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Post from Paizo's fb page:
New products announced at Gen Con: Ultimate Magic (April), Ultimate Combat (August), Tian Xia World Guide (August) plus tons of other stuff. Everything through June 2011 is already available for preorder on paizo.com!
I think this is great
Wow. A whole year. Still, looking forward to it.
M
That's quite possibly the most exciting future product news for me, ever.
Well, one man's exciting is another one's underwhelming. Except for the new rule books, it looks 2011 will not be a year of products to enjoy for me with its horror AP (meh) and sourcebooks and pseudo-Asia (double meh) AP and sourcebooks. I just hope the pseudo-Asian stuff doesn't take up too much space in the rule books. Well then I'll wait for 2012.
Another thing: didn't James just recently say that four hardcover books in one year were too much to stem, so the Inner Sea World Guide had to be delayed? This now looks like four or even five hardcovers in 2011, with Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, World Guide Inner Sea, World Guide Tian-Xia, and possibly Bestiary 3. Hm.
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Another thing: didn't James just recently say that four hardcover books in one year were too much to stem, so the Inner Sea World Guide had to be delayed? This now looks like four or even five hardcovers in 2011, with Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, World Guide Inner Sea, World Guide Tian-Xia, and possibly Bestiary 3. Hm.
Inner Sea World Guide was originally scheduled for September 2010 but got pushed out to February 2011 due to APG (which just debuted) and Bestiary 2 (scheduled for November 2010). Maybe Inner Sea's classified under Paizo's internal scheduling?
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Well, one man's exciting is another one's underwhelming. Except for the new rule books, it looks 2011 will not be a year of products to enjoy for me with its horror AP (meh) and sourcebooks and pseudo-Asia (double meh) AP and sourcebooks. I just hope the pseudo-Asian stuff doesn't take up too much space in the rule books. Well then I'll wait for 2012.
Another thing: didn't James just recently say that four hardcover books in one year were too much to stem, so the Inner Sea World Guide had to be delayed? This now looks like four or even five hardcovers in 2011, with Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, World Guide Inner Sea, World Guide Tian-Xia, and possibly Bestiary 3. Hm.
James said that 4 hardcovers of the size of the GMG/APG was too much. I note that Ultimate Magic is only 256 pages rather that 330 - If all four hardcovers are that size, it works out to the same amount of paper as three 330ish page books.
They also said that Inner Sea wouldn't count against next year as it was a left over from this year.
CEO
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James said that 4 hardcovers of the size of the GMG/APG was too much. I note that Ultimate Magic is only 256 pages rather that 330 - If all four hardcovers are that size, it works out to the same amount of paper as three 330ish page books.
They also said that Inner Sea wouldn't count against next year as it was a left over from this year.
+1
-Lisa
Thanks Lisa, that's good news! Let's hope the schedule works out as planned!
I think the Tian Xia material will be a great move for Pathfinder. Not everyone is into it, but others are. Most of the AP material til now has be "meh" for me as far as the flavor of the ground it covered, but the new stuff on the schedule gets me excited for 2011.
I would be just as stoked if Paizo were doing other non-traditional western cultures as well, such as African, Polynesian, or Native American -style settings. I think we don't get enough of other, real-life equivalent, fantasy cultures in gaming material. I enjoy seeing other cultural and mythological influences in my game settings, whether I am running the game or playing in it.
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Contributor
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I think the Tian Xia material will be a great move for Pathfinder. Not everyone is into it, but others are.
One of the thoughts I keep foremost in mind as I expand my outline for the Tian Xia novel is how to introduce what's cool about an Asian-inspired setting to readers who aren't normally fans of, say, kung-fu or samurai movies. I'm hopeful that showing that part of the world through the eyes of Count Jeggare and Radovan will be a big part of bridging the gap between European and Asian cultures.
I would be just as stoked if Paizo were doing other non-traditional western cultures as well, such as African, Polynesian, or Native American -style settings.
IIRC, the Serpent's Skull AP involves either either an African or South American type culture (I honestly forget which). Not a setting book, perhaps, but still something.
One of the thoughts I keep foremost in mind as I expand my outline for the Tian Xia novel is how to introduce what's cool about an Asian-inspired setting to readers who aren't normally fans of, say, kung-fu or samurai movies. I'm hopeful that showing that part of the world through the eyes of Count Jeggare and Radovan will be a big part of bridging the gap between European and Asian cultures.
Cool! That makes the novel so much more appealing already.
I think the Tian Xia material will be a great move for Pathfinder. Not everyone is into it, but others are.One of the thoughts I keep foremost in mind as I expand my outline for the Tian Xia novel is how to introduce what's cool about an Asian-inspired setting to readers who aren't normally fans of, say, kung-fu or samurai movies. I'm hopeful that showing that part of the world through the eyes of Count Jeggare and Radovan will be a big part of bridging the gap between European and Asian cultures.
I don't know if it would help you at all, but even if it won't help you, other people might enjoy it anyway:
One of the best non-kung-fu, non-samurai-movie Asian-inspired book series I have ever read is the Empire series by Janny Wurts and Raymond Feist. Daughter of the Empire, Servant of the Empire, Mistress of the Empire are the three titles. They're exceptional fantasy in their own right, and a very nice (IMO) look at faux Japanese/Asian society, not just the warrior caste. I highly recommend that anyone interested in that type of thing read them :)
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I think the Tian Xia material will be a great move for Pathfinder. Not everyone is into it, but others are.One of the thoughts I keep foremost in mind as I expand my outline for the Tian Xia novel is how to introduce what's cool about an Asian-inspired setting to readers who aren't normally fans of, say, kung-fu or samurai movies. I'm hopeful that showing that part of the world through the eyes of Count Jeggare and Radovan will be a big part of bridging the gap between European and Asian cultures.
+1.
The Empire series is, indeed, an awesome trilogy. I recently re-read it a few months back. Although I saw not just an Asian-inspired society and culture, but one inspired by South American cultures, as well. There were a lot of subtle references to native South American cultures throughout the series - not as much as the Asian influences, but still there (especially in many of the clan names and religious practices).
It is very much about political intrigue and the clash of Eastern and Western cultures, though action and adventure are still very much there. The clash of cultures isn't really apparent in the first book, but the second one introduces a major character that allows the audience to really see things from a Western point of view and see how the native Asian-like character react to that. The third book has less of that point of view in it, but the influence of it is still felt and even affects how things play out in the story. It is a story with very good story telling.
I am glad to hear about the approach being taken in the upcoming novel for the setting of Tian Xia. I believe that approach would be the best to take in order to draw in a wider audience.
I don't know much about the inner workings of Paizo, but it is worth noting that two of the big hardcovers for 2009-2010 were the core products that everyone needs to play the game. The launch of a whole new game might be more difficult to roll out than supplements for said game, especially as those supplements become more focused.
Again, I don't know whether this is true, but I would guess that the rollout of the Core Rulebook and Bestiary (and to a lesser extent, the GMG and APG) might have required more resources than the products coming in the next year.
I enjoy the oriental settings that have been done for all the past versions of D&D, so I have high hopes for the Pathfinder view on it. The one thing I hope it does not have, however, is an overblown and over-restrictive honor system. I don't want every character to have to live by some version of the samurai code or some culture-wide honor ranking. If I want to deal with something like that, I will play a paladin or whatever version of the samurai the Tian setting will include, but I do not want the Tian version of a Wu-jen or Shugenja or whatever to have to follow the same code. So please, no honor points or honor ranks forced on everyone.
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I enjoy the oriental settings that have been done for all the past versions of D&D, so I have high hopes for the Pathfinder view on it. The one thing I hope it does not have, however, is an overblown and over-restrictive honor system. I don't want every character to have to live by some version of the samurai code or some culture-wide honor ranking. If I want to deal with something like that, I will play a paladin or whatever version of the samurai the Tian setting will include, but I do not want the Tian version of a Wu-jen or Shugenja or whatever to have to follow the same code. So please, no honor points or honor ranks forced on everyone.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I also hope there are no new base classes. I could live with new class archetypes for the people that absolutely insist that a samurai is somehow different from a fighter or that a ninja is somehow different from a rogue, but "Orientalizing" the system to accommodate a bunch of new and barely-different base classes would be against everything that Pathfinder has tried to do in the last year. It would be an absolutely unsell for me, and probably spell the end of my subscription to the line.
Jeremy Puckett
You know cavalier is by far the best fit for a samurai, considering the truth is that samurai only followed their coade as much as european knights did chivalry, and hell, at least chivalry was written down.
A single cavalier order if you want a new rules element for samurai would do it, order of the sword and lion wih their service of a fuedal lord do fine otherwise.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Everone's a nipponphile...
I want a good mystic China/Tibet/Korea/India counterpart, or somthing that mashes all the good parts together. Samurai facing off against Wuxia monks vs mystic yogi. Caste systems for PCs to violate. Foo dogs vs dragons. Wu jen who make pacts with spirits to fight ofuda tossing demon hunters. Ninja vs Thuggee. enlightened Aasimar shao-lin monks vs Rakshasha Tieflings.
You know cavalier is by far the best fit for a samurai, considering the truth is that samurai only followed their coade as much as european knights did chivalry, and hell, at least chivalry was written down.
A single cavalier order if you want a new rules element for samurai would do it, order of the sword and lion wih their service of a fuedal lord do fine otherwise.
I so agree here, to many folks forget they were horse and bow based far more then sword based.
Wow! These books all sound awesome.
Well I wouldn't quite go that far but I do agree with the sentiment. I would not like to see Ninja or Samurai as new base classes.
Mind you a Ninja or Kensai prestige class would be a cool development.
I'm thinking Ninja and Kensai could all be done as Rogue (Ninja), or Fighter or Cavalier (Kensai) archetypes a la Advanced Player's Guide. We'd need a few dozen more Rogue talents to choose from to add in some Ninja spice though.
Idle speculation aside, I'm sure whatever Paizo dreams up will be pretty incredible!
Foo dogs vs dragons.
Yes! Foo dogs! Yes! +1!
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Everone's a nipponphile...
I want a good mystic China/Tibet/Korea/India counterpart, or somthing that mashes all the good parts together. Samurai facing off against Wuxia monks vs mystic yogi. Caste systems for PCs to violate. Foo dogs vs dragons. Wu jen who make pacts with spirits to fight ofuda tossing demon hunters. Ninja vs Thuggee. enlightened Aasimar shao-lin monks vs Rakshasha Tieflings.
Oh, I agree with all of this stuff too. The fact that I'm a primary Japanophile doesn't alter the fact that I'm also an aficionado of all Asian cultures. I would love to see a well-done China analogue, and India is such fertile ground, it's amazing it hasn't been done before. I think we'll prolly have to wait for a book on Vudra to see much of India, though.
Jeremy Puckett
Everone's a nipponphile...
I want a good mystic China/Tibet/Korea/India counterpart, or somthing that mashes all the good parts together. Samurai facing off against Wuxia monks vs mystic yogi. Caste systems for PCs to violate. Foo dogs vs dragons. Wu jen who make pacts with spirits to fight ofuda tossing demon hunters. Ninja vs Thuggee. enlightened Aasimar shao-lin monks vs Rakshasha Tieflings.
This! Though india-analogue isn't on Tian Xia, theres an ocean between it and Vudra.
+1 for south asian/Indian/South East asia/Pacific stuff. I'm kinda tired of Sammies and such :) My current campaign is set in a Rakshasa dominated area of a large smashed continent, with OA Naga as the most common inhabitants. Lots of ruins to explore, old secrets to uncover, and boats. It's been a lot of fun.
Everone's a nipponphile...
I want a good mystic China/Tibet/Korea/India counterpart, or somthing that mashes all the good parts together. Samurai facing off against Wuxia monks vs mystic yogi. Caste systems for PCs to violate. Foo dogs vs dragons. Wu jen who make pacts with spirits to fight ofuda tossing demon hunters. Ninja vs Thuggee. enlightened Aasimar shao-lin monks vs Rakshasha Tieflings.
Oh, agreed utterly. Part of the reason I'm more interested in this than I was when 3.0 Oriental Adventures came out is that even in the page or two on Tien in the campaign setting it was made clear that there's a lot more to the continent than yet another ersatz Japan and China. Which, yes, are still there and will likely get a lot of space in the book, but I'm optimistic, based on the work Paizo has done previously, that there will be a lot more than just shaolin in one country and ninja in another.
Everone's a nipponphile...
I want a good mystic China/Tibet/Korea/India counterpart, or somthing that mashes all the good parts together. Samurai facing off against Wuxia monks vs mystic yogi. Caste systems for PCs to violate. Foo dogs vs dragons. Wu jen who make pacts with spirits to fight ofuda tossing demon hunters. Ninja vs Thuggee. enlightened Aasimar shao-lin monks vs Rakshasha Tieflings.
I completely agree. That is why I wrote Heroes of the Jade Oath for Arcana Evolved - to give it support from all the different cultures that could be in an OA style game. I was sick of the limited OA support and what OA support there was out there from the industry was strictly for Japan-analogue cultures. I want all of Asia, not just one island.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I completely agree. That is why I wrote Heroes of the Jade Oath for Arcana Evolved - to give it support from all the different cultures that could be in an OA style game. I was sick of the limited OA support and what OA support there was out there from the industry was strictly for Japan-analogue cultures. I want all of Asia, not just one island.Everone's a nipponphile...
I want a good mystic China/Tibet/Korea/India counterpart, or somthing that mashes all the good parts together. Samurai facing off against Wuxia monks vs mystic yogi. Caste systems for PCs to violate. Foo dogs vs dragons. Wu jen who make pacts with spirits to fight ofuda tossing demon hunters. Ninja vs Thuggee. enlightened Aasimar shao-lin monks vs Rakshasha Tieflings.
I enjoyed reading HotJO, especially the 'Ofuda for everyone' part. I'd had the image of a halfling cleric of Sheylin, with rings in the back of her glaive like with the Green Destiny. It was nice to see mechanical rules proposed for that.
(That and the image of her in a bar of humans and all you can really see is the head if the glaive bobbing along, the rings softly chiming)
I completely agree. That is why I wrote Heroes of the Jade Oath for Arcana Evolved - to give it support from all the different cultures that could be in an OA style game. I was sick of the limited OA support and what OA support there was out there from the industry was strictly for Japan-analogue cultures. I want all of Asia, not just one island.Everone's a nipponphile...
I want a good mystic China/Tibet/Korea/India counterpart, or somthing that mashes all the good parts together. Samurai facing off against Wuxia monks vs mystic yogi. Caste systems for PCs to violate. Foo dogs vs dragons. Wu jen who make pacts with spirits to fight ofuda tossing demon hunters. Ninja vs Thuggee. enlightened Aasimar shao-lin monks vs Rakshasha Tieflings.
+1 to this.
Woohoo! *does the froggie dance*
Looking forward for this one!
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Creative Director
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It obviously remains to be seen if we can pull off our hardcover schedule for next year. We've made some changes—shorter hardcovers is one such change, and hiring more staff is another.
In addition... much of the work on the World Guide is already done, so it's easier to pull off than a brand new from scratch hardcover.
Anyway... we'll see if by this time next year we're on schedule, I guess! I'm hoping we will be, for sure!
Tian Xia hardcover.... interesting. As a Chinese (geographically only) subscriber (and one of the very very few no doubt) I look forward to this with great interest.
Yum yum.
Just weighing in, here. I'm eager to see the Paizo treatment of Tian Xia. I do, however, have some reservations.
Please, take all the cultural goodness and work your Paizo magic on it.
Please DON'T succumb to the too-common trope of everything "asian/oriental" must be turned up to 11. I have no desire to see different physics rules applied to different geographic regions of Golarion.
In other words, I have zero interest in a PF-flavored Crouching Tiger / Hidden Dragon or Wuxia setting.
Give me something along the lines of The Last Samurai, and I'm there.
In other words, I have zero interest in a PF-flavored Crouching Tiger / Hidden Dragon or Wuxia setting.
Uh, well, I really do hate to break it to you, but that already exists in the Core Rulebook. Pathfinder Monks can standing jump 15 feet straight up at level 20 with a 10 in Dex and no ranks in the skill whatsoever by rolling a 1 on the d20. One with maximum ranks, a 20 Dex, and a 20 on the d20 could jump almost twice that vertical distance still from a standing start.
In other words, I have zero interest in a PF-flavored Crouching Tiger / Hidden Dragon or Wuxia setting.
Give me something along the lines of The Last Samurai, and I'm there.
Why can't it be both? As it stands, the Inner Sea features an incredible variety of nations and regions. I don't see why Tian Xia wouldn't be able to support the same number of Asian inspired nations including samurai, wuxia, ninjas, and anime.
In other words, I have zero interest in a PF-flavored Crouching Tiger / Hidden Dragon or Wuxia setting.Uh, well, I really do hate to break it to you, but that already exists in the Core Rulebook. Pathfinder Monks can standing jump 15 feet straight up at level 20 with a 10 in Dex and no ranks in the skill whatsoever by rolling a 1 on the d20. One with maximum ranks, a 20 Dex, and a 20 on the d20 could jump almost twice that vertical distance still from a standing start.
Yeah, and it's why the monk is the class I like the least. I would clarify my statement, though. If Wuxia-style feats are a result of class abilities that are supernatural (i.e. labeled Su), then I can tolerate it. But I don't want fighters and rogues pulling off that crap just because they're on a different continent.
What I'm objecting to is the radical shift in tone & theme of the story. I'm looking for Asian-inspired swords-n-sorcery rather than the ability to emulate Asian folklore.
In other words, I have zero interest in a PF-flavored Crouching Tiger / Hidden Dragon or Wuxia setting.Uh, well, I really do hate to break it to you, but that already exists in the Core Rulebook. Pathfinder Monks can standing jump 15 feet straight up at level 20 with a 10 in Dex and no ranks in the skill whatsoever by rolling a 1 on the d20. One with maximum ranks, a 20 Dex, and a 20 on the d20 could jump almost twice that vertical distance still from a standing start.Yeah, and it's why the monk is the class I like the least. I would clarify my statement, though. If Wuxia-style feats are a result of class abilities that are supernatural (i.e. labeled Su), then I can tolerate it. But I don't want fighters and rogues pulling off that crap just because they're on a different continent.
What I'm objecting to is the radical shift in tone & theme of the story. I'm looking for Asian-inspired swords-n-sorcery rather than the ability to emulate Asian folklore.
Fair enough, then :)
Why can't it be both? As it stands, the Inner Sea features an incredible variety of nations and regions. I don't see why Tian Xia wouldn't be able to support the same number of Asian inspired nations including samurai, wuxia, ninjas, and anime.In other words, I have zero interest in a PF-flavored Crouching Tiger / Hidden Dragon or Wuxia setting.
Give me something along the lines of The Last Samurai, and I'm there.
It can, if the boundaries are established. Yes, there's an ability to accommodate a wide range of play styles in the Inner Sea region. I'm cool with an Asian-inspired region that supports kung fu monks alongside samurai and ninjas. But there's something about the whole Asian-influenced media (esp. film) where everything is over the top.
[See the various threads where (& I'm paraphrasing) "Ninjas & Samurai CAN'T be modeled using existing classes and archetypes! Their abilities MUST be modeled with base classes," and of course, the ever-present "Katanas MUST be the uber-weapon of any game" are cropping up. THAT's the mindset & play style I'm hoping will be avoided.]
As a counter-example, I'd play or run a game based on Greek mythology where PCs can be heroes like Perseus or Ulysses but if everyone has Heracles-style powers, I'm out.
(And yes, I realize high-level PF can get there but it doesn't START there.)
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Post from Paizo's fb page:
New products announced at Gen Con: Ultimate Magic (April), Ultimate Combat (August), Tian Xia World Guide (August) plus tons of other stuff. Everything through June 2011 is already available for preorder on paizo.com!
Woot! I am really looking forward to the Tian Xia World Guide.
[See the various threads where (& I'm paraphrasing) ... "Katanas MUST be the uber-weapon of any game" are cropping up. THAT's the mindset & play style I'm hoping will be avoided.]
For the record, the vast majority of that katana stuff is actually people mocking the concept that katanas need to be anything other than a bastard sword, mechanically speaking.