[...] katanas need to be anything other than a bastard sword, mechanically speaking.
+1. At most, masterwork bastard sword.
[...] katanas need to be anything other than a bastard sword, mechanically speaking.+1. At most, masterwork bastard sword.
Only if all bastard swords get to be masterwork, as ya know they ARE bastard swords.
Martial art styles! Feat trees for combat! More Monk stuff!
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I've tried the various incarnations of asian-inspired fantasy as far back as 1st ed Oriental Adventures, and still been left cold. That said, I'm always interested to see what new spin Paizo can put on things that have been tried by others in the past.
I would also have been more interested in a Vudran sourcebook, as a less explored milieu, but that may come based on Tian Xia's popularity (sales).
[See the various threads where (& I'm paraphrasing) ... "Katanas MUST be the uber-weapon of any game" are cropping up. THAT's the mindset & play style I'm hoping will be avoided.]For the record, the vast majority of that katana stuff is actually people mocking the concept that katanas need to be anything other than a bastard sword, mechanically speaking.
Yes, but the mocking is rooted in that it's been a pretty persvasive theme going back many years on many forums.
[See the various threads where (& I'm paraphrasing) ... "Katanas MUST be the uber-weapon of any game" are cropping up. THAT's the mindset & play style I'm hoping will be avoided.]For the record, the vast majority of that katana stuff is actually people mocking the concept that katanas need to be anything other than a bastard sword, mechanically speaking.
Paizo has already resolved this issue. In Souls for Smuggler's Shiv, one of the NPCs wields a masterwork katana. In the NPC's stat block James Jacobs treated it as a bastard sword.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Paizo has already resolved this issue. In Souls for Smuggler's Shiv, one of the NPCs wields a masterwork katana. In the NPC's stat block James Jacobs treated it as a bastard sword.[See the various threads where (& I'm paraphrasing) ... "Katanas MUST be the uber-weapon of any game" are cropping up. THAT's the mindset & play style I'm hoping will be avoided.]For the record, the vast majority of that katana stuff is actually people mocking the concept that katanas need to be anything other than a bastard sword, mechanically speaking.
*sigh* So much for my 'official' 1d8 18-20 X2 weapon dreams.
The Katana Wars are SO outdated. This is Tian Xia we're talking about! It is now the Era of the Jian! Let the Dexterity-enhancing, slashing, piercing, monk-able, fencing weapon debate commence! ;)
The Katana Wars are SO outdated. This is Tian Xia we're talking about! It is now the Era of the Jian! Let the Dexterity-enhancing, slashing, piercing, monk-able, fencing weapon debate commence! ;)
You mean rapiers, right?
:) I keed, I keed (well, not really, but)
Agreed that Vudra needs a book ASAP. Ever charge your players with a Rakshasa mounted on a War Elephant? Lem,me tell you, the fear that fills their eyes makes all my other DM headaches worth it :)
*sigh* So much for my 'official' 1d8 18-20 X2 weapon dreams.
Check out the rhoka from Adventurer's Armory.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*sigh* So much for my 'official' 1d8 18-20 X2 weapon dreams.Check out the rhoka from Adventurer's Armory.
Missed that, but it's so ugly...
It is nice. Not terribly excited though.... I would have much preferred a Vudran book or one discussing Khatapesh.
China/Japan are interesting, and I have visited those countries but from a fantasy point of view Persia and India seem much more exotic and new.
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Seeing as how this is a World Guide, I do hope we'll be seeing more than a monolithic faux-China/Japan. But rather the subtle differences between multiple asian cultures. Islander, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Napal, Tibet, etc. There is quite a swath of varied cultures to emulate.
Tian Xia has countries that emulate various different culture in east/south east asia. Not sure if it covers the likes of Nepal or Tibet ( I think they're more likely to be in the bit of Casmaron near Vudra) or Mongolia (again, probably Casmaron), but it'll also cover Vietnamese, Malay etc.
Seeing as how this is a World Guide, I do hope we'll be seeing more than a monolithic faux-China/Japan. But rather the subtle differences between multiple asian cultures. Islander, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Napal, Tibet, etc. There is quite a swath of varied cultures to emulate.Tian Xia has countries that emulate various different culture in east/south east asia. Not sure if it covers the likes of Nepal or Tibet ( I think they're more likely to be in the bit of Casmaron near Vudra) or Mongolia (again, probably Casmaron), but it'll also cover Vietnamese, Malay etc.
The Tian-La people seem to be Mongolian and steppe influenced.
I'll be happy so long as they give us some information on the kitsune and other Asian 'fairy foxes', And of course the hengeyokai beast-folk (one of my favorite races from the old Oriental Adventures book; they even showed up in the western Realms eventually).
I'd also like to see some attention given to areas outside of Imperial China and Warring States Japan. Like Korea with its three kingdoms; and Tibet's reincarnating rulers (there's more than just the Dalai Lama) and savage warrior tribesmen and maybe a Shangri-La and/or Agharta; and Southeast Asia with dense jungles and naga kings and timelost Khmer cities...
So much to look forward to! *Squees with joy*
It is nice. Not terribly excited though.... I would have much preferred a Vudran book or one discussing Khatapesh.
China/Japan are interesting, and I have visited those countries but from a fantasy point of view Persia and India seem much more exotic and new.
I'd love to see a book covering Imperial Persia, India, and the lands in between (Central Asia) myself. But they have to save something for 2012, after all.
I'd love to see a book covering Imperial Persia, India, and the lands in between (Central Asia) myself. But they have to save something for 2012, after all.It is nice. Not terribly excited though.... I would have much preferred a Vudran book or one discussing Khatapesh.
China/Japan are interesting, and I have visited those countries but from a fantasy point of view Persia and India seem much more exotic and new.
I would love that as well
I would love that as wellI'd love to see a book covering Imperial Persia, India, and the lands in between (Central Asia) myself. But they have to save something for 2012, after all.It is nice. Not terribly excited though.... I would have much preferred a Vudran book or one discussing Khatapesh.
China/Japan are interesting, and I have visited those countries but from a fantasy point of view Persia and India seem much more exotic and new.
As has been said in another thread which I am too tired to search for right now, the source book for Vudra (India) will be tied into the psionics rules, so one will not come out without the other. And if I remember the other thread right, those potential products will not have a chance to come out before 2013. :(
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I'd love to see a book covering Imperial Persia, India, and the lands in between (Central Asia) myself. But they have to save something for 2012, after all.It is nice. Not terribly excited though.... I would have much preferred a Vudran book or one discussing Khatapesh.
China/Japan are interesting, and I have visited those countries but from a fantasy point of view Persia and India seem much more exotic and new.
Casmaron and Vudra likely won't see a World Guide until we get official psionics rules, either by Paizo adopting the Dreamscarred Press conversion or the Paizonians writing their own. There might actually be a final(ish) version of Dreamscarred's update by the end of this year, but the Paizo psionics book, if it ever gets written, won't be until at least 2012 if not 2013.
Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat in 2011, the Epic handbook (and maybe a book with guidelines on monsters as PCs) in 2012, and then maybe Psionics in 2013. Plus a Bestiary each year, and one World Guide release as well. 2011 is already Tian Xia's, and 2012 may very well be other planets to enable Epic gaming to happen away from Golarion itself.
From the perspective of an Asian, this thread is hilarious.
It's ironic given that I've been accused of being an Anglophile more than once.
Creative Director
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Seeing as how this is a World Guide, I do hope we'll be seeing more than a monolithic faux-China/Japan. But rather the subtle differences between multiple asian cultures. Islander, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Napal, Tibet, etc. There is quite a swath of varied cultures to emulate.
You will.
In-world, our China Analogue has ruled this continent for a long time, but 100 years ago that nation crumbled. A big theme of Tian-Xia is that now all sorts of nations are rising to their full potential in a race to become the new "superpower." We'll have regions based on Japan, China, Korea, Tibet, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and more, including some regions that do NOT have Earthly analogues.
Generally... we'll be doing for Asia what the Inner Sea did for Europe and north Africa.
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Seeing as how this is a World Guide, I do hope we'll be seeing more than a monolithic faux-China/Japan. But rather the subtle differences between multiple asian cultures. Islander, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Napal, Tibet, etc. There is quite a swath of varied cultures to emulate.You will.
In-world, our China Analogue has ruled this continent for a long time, but 100 years ago that nation crumbled. A big theme of Tian-Xia is that now all sorts of nations are rising to their full potential in a race to become the new "superpower." We'll have regions based on Japan, China, Korea, Tibet, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and more, including some regions that do NOT have Earthly analogues.
Generally... we'll be doing for Asia what the Inner Sea did for Europe and north Africa.
+1. I may base a future campaign in such an area to get my players away from the pseudo-European fantasy prevalent in most fantasy rpgs. Teach them to haphazardly slaughter the town guards for lookin' at them wrong!
Seeing as how this is a World Guide, I do hope we'll be seeing more than a monolithic faux-China/Japan. But rather the subtle differences between multiple asian cultures. Islander, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Napal, Tibet, etc. There is quite a swath of varied cultures to emulate.You will.
In-world, our China Analogue has ruled this continent for a long time, but 100 years ago that nation crumbled. A big theme of Tian-Xia is that now all sorts of nations are rising to their full potential in a race to become the new "superpower." We'll have regions based on Japan, China, Korea, Tibet, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and more, including some regions that do NOT have Earthly analogues.
Generally... we'll be doing for Asia what the Inner Sea did for Europe and north Africa.
Hooray!!!!!
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Seeing as how this is a World Guide, I do hope we'll be seeing more than a monolithic faux-China/Japan. But rather the subtle differences between multiple asian cultures. Islander, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Napal, Tibet, etc. There is quite a swath of varied cultures to emulate.You will.
In-world, our China Analogue has ruled this continent for a long time, but 100 years ago that nation crumbled. A big theme of Tian-Xia is that now all sorts of nations are rising to their full potential in a race to become the new "superpower." We'll have regions based on Japan, China, Korea, Tibet, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and more, including some regions that do NOT have Earthly analogues.
Generally... we'll be doing for Asia what the Inner Sea did for Europe and north Africa.
James this all sounds exciting, and i will be looking forward to the book. I know everyone and their uncle has thrown advice your way. and I am sure your staff know what they are doing.
Might i suggest a peek at the "Judge Dee" Murder mystery series by Robert Van Gulik?
Titles such as "the chiense gold murders" etc. "The celebrated cases of Judge Dee" is another good one with some background imfo.
When i was in china reading that book, (this was in (1995), and my chinese hosts saw what i was reading they got very excited and happy. I think it made their day. I was there working for a student exchange program, I was taking photographs (im a photographer) of the students the program, and china in general, so the organization could then use the images to further sell their exchange programs.
While they didn't recongize the author, and couldn't read the english, ( sometimes people woudl take a book or notebook out of my hands and look at it upside down) they imeadiatly recognized the chinese characters in the pictures in the book, saying who who the character was.
Judge dee is the chinese equivalent of Sherlock Holmes. the judges advantage is that he was a real person who lived in the tan dynasty from 630 to 700 AD as the book says.
My Chinese hosts were happy that i was trying to learn something of their culture beyond Mao and the cultural revolution. I think by reading this little book, it opened some doors for me.
The books are a delight to read, using such terms as "boxer" to describe what we would now call a "martial artist" they also have simple pictures in them to give you and idea of what things look like at that time period. For myself, a photographer who isnt a scholar, these books gave me a nice and very accesable look at what imperial culture might of been like.
most of them are only 100 pages long. Sorry i began to ramble.
In short I'm looking forward to the Tian Xia source book, and i think the authors might enjoy these "judge dee" books by Robert Van Gulik.
Might i suggest a peek at the "Judge Dee" Murder mystery series by Robert Van Gulik?
Titles such as "the chiense gold murders" etc. "The celebrated cases of Judge Dee" is another good one with some background imfo.
When i was in china reading that book, (this was in (1995), and my chinese hosts saw what i was reading they got very excited and happy. I think it made their day. I was there working for a student exchange program, I was taking photographs (im a photographer) of the students the program, and china in general, so the organization could then use the images to further sell their exchange programs.
While they didn't recongize the author, and couldn't read the english, ( sometimes people woudl take a book or notebook out of my hands and look at it upside down) they imeadiatly recognized the chinese characters in the pictures in the book, saying who who the character was.
Judge dee is the chinese equivalent of Sherlock Holmes. the judges advantage is...
+1
Yay, Judge Dee!
Seeing as how this is a World Guide, I do hope we'll be seeing more than a monolithic faux-China/Japan. But rather the subtle differences between multiple asian cultures. Islander, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Napal, Tibet, etc. There is quite a swath of varied cultures to emulate.You will.
In-world, our China Analogue has ruled this continent for a long time, but 100 years ago that nation crumbled. A big theme of Tian-Xia is that now all sorts of nations are rising to their full potential in a race to become the new "superpower." We'll have regions based on Japan, China, Korea, Tibet, the Pacific Islands, Cambodia, and more, including some regions that do NOT have Earthly analogues.
Generally... we'll be doing for Asia what the Inner Sea did for Europe and north Africa.
You guys are trying to make me go broke, aren't you.
The less Japanese-oriented stuff, the better. My own setting has a very strong Korea/China influence on one area; I'm fairly tired of FANTASY JAPAN by this point, and I'd love to see influences of other Asian countries.
Might i suggest a peek at the "Judge Dee" Murder mystery series by Robert Van Gulik?
Titles such as "the chiense gold murders" etc. "The celebrated cases of Judge Dee" is another good one with some background imfo.
When i was in china reading that book, (this was in (1995), and my chinese hosts saw what i was reading they got very excited and happy. I think it made their day. I was there working for a student exchange program, I was taking photographs (im a photographer) of the students the program, and china in general, so the organization could then use the images to further sell their exchange programs.
While they didn't recongize the author, and couldn't read the english, ( sometimes people woudl take a book or notebook out of my hands and look at it upside down) they imeadiatly recognized the chinese characters in the pictures in the book, saying who who the character was.
Judge dee is the chinese equivalent of Sherlock Holmes. the judges advantage is...
+1
Yay, Judge Dee!
+2 for Judge Dee. Also a great example of how to build a LG/LN rogue who works for the cops instead of against them.
Question: Will we be seeing write-ups on the Dragons of the Celestial Host?
(I mean, common, perfect place for them, right?)
If so I recommend a reconsideration of the idea of them not having wings. (I for one have always felt very strongly that true dragons should all have one head, one tail, four legs and two wings. Hair? Serpentine body? Multi-colored scales? Fine. But keep the basics. But that's just me.)
But regardless, I would love to see some new dragons! Especially a new "type" with a common theme and society, not just "one new one here, one new one there".
I can barely imagine how fantastic these will be when written up!
Things I'd like to see in Tian Xia:
-Fox spirits
-Wise dragon gods
-Wandering swordsmen seeking to perfect their art (preferably blind)
-All the creative, awesome ghosts/monsters/youkai from Japanese folklore
-Wu shamans
-Amazing, gorgeous architecture
-Oni fortresses
-Gritty, rough-and-tumble ninjas who live tough lives and wield strange, subtle powerThings I don't want to see:
-Pokemon
-Cuteness
-Anything you'd find on a 4chan messageboard
-Sun Wukong the monkey king (who was ruined for me by the Dragon Ball anime)
-Ridiculous ninjas who do stupid hand gestures to accomplish over-the-top magic
Agreed.
Things I'd like to see in Tian Xia:
-Fox spirits
-Wise dragon gods
-Wandering swordsmen seeking to perfect their art (preferably blind)
-All the creative, awesome ghosts/monsters/youkai from Japanese folklore
-Wu shamans
-Amazing, gorgeous architecture
-Oni fortresses
-Gritty, rough-and-tumble ninjas who live tough lives and wield strange, subtle powerThings I don't want to see:
-Pokemon
-Cuteness
-Anything you'd find on a 4chan messageboard
-Sun Wukong the monkey king (who was ruined for me by the Dragon Ball anime)
-Ridiculous ninjas who do stupid hand gestures to accomplish over-the-top magic
If done properly I would not mind a Monkey King.
I also do not want it done as if Japan is the only oriental region. China is takes the most region come on folks.
Things I'd like to see in Tian Xia:
-Fox spirits
-Wise dragon gods
-Wandering swordsmen seeking to perfect their art (preferably blind)
-All the creative, awesome ghosts/monsters/youkai from Japanese folklore
-Wu shamans
-Amazing, gorgeous architecture
-Oni fortresses
-Gritty, rough-and-tumble ninjas who live tough lives and wield strange, subtle powerThings I don't want to see:
-Pokemon
-Cuteness
-Anything you'd find on a 4chan messageboard
-Sun Wukong the monkey king (who was ruined for me by the Dragon Ball anime)
-Ridiculous ninjas who do stupid hand gestures to accomplish over-the-top magic
I support any attempt to squeeze a pseudo Di Renjie reference into Pathfinder.
As for the above list, I don't mean to be rude, but that comes across as banal... (Okay. That was probably plenty rude.) That list is basically just a slightly more nuanced variant on the Stereotypical Western pseudo-"Asian" fantasy.
We're not just one country marked Asia.
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I for one wouldn't mind seeing Sun Wukong. Journey to the West (and the irrepressible Monkey) should absolutely be inspirations for the setting.
As for cuteness, the Golarion Goblins are adorable, why can't Tien have adorable little monsters too?
If we don't have pokemon what will SUMMONERS get to do? (Note: I'm playing a summoner in Legacy of Fire named Ash Q'Asheem).
In conclusion, just as The Middle Sea region is a melting pot for EVERYTHING in Europe and North Africa, so too should the Tien book.
Oh no, that wasn't rude at all. You'll have to forgive me for being a mindless American racist and stating what I'd like to see in an Oriental setting. I'm simply too blinded by my own ethnocentrism to see how offensive dragons, samurai, ninjas, oni, and other cultural icons are to you.My deepest and most heartfelt appologies.
Heh. No tone, no context. Joys of the internet.
I'm just going to try to explain where I'm coming from. It's not so much the "What You Like" that gets to me.
It's the fact that your write off of a major cultural myth based entirely on a single (bad?) anime. It's like concluding the American Declaration of Independence was a worthless treasure map based on it's presentation in "National Treasure".
I could conclude just as easily that I don't want "Pansy dress-wearing Mages who do stupid hand gestures to accomplish pointlessly understated magic" if I didn't like Merlin in Arthurian legends.
I'm not trying to shackle your creativity, but seriously...
It's annoying to me. There are less offensive ways to express what you don't like.
EDIT: Plus, you're probably drawing misplaced ire from work. For that, I apologise.
I'm very excited to see this book released...
After the Faction guide mistreatment of the "Kusari-gama" obviously Japan centric faction, but in the very front of the description was linked to Tian Xia...the Chinese area...In my game I'll change it to be something else, including changing the "Sensei" title to "Sifu." I know that the Campaign Setting was a rough for the Tian Xia area...but....at lease make sure the areas that were given corresponding feel are treated correctly.
From listening to the Pathfinder podcast it sounds like a lot of the "classes" might be handled by archeytpes. Which sounds GREAT to me.
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Creative Director
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I'm very excited to see this book released...
After the Faction guide mistreatment of the "Kusari-gama" obviously Japan centric faction, but in the very front of the description was linked to Tian Xia...the Chinese area...In my game I'll change it to be something else, including changing the "Sensei" title to "Sifu." I know that the Campaign Setting was a rough for the Tian Xia area...but....at lease make sure the areas that were given corresponding feel are treated correctly.
From listening to the Pathfinder podcast it sounds like a lot of the "classes" might be handled by archeytpes. Which sounds GREAT to me.
Tian Xia is the name of the entire continent, the one that INCLUDES Minkai, which is our Japan analogue. Up until 100 years ago, Tian Xia was ruled by that nation, but said nation collapsed a century ago and now the continent, while still named Tian Xia, no longer has a single empire ruling it.
So when the Kusari-gama is said to be linked to "Tian Xia" that's not effectively linking it to "China." It's linking it to "Asia."
For now, the Inner Sea view of Tian Xia is fraught with misconceptions and confusions. We'll be clearing up what's going on over there soon enough, though.
Any words on my comments and questions about the Dragons of the Celestial Host?
(Sorry. I know I'm annoying... I'm on the edge of my seat for any word!)
:)
I'm very excited to see this book released...
After the Faction guide mistreatment of the "Kusari-gama" obviously Japan centric faction, but in the very front of the description was linked to Tian Xia...the Chinese area...In my game I'll change it to be something else, including changing the "Sensei" title to "Sifu." I know that the Campaign Setting was a rough for the Tian Xia area...but....at lease make sure the areas that were given corresponding feel are treated correctly.
From listening to the Pathfinder podcast it sounds like a lot of the "classes" might be handled by archeytpes. Which sounds GREAT to me.
Tian Xia is the name of the entire continent, the one that INCLUDES Minkai, which is our Japan analogue. Up until 100 years ago, Tian Xia was ruled by that nation, but said nation collapsed a century ago and now the continent, while still named Tian Xia, no longer has a single empire ruling it.
So when the Kusari-gama is said to be linked to "Tian Xia" that's not effectively linking it to "China." It's linking it to "Asia."
For now, the Inner Sea view of Tian Xia is fraught with misconceptions and confusions. We'll be clearing up what's going on over there soon enough, though.
Thanks for clearing that up James. As I said I'm really looking forward to that book.