paizo.com Recent Posts in Break - the make a wizard cry spell?paizo.com Recent Posts in Break - the make a wizard cry spell?2012-11-15T22:45:51Z2012-11-15T22:45:51ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?rat_ bastard (alias of thomas nelson)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#492012-04-22T04:08:52Z2012-04-22T04:08:52Z<p>Which ornament on the Christmas tree are you targeting with your spell?</p>
<p>whats more "breaking" a bo does not effect it as bo, it makes it a crappier wand/ring/weapon/etc but the spell has to be successful twice.</p>Which ornament on the Christmas tree are you targeting with your spell?
whats more "breaking" a bo does not effect it as bo, it makes it a crappier wand/ring/weapon/etc but the spell has to be successful twice.rat_ bastard (alias of thomas nelson)2012-04-22T04:08:52ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?master arminashttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#482012-04-22T03:49:07Z2012-04-22T03:49:07Z<p>So, if the bonded item is an amulet, wear it under your shirt and robes instead of outside. If it is a ring, wear <i>gloves</i>. If you picks a weapon, or a staff, or a wand . . . well them's the breaks. Frankly, I have never seen anyone in my ground take bonded item—they all would rather have a familiar.</p>
<p>Master Arminas</p>So, if the bonded item is an amulet, wear it under your shirt and robes instead of outside. If it is a ring, wear gloves. If you picks a weapon, or a staff, or a wand . . . well them's the breaks. Frankly, I have never seen anyone in my ground take bonded item--they all would rather have a familiar.
Master Arminasmaster arminas2012-04-22T03:49:07ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Cheapyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#472012-04-22T03:42:03Z2012-04-22T03:42:03Z<p>Don't see what that would help with. The only issue is when people try to give advice.</p>Don't see what that would help with. The only issue is when people try to give advice.Cheapy2012-04-22T03:42:03ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Mergyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#462012-04-22T03:27:01Z2012-04-22T03:27:01Z<p>Would it be possible to lock and archive threads that haven't had a post for over a year?</p>Would it be possible to lock and archive threads that haven't had a post for over a year?Mergy2012-04-22T03:27:01ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?King Duncanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#452012-04-22T03:17:44Z2012-04-22T03:17:44Z<p>I think all the spells mentioned here are fine except one thing.</p>
<p>Break is transmutation and fortitude because you're "polymorphing" the item into a broken one (regardless of HP, hardness).</p>
<p>Mending takes a long time to cast, but it's 0th level, don't expect flowers. You can freely repair all your broken stuff during down time.</p>
<p>Shatter is evocation because you're creating sound to break things, hence why it deals damage dice. My issue is why would it be a will save? It should be fort (object toughs it out) or refl (you dodge the effect), will makes no sense.</p>
<p>If Break worries you that much, develop a "quick mend" spell that restores an item in 1 rd, as a first level spell.</p>I think all the spells mentioned here are fine except one thing.
Break is transmutation and fortitude because you're "polymorphing" the item into a broken one (regardless of HP, hardness).
Mending takes a long time to cast, but it's 0th level, don't expect flowers. You can freely repair all your broken stuff during down time.
Shatter is evocation because you're creating sound to break things, hence why it deals damage dice. My issue is why would it be a will save? It should be fort (object...King Duncan2012-04-22T03:17:44ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?AvalonXQhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#442010-09-03T14:02:17Z2010-09-03T14:02:17Z<p>So is there a consensus at to whether or not Break actually reduces an item's HP? Does it just add the broken condition to an item that is otherwise still considered at full HP?</p>So is there a consensus at to whether or not Break actually reduces an item's HP? Does it just add the broken condition to an item that is otherwise still considered at full HP?AvalonXQ2010-09-03T14:02:17ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Benchak the Nightstalker (Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#432010-09-03T03:56:54Z2010-09-03T03:56:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Abraham spalding wrote:</div><blockquote><p> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....</p>
<p>Ok if "Break" is "Broken" then "Mending" is even worse.</p>
<p>You cast break. My item gains the broken condition. I use mending I restore HP to the item, since the item never lost HP (merely gained the condition) it is automatically "not broken"</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rules wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Items lose the broken condition if the spell restores the object to half its original hit points or higher. </blockquote>I'll trade you your 1st level spell and standard action, for my 0th level spell and a standard action until you run out of spells, sure — I'll consider that a fair trade. </blockquote><p>Er, not quite.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">PRD wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Mending
<br />
School transmutation; Level bard 0, cleric 0, druid 0, sorcerer/wizard 0
<br />
Casting Time <b>10 minutes</b>...
<br />
</blockquote><p>I still don't think Break is broken, but you can't really counter it with Mending, at least not in combat.Abraham spalding wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Ok if "Break" is "Broken" then "Mending" is even worse.
You cast break. My item gains the broken condition. I use mending I restore HP to the item, since the item never lost HP (merely gained the condition) it is automatically "not broken"
Rules wrote:
Items lose the broken condition if the spell restores the object to half its original hit points or higher.
I'll trade you your 1st level spell and standard action, for my 0th level spell and a...Benchak the Nightstalker (Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8)2010-09-03T03:56:54ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Abraham spaldinghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#422014-02-20T18:20:33Z2010-09-03T03:10:39Z<p>HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....</p>
<p>Ok if "Break" is "Broken" then "Mending" is even worse.</p>
<p>You cast break. My item gains the broken condition. I use mending I restore HP to the item, since the item never lost HP (merely gained the condition) it is automatically "not broken"</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rules wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Items lose the broken condition if the spell restores the object to half its original hit points or higher. </blockquote><p>I'll trade you your 1st level spell and standard action, for my 0th level spell and a standard action until you run out of spells, sure — I'll consider that a fair trade.HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Ok if "Break" is "Broken" then "Mending" is even worse.
You cast break. My item gains the broken condition. I use mending I restore HP to the item, since the item never lost HP (merely gained the condition) it is automatically "not broken"
Rules wrote:Items lose the broken condition if the spell restores the object to half its original hit points or higher.
I'll trade you your 1st level spell and standard action, for my 0th level spell and a standard action until you...Abraham spalding2010-09-03T03:10:39ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Ice Titan (alias of SecSeibzehn)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#412010-09-03T01:11:27Z2010-09-03T01:11:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">PathfinderEspañol wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Btw, can someone explain why Shatter is an Evocation spell and Break is a Transmutation spell?
</p>
Game balance explanation please, I can imagine the rest. Does the transmutation school suck so much that it needs new damage dealing spells? </blockquote><p>Shatter is creating sounds or forces that have the capacity to break brittle items. Creation of the elements or forces is generally evocation.
<p>Break is changing an item and making it broken. Changing items is generally transmutation.</p>PathfinderEspañol wrote:Btw, can someone explain why Shatter is an Evocation spell and Break is a Transmutation spell?
Game balance explanation please, I can imagine the rest. Does the transmutation school suck so much that it needs new damage dealing spells?
Shatter is creating sounds or forces that have the capacity to break brittle items. Creation of the elements or forces is generally evocation. Break is changing an item and making it broken. Changing items is generally transmutation.Ice Titan (alias of SecSeibzehn)2010-09-03T01:11:27ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Seriously Broken (alias of Mothman)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#402010-09-03T01:10:43Z2010-09-03T01:10:43Z<p>This spell make Rocking Horse cry too.</p>This spell make Rocking Horse cry too.Seriously Broken (alias of Mothman)2010-09-03T01:10:43ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?skrahenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#392010-09-03T01:02:15Z2010-09-03T01:02:15Z<p>I have no problem with break.
<br />
look at what other first level spells do when you fail a save.
<br />
charm person—>combat effectively takes out at least one opponent.
<br />
grease—>disarm or immobilize, your choice. plus area effect on latter.
<br />
color spray—>blinded, unconscious,and/or stunned.
<br />
worst case scenario is break makes a wizard have to make concentration checks to use spells. i think the other spells above are better at hampering a spellcaster. if they work the caster is 100% likely to not cast on you offensively.
<br />
even if the mage doesn't fix the damaged bonded object with mending,or some such, it heals itself next time he preps spells unless broken.
<br />
i don't see the problem here. you would have to waste two spells, two rounds, and the target has to fail two saves. if it is really a big deal to the mage he could just stash the object on his turn so you don't have line of sight to it after the first casting.</p>I have no problem with break.
look at what other first level spells do when you fail a save.
charm person-->combat effectively takes out at least one opponent.
grease-->disarm or immobilize, your choice. plus area effect on latter.
color spray-->blinded, unconscious,and/or stunned.
worst case scenario is break makes a wizard have to make concentration checks to use spells. i think the other spells above are better at hampering a spellcaster. if they work the caster is 100% likely to not cast...skrahen2010-09-03T01:02:15ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Snapshothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#382010-08-07T03:38:14Z2010-08-07T03:38:14Z<p>I haven't got my APG yet however using the information provided in the previous posts I would like to point out the following.</p>
<p>1: Until the bonded item is enchanted by the owner it is not magical. It is only a MW item. Detect magic would be useless in finding it.</p>
<p>2:Shatter will work on the item until it is enchanted, it however is an evocation [Sonic] effect and would have to bypass hardness.</p>
<p>3:Break: a transformation effect gives the item the broken condition (assuming it takes the item to half HP)(Nothing above indicates the item takes damage just gains the damaged condition). Simply casting mending removes this condition. </p>
<p>This doesn't seem broken at all. Pardon the pun.</p>I haven't got my APG yet however using the information provided in the previous posts I would like to point out the following.
1: Until the bonded item is enchanted by the owner it is not magical. It is only a MW item. Detect magic would be useless in finding it.
2:Shatter will work on the item until it is enchanted, it however is an evocation [Sonic] effect and would have to bypass hardness.
3:Break: a transformation effect gives the item the broken condition (assuming it takes the item...Snapshot2010-08-07T03:38:14ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Caedwyrhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#372010-08-07T03:04:35Z2010-08-07T03:04:33Z<p>Spells being placed in thematically appropriate schools used to bother me, until a poster here pointed out that the same effects could be replicated in many different ways, and the school a spell is in just represents one way. Spell saves are a little more tightly tied to their fluff, but I could see the same argument be made for those as well.</p>Spells being placed in thematically appropriate schools used to bother me, until a poster here pointed out that the same effects could be replicated in many different ways, and the school a spell is in just represents one way. Spell saves are a little more tightly tied to their fluff, but I could see the same argument be made for those as well.Caedwyr2010-08-07T03:04:33ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?0gre (alias of Dennis Baker, Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#362011-08-01T20:25:43Z2010-08-07T02:36:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quandary wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">PathfinderEspañol wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Btw, can someone explain why Shatter is an Evocation spell and Break is a Transmutation spell?
</p>
Game balance explanation please, I can imagine the rest. Does the transmutation school suck so much that it needs new damage dealing spells? </blockquote>Not to mention another spell that arbitrarily changes the Saving Throw target (Shatter´s Will -> Break´s Fort, Telekinesis´ Will -> Enemy Hammer´s Fort) for no reason discernable in the fluff text. I guess at least the arbitrary school could somehow provide a justification for the Saving Throw shift.</blockquote><p>This bugged me also. Everyone was hollering about how 'broken' it was so I didn't get a chance to mention it. Doesn't make sense.Quandary wrote:PathfinderEspañol wrote:Btw, can someone explain why Shatter is an Evocation spell and Break is a Transmutation spell?
Game balance explanation please, I can imagine the rest. Does the transmutation school suck so much that it needs new damage dealing spells?
Not to mention another spell that arbitrarily changes the Saving Throw target (Shatter´s Will -> Break´s Fort, Telekinesis´ Will -> Enemy Hammer´s Fort) for no reason discernable in the fluff text. I guess at least the...0gre (alias of Dennis Baker, Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)2010-08-07T02:36:57ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?wraithstrike (alias of concerro)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#352010-08-07T02:32:20Z2010-08-07T02:32:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">seekerofshadowlight wrote:</div><blockquote> Yeah I am not seeing the issues here. Unless your GM is out to screw ya over this is a non issue. If your GM is out to screw ya over you have more things to worry about then a level 1 spell. </blockquote><p>2nd time in about a two week period. I swear the end of the world is near.
<p>Oh and the thread is over.</p>seekerofshadowlight wrote:Yeah I am not seeing the issues here. Unless your GM is out to screw ya over this is a non issue. If your GM is out to screw ya over you have more things to worry about then a level 1 spell.
2nd time in about a two week period. I swear the end of the world is near. Oh and the thread is over.wraithstrike (alias of concerro)2010-08-07T02:32:20ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?james maissenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#342010-08-07T00:47:00Z2010-08-07T00:47:00Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">ZomB wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Two castings and two failed Fort saves and the most powerful magic item in the party could be destroyed or the wizards bonded item gone. </p>
<p>This doesn't feel right. What am I missing? </blockquote><p>You're talking about a PC failing 2 fort saves.. in most cases failing ONE would mean that they are permanently blind or deaf, nauseated for many rounds like half the rest of the party, are hopping around as a toad, just became a stone lawn ornament, or are DEAD Jim, DEAD!
<p>So it doesn't seem so bad to me.</p>
<p>-James</p>ZomB wrote:Two castings and two failed Fort saves and the most powerful magic item in the party could be destroyed or the wizards bonded item gone.
This doesn't feel right. What am I missing?
You're talking about a PC failing 2 fort saves.. in most cases failing ONE would mean that they are permanently blind or deaf, nauseated for many rounds like half the rest of the party, are hopping around as a toad, just became a stone lawn ornament, or are DEAD Jim, DEAD! So it doesn't seem so bad to...james maissen2010-08-07T00:47:00ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Quandaryhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#332010-08-07T00:12:00Z2010-08-07T00:12:00Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">PathfinderEspañol wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Btw, can someone explain why Shatter is an Evocation spell and Break is a Transmutation spell?
</p>
Game balance explanation please, I can imagine the rest. Does the transmutation school suck so much that it needs new damage dealing spells? </blockquote><p>Not to mention another spell that arbitrarily changes the Saving Throw target (Shatter´s Will -> Break´s Fort, Telekinesis´ Will -> Enemy Hammer´s Fort) for no reason discernable in the fluff text. I guess at least the arbitrary school could somehow provide a justification for the Saving Throw shift.
<p>I think I mentioned on the boards before how we all understand the Backwards Compatable thing, but I really really really wished that we could see MORE consistency or ´rationality´ in things like magic school designations and saving throws. Sadly, it is exactly the opposite. There´s definitely plenty of cool stuff in the APG, but it really seems like it´s gone down the road of WoTC´s 3.x material already.</p>PathfinderEspañol wrote:Btw, can someone explain why Shatter is an Evocation spell and Break is a Transmutation spell?
Game balance explanation please, I can imagine the rest. Does the transmutation school suck so much that it needs new damage dealing spells?
Not to mention another spell that arbitrarily changes the Saving Throw target (Shatter´s Will -> Break´s Fort, Telekinesis´ Will -> Enemy Hammer´s Fort) for no reason discernable in the fluff text. I guess at least the arbitrary school...Quandary2010-08-07T00:12:00ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?seekerofshadowlighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#322010-08-06T22:17:11Z2010-08-06T22:17:11Z<p>Yeah I am not seeing the issues here. Unless your GM is out to screw ya over this is a non issue. If your GM is out to screw ya over you have more things to worry about then a level 1 spell.</p>Yeah I am not seeing the issues here. Unless your GM is out to screw ya over this is a non issue. If your GM is out to screw ya over you have more things to worry about then a level 1 spell.seekerofshadowlight2010-08-06T22:17:11ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Charenderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#312010-08-06T22:04:19Z2010-08-06T22:04:03Z<p>Also, learning the location of auras take 3 rounds of concentration with detect magic.</p>
<p>Round 1, cast detect magic, yes, there is magic present.
<br />
Round 2, concentrate on detect magic, there are 5 aura's present, the strongest aura is weak.
<br />
Round 3, concentrate on detect magic, there is 1 magic aura present on the wizard, it is his ring.
<br />
Round 4, cast break on the ring
<br />
Round 5, cast break on the ring.</p>Also, learning the location of auras take 3 rounds of concentration with detect magic.
Round 1, cast detect magic, yes, there is magic present.
Round 2, concentrate on detect magic, there are 5 aura's present, the strongest aura is weak.
Round 3, concentrate on detect magic, there is 1 magic aura present on the wizard, it is his ring.
Round 4, cast break on the ring
Round 5, cast break on the ring.Charender2010-08-06T22:04:03ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?Kevin Andrew Murphy (Contributor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#302010-08-06T21:12:50Z2010-08-06T21:12:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">0gre wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Sevus wrote:</div><blockquote>2. The Liavek strategy is much more effective for NPCs than it is for PCs. First of all, you're not going to have the wealth to throw around at low levels to deck yourself out in all sorts of gear,</blockquote><p>You see a wizard wearing 10 identical copper rings, half detect as <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicAura.html#magic-aura" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">magic</a> half <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicAura.html#magic-aura" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">do not</a>. You also see a copper headband which is <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicAura.html#magic-aura" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">not magical</a>. As he casts his spell he points his glowing <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/light.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">magic staff</a> at you and a fireball streaks towards the party.
<p>Which one of these items do you target? It could be any or it could be the amulet that you can't see under his tunic. All this would cost about 10sp for a bunch of cheap jewelry.</blockquote><p>Exactly.
<p>And you can make an item permanently detect as magical cheaply by means of another simple spell: Magic Mouth. Just instruct the Magic Mouth on your ring to say "Wow, you don't see that everyday" when simultaneously Hell freezes over and pigs fly.</p>
<p>There, permanent detectable magic aura.</p>0gre wrote:Sevus wrote:2. The Liavek strategy is much more effective for NPCs than it is for PCs. First of all, you're not going to have the wealth to throw around at low levels to deck yourself out in all sorts of gear,
You see a wizard wearing 10 identical copper rings, half detect as magic half do not. You also see a copper headband which is not magical. As he casts his spell he points his glowing magic staff at you and a fireball streaks towards the party. Which one of these items do you...Kevin Andrew Murphy (Contributor)2010-08-06T21:12:03ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?PathfinderEspañolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#292010-08-06T21:08:34Z2010-08-06T21:05:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">PathfinderEspañol wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
what's funny is that I got the exact opposite conclusion that you did with your comparison. Given the two spells, I would much rather memorize RoE, I think break is perfectly fine as is.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Would you cast two RoE spells at a single target instead of casting two break spells at a single target?
<p>For a single use I think everyone agrees that the broken condition is perfectly fine. The acummulated effects is the problem here. Nobody would cast a RoE spell against someone already damaged by one, unless you rolled a 1 in the Strength damage dice or you are a low level spellcaster (lasts 1 round/level). </blockquote><p>Yeah I would because each ray has a partial effect even on a save and if my goal is to nerf whoever it is i'm fighting, I want them taking negatives to their damage they can deal me.
<p>I would especially hit them with a second if I got a six on my first, because if they've already been significantly weakened a second good roll would mean they hit max encumbrance and have even more penalties stacked upon them. </blockquote><p>Wait, a temporal effect from a spell doesn't stack with itself, specially not in the case of RoE. Instead the effect that does the most damage to Strength applies.
</p>
That's why you don't usually use RoE two times over the same foe unless he wins the first save.</p>
<p>"Break" stacks with himself because the description of the spell says so and the effect is instantaneous.</p>lastknightleft wrote:PathfinderEspañol wrote: lastknightleft wrote:
what's funny is that I got the exact opposite conclusion that you did with your comparison. Given the two spells, I would much rather memorize RoE, I think break is perfectly fine as is.
Would you cast two RoE spells at a single target instead of casting two break spells at a single target? For a single use I think everyone agrees that the broken condition is perfectly fine. The acummulated effects is the problem here....PathfinderEspañol2010-08-06T21:05:54ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?lastknightlefthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#282010-08-06T20:30:00Z2010-08-06T20:28:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">PathfinderEspañol wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
what's funny is that I got the exact opposite conclusion that you did with your comparison. Given the two spells, I would much rather memorize RoE, I think break is perfectly fine as is.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Would you cast two RoE spells at a single target instead of casting two break spells at a single target?
<p>For a single use I think everyone agrees that the broken condition is perfectly fine. The acummulated effects is the problem here. Nobody would cast a RoE spell against someone already damaged by one, unless you rolled a 1 in the Strength damage dice or you are a low level spellcaster (lasts 1 round/level). </blockquote><p>Yeah I would because each ray has a partial effect even on a save and if my goal is to nerf whoever it is i'm fighting, I want them taking negatives to their damage they can deal me.
<p>I would especially hit them with a second if I got a six on my first, because if they've already been significantly weakened a second good roll would mean they hit max encumbrance and have even more penalties stacked upon them.</p>PathfinderEspañol wrote:lastknightleft wrote:
what's funny is that I got the exact opposite conclusion that you did with your comparison. Given the two spells, I would much rather memorize RoE, I think break is perfectly fine as is.
Would you cast two RoE spells at a single target instead of casting two break spells at a single target? For a single use I think everyone agrees that the broken condition is perfectly fine. The acummulated effects is the problem here. Nobody would cast a RoE...lastknightleft2010-08-06T20:28:25ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?0gre (alias of Dennis Baker, Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#272011-08-01T20:25:43Z2010-08-06T20:09:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Sevus wrote:</div><blockquote>2. The Liavek strategy is much more effective for NPCs than it is for PCs. First of all, you're not going to have the wealth to throw around at low levels to deck yourself out in all sorts of gear,</blockquote><p>You see a wizard wearing 10 identical copper rings, half detect as <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicAura.html#magic-aura" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">magic</a> half <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicAura.html#magic-aura" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">do not</a>. You also see a copper headband which is <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicAura.html#magic-aura" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">not magical</a>. As he casts his spell he points his glowing <a href="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/light.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">magic staff</a> at you and a fireball streaks towards the party.
<p>Which one of these items do you target? It could be any or it could be the amulet that you can't see under his tunic. All this would cost about 10sp for a bunch of cheap jewelry.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>and secondly, the GM if s/he really wants to use the spell that way is more than capable of simply metagaming against the wizard and having the NPC make a "lucky guess."</blockquote><p>Why would anyone choose to game with a GM who is a this much of a jerk? He could likewise have his NPCs and monsters always make a 'lucky guess' where the invisible guy is. Put pit traps only down the hallways where the rogue forgets to search. etc... Game rules can't fix a-hole.Sevus wrote:2. The Liavek strategy is much more effective for NPCs than it is for PCs. First of all, you're not going to have the wealth to throw around at low levels to deck yourself out in all sorts of gear,
You see a wizard wearing 10 identical copper rings, half detect as magic half do not. You also see a copper headband which is not magical. As he casts his spell he points his glowing magic staff at you and a fireball streaks towards the party. Which one of these items do you target? It...0gre (alias of Dennis Baker, Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)2010-08-06T20:09:29ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?GoldenOpalhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#262010-08-06T19:58:35Z2010-08-06T19:58:35Z<p>Broken? No. At least two rounds casting save or suck is risky. Besides, it is a rare occasion that destroying one magic item will cause a TPK. Nerf a character for a while? Yeah, but that’s why it is always good to have a backup plan. ;) </p>
<p>Evil of a GM to use on a wizard’s bonded item at low levels? Probably, but it depends. If the bonded object gets destroyed, the wizard’s concentration check DC to cast is 20 + the spell’s level until he/she gets a new one. In the right situation this spell could break a PC, but if the GM wants to be evil… it’s hard to blame the spell for that.</p>Broken? No. At least two rounds casting save or suck is risky. Besides, it is a rare occasion that destroying one magic item will cause a TPK. Nerf a character for a while? Yeah, but that’s why it is always good to have a backup plan. ;)
Evil of a GM to use on a wizard’s bonded item at low levels? Probably, but it depends. If the bonded object gets destroyed, the wizard’s concentration check DC to cast is 20 + the spell’s level until he/she gets a new one. In the right situation this spell...GoldenOpal2010-08-06T19:58:35ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Break - the make a wizard cry spell?TriOmegaZerohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l4h5?Break-the-make-a-wizard-cry-spell#252010-08-06T18:53:46Z2010-08-06T18:53:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">PathfinderEspañol wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Btw, can someone explain why Shatter is an Evocation spell and Break is a Transmutation spell?
</p>
Game balance explanation please, I can imagine the rest. Does the transmutation school suck so much that it needs new damage dealing spells? </blockquote><p>Arbitrary school divisions.PathfinderEspañol wrote:Btw, can someone explain why Shatter is an Evocation spell and Break is a Transmutation spell?
Game balance explanation please, I can imagine the rest. Does the transmutation school suck so much that it needs new damage dealing spells?
Arbitrary school divisions.TriOmegaZero2010-08-06T18:53:46Z