APG spells- faves

[Omegaphallic]

Divine Vessel is awesome, why worship a god when you can be one:), seriously tho, turns your oracle into an instant superhero. Add in a quickened divine power or fevernt blessing for an extra boost. Plus its not a polymorph spell so you can add fiery body and/or winds of vengence buff spells, both fave spells as well.

Plus divine vessel has cool flavour, but I'm not sure why clerics don't get it? I can see Oracle's Burden, you need the curse, but divine vessel?

[0gre]

Tim Statler wrote:

Did she name her Eidolon, Nodwick?

No, and I had to look that one up :D

[pad300]

The alchemist spell list adds 2 nice ones. Universal Formulae and Alchemical Allocation.

Universal Formula is exceedingly versatile for use in a wand or a staff (for an alchemist). Thankfully they set the wording so that it's very difficult to abuse with UMD; the wording says "any formula you know of 3rd level or lower", and only alchemists can know formulae... If your UMD user can figure a way around that, you are golden.

Alchemist's allocation is again, exceedingly versatile, very powerful and it is abusable with UMD effects. Consider that it is now possible to have potions of Stoneskin, Fire Shield, and Greater Invisibility (Summoner 3, all of them). You can now use a 2nd level slot to get a wide variety of 2nd, 3ed and 4th level effects provided you have the proper potions (which are NOT consumed, just like a focus). You don't have to pay expensive material components (more than once at least) for these spells. You can also put this thing in a wand for UMD types.

[0gre]

How exactly are you getting Universal Extract into a wand?

As far as I know Alchy's can't take craft wand and you have to be able to prepare a spell in order to put it on a wand so a wizard can't put it on a wand either.

[Russ Taylor]

Omegaphallic wrote:

Divine Vessel is awesome, why worship a god when you can be one:), seriously tho, turns your oracle into an instant superhero. Add in a quickened divine power or fevernt blessing for an extra boost. Plus its not a polymorph spell so you can add fiery body and/or winds of vengence buff spells, both fave spells as well.

Plus divine vessel has cool flavour, but I'm not sure why clerics don't get it? I can see Oracle's Burden, you need the curse, but divine vessel?

Something of a judgement call, but I see oracles as more suited to containing divine energy than clerics (who are certainly better at manipulating it). Plus I wanted there to be a handful of oracle-only spells for flavor.

[pad300]

0gre wrote:

How exactly are you getting Universal Extract into a wand?

As far as I know Alchy's can't take craft wand and you have to be able to prepare a spell in order to put it on a wand so a wizard can't put it on a wand either.

That's a pretty good question actually. I have kind of been assuming that Alchemists could in fact take the craft feats. I find it difficult to believe for example, that an alchemist can't create a philter of love (or flying ointment, or defoliant polish, etc), but your interpretation says he can't get Create Wonderous can he?

All the creation feats have a prequisite of "Caster Level X". Alchemists do not, per se, have a caster level. P27 APG "The Alchemist uses his level as the caster level to determine any effects based on caster level." Is the ability to take a feat an effect?

Given that you can co-operate to create a magic item,

"It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary."
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creati on

A wizard and an alchemist could in fact work together on such a project (and theoretically, I think could each contribute 1000 gp worth of work each per day).

However, can you put extracts/formulae in magic items? Certainly you can put them in potions - otherwise the poor Alchemist's Craft Potion feat is useless...This gives a precedent but does is not certain if you can use them with other feats. For example, craft wand says: "You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know."
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/craft-wand-item-creation---final
An extract is not a spell, but Brew Potion uses the same wording. Another question for the FAQ I guess.

[Zurai]

Alechemists can make philtres of love and other appropriate Wondrous Items by taking the Master Craftsman feat. Master Craftsman doesn't cover wands, staves, rods, or scrolls, though.

[pad300]

Zurai wrote:

Alechemists can make philtres of love and other appropriate Wondrous Items by taking the Master Craftsman feat. Master Craftsman doesn't cover wands, staves, rods, or scrolls, though.

Hadn't thought of that. Still doesn't help for weirder things like Alchemical Golems (or Flesh Golems, for those alchemists going for the Dr. Frankenstein feel...). I will say that I don't think it's a balance issue for allowing Alchemists access to the item creation feats.

Either way, it doesn't address co-operation, and the core question - can you put an extract/formulae into a item beyond a potion.

[pad300]

How long does it take for a question to get addressed in the FAQ, and where is the FAQ posted? Is it the one here:

http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8fo1/faq #tabs

[MoFiddy]

pad300 wrote:

How long does it take for a question to get addressed in the FAQ, and where is the FAQ posted? Is it the one here:

http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8fo1/faq #tabs

Yep. There is one for the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary too. It would be nice if they were consolidated into one.

Core Rulebook FAQ

Bestiary FAQ

[ntin]

My oracle is loving weapon of awe with a keen rapier.

[Oliver McShade]

Favorite spell from APG

Grove of Respite.

Now i just want to know if this can be combined with "Hallow" spell so it can last a year, or how about "Permanency".

[skrahen]

Has anyone encountered, ruled on, or considered the effects the apg had on the limited wish spell?
Limited wish=...Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition
schools.

with the addition of the summoner and inquisitor class lists there are effects that maybe weren't completely considered.

now able to duplicate:ethereal jaunt
creeping doom 7th lvl druid
invisibility, mass
plane shift
spell turning
summon monster
sequester
teleport, greater
banishment
simulacrum
dont even feel like listing the inquisitor spells. they have some good ones too.
As i read it some great new options....all are seventh level wizard effects too.limited wish got better, those spells got worse. if it wasn't for the 1500 gp cost per cast, the wizard versions of the above would be moot.
Have there been any official rulings on this yet?
i'm fairly certain it wasnt taken into consideration when planning out the spell leveling for the new base classes.

[hogarth]

skrahen wrote:

Has anyone encountered, ruled on, or considered the effects the apg had on the limited wish spell?

[..]
i'm fairly certain it wasnt taken into consideration when planning out the spell leveling for the new base classes.

In the context of Limited Wish, maybe not. But there was a fair amount of discussion with regards to why having spells at lower levels is or isn't a good idea (with regards to cheaper magic items, for instance).

[Ravingdork]

skrahen wrote:

Has anyone encountered, ruled on, or considered the effects the apg had on the limited wish spell?

Limited wish=...Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition
schools.

with the addition of the summoner and inquisitor class lists there are effects that maybe weren't completely considered.

now able to duplicate:ethereal jaunt
creeping doom 7th lvl druid
invisibility, mass
plane shift
spell turning
summon monster
sequester
teleport, greater
banishment
simulacrum
dont even feel like listing the inquisitor spells. they have some good ones too.
As i read it some great new options....all are seventh level wizard effects too.limited wish got better, those spells got worse. if it wasn't for the 1500 gp cost per cast, the wizard versions of the above would be moot.
Have there been any official rulings on this yet?
i'm fairly certain it wasnt taken into consideration when planning out the spell leveling for the new base classes.

Whoah. Aren't some of those spells 7th-level wizard spells?

[pad300]

Ravingdork wrote:

Whoah. Aren't some of those spells 7th-level wizard spells?

Yep,

Hey more things that they just didn't think about: PRC's
http://nethys.karuikage.net/classesPrestige.htm#daivrat

Quote:

Spell-Fetch (Su): Once per day, while preparing spells (or spell slots, for spontaneous casters), a daivrat can conjure a minor genie to find an unusual spell for him. The daivrat chooses one spell he does not know, such as a spell from a prohibited school or from another class’s spell list, and sends the genie to fetch magical energy matching that spell. The genie returns after 10 minutes and presents the daivrat with the matching spell energy.

If the daivrat casts spells like a wizard, for the next 24 hours he can prepare the fetched spell as if it were in his spellbook. If he casts spells like a sorcerer, for the next 24 hours he may cast the fetched spell as if he knew it.

At 2nd level, the genie can retrieve any spell of 3rd level or lower. At 5th level, the genie can retrieve any spell of 6th level or lower. At 8th level, the genie can retrieve any spell of 8th level or lower. The genie is incorporeal and has no other powers or abilities (it cannot be used to scout, send messages, and so on) and vanishes once it delivers the spell.

Preparing or casting the fetched spell is more difficult than using spells the daivrat actually knows. If the fetched spell is on the daivrat’s spellcasting class’s spell list, it is treated as 1 spell level higher than normal; otherwise it is treated as 2 spell levels higher than normal.

Sure, I would love to be able to cast summon monster 9 from a 7th level spell slot (6th level spell from the summoner list, another class). How about Dominate Monster?

Or howzabout this one?
http://nethys.karuikage.net/classesPrestige.htm#pathfinder-savant

Quote:

Esoteric Magic (Ex): At each class level beyond 1st, the Pathfinder savant chooses a spell from any class’s spell list and thereafter treats it as if it were on the spell list of his base spellcasting classes; if his base class could not normally cast that spell, it is treated as 1 level higher. The spell’s type (arcane or divine) and save DCs function as normal for his base spellcasting class. All other restrictions of his normal spellcasting class apply. This ability does not allow other spellcasters to prepare, cast, or use spell trigger or spell completion items of esoteric spells (such as a sorcerer using a cure light wounds scroll).

Same kind of deal. But now you can get summon monster 9 with a 6th level slot!

Yep, this needs FAQ'ing

[FiddlersGreen]

pad300 wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Whoah. Aren't some of those spells 7th-level wizard spells?

Yep,

Hey more things that they just didn't think about: PRC's
http://nethys.karuikage.net/classesPrestige.htm#daivrat

Quote:

Spell-Fetch (Su): Once per day, while preparing spells (or spell slots, for spontaneous casters), a daivrat can conjure a minor genie to find an unusual spell for him. The daivrat chooses one spell he does not know, such as a spell from a prohibited school or from another class’s spell list, and sends the genie to fetch magical energy matching that spell. The genie returns after 10 minutes and presents the daivrat with the matching spell energy.

If the daivrat casts spells like a wizard, for the next 24 hours he can prepare the fetched spell as if it were in his spellbook. If he casts spells like a sorcerer, for the next 24 hours he may cast the fetched spell as if he knew it.

At 2nd level, the genie can retrieve any spell of 3rd level or lower. At 5th level, the genie can retrieve any spell of 6th level or lower. At 8th level, the genie can retrieve any spell of 8th level or lower. The genie is incorporeal and has no other powers or abilities (it cannot be used to scout, send messages, and so on) and vanishes once it delivers the spell.

Preparing or casting the fetched spell is more difficult than using spells the daivrat actually knows. If the fetched spell is on the daivrat’s spellcasting class’s spell list, it is treated as 1 spell level higher than normal; otherwise it is treated as 2 spell levels higher than normal.

Sure, I would love to be able to cast summon monster 9 from a 7th level spell slot (6th level spell from the summoner list, another class). How about Dominate Monster?

Or howzabout this one?
http://nethys.karuikage.net/classesPrestige.htm#pathfinder-savant

Quote:

Esoteric Magic (Ex): At each class level beyond 1st, the Pathfinder savant chooses a spell from any class’s spell list and thereafter treats it as if it were on the spell list

...

Yes, but considering you're paying 1500 gp a pop, I'd say it's not game-breaking or worth tearing down the halls screaming over.

[pad300]

FiddlersGreen wrote:

Yes, but considering you're paying 1500 gp a pop, I'd say it's not game-breaking or worth tearing down the halls screaming over.

You're only paying 1500 gp a pop using limited wish. Neither of the PRC's has cost (beyond taking the PRC levels in the 1st place...).

[Aegarn Tidebourne]

pad300 wrote:

0gre wrote:

An all day incorporeal form you can cast spells from is a bit much for a 4th level spell. Seems more like a 7th or 8th level spell. Taking shadow form without casting, that seems about right as a fourth level spell.

It's much more broken than that... It's an all day incorporeal form that you can't DIE in... As well as cast spells. There's good reason I labelled it broken.

I don't think Shadows can speak, they don't even have a "Languages" entry in the Bestiary. So verbal component spells would be out at the very least.

That's just a guess though. It is definitely in need of some clarification. As 0gre says though, it is too much for a 4th level spell otherwise.

[Indo]

Lead Blades