to Int 20.
So, if you can hit +47, you're PROBABLY in the running.
The Prodigy feat could grant another +4!
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Creative Director
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Actaully... the others don't really have nearly as interesting backstories for their names. I know I came up with Merisiel and Kyra, and Rob came up with Imrijka, and Wes came up with Seltyiel, and Sutter came up with Seelah and Alain... beyond that... I can't remember who came up with the other names off the top of my head.I really hope that Imrijka's name was inspired by Clive Barker's Imajica :)
Nope. You'd need to ask Rob, but I'm pretty sure he's not read Imagica. Which is, by the way, an awesome book.
You've most likely answered this before.
Paladins of alternate alignments like TN or CG aren't permitted because why? Inquisitors got it covered? People aren't organized enough for a nonlawful group to have paladins? I'm just curious in seeing your opinion on the matter. I remember the Green Knight paladin submitted for RPG superstar years ago. That was pretty neat.
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Creative Director
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A short list but I feel these questions are too important to wait on any longer.
You: They don't get the exact same abilities in their realms as demon lords because they're not demon lords. That means they have to have SOME differences.
1. But why polymorph any object? What's so un-empyreal about that spell?
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You: The Empyreal Lords were designed by a different designer than me, who did all the other high CR creatures in the book.
(emphasis mine)
So that's why the Elohim doesn't have permanency…
2. Assuming I can't get in direct contact with this designer, what with guarding against nerd rage, how can I pass my concerns on to him/her?
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You: (regarding Cernunnos) Not every creature of the same CR has the exact same stats, and in some cases, deliberately setting up big differences helps to make them feel different.
These are demigods we're talking about here, not kaiju. The INTs of "dumb brute" demon lords (e.g., Kostchtchie, Xoveron) should be at the bottom of the spectrum, not the midpoint. Also, given the unique powers each empyreal lord has (primal aura, seed of life, class abilities) they're quite covered in regards to feeling different. Dumbing empyreal lords is not the way to go, especially given the mental stats of lesser celestials (for example, the solar has Int 23, Wis 27, Cha 25).
I know that INT only matters to CR in the case of wizards and such but this is about fluff more than crunch. I'm feeling like Paizo's simply trying to cover for a colleague, especially considering all the little mistakes in the write-ups of empyreal lords not related to INT (e.g., not being able to decide if Cernunnos should have a club or a scimitar given the feats listed…and giving him a club with a scimitar's threat range). Simply put, the least of the empyreal lords are powerful to challenge the likes of Arazni, Sorshen, or Tar-Baphon; their stats should reflect this.
3. The next time non-demon demigods get designed, would you (and Wes for empyreal lords) please take a strong hand in editing them? I'll make fan art if you do!
--
4. Speaking of editing, are there any editing internships available at Paizo?
5. Moving on to something positive, when you say Arshea challenges society do you mean our society or Golarion's? If the latter then how?
1) I didn't design the elohim either. By "high CR monsters" I meant the ones above CR 25. And I didn't say polymorph any object is "Un-empyreal." It's just not one the designers of those monsters thought or wanted to give the thing. Again... I didn't design them, and they were kinda last minute to get their details nailed down anyway.
2) Why do you want to? The book's published and we're not gonna change it. Obviously we've made our decision regarding those things. If it's that important, I would post your concerns in the book's thread, and do so in a respectful and non-raging way. Sean Reynolds will likely be the one doing the book's errata eventually, but I don't feel like the concerns you raise are errata worthy, frankly. Especially since adjusting stats just for the sake of change can cause more problems than it solves. And the Empyreal Lords aren't intended to only be "powerful monsters to face demon lords." There's more to them than that.
3) I'll see what I can do, but I can't do everything.
4) Yes, but you have to be local to even be considered.
5) I mean real-world society.
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Creative Director
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You've most likely answered this before.
Paladins of alternate alignments like TN or CG aren't permitted because why? Inquisitors got it covered? People aren't organized enough for a nonlawful group to have paladins? I'm just curious in seeing your opinion on the matter. I remember the Green Knight paladin submitted for RPG superstar years ago. That was pretty neat.
Because what makes a paladin a paladin is the lawful good.
A wizard isn't a wizard if he doesn't cast spells, and a fighter isn't a fighter if he doesn't use weapons. Likewise, a paladin isn't a paladin if he's not lawful good.
