ST as a heavy roleplay game for only 2 players?


Savage Tide Adventure Path


So I'm thinking of running it as a HEAVY on roleplay, low combat focused ap with only 2 players. I know this means taking a chainsaw to alot of stuff and definately dialing back the difficulty of encounters. My question is if anyone has already done it and what the best approach would be to get the majority of the important stuff still in and keep it doable by 2 non power gamers?


I haven't done it, but I can give a few suggestions, having gone through the AP with a fine-toothed comb up to Chapter 7 or so (for the opposite reason, amping things up for an overpowered Gestalt group).

First and foremost, you're going to want to encourage your players to take things slowly. The combat encounters can get pretty nasty, even trimmed down, with only two players. If they invest a lot in Perception and Investigation type abilities, they can nix a lot of their problems by getting information and making preparations in advance.

Okay, now suggestions.

For "There Is No Honor", the first mission is where a lot of full parties die; dealing with the Rhagodessa will very easily bring a 2-person game to an end. You might consider replacing it with an equally-exotic but less-lethal critter, or removing that part of the event completely. I'd also trim down the smuggling crew's numbers.

Have the Iron Cobra in the Vanderboren Vault be less aggressive. It won't let anyone go near, and will attack anyone who repeatedly attempts (or attacks it) but if the players back off from it revealing its presence have it take a defensive posture and try to usher them out of the vault rather than try to kill them. Possibly reduce its HP or DR to make it an easier battle if you like, too.

For Parrot Island, chop the zombies' numbers down some, and remove their "feeding" save. That way if one of the two goes down to negatives, it's not an auto-death rolling on the ensuing will save. Either remove the huecuva, make him willing to parley, or don't have any zombies along with him when he does attack.

The thief attacks and the Lotus Guildhall are the next places most people die. I would seriously reduce the amounts in which the thieves will be encountered, and remove or tone down most of the "death trap" encounters - like the crocodile in the Crucible or the thieves disguised as combat dummies - to suit the party better. Have Rowyn more willing to talk and/or less willing to fight; possibly have her cut and run at the first sign of negotiations going sour, leaving Gut Tugger to take care of the interfering adventurers while she makes her escape.

Hope that helps :) Will come back with stuff for later chapters later.


You could elaborate on the political themes in Sasserine. Perhaps one of the other families (the Islaran family comes to mind) wants to have the PCs spy on the Kellani family. Perhaps you could give the PCs the opportunity to prevent the Heldrath Kellani murder and get involved with the Lotus Dragons in that way. Then their missions could be more like spying with the Lotus Dragons instead of attacking them, in order to gather evidence of their criminal activities, which can subsequently be used by the Islaran family.


Luna eladrin wrote:
You could elaborate on the political themes in Sasserine. Perhaps one of the other families (the Islaran family comes to mind) wants to have the PCs spy on the Kellani family. Perhaps you could give the PCs the opportunity to prevent the Heldrath Kellani murder and get involved with the Lotus Dragons in that way. Then their missions could be more like spying with the Lotus Dragons instead of attacking them, in order to gather evidence of their criminal activities, which can subsequently be used by the Islaran family.

Definitely second that idea. Heck I wish I did that for my group.

Definetly take take a hack saw to some encounters, remove as many "random" encounters as possible because if there is no RP value in a fight then it really shouldn't be there for you. Things like the Savage Monkeys attacking them before the cove, and much of the Floatsum and Hydra attacks on the boat can just be left out.

Also look into real ship combot for Chapter three, fending off raiding pirates with only two people, probably not that great. Blasting pirate ships from a distance as you're two players work where to maneuver their ship. Great idea.
Also ensure you involve the Sea Wyrven's crew mates sooner.


Zombie Boots wrote:

Definitely take take a hack saw to some encounters, remove as many "random" encounters as possible because if there is no RP value in a fight then it really shouldn't be there for you. Things like the Savage Monkeys attacking them before the cove, and much of the Floatsum and Hydra attacks on the boat can just be left out.

Pulling extraneous "random" encounters is a good idea, but I disagree with removing the Savage Monkey encounter. They are not much of a threat but provide a valuable bit of foreshadowing for the upcoming and significantly more dangerous encounters with the Savage pirates.

Most of the AP modules have a "Scaling the Adventure" section, providing recommendations on how to reduce or increase the power level of encounters in that book. Seek out that section and start with those reductions.

Also, consider adding a DM run PC or hirelings of which your players can make use. This can provide some more RP opportunity. Find out if any of them are interested in the Leadership feat. In SWW there are a number of lower level NPCs and PC replacements with very brief outlines that you can move back into earlier episodes and NPC's to be recruited/hired by the PC's.

There are two other big issues to contend with. XP and treasure. For the XP, a really good way to handle it in this situation is to just award them xp based on completing chapter milestones, rather than keeping track of xp directly.
Treasure is the second Big Issue. Much of the loot, particularly in the early going, is made up of armor, weapons and coin taken off of opponents, which they will not be getting as much of due to reduced numbers of encounters. Some of that will balance out, but you should monitor their wealth a lot more closely. I had to go back thru all the loot up to the shrine of Zotzilaha to determine that my 6 players were where they should be wealth-wise. I would recommend maintaining a spreadsheet of loot awards as you play to save you that hassle later on.


Firstly, Thanks for the suggestions. I appreciate any thoughts on how to do this as it's a bit more ambitious than my usual tasks in the opposite way. Overall I already plan to cut alot of the encounters that I didn't like or feel made sense anyway. Also the pcs will have hirelings as part of their background aswell as some other tricks to get them through such as action points and the like. Now to implement some these suggestions :P


Hired Sword wrote:
Zombie Boots wrote:

Definitely take take a hack saw to some encounters, remove as many "random" encounters as possible because if there is no RP value in a fight then it really shouldn't be there for you. Things like the Savage Monkeys attacking them before the cove, and much of the Floatsum and Hydra attacks on the boat can just be left out.

Pulling extraneous "random" encounters is a good idea, but I disagree with removing the Savage Monkey encounter. They are not much of a threat but provide a valuable bit of foreshadowing for the upcoming and significantly more dangerous encounters with the Savage pirates.

Seconded. That one's just too much of a scene-setter to remove. The "what the FRACK happened here" reactions I got from my players after attacking them with tentacled monkeys and hook-clawed parrots literally MADE that first half of Chapter 2 - the fights with the mutated pirates were just gravy.


Some more suggestions for The Bullywug Gambit!

Play up the Wormfall Festival, big time. I failed to do this in my campaign, it ended up just getting a passing reference and my players didn't seem like following it up, and when the time came for the actual engagement in the events of the Festival it got mostly ignored, and felt kind of lacking. Your players, however, will probably enjoy it much more and will possibly want a chance to get more involved.

For Kraken's Cove, play up the freakiness of the mutants. That's a general rule for ANYONE running STAP - Kraken's Cove is the party's first taste of the Savage Tide and it should really stick. I would reduce the numbers of active mutant pirates, but I would keep the particularly cinematic encounters - the cook, the Phanaton, Brissa, and Ripclaw - fairly intact. I would drop excess hints as to what's happened - perhaps make the shattered pearl easier to find (my players didn't even think to search the water for treasure) for example.

I would NOT change the encounter with Harliss at all - her decimating the last few remaining mutants is supposed to be a dramatic combat event where she shows off just how much better than the party she is. However, I would make her more willing to talk, if the players say the right things, and make it easier for them to dissuade Drevoraz later.

For the return to the Festival, I would remove the stiltwalker/Diamondback combat entirely, and replace it with a few skill-based challenges. Alternatively, have the assassins around, but if the players play their cards right they can avoid the combat entirely (instead of getting jumped inevitably like it's written).

The Bullywugs in the manor is the hardest part of this chapter to convert for this kind of play, I'd think. The best solution I can come up with is to reduce the frogmen's morale and loyalty, making them more likely to barter, parley, or flee, with the exceptions of the leaders (the Chief, the Huntress, and the Shaman at the end). OR!!! You could change the way the Jade Ravens are involved - instead of them being incapacitated and captured along with Lavinia, possibly try having them just returning from Cauldron and having to make their way through the crowded festival to the manor, and have them fight their way along at the party's side to rescue their mutual employer. That could quickly get to be a handful to the DM though, unless you're comfortable with handing out extra character sheets to your players for a session and your players are happy to accept the extra work.

That's all for now, be back later :)


I like the Jade Raven's idea. My group just kept the animosity from the beginning all the way thru.

Might even make for a more interesting triangle if there is any romance RP with Lavinia or Liamae or some other characters.


At this point for the first adventure I'm thinking of changing the burning boat scenerio to one where the thugs are fighting the rhadoggessa and that the party can capotilize on the situation and basically pick off the winner. I like the idea concerning parrot island, I definately will make them standard mindless zombies, and will spread them out more, like have one or two locked in the bedchambers, and a few floating in the water instead of the crabs, and maybe lair the hecuva in the shrine and only have him encountered if disturbed. The iron cobra idea I like, although I'm contemplating completely dropping the encounter and making Lavinia less uninformed about the vault, only staying away due to lack of a "key". The fights with the pirates I agree on cutting down, especially the dummy room, the alligator pit, and the trio of rhadoggessa's/xixtchils. I plan on cutting most of that anyway, as it makes no sense for a theives guild that is supposedly taking over for all of them to be there always. Also I'm introducing a few rival guilds the pcs can gang up with for a pretty cool showdown I think. From there I plan on cutting alot of savage encounters but make them more creepy, and really heavily focus on the event. I think Drevoraz will be encouragable, especially if the pcs prove resiliant and tough, and he may swicth sides. As for the jade ravens I think a few of them may have been inside when the assault occured and need rescuing, but a couple may have been enjoying the festival and may be encountered there to add some beef. Depending on the amount of cohorts the pcs have, and the number of jade ravens will determine how many frogs stay in the house. I was heavily considering just moving the chief and the huntress to one location and then scatter some normal frogs about, and only the shaman and his guardas and the orc in the bedroom... I'll have to look at the encounter.


Quote:
The iron cobra idea I like, although I'm contemplating completely dropping the encounter and making Lavinia less uninformed about the vault, only staying away due to lack of a "key".

Do leave in the puzzle, that one's fun to watch the players try and figure out (unless they just try to Disable Device it, then it kinda gets boring, heh; none of my players were good enough though).


You could adapt the bullywug situation in The bullywug's gambit in a hostage situation in which the PCs have to negotiate for Lavinia's freedom. When they have managed to make contact with Harliss, they could for example try to contact Drevoraz. The lower-level bulllywugs can be easily intimidated (my group actually did that). That leaves the leader types to deal with.


I am doing something very similar with only two characters (currently at Zotzilaha). My solution was to bump the characters up to 1.5 times the suggested character level (with the limitation that the extra 0.5 levels do not stack with the main class: I have a Beguiler/Rogue and a Artificer/Fighter). The higher skill points, hit points, saving throws and base attack bonus help limit the penalty for bad luck and fewer targets. More importantly, they have to play smart and have back-up plans in case something goes wrong. Slow investigation helps you prepare. The only serious near death experience was the flotsam ooze in the middle of the night. Running away is also highly recommended as we had to do in Orlangru's place.


Orthos wrote:
Quote:
The iron cobra idea I like, although I'm contemplating completely dropping the encounter and making Lavinia less uninformed about the vault, only staying away due to lack of a "key".
Do leave in the puzzle, that one's fun to watch the players try and figure out (unless they just try to Disable Device it, then it kinda gets boring, heh; none of my players were good enough though).

Well the catch is one of the players played the first 2 or 3 chapters of St and has done the general idea of it so it's no big on that stuff if things get trimmed. I will probably change the puzzle though I've got others to tinker with....


Stewart Perkins wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Quote:
The iron cobra idea I like, although I'm contemplating completely dropping the encounter and making Lavinia less uninformed about the vault, only staying away due to lack of a "key".
Do leave in the puzzle, that one's fun to watch the players try and figure out (unless they just try to Disable Device it, then it kinda gets boring, heh; none of my players were good enough though).
Well the catch is one of the players played the first 2 or 3 chapters of St and has done the general idea of it so it's no big on that stuff if things get trimmed. I will probably change the puzzle though I've got others to tinker with....

Ah that's true, new puzzle would probably be necessary in that case.


For a good chunk of my campaign, I was running it with only two players. They use PF classes, and I've gone through it and ramped up all of the encounters...they've done well against anything that wasn't a giant crab.

In short, if you want to take ST the heavy RP route, that's great, but you don't need to cut back on encounters just because you have two players. Even if they do need help, there are so many NPCs that can aid them from time to time in combat it isn't funny.

Lavinia
Jade Ravens
Amella
Avner
Lirith
Skald
Catherly
Farshore militia
Olman warriors
Harliss Jarvel
Jakara

And plenty more.


No, I'm not cutting encounters just to cut them. I'm just going with less combat more story approach and as such, just don't need as many encounters as 2 pcs will get plenty of xp and be on track overall to progress with fewer encounters than 4 or 5 pcs. Also I just generally want to remove some of them, and it works well to do so. :)


Have you considered not cutting the encounters entirely, but merely running them as cinematic victories for your players? Possibly using a level check vs the CRs to determine the level of success?

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