I am having a problem with the link between the Hook Mountain Massacre and Fortress of the Stone Giants.
Namely, if the PCs get settled in Fort Rannick, and actually try to be responsible lords, they might be reluctant to up and travel 450 miles back to Magnimar/Sandpoint. Amoung other things, they may - understandably - feel obligated to stay and protect Turtleback Ferry.
I know that this has come up in other threads, but I would be much obliged if someone can point me to where this problem has been addressed?
I am having a problem with the link between the Hook Mountain Massacre and Fortress of the Stone Giants.
Namely, if the PCs get settled in Fort Rannick, and actually try to be responsible lords, they might be reluctant to up and travel 450 miles back to Magnimar/Sandpoint. Amoung other things, they may - understandably - feel obligated to stay and protect Turtleback Ferry.
I know that this has come up in other threads, but I would be much obliged if someone can point me to where this problem has been addressed?
If I'm not mistaken, at this point in the AP, Fort Rannick isn't under any immediate danger. It wouldn't be until Sand Point is sacked and Mokmurian's army starts mobilizing that it would be in danger. In this case the best defense is a good offense. If they go to Sandpoint and stop his forces there they reduce the chances of him attacking Fort Rannick. They can then take the fight to him as the AP has them do.
Also if their characters were built with any ties at all to Sandpoint, they should feel an obligation to return and help out. If they've done their work properly they should have someone they can leave behind in charge of the operations at the fort. If the fort isn't yet able to be self-sufficient without the pcs there, perhaps it is too early to spring Fortress of the Stone Giants on them?
I think giving the PC's FR is the worst idea in the whole AP. i did not do it.
i actually told my group before we started Burnt Offerings that I will railroad them back to Sandpoint at the end of every Adventure because the bext Adventure willa lways start there.
So at the end of an Adv. the players will anounce that they would like to see the world, travel to Korvosa, explore Absolom.... and I tell them "Sure do that....as you arive at Sandpoint...."
Then we will sing "Working at the Railroad"
Really, no kidding
I agree (to some extent) with the previous poster. I didn't give them Rannick because it might have been hard to lure them back to Sandpoint. Instead I had the Lord-Mayor give them minor noble titles attached to real estate holdings...as luck would have it a new peerage spot had just opened up: the former holdings on one Lord Aldern Foxglove along the Lost Coast. They're receiving most of the land south of Sandpoint...which now mainly consists of a burnt down (still haunted) manor house and several abandoned farms (the tenants having recently battled [and lost] a ghoul fever epidemic). Tied things up nice and neat and brought the PCs back just in time for Mokmurian's springtime assault on Sandpoint.
M
If you have a wizard in the party, this is less of a problem, as teleport should be available by that point.
Our group is odd in many ways, and currently has no Wizard as such:
Cleric 5
Fighter 5*
Sorcerer 5
Rogue 5
Bard 3/Ranger 2
Spellblade 4/Paladin 1
*This is actually Orik Vandercaskin, Nualia's [former] bodyguard. One of the players adopted him as a PC when Nualia killed his Barbarian and then was killed herself a few seconds later. :)
Then again, our RotRL campaign is moving at a glacial pace, due mostly to conflicting player schedules and a rotation between different DMs/campaigns. We started Burnt Offerings back in October and the PCs arrived at Magnimar for the first time last weekend. Desna knows when Fort Rannick will even be an issue for us!
Our group is odd in many ways, and currently has no Wizard as such:
Cleric 5
Fighter 5*
Sorcerer 5
Rogue 5
Bard 3/Ranger 2
Spellblade 4/Paladin 1*This is actually Orik Vandercaskin, Nualia's [former] bodyguard. One of the players adopted him as a PC when Nualia killed his Barbarian and then was killed herself a few seconds later. :)
Then again, our RotRL campaign is moving at a glacial pace, due mostly to conflicting player schedules and a rotation between different DMs/campaigns. We started Burnt Offerings back in October and the PCs arrived at Magnimar for the first time last weekend. Desna knows when Fort Rannick will even be an issue for us!
Not that odd.
Rise of the Runelords is very much about the Varisian People's early history. Modern Varisians strongly favor Sorcery over Wizardry; so the party's arcanist is much more likely to be a Sorcerer.
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When I ran this, the PC group also did not contain a wizard, but did have a sorcerer (and thus no teleport until after Fortress). But remember, scrolls should be readily available in Magnimar (and probably in Galduria).
However, the ranger in the group *did* take over Fort Rannick and re-create the black arrows - in competition with a contingent of Hellknights who were keen to see Fort Rannick come under their control. Distance was a mitigating factor here, giving the ranger enough time to gather new recruits (prisoners from the various Magnimaran holdings in Varisia) and rebuild the fort (there was about 9 months of in-game time between the clearing of the fort and the attack on Sandpoint).
Also, a light horse moves 48 miles in a day (barring terrain difficulties) - that's only 9 days to get back to Sandpoint (less time if they travel by river, but I never was sure that's actually possible).
...less time if they travel by river, but I never was sure that's actually possible.
My players had their party travel by barge from Magnimar to Turtleback Ferry...looked possible on the map so I decided there were a couple of weekly riverboats.
M
Wow. Ninja'd. Hit reply and cibet44 had already answered for me. Although an old-school Mississippi-style riverboat would be cool I went with something more in-period...mule towing and poling. Oh, and a halfling captain and crew. :)
M
...less time if they travel by river, but I never was sure that's actually possible.My players had their party travel by barge from Magnimar to Turtleback Ferry...looked possible on the map so I decided there were a couple of weekly riverboats.
M
We know from Page 8 of the Hook Mountain Massacre, that that barges do travel the Yondabakari and Skull rivers all the way from Magnimar to the Turrtleback Ferry. The journey by this method takes about a week or so.
From the same page, we also know that travel by horseback takes about 9 days. (On foot, it is about 19 days.)
You know, seems to me that it was in the fiction as well? Have to re-read it to be sure but I think I remember that.
M
You know, seems to me that it was in the fiction as well? Have to re-read it to be sure but I think I remember that.
M
Yes. Eando Kline's story from the back sections of the first three adventure paths.
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The described method couldn't be faster than riding, which was the original assertion (and the one in the guide) which I doubt.
The mules couldn't pull faster than say half the speed that a horse could travel because of the drag against the current (not to mention that mules need drivers who would have to walk or ride along their side). Add in the tortuous path that such a river would take and I can't see how it would be faster than just riding a horse to get there, even if they pulled around the clock.
That river has to be close to Missippian or Nileous in size, given the drainage area. I know that the Egyptians sailed on the Nile but it requires a pretty stiff and favourable wind to make progress sailing against a 2-3 knot current with pre-industrial ships.
I would think that the fastest mode of non-magical traffic would be by coach with stations to change horses (and drivers) - 9 days becomes 3 that way by my reckoning.
Fortunately my players don't require that level of verisimilitude. :) We usually montage the travel sequences, dropping back in for maybe a couple of points of interest (for instance, a "lady of the evening" from the "Paradise" was onboard, as was a particulary paranoid ranger type - so we had a little fun with those). They really aren't all that interested in the details of the travel itself. YMMV, of course.
M
The described method couldn't be faster than riding, which was the original assertion (and the one in the guide) which I doubt.
The mules couldn't pull faster than say half the speed that a horse could travel because of the drag against the current (not to mention that mules need drivers who would have to walk or ride along their side). Add in the tortuous path that such a river would take and I can't see how it would be faster than just riding a horse to get there, even if they pulled around the clock.
That river has to be close to Missippian or Nileous in size, given the drainage area. I know that the Egyptians sailed on the Nile but it requires a pretty stiff and favourable wind to make progress sailing against a 2-3 knot current with pre-industrial ships.
I would think that the fastest mode of non-magical traffic would be by coach with stations to change horses (and drivers) - 9 days becomes 3 that way by my reckoning.
This is true. The advantage of a barge is not speed, it is weight.
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Mr. Jacobs had an interresting thought.
I think that the alternative is to have the PCs get wind of giants moving around and then either encounter a scout group that has broken off from the main group with news/evidence of the Sandpoint attack, or to have them hear about the raiding party (Giants and dire bears) moving through their lands and then (if the PCs take the bait) have them track the giants as they march South. Then they could catch up to the Giants just as they split into groups and see the first rocks being thrown at the northern wall.
Either of these scenarios would require altruistic and self-motivated PCs.
I'm planning on a mini-raid near Turtleback Ferry (with evidence found on a giant corpse of a big raid to come in Sandpoint) or the converse - a mini-raid in Sandpoint with evidence of a second raid to come in Turtleback. This would require inserting a ruin near Turtleback (or Bitter Hollow or Pendaka) for the raiding party to be going for but that's pretty easy.
I'm planning on a mini-raid near Turtleback Ferry (with evidence found on a giant corpse of a big raid to come in Sandpoint) or the converse - a mini-raid in Sandpoint with evidence of a second raid to come in Turtleback. This would require inserting a ruin near Turtleback (or Bitter Hollow or Pendaka) for the raiding party to be going for but that's pretty easy.
Well, there is also this HUGE one that the party just repaired - The "Skull's Crossing" dam?
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I'm planning on a mini-raid near Turtleback Ferry (with evidence found on a giant corpse of a big raid to come in Sandpoint) or the converse - a mini-raid in Sandpoint with evidence of a second raid to come in Turtleback. This would require inserting a ruin near Turtleback (or Bitter Hollow or Pendaka) for the raiding party to be going for but that's pretty easy.Well, there is also this HUGE one that the party just repaired - The "Skull's Crossing" dam?
For that to work, Mokmurian would have to have decided to search for Xaliasa sometime after the PCs retake control of the dam because he presumably could have had his minions gather a stone any time when the trolls and Kreegs were there.
That said, I like this idea for a bunch of reasons.
1) I doubt that the dam would be heavily defended so the PCs losses from a raid there would be minimal. This is important to me because I plan on giving the PCs a full Kingmager-style exploration and settlement charter of Fort Rannick and the surrounding lands. I wouldn't be too keen to do too much damage to their fledgling nation.
2) This could set up a scenario where the PCs track the giant raiding party all over Varisia from ruin to ruin, always arriving too late and setting up a scenario where they realize the pattern and plan on setting an ambush in Sandpoint.
3) If everything worked out perfectly, the battle of Sandpoint would become the PCs' idea rather than a pretty big coincidence.
For that to work, Mokmurian would have to have decided to search for Xaliasa sometime after the PCs retake control of the dam because he presumably could have had his minions gather a stone any time when the trolls and Kreegs were there.I'm planning on a mini-raid near Turtleback Ferry (with evidence found on a giant corpse of a big raid to come in Sandpoint) or the converse - a mini-raid in Sandpoint with evidence of a second raid to come in Turtleback. This would require inserting a ruin near Turtleback (or Bitter Hollow or Pendaka) for the raiding party to be going for but that's pretty easy.Well, there is also this HUGE one that the party just repaired - The "Skull's Crossing" dam?
If you want to do the whole "Kingmaker" deal, then this is plausible. It takes a fair amount of time for thier region to be explored/settled/built up/etc. So with the expanded time scale, Mokmurian starting later works pretty well.
So the raid on the dam would initially cause minimal damage, but if the the PCs don't jump on it quickly and aggresively, then any damage to the structure could become a massive problem for them. (This sould be more incentive rather then punishment though.)
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If you want to do the whole "Kingmaker" deal, then this is plausible. It takes a fair amount of time for thier region to be explored/settled/built up/etc. So with the expanded time scale, Mokmurian starting later works pretty well.
So the raid on the dam would initially cause minimal damage, but if the the PCs don't jump on it quickly and aggresively, then any damage to the structure could become a massive problem for them. (This sould be more incentive rather then punishment though.)
I see the raid as being a quick swoop in (kill anyone in the way), take a stone from somewhere and swoop out kind of thing, not an attack on the Dam itself. It would be a bit of a mystery as to why the giants came in and did something weird like that, hopefully causing the PCs to want to figure out why they were up to.
Luckily my party doesn't have this problem (Sorcerer doesn't have teleport, but the party Cleric/Spherewalker does) but if they did, I would have looked to use Shalelu/Jakardros to get them back to Sandpoint. I kept them alive for this very issue.
They would have got wise to the giant activity, and used a sending spell (maybe purchased from an NPC in Magnimar) to contact the PCs asking for them to return
Are either of them alive in your campaign to use them?
Luckily my party doesn't have this problem (Sorcerer doesn't have teleport, but the party Cleric/Spherewalker does) but if they did, I would have looked to use Shalelu/Jakardros to get them back to Sandpoint. I kept them alive for this very issue.
They would have got wise to the giant activity, and used a sending spell (maybe purchased from an NPC in Magnimar) to contact the PCs asking for them to return
Are either of them alive in your campaign to use them?
Actually, yes, both of them. Vale Temros also.
In our campaign Book 4 takes place one year after Book 1 making it relatively simple to handle. I gave my players Fort Rannick (they fought hard enough for it) and during the intervening months they hired administrative staff to run the place, laborers to rebuild it, (Magnimar rewarded their efforts by giving them building materials for the fort) as well as the soldiers to guard it. So when Sandpoint sent the request for them to be the Guests of Honor at their Goblin Day Festival they were able to go knowing that the newly rebuilt fort was in good hands. Also since two of my players hale from Sandpoint they felt an obligation to go.
Another possibility is that they are contacted by Shalelu asking for their assistance due to the increased giant activity. If there is no giant activity around the fort then the players might go to Sandpoint especially if any of the players have ties there.