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100 Decisions that would have spawned an Alternate History


Off-Topic Discussions

201 to 250 of 623 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Whited Sepulcher wrote:
... This would result with no Masquerade rpg by White Wolf,

Following the butterfly effect:

Lisa Stevens, a young female RPG editor, never gets the chance to expand her horizons at White Wolf, as Vampire the Masquerade is never created and the company eventually folds after putting out a less well-received game about playing characters in Purgatory, called Inferno. Eventually she leaves the RPG field, moving on to editing software technical manuals for Microsoft and never joins WotC. This results in Paizo never being formed, and the Pathfinder game system is never created.

Here's a fun one:

Catherine of Aragon's son Henry of Cornwall, born New Year's Day 1511, manages to survive infancy. His father, Henry VIII of England, pleased with his wife now that she has delivered a healthy heir, never casts about for a replacement. Anne Boleyn becomes another of his disposable mistresses and is swallowed up by history. Henry VIII remains a faithful scion of the Catholic Church. His son, who in time becomes Henry IX, Fidei Defensor, is tutored by Thomas More and becomes a staunch defender of Catholicism. He becomes a close ally to the Hapsburg Dynasty, which is headed by his maternal cousins.

The burgeoning Protestant movement in England is sternly persecuted, resulting in a diaspora. Some English Protestants flee to the Netherlands, others eventually sail for the New World. The Anglican Church is never formed, and the face of English Protestantism becomes much more radical.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM Wellard wrote:

I cannot believe we missed this one

157)Teddy Kennedy lets Mary Joe drive leading to....

157a) The CIA still shoot the tyres out only this time Teddy drowns like he was supposed to trapped by the rigged passenger door.

OR

157 a2: Instead of wandering off, going to sleep drunk and only reporting the accident the next day under pressure from his advisors, Teddy attempts to find help after the accident immediately afterwards at one of the four houses he would have to had passed to get back to his lodgings that night. Mary Jo is saved by a quick-acting local, and thanks to her devotion to the Kennedy family, she doesn't press charges and the incident is hushed up by the Kennedy machine. Kennedy goes on to challenge Ford in '76, and wins the presidency. Sadly, he is assasinated in 1979 by Raymond Lee Harvey, a mentally ill drifter. His vice president Dale Bumpers finishes off his term but is unable to stem the anti-Democratic tide of 1980 and is defeated in the presidential race by Ronald Reagan.


Thanatos95 wrote:
47) 100 million years ago a small asteroid bumps a much larger one, changing its course by .000000001 of a degree. 55 million years later, the larger rock misses earth by 1000 miles. 10 million years after that, Nail Tailstrong becomes the first dinosaur on the moon.

Making the world AWESOME!


An English scholar by the last name of Tolkein decides not to write fiction, preferring to concentrate on English scholarship. Not a huge impact on the world in general, but the hobby that brought all of us here either wouldn't exist or would look radically different, wouldn't it?

Qadira

Steven Purcell wrote:
An English scholar by the last name of Tolkein decides not to write fiction, preferring to concentrate on English scholarship. Not a huge impact on the world in general, but the hobby that brought all of us here either wouldn't exist or would look radically different, wouldn't it?

_SHHUDDERS~~~~


Steven Purcell wrote:
An English scholar by the last name of Tolkein decides not to write fiction, preferring to concentrate on English scholarship. Not a huge impact on the world in general, but the hobby that brought all of us here either wouldn't exist or would look radically different, wouldn't it?

Without LotR a couple of bored wargamers mix standard tabletop wargame with the writings of Richard Addams creating a rollplaying game called Bunnies & Burrows. Bunnies & Burrows becomes the most popular rollplaying game of all time. The current 4th edition caused a rift in the gaming community with many players switching to an updated and re-branded version of B&B 3rd edition called Pathhopper.

Andoran

PathHopper is the only RPG you will ever need. Anyone who says different is an ignorant fool who deserves to be PWN'd. :)


Xabulba wrote:
Without LotR a couple of bored wargamers mix standard tabletop wargame with the writings of Richard Addams creating a rollplaying game called Bunnies & Burrows. Bunnies & Burrows becomes the most popular rollplaying game of all time. The current 4th edition caused a rift in the gaming community with many players switching to an updated and re-branded version of B&B 3rd edition called Pathhopper.

Aah, Bunnies & Burrows. Never got farther than second level, and so never had to use the courting and reproduction rules, but still great memories...

What about this one: FGU hire a competent editor and flood the market with well written, logically ordered role playing games, becoming king of the hill and buying out TSR ?

Qadira

Crimson Jester wrote:
The Hyksos peoples are never deposed from Egyptian rule. There is never a second kingdom. Moses grows up in his family nice and secure with a Hebrew name and a simple migration back to the promised land happens. No great conflict happens and the walls of Jericho never fall. The ruins of the old city walls still stand with the modern city built up around it.

The Mosus Exodus is an iffy historical event...The City in the Delta it may have refered to was abandoned because the rivers in the delta change direction over time. This results in inevitable abandonment of a major Egyptian Capital and agricultural district due to silting of waterways, loss of water flow, lack of irrigation, and starvation.

Kingdoms located in the Nile Delta have a timelimit.

If you desire contituity of the Hyksos...

The Hyksos peoples develop a network of permanent Canals faced with Stone, and fix the position of Rivers of the Nile Delta with a program of Canal Management and silt removal through use of settling ponds. This results in Social Continuity and no Second Kingdom...The worsening economic conditions that give rise to the reasons for Mosus's Parents abandoning the child in the river and his retrieval and adoption by the ruling elite never occur. In fact Mosus is not born because females occur in times when the Birth Mother is under less stress for nutrients.

Osirion

Korean War 1950-53

President Truman AGREES to the request of general MacArthur to use nuclear bombs against chinese air bases in Manchouria (NE China).

Russia certainly sides with North Korea and China...

We do not know what does the world look like today, but we do not use plastic miniatures made in China for our games!!!


An agreement was reached between the citizens of the Thirteen Colonies and King George III (and the British Parliament) and as a result the American Revolution never occurred and the British Empire in North America, through careful political decisions, military campaigns and land purchases grows to encompass all of North America from the Aleutians in the west to Cape Spear in the East, from Ellesmere Island in the north to the Rio Grande (and possibly further) in the south. Actually one possible version of this story is found here in Harry Turtledove's novel, The Two Georges (not sure if it is still in print)


yellowdingo wrote:
Steven Purcell wrote:
Genghis Khan dies before he can unite the Mongol clans. As a result China continues its technological and cultural golden age, eventually colonizing the Americas, while the Muslim states destroy the Crusader states and achieve dominance over the political, economic, scientific, cultural and military sphere across Eastern Europe.
Mongol empire under Genghis Khan's Son or grandson? invaded Persia and having put the upper classes to death took the Artisans back to the Sino-Mongol Empire...

The implication in the post was that dying before uniting the Mongols also meant he died before fathering any children (should have spelled that out I guess)

Qadira

Steven Purcell wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Steven Purcell wrote:
Genghis Khan dies before he can unite the Mongol clans. As a result China continues its technological and cultural golden age, eventually colonizing the Americas, while the Muslim states destroy the Crusader states and achieve dominance over the political, economic, scientific, cultural and military sphere across Eastern Europe.
Mongol empire under Genghis Khan's Son or grandson? invaded Persia and having put the upper classes to death took the Artisans back to the Sino-Mongol Empire...
The implication in the post was that dying before uniting the Mongols also meant he died before fathering any children (should have spelled that out I guess)

I was refering the fact you imply that Mongol China is a decline in Intellectual know how...It is a period of Assimilation and building. Certainly The Chinese might not see it that way with ignorant barbarians in charge.

Qadira

--------------------------------------------------175---------------------- ------------------------------------
175. After George Washington burns down my family farm because my ancestors refused to provide his bandit army with food...Some of the hothead members of the Family decide to Assassinate him at a bridge crossing. This time their mother does not object and force them all to move to Red River up on the Canadian Border.

Washington does not live to become President of the United States. My Ancestors get a Medal from the King for services to the Crown. :)


yellowdingo wrote:
Steven Purcell wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Steven Purcell wrote:
Genghis Khan dies before he can unite the Mongol clans. As a result China continues its technological and cultural golden age, eventually colonizing the Americas, while the Muslim states destroy the Crusader states and achieve dominance over the political, economic, scientific, cultural and military sphere across Eastern Europe.
Mongol empire under Genghis Khan's Son or grandson? invaded Persia and having put the upper classes to death took the Artisans back to the Sino-Mongol Empire...
The implication in the post was that dying before uniting the Mongols also meant he died before fathering any children (should have spelled that out I guess)
I was referring the fact you imply that Mongol China is a decline in Intellectual know how...It is a period of Assimilation and building. Certainly The Chinese might not see it that way with ignorant barbarians in charge.

Well, the problem there is that during the Mongol invasion of northern China tens of millions of Chinese were either displaced or killed by the Mongols, the remaining populace subjected to widespread raiding and pillaging (yes eventually, Kubilai created the Yuan Dynasty which stabilized the situation and which was overthrown by the forces that would go on to create the Ming Dynasty (a new golden age in China) by about 1368), the Mongols allowed foreign powers to drain off sizable chunks of the Chinese treasury, the fact that China had built up a sizable prominence in science, technology, arts, culture and philosophy during the golden age of the Song Dynasty (pre-Mongol invasion), the Han being kept out of key positions by having Mongols fill those roles instead and the fact that the Chinese had been builders for centuries (roads and other civil engineering had been regular obsessions for the Chinese since the rule of Ying Zheng aka Qin Shi Huangdi (the guy who unified China and indeed who the country is STILL named after-Qin is pronounced "Chin"), yeah the Mongols brought some stability (eventually) but caused more damage to China than they built. The Mongols really benefited Europe but were nothing but trouble for China and of mixed results (at best) to the Arab world. The knowledge was maintained and somewhat increased but it was limited and China did not benefit from the Mongol controlled cultural contacts with the west.

But getting back to the original topic, here's a new alt-history idea: the Mongols reach an agreement with the Abbasid Caliphate and the two powers launch a joint attack on Europe, with the Mongols later stabbing the Abbasids in the back and conquering them after conquering Europe. The Mongol Empire expands its frontiers all the way to the Atlantic and the British Isles and the ideas, knowledge and science of all the powers subject to Mongol rule are consolidated together, possibly ushering in a new golden age across the empire and potentially leading to a much earlier contact with the Americas and possibly an entire world under the Mongol banner.


Here's another one: A British Army officer by the name of Robert Baden-Powell is killed during the Siege of Mafeking in the Second Boer War. As a result, the World Scouting movement is never founded. What consequences would result from that are hard to estimate but they would likely be profound, considering how many people have gone through Scouting and Guiding programs over the past century.


About 200,000 years ago an unknown disease wipes out the majority of a then new species we call Homo sapiens: as a result Homo neanderthalensis comes to dominate the planet, after the disease dies off.


Xabulba wrote:
Steven Purcell wrote:
An English scholar by the last name of Tolkein decides not to write fiction, preferring to concentrate on English scholarship. Not a huge impact on the world in general, but the hobby that brought all of us here either wouldn't exist or would look radically different, wouldn't it?
Without LotR a couple of bored wargamers mix standard tabletop wargame with the writings of Richard Addams creating a rollplaying game called Bunnies & Burrows. Bunnies & Burrows becomes the most popular rollplaying game of all time. The current 4th edition caused a rift in the gaming community with many players switching to an updated and re-branded version of B&B 3rd edition called Pathhopper.

Fact. there was a world wide Hyborian age wargames campaign in operation as far back as 1965 involving such luminaries of the hobby as Duke Siegfried and Tony Bath Duke I believe knew both Dave Areneson and Gary Gygax..we might still have had D&D but without halflings ... ergo no Kender..hooray

Taldor

Here's one: The Black Plague does not strike the rebuilt Roman Empire of Justinian in 541, the Roman Empire is successfully reunited and a new era of stability is established.


I think this is Number 181: Smarting from it's defeat at Khalkin-Gol/Nomonhan, the Japanese army refuses to consider the possibility of a Non-Aggression Pact with the Soviet Union. In December 1941, responding to Hitler's urging and to the claims that Soviet divisions had been moved from the Far East Military District, the Kwanchung Army crosses the border into soviet territory with the expectation of an easy victory.

They're proved partly right. Six soviet rifle divisions had indeed been moved from the area. Unfortunately, the mobilisation scheme from June 1941 onwards had provided 15 Rifle divisions, 9 Rifle brigades, and 8 Tank brigades to replace them. In April 1943, their armies in China and Manchuria defeated, and faced by an alliance of the Soviet Union and Nationalist China, the Japanese sue for peace and the return of the nearly half-a-million prisoners the Russian and Chinese forces have taken. With no need to keep forty divisions in the far east, the Soviet army is able not just to defeat the Kursk offensive and liberate the Ukraine, but also overrun the German front in Byelorussia.

In May 1944, just as the great allied landing in Northern Frane gets under way, Soviet forces reach the Elbe. Two months later, as the allies are reaching the Rhine, a massive soviet offensive is launched against the German defenders of Berlin. Troops of the 8th Guards Army under Colonel-General Vasily Chuikov, the victor of the battles of Mutankiang, Beijing, and Smolensk, seize the Reichstag on the ninth day of the offensive. With Hitler's suicide, the second world war is over.


Patrick Curtin wrote:

Here's a fun one:

Catherine of Aragon's son Henry of Cornwall, born New Year's Day 1511, manages to survive infancy. His father, Henry VIII of England, pleased with his wife now that she has delivered a healthy heir, never casts about for a replacement. Anne Boleyn becomes another of his disposable mistresses and is swallowed up by history. Henry VIII remains a faithful scion of the Catholic Church. His son, who in time becomes Henry IX, Fidei Defensor, is tutored by Thomas More and becomes a staunch defender of Catholicism. He becomes a close ally to the Hapsburg Dynasty, which is headed by his maternal cousins.

The burgeoning Protestant movement in England is sternly persecuted, resulting in a diaspora. Some English Protestants flee to the Netherlands, others eventually sail for the New World. The Anglican Church is never formed, and the face of English Protestantism becomes much more radical.

*ahem* Points a few posts up

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
*ahem* Points a few posts up

Sorry you had dibs on that scenario? Well, consider mine rescinded then.

Qadira

182. Tesla does not move to America from England. Instead he gets a Tecnician job at a local University and works his way through an engineering degree in England.
After he becomes a Teacher at the University - in agreement for his own lab, He develops Wireless Electricity Transmission, Remote control Drone Craft (including Aircraft), and an assortment of other ideas within the University.

As head of the Department of Electrical Engineering he develops Alternating Current Electricity allowing Britain to become the first nation in Technology. He branches out into Nuclear Science - concluding that Nuclear material gives off a very high frequency wave.

By WW1 Tesla has developed the Accelerator Station - a Weapon project in Rural Britain designed to generate a deathray.


Remember, anything that ends the space race would also eliminate the computer revolution we all benefit from. Before the space race a computer was thing of bulbs and diodes about the size of a small house. It was the all important need to reduce weight that started shrinking the things down to the level where they can now fit in your hand.

And my alternate scenario....

Pelagius wins the debates over St. Augustus, changing the course of Christianity (and therefore the western world)for the next couple thousand years.

Qadira

Jason Ellis 350 wrote:
Pelagius wins the debates over St. Augustus, changing the course of Christianity (and therefore the western world)for the next couple thousand years.

St. Augustus's followers react badly in the post debate period and attacks on his rival and their followers escalate into murders and acts of terrorism. Pelagius's followers are driven underground as the new Theocracy takes power.


yellodingo wrote:
St. Augustus's followers react badly in the post debate period and attacks on his rival and their followers escalate into murders and acts of terrorism. Pelagius's followers are driven underground as the new Theocracy takes power.

Except for the methods used to get there, how is this any different than actual history?

Qadira

Jason Ellis 350 wrote:
yellodingo wrote:
St. Augustus's followers react badly in the post debate period and attacks on his rival and their followers escalate into murders and acts of terrorism. Pelagius's followers are driven underground as the new Theocracy takes power.
Except for the methods used to get there, how is this any different than actual history?

Not much, more likely just a prediction of the inevitability of things.


yellowdingo wrote:
Not much, more likely just a prediction of the inevitability of things.

And therefore has no place in this thread. We are discussing changes that could have happened to history, not things that would stay the same no matter what.

Qadira

Well if we are going religious then how is this.

Francis of Assisi does not contract malaria on his way to the crusades. He goes on to fight for glory and honor being a man of powerful build and devious tactics. Having grown up hanging around the wrong sort of people he knows when and where to sneak in rather then fight up front and is put in charge of a large group of men who manage to get a short lived foot hold in Jerusalem. He goes home to take up his fathers mercantile business and use his new found fame to bring him riches and prosperity. He never meets Claire and as such never notices the run down church nor fixes it up. Assisi has one less church because of this for it is torn down do to neglect. The church never has the order of friars or the order of the poor sisters. As such the more militant factors in the church have a longer and stronger foot hold in the medieval churches view. Two more crusades are fought in Palestine and the kingdoms of Acre and Jerusalem never fall. Portugal is never a separate nation from Spain. The Spanish inquisition is longer bloodier and more cruel and extends far outside of Spain into north African holdings by the European kingdoms.


Patrick Curtin wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
*ahem* Points a few posts up
Sorry you had dibs on that scenario? Well, consider mine rescinded then.

Yours is a hell of a lot more detailed than mine though- if not Anglican, what do you see the Protestant church becoming?

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
Patrick Curtin wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
*ahem* Points a few posts up
Sorry you had dibs on that scenario? Well, consider mine rescinded then.
Yours is a hell of a lot more detailed than mine though- if not Anglican, what do you see the Protestant church becoming?

Tough to say. Henry VIII remaining 'in house' (He did consider himself a good Catholic until the end of his life) with the Papacy probably would have had the proponents of the 'New Learning' being a lot quieter, and a lot fewer converts. The Anglican Church was basically set up as Catholisicm with Henry as Spiritual Head (at least at its beginnings). The real True Believers in Martin Luther's message would most likely be persecuted for their beliefs, much as the French monarchy did to the Hugenots. In our baseline time, many Hugenots ended up migrating to England, as well as the New World. So, England remaining Catholic would close off an avenue of escape for them as well.

I imagine that many Protestants from England and France would flee to the German principalities, where Protestantism was in full swing. After 1600, so many variables would have changed it is hard to accurately guess how the face of the Thirty Years' War would have been changed. Or how settlement of the New World would have progressed. Would there be a Mayflower? the Pilgrims were separatist Puritans. Perhaps there would have been MORE Puritans migrating to the New World. Would the English crown allow them to sail off? Tough to tell.

On a happier note, many of the beautiful English monestaries that were plundered during the Dissolution would remain intact into modern times. Glastonbury Abbey, once called 'A poem in stone' would remain intact.

Having a Tudor dynasty would also keep the Stewarts and Hanovers off the throne, assuming Henry IX could father an heir.

Qadira

Jason Ellis 350 wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Not much, more likely just a prediction of the inevitability of things.
And therefore has no place in this thread. We are discussing changes that could have happened to history, not things that would stay the same no matter what.

Is it still an Alternate History outcome if Pelagius and his followers are crushed by an inevitably ruthless St Augustus and his followers? Conceivably it is - but the Differences would be subtle. Is a Church founded by more ruthless men likely to generate a greater level of hositilty from its upstarts who know it is capable of greater cruelty?

I'd say that if they had bomb technology in that period it is the sort of thing that would have inspired the Disposessed side to resort to suicide bombers.

I would suggest that an increased level of violence on the Part of St. Augustus and his followers (who for the sake of the alternate history -lost the debate) would have ilicited millitary support from nobles who supported Pelagius (and from those who supported St. Augustus). Would that be sufficient to generate a level of long term religious hostility, instability, and factionalism that might lead to an event like the Gunpowder Plot being played out beneath the Vatican - resulting in the Destruction of Vatican City or Attacks on Churches where parishners are sealed up inside and the church or chapel set on fire? I cant say.


What ever number this one would be;
What if world war one did not end and it raged for 50+ years,Kaiser Wilhelm was involved in the occult,and the alien crash at Roswell yielded results, including a machine gun that can cycle up to 600 rounds and not overheat. If this sounds like a board game it is. This is Tannhauser's(all rights to the fantasy flight games and bring it on company's) time line and it beg a few interesting questions.


What if Cromwell had respected the rule of law and had not turned the Commonwealth of England into the Protectorate but it had instead remained a republic governing Great Britain?

Qadira

Steven Purcell wrote:
What if Cromwell had respected the rule of law and had not turned the Commonwealth of England into the Protectorate but it had instead remained a republic governing Great Britain?

America would be part of the World spanning Commonwealth.

Qadira

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-------------------------------------------------------------------189----- --------------------------------------------------------------

Julia Gillard shows unexpected loyalty in a friday meeting with Prime Minister Rudd by explaining to the PM that the other two men in the room have offered her his Job. She turns them down infront of the PM so that he knows they were trying to oust him.


yellowdingo wrote:
Sure we all know about that US plan to invade Canada if Britain fell to the Nazis(wwii)

Not only is this wrong but, whats more annoying from my perspective is that there really is a good story here. Hence you could be posting an interesting historical aside.

I'm at work so I don't have my history texts on hand but the gist of the story is that, without telling the British, Canada entered a secret treaty with the United States. A treaty that only went into effect should Great Britain fall. The basics of the treaty where that America would enter into a North American defense pact with Canada and make it explicit that America would attack 'anyone' (read Germany) that attacked North America. Of course America would not be at war or anything - though Canada would remain at war with Germany along with the other Commonwealth States.


190) Martin Luther King Jr, having developed a fear of heights as a child, takes pains to avoid the exposed patio in his hotel room.


Rosa Parkes moves to the back of the bus.


In 1631 Oliver Cromwell sick and tired by the continual ill fortune that has beset him emigrates to the Massachusetts colonies.

Without his skill, drive and conviction the Civil War in Britain peters out into a bloody stalemate.

Qadira

192)Ronald Reagan decides never to enter politics and stay in acting.

or

193)Karol Wojtyla never joined the priesthood and took up acting instead.


(gentlemen, let's keep numbering...)194) Disgusted by his politics and believing Malcolm X to be the future of the Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhammad's paid assassin instead slays his employer.


Freehold DM wrote:

113) America pushes further south during their war with Mexico/Spain, not stopping until they have crushed all resistance and refusing any offers of land in the name of a ceasefire.

Still wonder why this never happened.

They originally didn't want the Mexican territories because they were full of Mexicans, there was a good book I had to read in college that explained it.

Even Lincoln who wanted to free the slaves, didn't want them left in America, he wanted them all shipped to Liberia.


194] Montezuma slaughters the Conquistadors instead of letting them into the heart of the Aztec Empire, thus preventing the death of millions of Aztecs due to smallpox and the collapse of the Aztec Empire

195] The Native American population slaughters the first settlers

196] The library of Alexandria is never burned and scholars have access to the span of Ancient history, resulting in the archaeological location of Atlantis.


195) Tired of being picked on as a child, Martin Luther King Jr. takes his father's advice and starts learning how to box. He goes on to win various regional championships and makes a serious go of a professional career. Frustrated by the regular and institutionalized racism he encounters, and famed for his "all men equal in the ring" quote, he becomes a civil rights leader, renown for encouraging people of all races to study boxing and other unarmed fighting styles to better defend themselves when set upon by aggressors. Police officers intending to arrest him think twice before setting hands upon him, and most of his demonstrations and marches are peaceful if only due to fear of his fighting prowess and that of the second and third generation students that fill out these demonstrations. Although he is eventually cut down by an assassin's bullet, he recieves a hero's funeral and the MLK style of boxing is taught to almost every minority child in the years following his death.


Xaaon of Korvosa wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:

113) America pushes further south during their war with Mexico/Spain, not stopping until they have crushed all resistance and refusing any offers of land in the name of a ceasefire.

Still wonder why this never happened.

They originally didn't want the Mexican territories because they were full of Mexicans, there was a good book I had to read in college that explained it.

Even Lincoln who wanted to free the slaves, didn't want them left in America, he wanted them all shipped to Liberia.

I recall that last part actually. Whether he wanted this done as a humanitarian gesture, out of fear of reprisal, or simply because he did not care for free blacks mucking up his country is anyone's guess.

Any idea what the book for the first part was?


196) His disciples taking his 'body and blood' edict a little too literally, Jesus does not survive the third course of his Last Supper. Its cannibalistic leanings making it extremely unpopular, Christianity is dismissed as a horrid cult that is squashed by Rome.

Silver Crusade

Freehold DM wrote:
196) His disciples taking his 'body and blood' edict a little too literally, Jesus does not survive the third course of his Last Supper. Its cannibalistic leanings making it extremely unpopular, Christianity is dismissed as a horrid cult that is squashed by Rome.

This is kind of amazing.

Cheliax

197) The American colonies join the British Empire and abolish slavery in the early 1800s.


Anne Boleyn, for whatever reason, persuades Henry VIII to spare Sir Thomas Moore, instead of executing him. Moore spends a lengthy spell in the Tower of London during the years when Anne Boleyn is queen, which does at least give him time to get a good deal of writing done. As Anne's star wanes when Henry's attention turns elsewhere, Moore (who was put away for vocally opposing the marriage to Anne) is released from the tower, although by this point he is sick of politics and court life and retires to the country.
Moore does however consent to act as tutor to Henry's children Elizabeth and Edward, and Moore's catholic allegiance is still as strong as ever. When Henry dies and Edward succeeds him, Edward begins to reverse the changes his father made, bringing England back to the Catholic church, although with a sceptical regard for the purity and authority of the church hierarchy. (Moore's friend Erasmus did write exposing and condemning corrupt practices amongst the clergy, let's not forget... Possibly the Catholic Church of England elects its own 'pope' and the ability of the church to interfere in secular matters is held in check. Perhaps even English translations of the bible continue to be allowed.)
Edward is succeeded by Mary who marries Philip II of Spain and is perhaps somewhat over-zealous in trying to bring England back to Rome, and when Mary dies she is succeeded by her half-sister, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth eases off on some of her sister's more fanatical policies, whilst considering the offer of marriage from her late sister's husband, Philip. Despite some crackdowns by Mary, scholarship and learning have been flourishing to some extent in England thanks to work by Moore, and Elizabeth is fully aware of how ruinously expensive some of her father's wars in France were. But, Spain is the super-power of western Europe, and Elizabeth agrees to a union of political convenience with Philip, on condition that particular English liberties and rights (including Magna Carta) are respected.
And the rest, as they say, is history....
With access to formerly English ports, 'Greater Spain' is able to maintain and strengthen its grip on the Netherlands; the Anglo-Spanish armies annexe Scotland when the French, concerned by the growing power of Spain, rely on their old alliance with the Scots, to try and make mischief, and then the Anglo Spanish turn their attention to France, the trouble-makers sandwiched right between them. Philip asserts the nominal claims of his wife to the French crown, and conquors France. In 'The New World', domination by the western European power is unchallengeable, and the continents continue to be looted to support the growing empire.
Eventually, Philip and Elizabeth's descendants push east (Elizabeth and Philip have a large family, Elizabeth becoming known as 'The Mother of Princes'), rolling up countries as far as the borders of Russia. Civil unrest in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries result in 'English freedoms' in the form of a modified version of Magna Carta spreading to provinces across the empire, although the Divine Right of the emperors and empresses of Greater Spain is never effectively contested. Arguements continue to rage about whether the solar-system has the earth or the sun at the centre, and there is a famous calvados distiller (calvados, of course being made from apples ;) ) in seventeenth century England called 'Isaac Newton', whom it is suspected dabbles with alchemy in his spare time.
'New Latin', a mixture of Spanish, English, and Latin becomes the official language of th empire, although it's not unafraid to pirate words from other languages.

I think I'll leave it there...

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