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I've read a couple of earlier threads that addressed the fact that the druid's bear companion starts out as a Small creature and only ever advances to Medium, whereas many other animal companions (including many creatures that are much smaller than a bear in real life, even a black bear) start at medium and eventually become large.
Folks cited all kinds of possible explanations, the most popular seeming to be that the bear companion is intended to be a black bear instead of a grizzly, and that the 1st level incarnation is a mere cub. That's all well and good, but why then don't wolves start the same? An adult wolf is a medium creature while a pup is small, yet the progression for the companion runs from medium to large, as if the creature started full grown and just got bigger from there. In the world of druidic animal companions, it seems that wolves are the much larger cousins of bears.
It further bothered me that even the advanced bear companion never gained any sort of grab ability, where the bears in the Bestiary clearly possess it. The big cat companion gets grab/pounce/rake just like its Bestiary version; the wolf companion gets trip. Why no love for the bears?
I even looked over the other animal companion entries, to see if maybe the bear's entry was a copy of another creature's and the problem was a simple mistake. No dice.
What's the deal, folks? Why does Paizo hate bears so much? Are they owned by Stephen Colbert?
Found this on google. Still no answer? Seriously the wolf should be marked dire wolf if its going to be large.
It also always bothers me that most dinosaurs (T-Rex, Triceratops, Brachiosaurus, and all those regularly huge or garganutan dinosaurs) start off medium and only at later level become large, while horses and camels are large all the time.
Hmm, interesting phenomenon. Perhaps for a companion balancing issue? How much average damage does a medium bear do vs. a large wolf?
Really makes no sense, I'd say to use the big cats progression reskinned as a bear (get pounce and rake out of the way and give it a +2 to CON).
As for creatures that starts large, it's because they suck (both camel and horse have hooves as secondary attacks), they are large because they are mainly mounts.
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Combat train them and they have three primary natural attacks. Contrast wolf: 1 bite + trip.
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Hmm, interesting phenomenon. Perhaps for a companion balancing issue? How much average damage does a medium bear do vs. a large wolf?
I thought that at first, and then looked at the Big Cat, and realized that this logic, if it was the intent, wasn't carried through.
As Crysknife suggests, just use the Big Cat stats, without pounce and rake, and you have something very much better than your Bear, and still less potent than if you'd taken a Big Cat in the first place.
If anyone points out that your 'Bear' has tiger stripes, kindly remind them that *you* are the Druid, and know more about bears, including bears-that-look-suspiciously-like-tigers, than they ever will.
If anyone points out that your 'Bear' has tiger stripes, kindly remind them that *you* are the Druid, and know more about bears, including bears-that-look-suspiciously-like-tigers, than they ever will.
LOL, well said!
I like Barry's brain.
I think I will take it with me so I can pet it and float it in a jar of brine.
balancing game mechanics trumps realism. sorry.
that's why roc animal companions never get larger than a horse(large size), even though their normal bestiary description has them being gargantuan (3 size categories larger)
It's pretty clear that the animal companion rules are working as intended ... it's not just the bears, there are too many animals FUBAR to write it off as a mistake.
One 7th level druid can have a 21 strength large cat pouncing for 5 attacks and the other can have a 12 strength antelope with a single attack ... working as intended.
Just don't run your games with the PF animal companion rules, use the 3.5 rules. Also use the animal stats from 3.5 while you're at it, they really nerfed the hell out of most of them ... except the cats, they really really like cats.
Couldn't agree more.
actually d&d has really really liked cats since first edition. nothing changed there in 30 years.
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My wolf is the same size as my Horse. My bear is the same size as my dog.
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Large cat and Wolf definitely stands apart from all the Core companions. They are more like Dire versions, whereas the others are normal animal ones (The bear is modeled after a Black Bear judging by the sizes). The power gap isn't huge, but definitely inferior with less combat options. But this also goes for almost everything other than the big two core.
*NOTE: These all are without their 5 feats picked and 2 stat bumps from leveling, which has a significant impact*
BASE Bonus:
HD:9 BAB:6 Fort/Ref: +6, Will:+3, 9 skills, 5 feats, +6 NA, Str/Dex:+3
Size: Large
AC: 16 = 10 + 3 NA + 4 Dex - 1 Size
HP: 72
Str: 24(21+3) +7
Dex: 18(15+3) +4
Con: 17 +3
Int: 2
Wis: 15 +2
Cha: 10
Fort: +9, Ref: +10, Will: +5
Attacks: +12 Clawx2 (1d6+7), +12 Bite (1d8+7)
Special Abilities: Low Light, Scent, Grab, Pounce, Rake(1d6+7)
Size: Medium
AC: 15 = 10 + 2 NA + 3 Dex + 0 Size
HP: 63
Str: 22(19+3) +6
Dex: 16(13+3) +3
Con: 15 +2
Int: 2
Wis: 12 +1
Cha: 6
Fort: +8, Ref: +9, Will: +4
Attacks: +12 Clawx2 (1d4+6), +12 Bite (1d6+6)
Special Abilities: Low Light, Scent
As an alternate, lets look at Hippo. Then imagine with Power Attack and a Breastplate. Not too shabby! *EDIT* This makes me want to make a Hippo based Cavalier...
Size: Large
AC: 24 = 10 + 14 NA + 1 Dex - 1 Size
HP: 72
Str: 22(19+3) +6
Dex: 13(10+3) +1
Con: 16 +3
Int: 2
Wis: 13 +1
Cha: 5
Fort: +9, Ref: +7, Will: +4
Attacks: +11 Bite (2d8+9)
Special Abilities: Low Light, Scent, Sweat, Trample
Or my favorite, the T-Rex! truly a beast with power attack
Size: Large
AC: 25 = 10 + 13 NA + 3 Dex - 1 Size
HP: 63
Str: 25(22+3) +7
Dex: 17(14+3) +3
Con: 14 +2
Int: 2
Wis: 15 +2
Cha: 10
Fort: +8, Ref: +9, Will: +5
Attacks: +11 Bite (2d6+14)
Special Abilities: Low Light, Scent, Grab, Powerful Bite
Sadly, most of the core are severely lacking and are not a huge factor in combat.
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Just another scarey looking potential cavalier mount(GM approval needed, of course!) Armored and spring attack, combined with rider's ride by attack.
Size: Large
AC: 28 = 10 + 17 NA + 2 Dex - 1 Size
HP: 54
Str: 21(18+3) +5
Dex: 15(12+3) +2
Con: 13 +1
Int: 2
Wis: 12 +1
Cha: 8
Fort: +7, Ref: +8, Will: +4
Attacks: +10 Tail (2d6+7 + Stun)
Special Abilities: Low Light, Scent, Stun
Stun (Ex) The ankylosaurus's tail can deliver a powerful, stunning blow. A creature struck by this attack must make a fort save or be dazed for 1 round. If the strike is a critical hit and the target fails its save, it is instead stunned for 1d4 rounds. The save DC is Strength-based.
oh my gosh, I know I'm late to the conversation here but this is ridiculous.
I just looked up a bear animal companion.
The bear is getting robbed!
the large cats get the special attacks (grab, rake, pounce) when they advance but bears do not get grab?
The wolf gets to advance from medium to large but the bears is stuck at medium???
This is not right!
looking on the boards, it seems the best answer was to just use the large cat stats and call it a bear (with maybe an adjustment to lower its dex) and add the grab ability.
They also added a Grizzly Bear companion in Ultimate Wilderness that starts Medium and becomes Large.
Stats are here (but scroll down a little, since that's the regular bear, and it's under Bear, Grizzly).