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APG - Trick Shot ( Sunder)


Rules Questions


An ability for the Fighter's Archer:

Quote:


Trick Shot (Ex): At 3rd level, an archer can choose one of
the following combat maneuvers or actions: disarm, feint, or
sunder. He can perform this action with a bow against any
target within 30 feet, with a –4 penalty to his CMB. Every
four levels beyond 3rd, he may choose an additional trick
shot to learn. These maneuvers use up arrows as normal [...]

Pag 174 of the Core Rulebook (about damaging objects):

Quote:


Ranged Weapon Damage: Objects take half damage from
ranged weapons (unless the weapon is a siege engine or
something similar—
see page 434). Divide the damage
dealt by 2 before applying the object’s hardness.

I wonder if the natural penalties that are applied to ranged attacks when trying to damage objects were taken in account when Trick Shot was written. I would think that the "half damage" rule should not apply to characters with Trick Shot ability to make Sunder effective.


PathfinderEspañol wrote:

An ability for the Fighter's Archer:

Quote:


Trick Shot (Ex): At 3rd level, an archer can choose one of
the following combat maneuvers or actions: disarm, feint, or
sunder. He can perform this action with a bow against any
target within 30 feet, with a –4 penalty to his CMB. Every
four levels beyond 3rd, he may choose an additional trick
shot to learn. These maneuvers use up arrows as normal [...]

Pag 174 of the Core Rulebook (about damaging objects):

Quote:


Ranged Weapon Damage: Objects take half damage from
ranged weapons (unless the weapon is a siege engine or
something similar—
see page 434). Divide the damage
dealt by 2 before applying the object’s hardness.
I wonder if the natural penalties that are applied to ranged attacks when trying to damage objects were taken in account when Trick Shot was written. I would think that the "half damage" rule should not apply to characters with Trick Shot ability to make Sunder effective.

I think the penalty would apply, but I don't have to apg yet so i'm not sure.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

I see nothing that would imply those penalties are negated.

Being able to sunder at range is very powerful.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Adamantine arrows could be used to negate hardness, also you could get a spell storing bow and store shatter, break, heat metal, or a direct damage spell to help deal more damage. Although direct damage spells would have to deal with the fact that energy damage is halved for objects. Though this is further complicated by the fact that spell storing specifically says that the spell triggers when a creature is damaged, not a weapon. Something else to remember is that with a magic bow I believe the arrows would overcome hardness as though they were adamantine once the enhancement bonus hit's +4 (I think, I cannot find that chart and it may only overcome DR not hardness).

Edit: found the chart, it does not overcome hardness with an increased enhancement bonus.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Adamantine arrows would help with hardness, but they would still do half damage. At least this way they deal some damage!


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
Adamantine arrows would help with hardness, but they would still do half damage. At least this way they deal some damage!

Yep, It would be the only way. Archers usually hit a lot but have a moderate damage output, halving damage and then aplying Hardness would make the standard arrows useless.

Good call on the Adamantine arrows guys, I have to remember it.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

I would certainly ask your GM about recovering broken adamantine arrows. I mean...unless you're shooting adamantine there should be no reason those arrowheads are damaged. Would make putting ranks into Craft (bower) useful for making new shafts for them.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
I would certainly ask your GM about recovering broken adamantine arrows. I mean...unless you're shooting adamantine there should be no reason those arrowheads are damaged. Would make putting ranks into Craft (bower) useful for making new shafts for them.

Just to be safe, I'd get Durable Arrows (from Elves of Golarion). They're more expensive than normal ones, but once you're putting adamantine on, it'd be a negligible increase to make them durable too.


Or use the Abundant Ammunition spell. It specifically says "non-magic" and lists Masterwork ammunition as the example.


Clustered Shots helps too (if your GM allows it) but really the ranged sunder thing is a trap even without the half damage. Anything worth sundering is going to be magical and thus you will need to have a high +X magic bow in order to sunder it AND it will have more hp than the character wielding/ wearing it.

I tried it once with adamantine ammo and without the half damage rule on an equivalent CR character's armor and got a great big "MEH" out of every attempt.

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