Owlbear chicks went for 3,000 gp in 3.5e, with a 2,000 gp cost just to have a professional trainer raise them. How much would it be for a white dragon wyrmling?
Note: for these purposes, morality is only important to the precise extent it affects the GP value.
A dragon egg would be pretty crazy considering what the seller would do to get it...
Draconomicon might have more information about this. I know it has rules for getting a dragon wyrmling as a cohort.
Owlbear chicks went for 3,000 gp in 3.5e, with a 2,000 gp cost just to have a professional trainer raise them. How much would it be for a white dragon wyrmling?
Try and locate some business-minded frost giants.
Answer as much as the PC's can get for it.
As the DM, it's my job to set the cap for how much they can get for that.
The morality stuff is important, but I've already got the difficult moral questions side of this equation worked out for my campaign. I just need the base value of the dragon.
It's generally not done...mainly because mortal lifetimes are not long enough to raise dragons... raising one is a project on the order of centuries.
Elves and Dwarves have lives that span 2-3 centuries.
The question is do you want a baby dragon in your campaign? Is so, within reach of the pc's gold. If not then way out of their reach.
The question is do you want a baby dragon in your campaign? Is so, within reach of the pc's gold. If not then way out of their reach.
I think the idea is that the PCs have the dragon and want to sell it.
I had PCs capture a baby red dragon in my campaign and sell it to the dangerously-CN gnome shopkeeper/retired adventurer. They did a trade, though, with each PC getting to select a wondrous item out of his dusty attic.
I would suggest placing the sale value of captured creatures in line with the appropriate treasure reward for their CR (or, in the case of cubs, their parents' CR). That's going to accurately reflect the expected danger associated with the capture, which is the main factor in their value.
We're talking 900 GP each if it's by the wyrmlings' CR, and she's already gotten a huge amount of treasure from the parent. But, if it's by the parent, that would be another 5,800 gp, or 1,450 GP/wyrmling.
I would say 5,000 gold for an egg or fresh wyrmling. I assume they are selling and so the buyer has to worry about training and so forth. This is for a White of course... If it was a red.... the danger alone would put it around 8-10,000 in my opinion.
However as a DM you want to safely limit the player wealth I assume. But I think 5,000 would work what level are the PCs?
you can't train a wolf to do smurfing sheet in real life, and in a fantasy setting you can.
what does the wolf have to do with a dragon egg you ask.
pulling off whacko stunts to get it for starters, and the parent dragon's rage when it comes after you.
better to befriend a wyrmling, than it is to face off with its parent, after all mess with the dragon.....
smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf
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Gold value? As it's a more intelligent creature than whatever is likely to buy it and will require enormous resources to gain any kind of mastery over in time, magic, and money, you'd be justified in lowering its value according to your own whims all the way down to absolute zero. It might be worthless for the sole reason that unlike other creatures, a dragon can only be reared by its own kind. There's no text to back that up, but it's not outside the realm of logic for dragons as a species.
If it is players trying to sell it, I'd prolly sooner have them run in with an angry dragon or cult sooner than a buyer.
Otherwise if a pc wants to buy a wyrmling I'd generally not allow it, unless part of an improved familiar or cohort feat, probably establishing a soft price from a random seller that wants to get rid of it quick.
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The morality stuff is important, but I've already got the difficult moral questions side of this equation worked out for my campaign. I just need the base value of the dragon.
Ok, you seem like you have already set out how they are going to do it an figured out all the other details so what I am going to do it give you an actual answer here. Squabbling about letting it happen or not does not contribute to the conversation any so let me break this down by raw.
In the Bestiary there are rules for the sale of various magical creatures should you run across their young in your travels.
You can sell each Owlbear hatchling at market for 3000g a piece. Following simple math that is 750g per CR.
Pegesus young cost 3000 on the open market. (Eggs at 2000) This puts them at 1000g per CR. (667G for eggs)
Griffon young cost 7000g each. (3500g an egg) 1750 per CR.
Young dragons are a CR 7. This is the youngest age I would assume someone would find any real use for. Before this age you could assume them to have the mind of an infant/toddler. Yes they are intelligent but like any creature they need time to mature cognitively.
At this point they would be worth the following prices
5250g at the rarity and demand of an Owlbear
7000g with with the rarity of a Pegesus
12250g compared to a Griffon
I wouldn't end things here however, as dragons are a thing of awe, danger, and are "Crazy Powerful" later in life, not to mention among the smartest beings in existence. All this not mentioning the dangers associated with acquiring such a thing. These MUST factored into the price, period. The knowledge that these creatures get INCREDIBLY powerful as they mature would cause a hefty bump to the price as well. The sale of a dragon would likely be so rare that it would probably be a nationwide event when one of these goes on sale at a big city slaveyard.
Personally, I think doubling the price of a griffon is about right.
Putting the hatchling at 24,500g in market value. This happens to be just 500g shy of the (suggested) reward level of a 16th party level should expect for major encounters.
... following a few tables back it turns out that a Mature Adult dragon is a CR 16. The appropriate age for a dragon to have a fletch of hatchlings! This encounter is not only level appropriate for a party capable of slaying a Mature (COLOR/TYPE) Mama Dragon, but it rewards about the same payout! Yeah it is an RP encounter and its splits, dives, and skill checks should be level appropriate to that but it FITS! Another win for the pathfinder system and continuity!
Mind you, the party is not likely in a position where they could just DROP one of these puppies off, and the sale (as mentioned) would be a HUGE event. It would take time, and the various parties would have to be assembled. Normal adventurers are not in a position to get this kind of thing orchestrated and would likely have to go through a dealer. This dealer WOULD take a cut, not to mention possible taxes and the like. You can take whatever you feel is about right out at this stage, but I would hesitate taking more than 20% as the party will probably feel like they are being ripped off... that is your call though.
This is all based off the RAW and a little bit of common sense thrown in. Putting the party in a situation where they want to do this would be one REALLY cool encounter. The RP investment for going through with it (which it sounds like you have already planned out) will be a great chance to get your players to do something other than "explore the dungeon" as well.
Also, if my opinion is worth anything I personally wouldn't shy from this encounter at all. Sounds like a BLAST to me. Best of luck
I hope this helped -Sincerely The Metric
Hm. Those figures seem about right. We have a range of 1,500 to 5,000 GP for wyrmlings here, with wild cards being for morality reducing # of buyers, rarity, expense of upbringing, escalating long-term risk and other factors.
Also, I'm not sure how rare white dragon wyrmlings are, as I remember from one source that parents simply leave wyrmlings after birth in the wild to fend for themselves. And it's canonical that Frost Giants use them as pets, rides and guard beasts.
OT: As for campaign-specific factors, it's a single PC game with a precedent of arresting those humanoids she can and reforming a few as well. The PC is 14th level, with the skills necessary to seek out interested buyers. And it's an out for the PC rather than having to laboriously raise/reform a dragon in the campaign's end game or slaughter a baby (dragon).
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How much is that dragon in the window? (screech! screech!)
The one with the scaley tail
How much is that dragon in the window? (screech! screech!)
I do hope that dragon's for sale
I must take a trip to Chileax
And leave my poor sweetheart alone
If he has a dragon, he won't be lonesome
And the dragon will have a good home
How much is that dragon in the window? (screech! screech!)
The one with the scaley tail
How much is that dragon in the window? (screech! screech!)
I do hope that dragon's for sale
I read in the paper there are robbers (roar! roar!)
With light spells that shine in the dark
My love needs a dragon to protect him
And scare them away with one bark
I don't want a bunny or a kitty
I don't want a parrot that talks
I don't want a bowl of little fishies
He can't take a goldfish for a walk
How much is that dragon in the window? (screech! screech!)
The one with the scaley tail
How much is that dragon in the window? (screech! screech!)
I do hope that dragon's for sale
I do hope that dragon's for sale
The Arms and Equipment Guide has rules on dragons as mounts/property. Eggs start at 10,000g, minimum, and training is 5,000g, minimum. Unless they're trained from the moment they hatch, dragons are too smart and too willful to be trained as ordinary mounts regardless of your Handle Animal skill; you're into negotiations with another intelligent creature, and in general you're expected to provide your dragon with a horde of at least 1,000g/HD, minimum (even if they're trained from birth, depending on reading). And the DC to train the buggers is crazy-high, to boot; 25+HD, so you're talking an absolute minimum of... like... 28.
The Arms and Equipment Guide has rules on dragons as mounts/property. Eggs start at 10,000g, minimum, and training is 5,000g, minimum. Unless they're trained from the moment they hatch, dragons are too smart and too willful to be trained as ordinary mounts regardless of your Handle Animal skill; you're into negotiations with another intelligent creature, and in general you're expected to provide your dragon with a horde of at least 1,000g/HD, minimum (even if they're trained from birth, depending on reading). And the DC to train the buggers is crazy-high, to boot; 25+HD, so you're talking an absolute minimum of... like... 28.
OOH! Good stats. Does the Paizo Dragons Revisited have similar stats for this?
Edit: I was going to put down my particular thoughts here, 2,000 gold per HD or for Eggs, 1,000 gold per HD of the Wyrmling inside, but the above posters make too good a point.
On the other hand, make sure the PCs can find methods to keep the eggs in a stable condition, such as the eggs of fire-based dragons surrounded by a roaring blaze to prevent them from going cold and dying or acid-based dragons kept in a warm, moist environment with plenty of plant and animal matter to leech nutrients from.
Still, I reckon that any PCs about to try and 'sell' Dragon 'babies' are going to find a rather dapper-looking old Knight tapping them on the shoulder and going "Ahem, chaps, mind if I sit down at your table? I feel I must talk to you about what you're doing, it's very very wrong, even if they are chromatic Dragons. Oh? What makes me the expert? Well, the care of Dragons is somewhat close to my heart, after all. Perhaps you've heard of me? Bahamut, God of Metallic Dragons and the North Wind? .... Yes, I see you have. Good then, you'll drop all the Hatchlings and Eggs off to my temple in the Drakespine Mountains? Excellent. It's been wonderful talking to you, may the Wind always be at your back!"
That's my kinda Divine Intervention!
Mr. Fishy bids um... some scales that fell off, a broken hickory ax handle and a er, Kumals pride. For your baby dragon.
Mr. Fishy shall call it, Mr. Fishy's Pet Dragon Snowflake.
I use dragon eggs for Ultima brand Humble Pie.......
If you steal one, it's free. I had a silver and red hatch and imprint themselves on me, adopting my NG alignment and treating me like their "mom". I also salvaged a cracked bronze egg and hatched it, with the wyrmling imprinting on me also. Then I took time to "train" them myself, and eventually ended up with some powerful "kids" and bodyguards. My character was long lived, and in my homebrew campaign world me and my friends used al the time. 200 years later (we shifted our timeline of play to use a lot of old campaigns and characters to establish a history) the 3 dragons are bigger, and serve as guardians of a large town and capital of a small nation on a distant island. It was afun times.
(sings)
How MUCH is that dragon in the window?
The one with the weapony breath...
How MUCH is that dragon in the window?
I'm sure that he'd love me to death!