Witch for PFS how to improve


Advice

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Usually I am not playing female PCs, but the witch looks really interesting, and I cannot see this as a male PC. So, besides this, my idea was to make one, who is highly intelligent to keep the DCs as high as possible for spells. But I have trouple on the patron and for feats, so, please help, I searched through the posts and put advice I found in:
Human, racial trait: Heart of the Wilderness (More then enough skill points), favored class: witch
STR: 8
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 20
WIS: 8
CHA: 10
Feats: 1st: Toughness, Extra hex
3rd: Improved initiative
5th: Combat casting
7th: Improved familiar (Mephit: either dust, ooze, salt, all look good)
9th: Spell focus - but which school? Enchantment: for charm monster, confusion, dominate person; Illusion: for phantasmal killer, evocation: for all the damage spells, necromancy: for magic jar and suffocation
11th: Spell penetration

for feats, is improved initiative worth it, or more going to improve the DCs of one school with spell focus feats? Same question for combat casting.

Hexes: 1st: Evil eye, slumber
2nd: Cackle
4th: misfortune
6th: Fortune
8th: Flight
10th: Agony (comined with evil eye, misfortune and cackle)
12th: Waxen image

Patron - some spring up: agility (For haste and freedom of movement), deception (for blink and invisibility), elements (for flaming sphere and fireball), endurance (for protection from energy), shadow (for the shadow spells), wisdom (for globe of invulnerability)

Weapons: longspear - for reach, sickle
sling for start, then cross-bow?
just found the stinkchuck, this is a nice one to carry, esp. for a witch
hope is to not really need to use them

Traits: reactionary and ?, something to improve saves? Birthmark, carefully hidden, latent psion spring up

Skills: dips:
all knowledge skills the witch gets a class skill at least one point, heal, intimidate
point into: craft (alchemy) earn a bit of money after each scenario, minimum 5gp
max out: fly, spellcraft, UMD

Familiar: Fox, rat or weasel - for the saves


PeteZero wrote:

Usually I am not playing female PCs, but the witch looks really interesting, and I cannot see this as a male PC. So, besides this, my idea was to make one, who is highly intelligent to keep the DCs as high as possible for spells. But I have trouple on the patron and for feats, so, please help, I searched through the posts and put advice I found in:

Human, racial trait: Heart of the Wilderness (More then enough skill points), favored class: witch
STR: 8
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 20
WIS: 8
CHA: 10
Feats: 1st: Toughness, Extra hex
3rd: Improved initiative
5th: Combat casting
7th: Improved familiar (Mephit: either dust, ooze, salt, all look good)
9th: Spell focus - but which school? Enchantment: for charm monster, confusion, dominate person; Illusion: for phantasmal killer, evocation: for all the damage spells, necromancy: for magic jar and suffocation
11th: Spell penetration

for feats, is improved initiative worth it, or more going to improve the DCs of one school with spell focus feats? Same question for combat casting.

Hexes: 1st: Evil eye, slumber
2nd: Cackle
4th: misfortune
6th: Fortune
8th: Flight
10th: Agony (comined with evil eye, misfortune and cackle)
12th: Waxen image

Patron - some spring up: agility (For haste and freedom of movement), deception (for blink and invisibility), elements (for flaming sphere and fireball), endurance (for protection from energy), shadow (for the shadow spells), wisdom (for globe of invulnerability)

Weapons: longspear - for reach, sickle
sling for start, then cross-bow?
just found the stinkchuck, this is a nice one to carry, esp. for a witch
hope is to not really need to use them

Traits: reactionary and ?, something to improve saves? Birthmark, carefully hidden, latent psion spring up

Skills: dips:
all knowledge skills the witch gets a class skill at least one point, heal, intimidate
point into: craft (alchemy) earn a bit of money after each scenario, minimum 5gp
max out: fly, spellcraft, UMD

Familiar: Fox, rat or weasel - for the...

Your attribute distribution is pretty good. Witches really need to max out Int and leave a little for Con and Dex.

I don't agree with your feats. In my humble opinion, the hexes are so good (much more powerful than feats), you'd want to spend nearly all your feats on selecting Extra Hex. It's not that your feat selection is bad (they are pretty decent). It's just that hexes are amazing so get as many as you can. One other feat that might be worthwhile is Scribe Scroll. That way, you can have a stored backup of your spells and not worry about running out. Get a ring of sustenance (cheap magic item) in conjunction with this feat and you will have time every rest period to scribe a spare spell you have not used.

Human is a great choice - extra feat equals extra hex for the win.

Your skill selection is ok. If you decide to pick up the disguise hex for extra versatility and roleplay opportunities then don't forget to get the Disguise skill as well.

Weapons don't matter much - you are on par with a wizard for combat and want to stay away from melee as much as possible. For this reason a good patron choice is one that offers Invisibility or Mirror Image to keep out of trouble.

Choice of familiar is not so important as long as you keep it away from combat and trouble (maybe something that flies or can hide in your clothes) - it's your lifeline to spells so keep it safe. Not sure there's really a need for an Improved Familiar. Extra hexes are far more important.

Hope this helps.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Just a note about feats, you can take extra hex more than once. Something to keep in mind. Not much help on the patrons as I like all of them about equally for different reasons.

Though I would be a bit concerned about the Wis score personally. I think I would give up a point of int to get the wis up.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
PeteZero wrote:
Usually I am not playing female PCs, but the witch looks really interesting, and I cannot see this as a male PC.

You can always call yourself a Witchalok. :p

Shadow Lodge

PeteZero wrote:
Usually I am not playing female PCs, but the witch looks really interesting, and I cannot see this as a male PC.

I saw two very well done male witch PCs at Gen Con this year. One was an elf who often spoke in rhymes and riddles, and another was a "swamp man" who wore a burlap sack. Male witches may not be as obvious as the female kind, but there are options if you'd really like to make a male character.

I generally like your attributes, but the 8 wisdom and 10 charisma make me a little uncomfortable (especially since you plan on taking at least one social skill). I think your hex selection is excellent (misfortune is the bane of my existence as a PFS GM, it's so much harder to kill you guys) and evil eye is absolutely one of my favorites. I don't think you need to worry about an improved familiar, but that's just me. It's unfortunate that familiars are hand-waved so readily by most society GMs, but it's a fact of life. Taking something like a mephit is a lot beefier, but also draws attention to your familiar.

As far as your patron goes, I'm a bigger fan of defensive abilities whenever possible and would avoid elements (unless you really feel you don't have enough direct damage abilities).


I'm not a big fan of toughness; I'd rather take another Extra Hex feat and bump all my hexes up by one level. YMMV, of course.

Shadow Lodge

hogarth wrote:
I'm not a big fan of toughness; I'd rather take another Extra Hex feat and bump all my hexes up by one level. YMMV, of course.

He is taking Extra Hex already. Are you suggesting he take the feat twice at level one?


MisterSlanky wrote:
hogarth wrote:
I'm not a big fan of toughness; I'd rather take another Extra Hex feat and bump all my hexes up by one level. YMMV, of course.
He is taking Extra Hex already. Are you suggesting he take the feat twice at level one?

Yup.

Shadow Lodge

hogarth wrote:
MisterSlanky wrote:
He is taking Extra Hex already. Are you suggesting he take the feat twice at level one?
Yup.

I guess at that point I'd move up Spell Focus (Enchantment) to boost the saves on his spells. It's a feat he's already intending to take, and the millage at low levels is superb (especially with the high saves he already has).


Thanks for all the great input, so for feats somethig like:
Feats: 1st: Extra hex, Extra hex
3rd: Spell focus enchantment
5th: Toughness
7th: Greater spell focus enchantment
9th: Improved initiative
11th: Spell penetration
Or would I better get combat casting?
That also gives another hex - would ward be good?

For patron: agility, deception or trickery seem good, if defensive is a better choice.


Yeah, I'd probably go with Ward or (maybe) Healing.

Liberty's Edge

Depending on how you want to run her you might think about getting ability focus Hex (Whatever offensive hex you plan to use a lot here)


The meanest one is probably misfortune, if you cannot negate it, it can screw things up. Might put that as 3rd level feat and get rid of toughness or improved initiative.

Shadow Lodge

PeteZero wrote:

The meanest one is probably misfortune, if you cannot negate it, it can screw things up. Might put that as 3rd level feat and get rid of toughness or improved initiative.

I would not get rid of improved initiative. Your hexes are nasty if you can get the drop on your enemy. Improved initiative is vital for that.

Grand Lodge

PeteZero wrote:

Thanks for all the great input, so for feats somethig like:

Feats: 1st: Extra hex, Extra hex
3rd: Spell focus enchantment
5th: Toughness
7th: Greater spell focus enchantment
9th: Improved initiative
11th: Spell penetration
Or would I better get combat casting?
That also gives another hex - would ward be good?

For patron: agility, deception or trickery seem good, if defensive is a better choice.

If you don't take toughness at 1st level, I wouldn't take it all.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
sieylianna wrote:
PeteZero wrote:

Thanks for all the great input, so for feats somethig like:

Feats: 1st: Extra hex, Extra hex
3rd: Spell focus enchantment
5th: Toughness
7th: Greater spell focus enchantment
9th: Improved initiative
11th: Spell penetration
Or would I better get combat casting?
That also gives another hex - would ward be good?

For patron: agility, deception or trickery seem good, if defensive is a better choice.

If you don't take toughness at 1st level, I wouldn't take it all.

I agree with this, either take toughness at level 1 or totally skip it. If you want toughness i would swap it and one of the extra hex feats at level 1.


sieylianna wrote:
If you don't take toughness at 1st level, I wouldn't take it all.

I just wouldn't bother with it. I think my wizard has been knocked out maybe twice in 14 adventures so far.


Extra hex X 2 at level 1 for this build

any reason no one is seriously taking/talking (about) the healing hex?

I built an NPC human witch and three hexes at level 1 is pretty good!

Healing hex will let you CLW for as many people as are in your party on a daily basis and you don't use a spell slot!....

For my peeace of mind if you selected 3 hexes at level 1 what would they be?

Dark Archive

I've never understood the whole "All Witches are evil" mindset. I've had some fun and interesting debates with my grandmother over the subject, because she watched "Bewitched" a lot when she was younger and that show specifically stated that Male Witches were called Warlocks. Of course, that's non-sense. Anyone who practices Witchcraft is a witch, whether they are male or female. Anyway.....

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post.


Ok so my opinion:

The hexes aren't that great.

yeah yeah slumber and evil eye... maybe ward and fortune. The rest I could dump.

MY Advice:

Take Ill Omen as a first level spell. Same basic effect as Misfortune, and the fact you can't use it all day is made up for by the fact there isn't a save.

Agony is nice... but you can get the same effect (only bigger) out of a stinking cloud, without giving them a new save each round.

I would wait until Eighth level and then ditch the base class. Four levels in pathfinder savant will score you some nice defensive spells that you will want (resist energy for example, or lesser/regular restoration... maybe invisibility or greater invisibility if that's your cup of tea). Since you are light on spells per day (compared to other full casters) this also means scrolls are your best friends. The Cypher mage feat to increase that caster level by another 1 and many good spells can be had without eating up your slots.

Cackle is nice... but you are going to HAVE to have a means of moving otherwise you are begging to die. As such I recommend Phantasmal Steed since it acts as a mount, which allows it to move for you while you still get a full round of actions.

The possibility of arcane blast to give you a fall back option for damage wouldn't be bad, and minor spell (whatever it is) could allow you to use Ill Omen twice a day without having to actually cast it. I don't mind the improved familiar, though if available (and I don't remember if it is or not) I recommend the fairie dragon since it too is a caster followed very closely by the psuedo dragon, which has blindsense and telepathy (a very useful combination of abilities).

Shadow Lodge

Abraham spalding wrote:

Ok so my opinion:

The hexes aren't that great.

yeah yeah slumber and evil eye... maybe ward and fortune. The rest I could dump.

I watched Evil Eye and Misfortune in action during Gen Con (who didn't have those two hexes?) on three Witches. All I can say is that they're game-changers. I absolutely hated the witch concept and felt that their hexes were weak alternatives, yet in each instance they saved lives and made the Witch a vital team member. Cackle was only gravy.


MisterSlanky wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:

Ok so my opinion:

The hexes aren't that great.

yeah yeah slumber and evil eye... maybe ward and fortune. The rest I could dump.

I watched Evil Eye and Misfortune in action during Gen Con (who didn't have those two hexes?) on three Witches. All I can say is that they're game-changers. I absolutely hated the witch concept and felt that their hexes were weak alternatives, yet in each instance they saved lives and made the Witch a vital team member. Cackle was only gravy.

Evil eye is indeed my favorite and I do love it. But as I mentioned Misfortune can easily be replaced with Ill Omen (especially since Ill Omen has longer range and duration). Now I'm not saying misfortune is bad -- just that for a save or nothing effect I would rather have something else when I have a no save spell that basically gives me the exact same effect.

Now the power of misfortune is great -- I won't say otherwise... but a spell that does the same thing easier and at greater range with no save would be where I sit my money generally.

However if you are sticking with witch all the way (again I wouldn't go past level 8 currently with the hexes available) I would take misfortune.

We should remember though that witch levels only increase the save for these Hexes -- after all with the extra hex discovery there isn't much need to stay in witch since you can keep getting the goodies (if you want them) while getting better benefits from the prestige classes (and I would argue that the pathfinder savant offers more than staying in witch does, especially in PFS... Lore master would also be a good choice).


Abraham spalding wrote:
Evil eye is indeed my favorite and I do love it. But as I mentioned Misfortune can easily be replaced with Ill Omen (especially since Ill Omen has longer range and duration).

Wha? Ill Omen lasts for (1 + lvl/5) rolls (a maximum of 3 rolls in PFS play). Misfortune lasts for every single roll the target makes, as long as the witch keeps it going with Cackle.


KenderKin wrote:

Extra hex X 2 at level 1 for this build

any reason no one is seriously taking/talking (about) the healing hex?

I built an NPC human witch and three hexes at level 1 is pretty good!

Healing hex will let you CLW for as many people as are in your party on a daily basis and you don't use a spell slot!....

For my peeace of mind if you selected 3 hexes at level 1 what would they be?

I agree with you about the healing hex. At 5th level it becomes a Cure Moderate Wounds. In a party of 4 to 6 would mean 4 to 6 CMW's per day plus extra heals for every familiar/animal companion in the party and every friendly NPC encountered without using up any spell slots.


c873788 wrote:
I agree with you about the healing hex. At 5th level it becomes a Cure Moderate Wounds. In a party of 4 to 6 would mean 4 to 6 CMW's per day plus extra heals for every familiar/animal companion in the party and every friendly NPC encountered without using up any spell slots.

One thing to note about Pathfinder Society organized play -- the modules often have a lot of "free" healing in them, particularly in the form of healing potions and sometimes wands. So having a source of healing is not always as important a concern as in some campaigns.


Abraham spalding wrote:

Ok so my opinion:

The hexes aren't that great.

yeah yeah slumber and evil eye... maybe ward and fortune. The rest I could dump.

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of hexes. You already agree about slumber and evil eye so let's have a look at some of the others:

Flight: by 5th level you have Feather Fall at will; +4 on swim checks; levitate once per day; AND flight 5 times per day at a minute per use. That's the equivalent of many spell slots and more powerful than nearly all Feats I can think of.

Disguise: Depending on how you play, this could be awesome for interaction with NPCs in social settings. You disguise yourself like the spell Disguise Self which allows you to change your appearance for an hour per level in hour incremental slots. Pretend to be an important dignitiary, a town guard, a jailor, a member of a cult - the list is endless.

Healing: By 5th level you can cast Cure Moderate Wounds to everyone in your party plus all the cohorts, animal companions and familiars as well plus any NPC's you encounter. A typical party of say 5 characters, a familiar and an animal companion would mean 7 uses of a 2nd level spell slot a day for one hex if everyone got injured. Very good value.

Misfortune: Devastating hex which causes a creature within 30 feet to reroll ALL attack rolls, ability checks, saving throws and skill checks in a round (2 rounds at 8th level) and take the worse roll. The beauty of this hex is combining it with the Cackle hex to extend the misfortune on indefinitely if you keep cackling each round. This hex CAN be combined with Evil Eye on a creature for even more devastation.

Cackle: Uses a MOVE not a STANDARD action to extend all fortune, misfortune, evil eye, charm and agony hexes already in effect within 30 feet. This is great synergy for hexes you have already used.

So all up that's already 7+ awesome hexes that are worth spending the Extra Hex feat on to make your witch more powerful. I stand by my earlier assessment in this thread that hexes are better than nearly all feats so multiple Extra Hex feats is sound.

Inscribe Scroll feat is useful as it also has the potential to save you multiple spell slots in a day. Someone also mentioned Spell Focus Enchantment feat. I wasn't aware that raised the DC of your hexes. If someone can clarify that it does then it may be worth picking up as well.

Dark Archive

I've never understood the whole "All Witches are female" mindset. I've had some fun and interesting debates with my grandmother over the subject, because she watched "Bewitched" a lot when she was younger and that show specifically stated that Male Witches were called Warlocks. Of course, that's non-sense. Anyone who practices Witchcraft is a witch, whether they are male or female. Anyway.....

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Evil Genius Prime wrote:

I've never understood the whole "All Witches are female" mindset. I've had some fun and interesting debates with my grandmother over the subject, because she watched "Bewitched" a lot when she was younger and that show specifically stated that Male Witches were called Warlocks. Of course, that's non-sense. Anyone who practices Witchcraft is a witch, whether they are male or female. Anyway.....

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post.

um didn't you make the exact and I mean word for word post yesterday? *points up thread*


Patrons: wouldn't mirror image be a good option? Am I right in thinking that you can't UMD this spell, or can you get it on a scroll that someone else scribed?

Witch has no shield spell to save her early days.


Combat Casting: Ususally this is a no brainer for full casters, however you have Hex's that you can use that don't provoke AoO's. I would probably still want it, but maybe not as early as a Wiz/Sorc would.

Dark Archive

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Evil Genius Prime wrote:

I've never understood the whole "All Witches are female" mindset. I've had some fun and interesting debates with my grandmother over the subject, because she watched "Bewitched" a lot when she was younger and that show specifically stated that Male Witches were called Warlocks. Of course, that's non-sense. Anyone who practices Witchcraft is a witch, whether they are male or female. Anyway.....

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post.

um didn't you make the exact and I mean word for word post yesterday? *points up thread*

I realized that in the first post, I said "All witches are EVIL". I meant "All witches are female". I couldn't edit it, so I reposted it. I was seriously sleep deprived when I posted the original post. Hence the total word screw-up.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ah I see, I didn't notice the one word change.


PeteZero wrote:

Human, racial trait: Heart of the Wilderness (More then enough skill points), favored class: witch

STR: 8
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 20
WIS: 8
CHA: 10

Something I forgot to mention. There's a handy little rule at the bottom of page 169 in the Core Rulebook that can give you a few extra attribute points to play with if you are using a point buy system.

Pick a middle aged witch. Since you want a very high intelligence, middle aged gives +1 to int, wis and chr and gives -1 to str, con and dex. This will work out cheaper as you can achieve an 18 or 20 intelligence at first level depending on race but only need a 17 starting score.

With a 20 point buy system for a human you could have:

Int 17 + 1 middle aged + 2 race = 20
Wis 9 + 1 middle aged = 10
Chr 9 + 1 middle aged = 10
Str 9 - 1 middle aged = 8
Con 15 - 1 middle aged = 14
Dex 13 - 1 middle aged = 12

As you can see, you are 2 points ahead of your original scores.


Slumber: Is there no love for sleep without a HD limit? Seems pretty good to me.


Evil Genius Prime wrote:


I realized that in the first post, I said "All witches are EVIL". I meant "All witches are female". I couldn't edit it, so I reposted it. I was seriously sleep deprived when I posted the original post. Hence the total word screw-up.

Are you sure... ;)


hogarth wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Evil eye is indeed my favorite and I do love it. But as I mentioned Misfortune can easily be replaced with Ill Omen (especially since Ill Omen has longer range and duration).
Wha? Ill Omen lasts for (1 + lvl/5) rolls (a maximum of 3 rolls in PFS play). Misfortune lasts for every single roll the target makes, as long as the witch keeps it going with Cackle.

Yes I'm aware that Ill Omen is only going to affect 3 rolls maximum... the question is how many do you really need?

Misfortune can last forever... IF you stay within 30 feet, AND you spend that move action every round. Those are two big "if"s. Unless you have a means to move away and back every round without using a move action you're going to get smashed cackling regularly as a witch if you do anything else.

Flight isn't bad, it can save on spell slots -- but by level 9 I can instead cast overland flight, and honestly a fly speed before that point is useful... but not needed -- not to mention that it can be covered by the actual fly spell.

Healing can be nice... but we all know about in combat healing, honestly a wand of cure light will have the same net effect. It's not bad... but it's not the way I would want to spend a class feature that I could instead get fortune, ward, evil eye, slumber or cackle with.

Disguise is such a common effect to have that it can generally simply be done with a skill check. And the skill doesn't leave you high and dry if someone manages to interact with your illusion.

To put it in other terms:

I find that the best hex choices are:

Fortune, Ward, Evil Eye, Cackle, and Slumber

Acceptable choices are:
Healing, Misfortune, and Flight

While some of the weakest are:
Caldron (unavailable in society play anyways), and disguise (a first level spell readily available in magic item form, and a skill to boot).

I generally find that simply taking a prestige class, and then if you really want them, taking the extra hexes with feats works better than sticking with witch...

Especially since I really am not impressed with the "major" hexes currently.


You may wish to consider a little more Strength for use with Spectral Hand as a back up plan if the Enchantments don't work out. There are many Touch spells that don't grant a save.


Abraham spalding wrote:

However if you are sticking with witch all the way (again I wouldn't go past level 8 currently with the hexes available) I would take misfortune.

We should remember though that witch levels only increase the save for these Hexes -- after all with the extra hex discovery there isn't much need to stay in witch since you can keep getting the goodies (if you want them) while getting better benefits from the prestige classes (and I would argue that the pathfinder savant offers more than staying in witch does, especially in PFS... Lore master would also be a good choice).

You would only want to multiclass out of the Witch if it offered ongoing levels of existing spellcasting which Loremaster does grant. The Loremaster is an interesting option I hadn't considered and will have to give it closer scrutiny. I have the Core Rulebook and APG and couldn't find Pathfinder Savant. Where can I look to find out about it?

Abraham spalding wrote:
Especially since I really am not impressed with the "major" hexes currently.

I had a look over the major hexes after this comment and agree with you that they seem a bit weak though Retribution looks ok to me.

With regards to the starting hexes, we will have to agree to disagree. :) I think it's too easy to use up spell slots quickly and some of the hexes offer a way around this problem while only costing a feat.


c873788 wrote:

Something I forgot to mention. There's a handy little rule at the bottom of page 169 in the Core Rulebook that can give you a few extra attribute points to play with if you are using a point buy system.

Pick a middle aged witch.

Not possible in PFS play, though. (You don't get the attribute bonuses for age.)

Abraham wrote:
Especially since I really am not impressed with the "major" hexes currently.

Well, they're only available for a tiny portion of PFS play (6 or 7 modules), so you can pretty much ignore them.


Stone the Crows wrote:
You may wish to consider a little more Strength for use with Spectral Hand as a back up plan if the Enchantments don't work out. There are many Touch spells that don't grant a save.

A Reach metamagic rod is pretty cheap, though.


Whow, so much input. Thanks, that really helps.

For stats, my problem is, I really want INT 20 to start off with, and that was a way around it. A bit off WIS, so WIL saves aren't hurt too much, get the trait latent psion - +2 to mind affecting effects. And STR 8 should work too. Would like a higher CHA but see no way unless sacrificing INT.
For hexes to begin with evil eye, cackle, slumber
Familiar: Fox or weasel for the reflex save
Patron: Trickery?
Invisibility is nice, but if you use evil eye, misfortune, slumber you're visible again, getting blink as well is okay, is it really useful as a 3rd lvl spell esp. when you have a 20% spell failure?

Where can I find the metamagic rod of reach?

hogarth wrote:
Stone the Crows wrote:
You may wish to consider a little more Strength for use with Spectral Hand as a back up plan if the Enchantments don't work out. There are many Touch spells that don't grant a save.
A Reach metamagic rod is pretty cheap, though.


PeteZero wrote:

Where can I find the metamagic rod of reach?

hogarth wrote:
Stone the Crows wrote:
You may wish to consider a little more Strength for use with Spectral Hand as a back up plan if the Enchantments don't work out. There are many Touch spells that don't grant a save.
A Reach metamagic rod is pretty cheap, though.

It's in the Advanced Player's Guide.


PeteZero wrote:

Whow, so much input. Thanks, that really helps.

For stats, my problem is, I really want INT 20 to start off with, and that was a way around it. A bit off WIS, so WIL saves aren't hurt too much, get the trait latent psion - +2 to mind affecting effects. And STR 8 should work too. Would like a higher CHA but see no way unless sacrificing INT.
For hexes to begin with evil eye, cackle, slumber
Familiar: Fox or weasel for the reflex save
Patron: Trickery?
Invisibility is nice, but if you use evil eye, misfortune, slumber you're visible again, getting blink as well is okay, is it really useful as a 3rd lvl spell esp. when you have a 20% spell failure?

Trickery is probably your best choice of patron as mirror image is a great low level defensive spell which won't interfere with your hexes.

If your GM is the sort that is likely to target your familiar then take a flyer such as a raven because your familiar must be protected at all costs. Otherwise fox or weasel is fine.


hogarth wrote:
PeteZero wrote:

Where can I find the metamagic rod of reach?

hogarth wrote:
Stone the Crows wrote:
You may wish to consider a little more Strength for use with Spectral Hand as a back up plan if the Enchantments don't work out. There are many Touch spells that don't grant a save.
A Reach metamagic rod is pretty cheap, though.
It's in the Advanced Player's Guide.

He'll still need some Strength to hit, plus Spectral Hand gives a +2 bonus.


PeteZero wrote:

Whow, so much input. Thanks, that really helps.

For stats, my problem is, I really want INT 20 to start off with, and that was a way around it. A bit off WIS, so WIL saves aren't hurt too much, get the trait latent psion - +2 to mind affecting effects. And STR 8 should work too. Would like a higher CHA but see no way unless sacrificing INT.
For hexes to begin with evil eye, cackle, slumber
Familiar: Fox or weasel for the reflex save
Patron: Trickery?
Invisibility is nice, but if you use evil eye, misfortune, slumber you're visible again, getting blink as well is okay, is it really useful as a 3rd lvl spell esp. when you have a 20% spell failure?

As a matter of interest, which spells do you intend on taking during the first 5 levels or so?

What spells would others recommend?


Some spell choices can be eliminated by hex selection....

First level
command
mount
obscuring mist


c873788 wrote:


You would only want to multiclass out of the Witch if it offered ongoing levels of existing spellcasting which Loremaster does grant. The Loremaster is an interesting option I hadn't considered and will have to give it closer scrutiny. I have the Core Rulebook and APG and couldn't find Pathfinder Savant. Where can I look to find out about it?

Pathfinder savant is in seeker of secrets, and is available for pathfinder society play.

The prereqs include 2nd level spell casting, 5 ranks in a couple of skills and some feats (the feat requirements are changed for PFS)

The benefits include:
1/2 PrC level on spellcraft, UMD and K(arcana) in addition to being able to take 10 on UMD checks.
1 spell off of any spell list added to your spell list for all but 1 level of the PrC (this spell if not already on your list counts as one spell level higher than it normally would).
The ability to use scrolls at your caster level instead of the caster level they are scribed at.
And the last ability you would get with my suggestion of witch 8 is swift identify as a spell-like twice per day.

c873788 wrote:


Abraham spalding wrote:
Especially since I really am not impressed with the "major" hexes currently.

I had a look over the major hexes after this comment and agree with you that they seem a bit weak though Retribution looks ok to me.

With regards to the starting hexes, we will have to agree to disagree. :) I think it's too easy to use up spell slots quickly and some of the hexes offer a way around this problem while only costing a feat.

I don't mind them too much... I just don't see a point in saying in class to get them when feats are available if people want them that badly.

IF you want your feats for something else then I wouldn't get the ones I called average since they can be duplicated by spells.

My main suggestion for a pathfinder society witch would be:
Witch 8
Pathfinder savant 4

With improved familiar and boon companion (feat from seeker of secrets which will keep your familiar at level for PFS) and Arcane Blast. The first feats would be spent on toughness, improved initiative, and probably a metamagic (quicken is still nice, though reach is worthy too).


KenderKin wrote:

Some spell choices can be eliminated by hex selection....

First level
command
mount
obscuring mist

While I probably wouldn't take command I would heavily consider Mount.

IF you are using a spell or hex each round, AND cackling you will need more than a five foot step to stay out of trouble. With mount you get a free horse to use as a mount. Since the mount can move and still leave you all your actions you'll be able to get around the field and still get out the spells/hexes and cackle to keep things going.

Now at higher level I would trade it out for something else (possibly phantom steed), but at levels 1~4 the mount spell is useful enough to consider using every day for it's combat advantages (this isn't mentioning that the horse summoned makes a nice meat shield/space filler if things are going badly).


Remember, nothing states that you must take a major hex for your witch at level 10+, the major hex ability merely expands your choices.

I am starting a witch for a Pathfinder game my Monday gaming group is switching to (our last game was Stargate) this week. Since I am the secondary healer, I took the healing hex at level one, and the additional hex feat for my level one feat (for the evil eye hex). The next 3 hexes will be cackle, sleep, and flight (perhaps not in that order, though). Being a half-elf, my skill focus feat went into UMD, as the only other character capable of using the skill is a half-elf rogue.

When my character hits level 10 I am taking the major healing hex, but then I have a secondary healer role and will probably lean heavily on my hexes during combat. The other divine caster in the party looks to be a druid with the fire domain (the player doesn't want to control multiple things when he isn't behind the screen). This effectively splits the typical divine and arcane caster roles each between 2 players, just not the way that is typical.

I took the Shadow patron for spells and the viper for a familiar. I was planning on a greensting scorpion for the initiative bonus but trying to figure out the sliding size scale was too hard. I kept coming up with negative stats after applying all of them. The Bestiary really could use an example for multiple size shifts somewhere.

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