I'd put my money onto a Blackguard Vampire of some variation or a Mystic Theurge Lich.
Another deadly Undead is the Devourer, which can potentially devour a PC whole and leave next to no recourse to raise them barring altering reality itself!
wanted to know between a ghast with the civilized feat or an advanced zombie lord/.
the vampire and liches are top of the foodchain undead and I wasn't asking for that kind of power
*facepalm* this will teach me to not try posting first thing in the morning, sorry.
Ah, I'd have to put the money of the Civilised Ghast, although the Zombie Lord comes damn close. Ghast tend to be a little more flexible in their thinking and combat tactics and possess the capacity to use their weaponry to more advantageous uses.
What book is the civilized feat in?
Honestly, depends on the character, their resources and how clever they are. The slightly psychotic 1st level commoner who's the overlooked chambermaid may be far more deadly to the party than the vampire lord or theurgic lich.
That said, unless the civilized ghast has access to some alchemical deodorant to stop his ghastly stench, the zombie lord is going to have a definite leg up in most plots and schemes due to just needing a cloak and gloves for an effective disguise.
"Zombie (lord) pirate" is the correct answer. Part of the Triumvirate of Uberawesome Unstoppableness along with the Robot/Cyber Ninja and the Alien Cowboy.
"Zombie (lord) pirate" is the correct answer. Part of the Triumvirate of Uberawesome Unstoppableness along with the Robot/Cyber Ninja and the Alien Cowboy.
Don't forget the advanced zombiesaurus rex mount!
That makes me think of a more 'open minded' campaign, people going out to dinner, the guy at the door asks "Living or Unliving, sir?" instead of "Smoking or Non-Smoking, sir?", just in case one of the patrons is a Vampire and is worried about getting hit by a Turn Undead check from the Paladin side of the room.
.... now that I think about it there's a certain symbology to that statement, don't you think?
*Straps on his tin foil-lined spiked helmet* No, my brains, go away.
That makes me think of a more 'open minded' campaign, people going out to dinner, the guy at the door asks "Living or Unliving, sir?" instead of "Smoking or Non-Smoking, sir?", just in case one of the patrons is a Vampire and is worried about getting hit by a Turn Undead check from the Paladin side of the room.
.... now that I think about it there's a certain symbology to that statement, don't you think?
Heh, that'd be awesome. I always wanted to make a necromancer type character from a place where undead are rampant, but because they have tireless workers the people are free to pursue more leisurely pastimes for the most part instead of toiling in the fields and whatnot, and I could totally see something like that happening in such a place.
It'd be best to have a paladin (or undead-hating cleric or whatnot) in the group too, though. I'd love to see how they would react to that, especially when they tried to stop the "terrible infestation" and found the peasants forming a lynch mob because this so-called paragon of virtue and righteousness wants to plunge them into what amounts to indentured servitude and somehow finds this the morally right thing to do. ^_-
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So, Larloch is considerably older than Szass Tam?
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I know Netheril was located in Anauroch, but isn't Thay also an area where Netheril civilization dwelt? And thus, is there any connection between the Larloch and Szass Tam prior to Tam's "descension" into Lichdom? . . . . Maybe similar to the relationship between Vecna and Acererak?
(Oh, and by the by, the undeadliers wouldn't really be able to use their coolest stuff against each other; they'd be immune to most of it. So it would boil down to pure melee combat? In which case my money is on the Zombie Lord)
So, Larloch is considerably older than Szass Tam?
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.I know Netheril was located in Anauroch, but isn't Thay also an area where Netheril civilization dwelt? And thus, is there any connection between the Larloch and Szass Tam prior to Tam's "descension" into Lichdom? . . . . Maybe similar to the relationship between Vecna and Acererak?
(Oh, and by the by, the undeadliers wouldn't really be able to use their coolest stuff against each other; they'd be immune to most of it. So it would boil down to pure melee combat? In which case my money is on the Zombie Lord)
Larloch is several thousand years old; Tam is several hundred (400ish, going on the old 1st ed Dreams of the Red Wizards book). Netheril had colonies and attempted to expand everywhere, but Thay was actually part of Mulhorand up until 400 or so years ago. In order to meet, Tam actually went to the Warlock's Crypt (Larloch's main abode). It's possible Tam was influenced by Larloch, but we know Tam got a couple artifacts from the old Netherese lich, which I believe was the 1st time they met. It's been a long time since I read Spellbound and the Undead/Unholy/Unclean novels and the Unapproachable East and other such stuff.
My timeframe, btw, is based on the very end of 3.5 Realms. Add a few years to account for the transition to 4E as needed.
Oh, and I'm putting money on the ghast, but only by a hair.
It would depend on the amount and type of class levels these foes got. Zombie Lords have class levels.
If they both had the same amount of class levels, I'm going to go with the ghast.
Honestly, depends on the character, their resources and how clever they are. The slightly psychotic 1st level commoner who's the overlooked chambermaid may be far more deadly to the party than the vampire lord or theurgic lich.
That said, unless the civilized ghast has access to some alchemical deodorant to stop his ghastly stench, the zombie lord is going to have a definite leg up in most plots and schemes due to just needing a cloak and gloves for an effective disguise.
Civilized Ghoulishness allows a ghast to suppress their stench. I'm trying to convince my GM to run another monster game so I can try a civilized ghoul or ghast rogue. I imagine a prim and proper gentleman who just happens to eat brains (ala the Brain Eater feat, naturally). Throw in the Warren Digger feat and I imagine him demanding the fighter hold his coat and shoes while he digs under a filthy portcullis to open it from within.
So yeah, +1 for ghast.