Ok,
Believe it or not, I'm actually playing in a game (you can all stop gasping now).
So, my character is as follows :
Catfolk Urban Ranger with Natural Weapon fighting style (the catfolk we're using have two 1d4 natural claw attacks). We rolled stats (4d6, drop lowest) and we're 5th level (max hp 1st 3 levels, roll normally after). Here's what I have so far.
STR: 18
DEX: 14
CON: 16
INT: 14
WIS: 13
CHA: 13
Traits :
Circus Raised: +1 Acrobatics, Acrobatics is class skill
Armor Trained: Reduce ACP of armor by -1
For skills I maxed out Acrobatics, Perception, Disable Device, Knowledge (local), linguistics, and stealth, and put points into Sense Motive, Intimidate, Knowledge(geography), swim, climb, and basically every other class skill.
For class abilities :
Trapfinding, Hunter's Bond (Companions), Favored Enemy (Humans +4, Goblins +2), Favored Community (Imperial Capital), Wild Empathy (And honestly, I have no earthly idea why an Urban Ranger still get's Wild Empathy, this should have been traded out for something else).
For Feats :
Improved Natural Attack (1d4 -> 1d6), Aspect of the Beast (Sight, giving 30 feet of darkvision), Dodge, Mobility
Equipment : Mithral Breastplate, Amulet of Might Fists (Corrosive), MW Thieves Tools, various sundries, noble outfit, crystals of life drinking.
Now, since we know the basics, I am planning on taking Eldritch Claws at 6th level (BTW: There's a typo in the Natural Weapon fighting style that calls this Eldritch Fangs, haha).
What I'm building him toward is an urban guide/bodyguard/translator. I think I have a pretty good start so far. What I'm looking for is suggestions on ways to increase his damage output at higher levels (AOMF's above +1 is not an option, the price is just outrageous. I do plan on getting a few more +1's with different abilities on them, like disruption and flaming or frosting). This is my first time playing in a couple of years and I'm out of practice building a single character for long term play, most of my building is as the GM for one or two games as NPCs or villains.
I think I'll need to take Rending Claws at 7th, that would add 1d6 to the second claw attack if I hit with both. Weapon Focus (Claws) would help as well I think. I might put eldritch claws off, as the AOMF makes my claws magic already, just not silver.
Favored Defense is a possibility, but I will have to see if it's worth it.
I think I'll need to take Rending Claws at 7th, that would add 1d6 to the second claw attack if I hit with both. Weapon Focus (Claws) would help as well I think. I might put eldritch claws off, as the AOMF makes my claws magic already, just not silver.
Favored Defense is a possibility, but I will have to see if it's worth it.
Keep in mind that the AOMF will not let you hit creatures that can only be hit with a +1 weapon or better if you have it enhance your claws with acid. Forgot about that last night.
Keep in mind that the AOMF will not let you hit creatures that can only be hit with a +1 weapon or better if you have it enhance your claws with acid. Forgot about that last night.I think I'll need to take Rending Claws at 7th, that would add 1d6 to the second claw attack if I hit with both. Weapon Focus (Claws) would help as well I think. I might put eldritch claws off, as the AOMF makes my claws magic already, just not silver.
Favored Defense is a possibility, but I will have to see if it's worth it.
True, and I knew this. But, at 5th level I think we're unlikely to encounter anything with more than 5/something and currently my minimum damage per hit is 6 (1+4+1). So, I'm not too worried at the moment. By the time we start running into things with magical DR regularly, I'll have the eldritch claws feat and have both magical and silver claws.
can a creature who's claws count as magic effect incoporeal creatures with claw attacks, or do they have to be +1?
I think they have to be +1, or ghost touch. Just magical won't do it.
QOshea and I worked out that a similar effect as knuckle dusters would work for this character. Basically fingerless chainmail gloves that, when enchanted, confer the bonuses to his claws. So instead of the AOMFs with Acid, I'll be doing a pair of MW gloves (made as if they were mw gauntlets), each enchanted seperately like weapons.
I think they have to be +1, or ghost touch. Just magical won't do it.
QOshea and I worked out that a similar effect as knuckle dusters would work for this character. Basically fingerless chainmail gloves that, when enchanted, confer the bonuses to his claws. So instead of the AOMFs with Acid, I'll be doing a pair of MW gloves (made as if they were mw gauntlets), each enchanted seperately like weapons.
Had another thought a few minutes ago. I know, run and hide.
Someone with claws could get the claws enameled / engraved with mithril or adamantine for decoration and then get them enchanted.
I think they have to be +1, or ghost touch. Just magical won't do it.
QOshea and I worked out that a similar effect as knuckle dusters would work for this character. Basically fingerless chainmail gloves that, when enchanted, confer the bonuses to his claws. So instead of the AOMFs with Acid, I'll be doing a pair of MW gloves (made as if they were mw gauntlets), each enchanted seperately like weapons.
Had another thought a few minutes ago. I know, run and hide.
Someone with claws could get the claws enameled / engraved with mithril or adamantine for decoration and then get them enchanted.
Yeah, but then you're back to the same issue as getting tattoo's on the palms of your hands. It's X forever. There are advantages to that, you can't be disarmed (unless your literally disarmed), but you can't change out what you use based on what happens to you (so if I make ghost touch for example on my claws that way and silver, then we end up fighting golems regularly that need adamantine then those permanent enchantments are worthless).
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can a creature who's claws count as magic effect incoporeal creatures with claw attacks, or do they have to be +1?I think they have to be +1, or ghost touch. Just magical won't do it.
i quit bein lazy and looked up the universal monster rules
"Incorporeal (Ex)
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons..."
so it does work. good to know.
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Remember that your companions bond lasts one round for a bonus of +2 to hit and damage on a single opponent. From the end of your turn to the beginning, as a move action, that doesn't benefit you in any way. You may want to take an animal companion instead-- having a large tiger or wolf who you can flank with is a lot more useful in the long run. If it's for RP reasons, I would still suggest even the worst animal companion over 1 round hunter's bond.
Improved natural attack is a net difference of 1 damage. I highly suggest dumping it for power attack instead.
I recommend against eldritch claws as well.
The curse and blessing of natural weapons is that you're permanently maxed out at 2 attacks unless you spontaneously generate a bite or a slam, but you never have to worry about TWF penalties. Power attack and weapon focus should be what you're shooting for right now. Max out your to-hit. Gain damage bonuses. Profit!
Since you use the same attack bonus, you can rely on your iterative fairly well, which means until ~11 or so you'll be keeping up with other high BAB characters. After 11, you're going to fall behind a lot if you're partying with many full BAB characters. There's really nothing that can stop that, so you need to maximize the amount of times you hit. Easy enough with full BAB on both claws.
1) Try to cast magic fang on your weapons before fights; this makes you break DR/magic. Until 10th, magic fang is your go-to spell. At level 11 or so, you should have enough 3rd level spell slots to put a 7-hour greater magic fang on both of your claws for a +2 enhancement bonus on each (+3 at 12). Do this. It's way worth it to use these spells to enchant your own weapons.
Amulet of mighty fists into a holy or elemental bonus as soon as possible, ignoring enhancement bonuses on your neck. Go holy if your DM often uses bad guys who are evil. Otherwise, amulet of mighty fists into two elemental powers and then activate both at once to stack up the damage.
Something like, at level 11 or so, you'd attack at a +17/+17 for 1d4+13+2d6. 22 average damage per hit with a pretty high chance of hitting on both attacks, so generally 44 damage per round... a 2h fighter could put out +18/+13 for 2d6+20, avg. 27-54-ish per round with a lower chance to hit, and a TWF could do +17/+17/+12/+12 for 1d6+13 for avg. 16 to 32 per hit, max 64 for a round. So, you'd stack up well.
Hey Ice Titan,
thanks for the input. I'd forgotten that the Hunter's Bond was wisdom based. I was thinking it was based off ranger level for some stupid reason.
Hmm, yeah, the hunter's bond isn't really all that nice. I'd been trying to avoid an animal companion. I may have to pull out the 3.5 PHBII and use the 'distracting attack' mechanic instead, making everyone I hit be considered flanked to all my allies. Either that or I'm going to have to bite the bullet and take an animal companion.
My GM let me trade out spells for enhanced movement (So, instead of spells, I get 10 feet of movement at 5th level, and +10 feet at 10th, 15th, and 20th). So magic fang and greater magic fang are strictly 'someone cast on me' spells, so I don't want to depend on those.
The problem I have with AOMFs, which is the same one everyone else has with it, is that it's only cost effective if you have 3 or more natural attacks. If you only have two, it's a sink of money. For the same cost as a +2 AOMF I can afford roughly 4 +2 weapons. I'm not above taking the hit on functionality to match the concept, but I hate doing so quite that much.
Hey Ice Titan,
thanks for the input. I'd forgotten that the Hunter's Bond was wisdom based. I was thinking it was based off ranger level for some stupid reason.Hmm, yeah, the hunter's bond isn't really all that nice. I'd been trying to avoid an animal companion. I may have to pull out the 3.5 PHBII and use the 'distracting attack' mechanic instead, making everyone I hit be considered flanked to all my allies. Either that or I'm going to have to bite the bullet and take an animal companion.
That's a good idea. Either way, companions bond or w/e is b!@+#!%s and it's only there to make you disappointed.
My GM let me trade out spells for enhanced movement (So, instead of spells, I get 10 feet of movement at 5th level, and +10 feet at 10th, 15th, and 20th). So magic fang and greater magic fang are strictly 'someone cast on me' spells, so I don't want to depend on those.
... Why? I'm really curious. Longstrider the 1st level spell gives you a +10 enhancement bonus to speed for 5 hours from the outset of your game, and it's replicable by a magical item. Ranger spells do not come in convenient boot format. I wouldn't give them up, especially since you kind of need your self buff spells to pare up at late late levels, but that's just me.
The problem I have with AOMFs, which is the same one everyone else has with it, is that it's only cost effective if you have 3 or more natural attacks. If you only have two, it's a sink of money. For the same cost as a +2 AOMF I can afford roughly 4 +2 weapons. I'm not above taking the hit on functionality to match the concept, but I hate doing so quite that much.
You just gotta bite the bullet, really. It has pros and cons.
My GM let me trade out spells for enhanced movement (So, instead of spells, I get 10 feet of movement at 5th level, and +10 feet at 10th, 15th, and 20th). So magic fang and greater magic fang are strictly 'someone cast on me' spells, so I don't want to depend on those.
... Why? I'm really curious. Longstrider the 1st level spell gives you a +10 enhancement bonus to speed for 5 hours from the outset of your game, and it's replicable by a magical item. Ranger spells do not come in convenient boot format. I wouldn't give them up, especially since you kind of need your self buff spells to pare up at late late levels, but that's just me.
I'm really trying to go for a gruff city guide type character, and casting spells just doesn't fit with it. Basically, I want a guy who does magic only when he has to to keep up (one reason I will probably end up taking eldritch claws eventually, able to handle magic without doing magic). So for the concept I'd rather have enhanced movement naturally than have to rely on spells.
This is a very self reliant type of guy, the magic items he uses are geared towards keeping himself and his client going, not in doing fancy stuff. The less magic he has to rely on the better.
On top of that, honestly, ranger's don't get all that much magic in the first place. So it was a decent fit.
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My GM let me trade out spells for enhanced movement (So, instead of spells, I get 10 feet of movement at 5th level, and +10 feet at 10th, 15th, and 20th). So magic fang and greater magic fang are strictly 'someone cast on me' spells, so I don't want to depend on those...
I'm really trying to go for a gruff city guide type character, and casting spells just doesn't fit with it. Basically, I want a guy who does magic only when he has to to keep up (one reason I will probably end up taking eldritch claws eventually, able to handle magic without doing magic). So for the concept I'd rather have enhanced movement naturally than have to rely on spells.
This is a very self reliant type of guy, the magic items he uses are geared towards keeping himself and his client going, not in doing fancy stuff. The less magic he has to rely on the better.
On top of that, honestly, ranger's don't get all that much magic in the first place. So it was a decent fit.
If you have access to Kobold Quarterly #11, it's got a Pathfinder Spell-less Ranger. In exchange for spells it picks up faster movement at 5th, a sneak-attack like damage vs. favored enemies, and some Ranger talents. I like it a lot. I actually play a spell-less urban ranger in Council of Thieves. He's great in his environment and seriously gimped out of it, but that's the guy I wanted to create.
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If you have access to Kobold Quarterly #11, it's got a Pathfinder Spell-less Ranger. In exchange for spells it picks up faster movement at 5th, a sneak-attack like damage vs. favored enemies, and some Ranger talents. I like it a lot. I actually play a spell-less urban ranger in Council of Thieves. He's great in his environment and seriously gimped out of it, but that's the guy I wanted to create.
Thanks, I don't have access to it, but I might try to find one. Is it electronic only, or printed only, or both? That sounds like exactly what I want.
Yeah, thought about that after I posted. :) I bought 11 and 7.
The spell-less ranger looks like exactly what I was looking for. A couple of the abilities will have to be minorly tweaked to work with the Urban Ranger (allowing the speed increase to be in favored communities instead of favored terrain, for example, but that's not a stretch). Other than that, it's just about perfect for what I was looking for.
Now if I could just get rid of the animal companion for something more worth while. :) Looks like I'll have to take that one though. The flanking thing just isn't quite what I want either. Also wish I could find something to replace Wild Empathy with, it just doesn't fit an urban ranger. :)
Now if I could just get rid of the animal companion for something more worth while. :) Looks like I'll have to take that one though. The flanking thing just isn't quite what I want either. Also wish I could find something to replace Wild Empathy with, it just doesn't fit an urban ranger. :)
If you took an Urban themed type animal companion, such as a plain dog or perhaps work with your GM to keep a smaller sized bird or rat for scouting purposes, that could work. And with the smaller animals you could keep them in your pack and never bother with them.
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Now if I could just get rid of the animal companion for something more worth while. :) Looks like I'll have to take that one though. The flanking thing just isn't quite what I want either. Also wish I could find something to replace Wild Empathy with, it just doesn't fit an urban ranger. :)
I never got this part. I don't see why people think that animal companions are a hassle. Yeah it's another character sheet to hold onto but the versatility, the flavor, it is just unmatched versus other character abilities!
Well,
I'm actually going with the Spell-less ranger from the Kobold Quarterly, and I think I'm going to drop the urban ranger mods. The spell-less gives me pretty much everything I wanted anyway as it is.
As to the animal companion, my biggest beef with it on a ranger is the '-3 levels'. Of course, that's mostly a leftover I think from 3.5's 1/2 levels.
After talking it over with the GM, I'm actually going to end up with 2 animal companions (both with rings of sustenance). The first is going to be a large cat (tiger), since my character is a catfolk. There is a small (about 2000 in a city of 60000) population of catfolk in the city, and they all keep domesticated large cats as pets, so it's not unusual to see them in the city. The other will be a dire bat (from the bestiary, it's an animal companion), which works well in a city. Between the two, I will have a pet day or night. I'm having to give up my amulet of mighty fists to put rings on them, but it's easier and cheaper than feeding them day to day for a year. :)
... large cat (tiger)... dire bat ...
Are these two even allowed as ranger animal companions? I thought the ranger was restricted to a small group of animals and those two are not on the list.
... large cat (tiger)... dire bat ...Are these two even allowed as ranger animal companions? I thought the ranger was restricted to a small group of animals and those two are not on the list.
The bestiary had Dire Bat listed as an animal companion, it didn't specify which list it was on. In fact, none of the new companions in the bestiary listed whether they were druid or ranger only.
GM ruled the feline was acceptable due to ranger's race in the game world. As catfolk in the game world do not mess with dogs (wolves), domesticated cats take the place of wolves and dogs for catfolk rangers.
I still don't like the fact that they get the regular Hunter's Bond (Druid level = Ranger - 3) and then can take a Ranger talent that lets them get another animal companion where your Ranger level equals your Druid level for the animal companion purposes.
I still don't like the fact that they get the regular Hunter's Bond (Druid level = Ranger - 3) and then can take a Ranger talent that lets them get another animal companion where your Ranger level equals your Druid level for the animal companion purposes.
Well,
I'm happy to trade out the two companions for something else. Maybe the distracting attack. Any other ranger variants in the APG that trade just animal companion for anything?
Well, I'm happy to trade out the two companions for something else. Maybe the distracting attack. Any other ranger variants in the APG that trade just animal companion for anything?
The part I don't like is that one is Ranger -3 and the other is Ranger.
I have no problem with two animal companions.
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I still don't like the fact that they get the regular Hunter's Bond (Druid level = Ranger - 3) and then can take a Ranger talent that lets them get another animal companion where your Ranger level equals your Druid level for the animal companion purposes.
Hi!
I got an e-mail pointing me toward this thread ...
Might I suggest you check this thread out:
Kobold Quarterly's spell-less ranger and the APG
Thanks! Sorry to pop in! :)