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The fate of Pitax (spoilers likely)


Kingmaker

51 to 72 of 72 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

ChrisO wrote:

Turin,

I placed the zip file on my site, as it doesn't appear to violate Paizo's policy. Anyone who wishes to download it may go Here.

Nice work, by the way! Looks like you spent a good deal of time with it. Are your players higher level than the orig book? Thanks for the excellent contribution! :)

Yep - 15th level actual with enough bells and whistles added on to bump APL up by +6 currently.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:
ChrisO wrote:

Turin,

I placed the zip file on my site, as it doesn't appear to violate Paizo's policy. Anyone who wishes to download it may go Here.

Nice work, by the way! Looks like you spent a good deal of time with it. Are your players higher level than the orig book? Thanks for the excellent contribution! :)

Yep - 15th level actual with enough bells and whistles added on to bump APL up by +6 currently.

Hey Turin why not start a group project 'doing' up the rest of the River Kingdoms. ---PLEASE!


PJ wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
ChrisO wrote:

Turin,

I placed the zip file on my site, as it doesn't appear to violate Paizo's policy. Anyone who wishes to download it may go Here.

Nice work, by the way! Looks like you spent a good deal of time with it. Are your players higher level than the orig book? Thanks for the excellent contribution! :)

Yep - 15th level actual with enough bells and whistles added on to bump APL up by +6 currently.
Hey Turin why not start a group project 'doing' up the rest of the River Kingdoms. ---PLEASE!

Sure. What I do will be from the basis of my campaign.

If there are any baselines to suggest I welcome them. From what I've caught on the other Kingmaker campaigns, the average year for entering Chapter 5 is quite a bit later than 4715.


whistles appreciatively while eyeing Pitax's "final" advancement

If Pitax is done without the 25% wasted turns, he's ready to rumble in plenty of time for even the earliest group's entry into Chapter 5. And Pitax brings a lot of firepower to the table indeed.

grins evilly

Of course, since my own group will have about 12-13 years' elapsed time with an area comparable to Pitax's - with a better ruling council - I expect the war will be brutal and nasty.

As things stand, Chapter 5 could start a few years' early if my players' kingdom(s) are in proper shape. We shall see ... we shall see.

^_^

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:

whistles appreciatively while eyeing Pitax's "final" advancement

If Pitax is done without the 25% wasted turns, he's ready to rumble in plenty of time for even the earliest group's entry into Chapter 5. And Pitax brings a lot of firepower to the table indeed.

grins evilly

Of course, since my own group will have about 12-13 years' elapsed time with an area comparable to Pitax's - with a better ruling council - I expect the war will be brutal and nasty.

As things stand, Chapter 5 could start a few years' early if my players' kingdom(s) are in proper shape. We shall see ... we shall see.

^_^

Keep us posted.


PJ wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

whistles appreciatively while eyeing Pitax's "final" advancement

If Pitax is done without the 25% wasted turns, he's ready to rumble in plenty of time for even the earliest group's entry into Chapter 5. And Pitax brings a lot of firepower to the table indeed.

grins evilly

Of course, since my own group will have about 12-13 years' elapsed time with an area comparable to Pitax's - with a better ruling council - I expect the war will be brutal and nasty.

As things stand, Chapter 5 could start a few years' early if my players' kingdom(s) are in proper shape. We shall see ... we shall see.

^_^

Keep us posted.

^_^ It is VERY impressive indeed.


I will spoiler-post the "final" write up I'm using for Pitax in a format that everyone can use in a few hours' time.

Suffice it to say that Pitax in this version should be pretty eye-opening. ^_^


And here we are, Pitax "as it should be".

I recommend the earlier postings in this thread as regards Rushlight and Littletown. The other two cities of Mormouth and Sarain are neglected. Effectively, they are neutral vassal states that sustain themselves within their own territory.

City and Kingdom of Pitax:
  • Economy +498 plus ruling council bonus, Loyalty +738 plus ruling council bonus, Stability +600 plus ruling council bonus, DM +682 (or +16), Control DC 142
  • Pitax city buildings (38 fully developed districts @ 9 blocks/district): Alchemist x20, Arena x1, Barracks x28, Black Market x27, Brewery x25, Brothel x27, Castle x1, Cathedral (Caliastra) x1, City Wall x151, Dump x20, Exotic Craftsman x46, Garrison x101, Granary x55, Guildhall x1, Herbalist x10, House x450, Inn x27, Jail x1, Market x1, Monument x60, Noble Villa x7, Shop x20, Shrine x20, Smith x21, Stable x8, Tannery x20, Tavern x27, Temple (Abadar) x1, Theatre x7, Town Hall x1, Tradesman x180, Watchtower x7, Waterfront x1
  • Magic Item Slots: 143 minor/33 medium/28 major – sells 26 major & 12 medium items/month
  • Base Item Value: 16,000 gp [technically 212,000 gp]
  • Open Space Developments: farmland w/ apiary x80, winery x20 (hills), reservoir x2, herbal cultivar x2, forest camp x4, mine x12 (6 special resources: 1 gold, 2 iron, 2 silver, 1 salt)
  • 5,500 BP in the 55 granaries in case Pitax is besieged
  • Manpower: 372.5 (30.5 is rural, the remaining 342 is the population of the city itself), all but 2.5 of which is accounted for in the Regular Army of Pitax, below
  • Officer Corps: 37.25
  • "Cash Flow" from magic item sales and Economy is 42-43 BP per month after paying the quartered consumption costs for the next spoilered block of units - all of them
  • 7 months' weekly consumption costs for ALL of the below armies (8,308 BP, more or less)
  • remaining 'operational' treasury after conscripting 10 battalions of militia is 692 BP

The Mercenaries of Pitax:

All of the commanders have permanent telepathic bonds with Irovetti, providing excellent CC&C.

Troll Marauders

Huge CR 9 Army of Trolls
Army HP 40; rout threshold 14 hp
OM +13 = +17, DV 23 = 19
Consumption: 8, mercenary
Tactic: relentless brutality = OM +4, DV -4 [they haven’t bothered learning anything else; they are after all trolls …]
Special: regeneration 5/phase
Speed: 2
Morale: +4 = +19 w/ Antipaladin Troll leader; no salvage
Leader: Mirthilda Blaggard <Profession (soldier) +27, adds +15 Morale, adds +4 OM & DV>

2 Flights of Wyverns (base line = CR 6)

2 Huge Flights of Wyverns = CR 10 armies [quartered in Littletown]
Army hp 65; rout threshold 22 hp
OM +11, DV 21
Consumption: 10 for each flight
Tactic: relentless brutality = OM +4 = +15, DV -4 = 17 = 18 w/ mobility advantage
Special Abilities: mobility advantage (flight), poison [p 57, PF #35 – nasty business]
Speed: 4
Morale: +1 = +7 w/ advanced wyvern soldier’s leadership; Profession (soldier) +7; no salvage

“Tusker Riders” (base line = CR 7 small army)

Huge CE Army of hill giants mounted on mastodons = CR 11
Army hp: 88; rout threshold 29 hp
OM +13, DV 23
Tactics: cavalry experts
Resources: mounts, improved armor
Special Abilities: rock throwing, mercenaries
Consumption: 12, mercenary
Salvage: 8 BP
Morale: +1 = +10 w/ Moleg’s bonus
Leader: Kob Moleg, advanced hill giant, 10 ranks soldier, Cha +0/Str +9, Profession (soldier) +13
Speed: 2.5 (5 hexes per 2 days)

7 Glenebon Barbarian Tribes

7 Gargantuan armies of human barbarian 4th = CR 9 each
Army hp: 58 each; rout threshold 19 hp
OM +10, ranged; DV 20
Resources: improved armor and weapons, ranged weapons
Tactic: Dirty Fighters
Morale: +1 = +8 w/ leaders’ bonus
Leader: Cassandra Slayn simulacrums [+1 OM and DV from ranks of Profession – soldier; +14 check bonus; Str +7]
Speed: 2.5 (5 hexes per 2 days)
Consumption: 28 each, mercenary x7 tribes = 196 Salvage: 10 BP/tribe (70 for all 7 tribes)

Catspaw Marauders

CR 9 Huge Army of CR 5 human fighter/rogues
Army hp: 45, rout threshold 15 hp
Leader: Alasen [+27 profession (soldier) – 20 ranks {+4}, +0 Cha]
OM +17, DV 27 [CR +8 = OM (4 ranks +2 mounts +2 magic), CR +18 = DV (10 +4 ranks +2 mounts +2 magic)]
Resources: magic armor and weapons, mounts (horses), ranged weapons
Tactics: sniper support; SQ: mercenaries
Morale: +1 = +12 w/ Alasen’s +11 Strength bonus
Speed: 4
Consumption: 54
Salvage: 28 BP

The Regular Army of Pitax:

All of the commanders have permanent telepathic bonds with Irovetti, providing excellent CC&C.

4 squadrons of hippogriff air cavalry

Gargantuan Army of 3rd level dragoon fighters w/ CR 2 hippogriff mounts = army CR 8
Consumption: 20 per squadron
Speed: 20/3 days flying (6.67)
Resources: fortification builders, mounts, improved weapons, ranged weapons
SQ: mobility advantage (flying)
OM +10 – ranged capability, mounted
DV 19 (20? w/ mobility advantage)
Army HP: 44 per squadron; rout threshold 14 hp
Tactics: none; Profession (soldier) +14
Morale +0 +7 = +7
Salvage: 32 BP per squadron

10 regiments of infantry - 8 on foot, 2 on light horse

Colossal Army of 3rd level musket master gunslingers = army CR 10
Consumption: 24/regiment; 30 for each regiment mounted on light horse
Speed: 2 (4 for the 9th and 10th regiments)
Resources: improved weapons, ranged weapons; 9th & 10th regiments have light horse mounts
OM +12 – ranged capability
DV 21
1st regiment (led by General Graul) = OM +15 (+3), DV 24 (+3)
Army HP: 55 per regiment; rout threshold 18 hp
Tactics: none; Profession (soldier) +14 – 1st regiment = Profession (soldier) +33
Morale: +0 +7 = +7 Morale – 1st regiment +0 +13 = +13 Morale
Salvage: 30 BP per regiment

3 battalions of Elf 'scouts'

Gargantuan Army of 3rd level Elf (woodcraft) Barbarians = army CR 8
Consumption: 14 per battalion
Speed: 2.5 (5 per 2 days) - due to taking Fleet twice as general feats
Resources: improved weapons, ranged weapons
OM +10 - ranged capability
DV 19
Army HP: 52 per battalion; rout threshold 17 hp
Tactics: none; Profession (soldier) +14
Morale: +0 +7 = +7
Salvage: 15 BP per battalion

10 battalions of conscript militia

Gargantuan Army of 1st level human warriors = army CR 4
Resource: ranged weapons
OM +5 - ranged capability
DV 15
Speed 2
Army HP 22 each; rout threshold 8 hp
Consumption 2 per battalion
Morale +0 = +7, Profession (soldier) +14
Salvage: 2 BP per battalion
IMPORTANT NOTE: The conscription/recruitment and training takes a week's time. It is 3 1/2 days' march from Pitax to Fort Drelev at a cost of 380 BP for the 10 battalions.

SIEGE ENGINE BATTERIES: Pitax can afford 12 batteries of siege engines. 1 is attached to the Tusker Riders, 1 to the Troll Marauders and 1 to each regiment of infantry, including on-campaign consumption costs.

Irovetti's (or rather his General's) strategic plan is not being posted here. ^_^


Most impressive, flabbergastment at your party's APL and overall power level beside.

Though on the armies, what are the 'real' populations of your versions of both Pitax the city and Pitax the River Kingdom as a whole? The 'regular' army section implies 30,000 dragoons and infantry, and another 4,000 cavalrymen, which alone dwarfs the civilian population of pre-Kingmaker-era Pitax.

Going by the straight Kingmaker numbers, 38 full districts*9000 = a population of 342,000 for Pitax. Which would make it larger than just about everything but Absalom.


Daviot wrote:

Most impressive, flabbergastment at your party's APL and overall power level beside.

Though on the armies, what are the 'real' populations of your versions of both Pitax the city and Pitax the River Kingdom as a whole? The 'regular' army section implies 30,000 dragoons and infantry, and another 4,000 cavalrymen, which alone dwarfs the civilian population of pre-Kingmaker-era Pitax.

Going by the straight Kingmaker numbers, 38 full districts*9000 = a population of 342,000 for Pitax. Which would make it larger than just about everything but Absalom.

Absalom's actual population in Kingmaker terms would be at least 9 times the listed value. I believe that the "population" is "fighting / working age", not including nobility, visitors, nonworking spouses, gobs of children and those in their dotage. Kingmaker population values include ALL inhabitants, not just the "working age" Joes.

EDIT: Westcrown is said to comprise some 140-odd districts, almost all of which is thoroughly inhabited (although not necessarily by tax-paying citizenry). I don't think Westcrown is described as having the immense 1 1/4 million inhabitants. :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:
Daviot wrote:

Most impressive, flabbergastment at your party's APL and overall power level beside.

Though on the armies, what are the 'real' populations of your versions of both Pitax the city and Pitax the River Kingdom as a whole? The 'regular' army section implies 30,000 dragoons and infantry, and another 4,000 cavalrymen, which alone dwarfs the civilian population of pre-Kingmaker-era Pitax.

Going by the straight Kingmaker numbers, 38 full districts*9000 = a population of 342,000 for Pitax. Which would make it larger than just about everything but Absalom.

Absalom's actual population in Kingmaker terms would be at least 9 times the listed value. I believe that the "population" is "fighting / working age", not including nobility, visitors, nonworking spouses, gobs of children and those in their dotage. Kingmaker population values include ALL inhabitants, not just the "working age" Joes.

EDIT: Westcrown is said to comprise some 140-odd districts, almost all of which is thoroughly inhabited (although not necessarily by tax-paying citizenry). I don't think Westcrown is described as having the immense 1 1/4 million inhabitants. :)

I hope with all the build up between the pcs and what I have to do to challenge them doesn't push the 'believability factor' too much. We are talking about millions to field adequate armies. These people have to come from somewhere.


PJ wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Daviot wrote:

Most impressive, flabbergastment at your party's APL and overall power level beside.

Though on the armies, what are the 'real' populations of your versions of both Pitax the city and Pitax the River Kingdom as a whole? The 'regular' army section implies 30,000 dragoons and infantry, and another 4,000 cavalrymen, which alone dwarfs the civilian population of pre-Kingmaker-era Pitax.

Going by the straight Kingmaker numbers, 38 full districts*9000 = a population of 342,000 for Pitax. Which would make it larger than just about everything but Absalom.

Absalom's actual population in Kingmaker terms would be at least 9 times the listed value. I believe that the "population" is "fighting / working age", not including nobility, visitors, nonworking spouses, gobs of children and those in their dotage. Kingmaker population values include ALL inhabitants, not just the "working age" Joes.

EDIT: Westcrown is said to comprise some 140-odd districts, almost all of which is thoroughly inhabited (although not necessarily by tax-paying citizenry). I don't think Westcrown is described as having the immense 1 1/4 million inhabitants. :)

I hope with all the build up between the pcs and what I have to do to challenge them doesn't push the 'believability factor' too much. We are talking about millions to field adequate armies. These people have to come from somewhere.

I would peg "my" Pitax's population at a total of 500,000. I expect my player's kingdom to equal or exceed this. Mivon would have perhaps 400,000.

As a side note, Brevoy is larger than medieval - rennaissance England by a good bit. England of that time frame without the benefit of adepts, low level clerics and the like had a population ranging from 1 million to as high as about 3 1/2 million. I would peg Brevoy's population at probably about 5 million.

Cheliax, Andoran and Taldor are much older and larger and probably have populations in the 10 - 20 million range (with land areas that are a sizeable proportion of the continental U.S.).


Wow, there is some really cool stuff in here.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hello everyone,

i am sorry but i can't find the Pitax that is decribed in AP #35 in your postings.

First Pitax has the following statistics in the River Kingdom source book:

Quote:

PITAX

Small City autocracy (single ruler); AL CN
DEMOGRAPHICS
Population 8,790

Quote:

Pitax in AP #35

CN small city
Corruption +4; Crime +2; Economy +4; Law +3; Lore +4;
Society +0
Qualities academic, notorious, strategic location,
tourist attraction
Danger +15
Demographics
Government overlord
Population 5,781 (5,600 humans; 100 half-elves; 40 dwarves;
41 other)

If i compare this with Fort Drelev in AP #34 where the relation between the "official" numbers (1360) and the people count by the Kingdom Building rules (5750) is approx. 1 to 4.25 the Population of Pitax in the Kingdom Building Rules might be approx 37500 inhabitants which is 5 city districts with the last one only containing little more than one city block.

Now there are only three further "cities" mentioned in the books:

Quote:

Mormouth

A fishing village north west of Pitax.
Quote:

Sarain

The vineyard city at the border between Pitax and Mivon and a constant battleground of both Kingdoms.

Both "cities" seem to be outside the map of the Kingmaker campaign.

AP #35:
The Ruins of Littletown
Laid to waste and not counting as a city but as claimed area

Now my assumption:

Since Pitax is constantly in an internal quarrel it has never
expanded far from it's heart - the city itself.

Only the "road" hexes of the Kingmaker map of Pitax are claimed (obvious because of the roads) and covered with farms. Also all adjacent hexes of Pitax itself are claimed and farmland (vineyards are mentioned around Pitax City itself and there is a hint that Pitax lacks ore of any kind and must import it).

So the Pitax Kingdom itself has a size of 9 Hexes with 6 of them being farmland. (maybe double the size for the "hexes" lying outside of the map).

Turin's model of the City itself looks reasonable though i miss the tenements for the New Ruins area.

This is my view to Pitax as a kingdom build by the Kingdom rules and the other sources.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Hargor wrote:

Hello everyone,

i am sorry but i can't find the Pitax that is decribed in AP #35 in your postings.

First Pitax has the following statistics in the River Kingdom source book:

Quote:

PITAX

Small City autocracy (single ruler); AL CN
DEMOGRAPHICS
Population 8,790

Quote:

Pitax in AP #35

CN small city
Corruption +4; Crime +2; Economy +4; Law +3; Lore +4;
Society +0
Qualities academic, notorious, strategic location,
tourist attraction
Danger +15
Demographics
Government overlord
Population 5,781 (5,600 humans; 100 half-elves; 40 dwarves;
41 other)

If i compare this with Fort Drelev in AP #34 where the relation between the "official" numbers (1360) and the people count by the Kingdom Building rules (5750) is approx. 1 to 4.25 the Population of Pitax in the Kingdom Building Rules might be approx 37500 inhabitants which is 5 city districts with the last one only containing little more than one city block.

Now there are only three further "cities" mentioned in the books:

Quote:

Mormouth

A fishing village north west of Pitax.
Quote:

Sarain

The vineyard city at the border between Pitax and Mivon and a constant battleground of both Kingdoms.

Both "cities" seem to be outside the map of the Kingmaker campaign.

** spoiler omitted **

Now my assumption:

Since Pitax is constantly in an internal quarrel it has never
expanded far from it's heart - the city itself.

Only the "road" hexes of the Kingmaker map of Pitax are claimed (obvious because of the roads) and covered with farms. Also all adjacent hexes of Pitax itself are claimed and farmland (vineyards are mentioned around Pitax City itself and there is a hint that Pitax lacks ore of any kind and must import it).

So the Pitax Kingdom itself has a size of 9 Hexes with 6 of them being farmland. (maybe double the size for the "hexes" lying outside of the map).

Turin's model of the City itself looks...

That Pitax could never afford the Army he has. The numbers don't mesh even close.


Which is why I made my own version of Pitax. The "as written" one *should* be an utter pushover in Chapter 5 with most any semi-competently run player kingdom. *Maybe* the war comes as a legitimate surprise (unlikely) and the player kingdom "only" has 4 armies plus possible irregulars from bullywugs, centaurs, et al.

At best they're looking at a "war" that lasts a month, two with a very protracted siege. Mostly spent marching infantry hither and yon before investing puny Pitax.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:

Which is why I made my own version of Pitax. The "as written" one *should* be an utter pushover in Chapter 5 with most any semi-competently run player kingdom. *Maybe* the war comes as a legitimate surprise (unlikely) and the player kingdom "only" has 4 armies plus possible irregulars from bullywugs, centaurs, et al.

At best they're looking at a "war" that lasts a month, two with a very protracted siege. Mostly spent marching infantry hither and yon before investing puny Pitax.

Yeah, seriously this Pitax has some serious teeth and staying power.


My group is starting blood for blood, and they've already emerging into a large kingdom. We round robin the GMing between myself and two others,(we also solve disputes and issues of play as a tribunal, quite nice.) I specifically requested book 5 when I saw the war. I think I might just need to use your remodel of Pitax, Turin. As written, pitax is a paper tiger.

Given the size and carefully micromanaged growth the players in our game have, their kingdom can currently take out Pitax a book early at year 3. With the player's luck on d20 kingdom rolls and their king's borg like absorption of every threat yet, I don't dare field the book's pitax.

Strangely enough, I don't know if it will be enough, since they're the type to find all the little chinks in the armor of an encounter... I fully expect half of them to sneak into Pitax, blight their crop fields, burn or poison their granaries, firebomb critical buildings, and/or steal from the treasuries, while the other half lead the honorable side of war blissfully unaware of the maneuvers of the darker half of the group. They're that kind of group.

Regardless on whether or not they can find a way to cut pitax's feet out from under it, I'm planning to increase the pressure by hammering them with a second war breaking out with Brevoy once they start fielding armies against Pitax. Perhaps 3-6 months in, depending on how they deal with it. Our players have been poking at the issian-restov tension with a stick with arms dealing, under the table deals with both restov and issia, and other such things, so fully arming would definitely cause issians to war.

Shadow Lodge

Thank you muchly for bumping this. This is exactly what I need on hand for later. >=)


So my group just finished book 5, and I took a different path for the fate of Pitax. Taking a page from some group work we did in one of my classes, I created a serious of roles for each player to play in a negotiation. I have a seven player group (sigh), so I ended up creating five non-kingdom roles, one for each trade house and one for Grigori, who in my campaign ended up aligning with my PCs. That left one player, the ruler of the kingdom, to be the negotiator for their kingdom (one player was out that day).

Each group had different desires, and I gauged what their kingdom got as a result of the negotiations—both in how well they portrayed their side's wishes and the settlement they reached. If anyone is interested, I have put the position papers online.


My party got on so well with irroveti, we decided we wouldn't be at war with him but save him....eventually he handed over the keys to pitax and he ran off with evindra the nereid

Was a good choice for him as the pcs eventually lost and got snowglobed


Somebody posted a useful map of the Kingmaker maps posted over the map of the River Kingdoms. From that I created my own map of Pitax. It comes to a total of 127 hexs including Mormouth and Sarain.

I would limit Pitax to two or three districts. Mormouth should also be bigger because it was once the capital of Corvenn and so there will quite a lot of ruined or dilapidated buildings which can be revived.

The state would have one or two quarries at most and no mines according to the River Kingdoms Guide. It should have a lot of farmland with quite a number of agricultural resource hexs representing the vineyards around Sarain and the orchards between Sarain and Pitax.

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