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In the seven years I have played D&D, I have fled from a total of two encounters.
First was the Kraken in the lake, which only one party member was foolish enough to approach after being told there was NO wildlife in the area. He died horribly. This was specifically to teach that player that yes, the sorting algorithm of evil doesn't apply here. He had been rather adamant about "the DM won't throw something we can't handle at us". We rewound after the player got the point.
Don't do the above. It ends badly.
The second was when another DM hit our party with a vampire monk around level 12. We were pretty much badasses as a party at this point, but the vampire monk quickly reduced our paladin and a couple other party members to 3 negative levels from instant doom. I called "EVAC" and thanked my stars I had a teleportation prepared. Got us about 100 miles clear.
You want to scare your party? Have a monster that very clearly drains their ability to fight. Bring the wizard and cleric under their respective int/cha scores needed to cast spells. Bring the fighter so low on strength/dex that TWF and Power attack turn off. Give them a clear method of escape. Make the beast extremely slow and obviously unlikely to give chase. Basically, you need to make it rather obvious that it's the best option.
Below level 5, it's best to penalize a score with a minimum score of 1. Don't target constitution, as you may accidentally slay a PC outright.
Well, in the Long Time Group I run, been playing with this group since the late 80s, they don't consider it anything but good tactics to probe an enemy or creature and if after several rounds, they decide if they have bitten off more than they can chew and tactically fall back and regroup and do an After Action Report.
They also are a huge fan of pre scouting if they can. Using Sages, Legend Lore, divinations and the like to try to help nail down the forces they will be engaging.
Lol, they have no problem pulling their teeth out of a fight. If the BBEG they are facing takes their best shots on the Chin, smiles, spits out a few teeth and face palms the fighter, they have no problem doin an EVAC. They can really frustrate me sometimes, but it's all good. They have dug in their heels at times when they knew it was gonna be a close one and did a Tactical Withdrawl to the Rear on others they might have won but were unprepared for.
Sorry for rambling...
My point is: Make it clear that it's not tucking tail in disgrace, it's a tactical regrouping to overcome the BBEG and his evil Minions!! There is NO disgrace in living to fight another day.
Lot's of other folks have good ideas on the Pain method above to get the point across here. While that works sometimes for me, it makes some groups never want to engage BBEGs. Just my experience so be frugal with that but it will work on most.
Hope some of this helps
Have Fun out there!!
~ W ~
Indeed, the Players must be aware that their Characters are not (for the most part, at least!) suicidally foolish. Something has driven away all life but the smallest or the fastest, even the most city-bound PC will eventually figure out that this lush terrain is suddenly devoid of both predator and prey bigger than a mouse. It's either A) Disease B) Poison C) A very successful Monster(s).
Never rush into a battle thinking 'Yeah, we can take this!'. Cautious heroes can tell the bards whatever they want about what happened in the battle. Impatient heroes have to rely upon somebody casting Speak with the Dead on their remains, if any are left after the monsters have finished!
Never be afraid to inflict on the PC a monster or encounter that can drive them to the brink of death, even if it is a CR well over their normal challenge-level. PCs think they're going to go hunting a Very Young Green Dragon and instead realise the Gnomes description of a 'big dragon' was a little too underwhelming for the situation as a Young Adult Green Dragon comes hurtling through the forest after them.
Make it a heart-pounding encounter as the PCs run through treacherous terrain, dodging logs, bracken and fleeing animals as the Green Dragon charges through the forest behind them, splintering trees as it pushes past and crushing boulders under it's talons, roaring like a mad beast just outside of bite-range. Give the PCs a way out, like a cave network that they can escape into that the Green Dragon can't fit, but it can send it's breath weapon in after the PCs and they have to keep running deep into the cave network, potentially meeting up with an unusual alliance of Elvish Druids, Goblin Bandits and Human Loggers already trapped inside.
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Scare modern players? Bust out 1e AD&D, use method one to roll stats. Make them think outside of the character sheet. That would work, I think.
Jesus dude, you are mean.
I'm gonna have nightmares because of this.
I may not be able to play D&D for a month.
Thanks alot!
(Oh hey, by the way, I may be moving about an hour-and-a-half away from you, to Waco, in a couple months.)
I'm also a fan of what I call "the ghostbusters moment": letting the players run and creating a distraction for the villain just long enough for them to hatch a knew scheme while ducking behind some nearby cover.
In my experience, these scenes have some of the best RP that the game can offer.
Haunts have worked really well for me for scaring player's, maybe because it was a new concept that the ddn't understand or know how to defeat. Otherwise just put together an encounter taht they can't win, and kill off a couple of them if they don't get it.
One problem may be a fear of metagaming. I have been in plenty of situations where I (me the player) knew we should run, but there wasnt any reason the character should know it. I know a first level party will not be able to take on 4 trolls but what does the character know? Does he run from any scary challenge? Not much of a hero right?
In our group when something like this comes up we allow 'gut checks', which is kind of an unofficial knowledge check (int+wis+character level) to know something the character may or may not know. In the case of where the party should run but hasnt, i allow a gut check to realize they are in over their heads. Because if you wait for a monster to SHOW them they are in over their heads you probably already have a pc dead, dieing or close, and they soon will not be able to run without abandoning a comrade which almost always forces a fight in my experience.
I think that "adventurers" would hear enough tales in the taverns that they'd have a good idea as to which monster types are out of their leagues. At low levels they should be fighting kobolds and goblins, and even bugbears and gnolls, although the later should be approached with caution and superior numbers.
I even had an NPC in my game say flat out "Gnolls are tough. You're probably going to die." He was the baron's head military trainer whose job it was to train commoners to fight. Never to be confused with "Mr. Optimism".
PCs would probably know that trolls are too tough for novice adventurers, while demons and beholders should be reserved for those of "renoun".
The question is how do you present 'levels' in game knowledge. My level 1 fighter doesnt appear any different from his level 6 counterpart. How does he know what level he is? Sure he swings his sword faster, but how do you take abstract concepts like bab, hit point etc, and convert that to something a character would know? Do they just suddenly know that they are ready to take on trolls at levels 3-5?
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Scare modern players? Bust out 1e AD&D, use method one to roll stats. Make them think outside of the character sheet. That would work, I think.Jesus dude, you are mean.
I'm gonna have nightmares because of this.
I may not be able to play D&D for a month.
Thanks alot!
(Oh hey, by the way, I may be moving about an hour-and-a-half away from you, to Waco, in a couple months.)
You think I'm scary? Wait until you get to Waco. And it's closer to three hours if you take Hwy 6. @165 miles and a lot of speed traps (particularly in Calvert, Hearne and Navisota, but Bryan/College Station can get iffy towards the end of the month as well).
The question is how do you present 'levels' in game knowledge. My level 1 fighter doesnt appear any different from his level 6 counterpart. How does he know what level he is? Sure he swings his sword faster, but how do you take abstract concepts like bab, hit point etc, and convert that to something a character would know? Do they just suddenly know that they are ready to take on...
When I roleplay a fighter (or any combat oriented class. Well ANY class really but especially combat types) I always assume whatever we're facing is better than me and can kill me. This would be the only attitude that leads to a veteran fighter. Any veteran fighter should know Charge! is never the answer unless you have absolutely zero other options or have proven to your satisfaction that this creature is below your capabilities. How can my character know whether that goblin was given the advanced template and 10 levels in wizard by the DM? I don't so I wait. I stalk the monster. Direct my party to advantageous positioning. Send a summoned creature to test it's mettle and serve as a distraction. If a druid sends a bear charging at it and the creature obliterates with a fireball and our party wizard is not skilled enough to cast a comparable spell then we consider a tactical withdrawal. (Different from running!) This caution should extend to any adventurer that intends to survive.
If your PC is meant to be foolish or incompetent then by all means roleplay them appropriately. But it isn't a behavior forced on you by the system.
Any thing that takes the character out of their comfort zone or element will add to the suspense, like fighting in the water, close confines, darkness, or other types of environments. Creatures they are not used to or are extremely exotic, like oozes, worms, insects, or plants. Add to this suspense over time, like the players being wanted, or hunted.
When all of the above comes together at some point in the adventure, don't give them time to think, makes the rounds quick and don't let anyone stall. Force them to think quickly.
In an oriental adventure I ran the characters were chasing a NPC that was kidnapped by an evil emperor. This went on for many months, as the PCs tracked and had numerous encounters trying to save the NPC, and soon the emporer took notice, and started to place wanted posters out for the characters. The adventure finally took place at the capital city , where they discovered the emperor's daughter did not sympathize with her father's plan. They were going to meet her in a public garden via a secret rendez vous, and were preparing to speak with her, when all of the sudden the park was being surrounded by the emperor's detail. Obviously knowing the power of the emperor, and being wanted, they immediately assumed the guards had found them out and it was almost commical to see how fast they tried to flee the scene. But actually, the guards were just doing normal escort, and always guarded public places, when the princess was out.
So my point is don't expect immediate results, and watch the characters over time and take notes on what they fear, added with the correct environment, creatures and timing, it will take little effort.
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Personally I prefer buying a shock collar for each player. Then when they do something "stupid" or their character dies or their character gets hurt badly etc just push the button and shock said player. Soon your players will be just as afraid as their characters would be going into dark and dangerous dungeons. :D
How to make the players afraid?Nude Gaming Night.
speak for yourself I am a stud!!!
ok, hon, you can stop laughing now, you are embarassing me
Personally I prefer buying a shock collar for each player.
is it weird that I find this a little hot?
No, how else would I pay the bills? :)Personally I prefer buying a shock collar for each player.is it weird that I find this a little hot?
check please!
I think I'm in love
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I don't want to make assumptions but I found the best way to scare my players about character death, is to make them really want to play their characters. Work a lot on their backgrounds. Bring up people from their past, give them an idea of where they can go with their character if they live long enough to get there. Make their character mean something to them, and they will do their best to stay alive.
(Of course, you have to make sure the adventure goal means as much to them too, or their character may just go home :) )
The question is how do you present 'levels' in game knowledge. My level 1 fighter doesnt appear any different from his level 6 counterpart. How does he know what level he is? Sure he swings his sword faster, but how do you take abstract concepts like bab, hit point etc, and convert that to something a character would know? Do they just suddenly know that they are ready to take on...When I roleplay a fighter (or any combat oriented class. Well ANY class really but especially combat types) I always assume whatever we're facing is better than me and can kill me. This would be the only attitude that leads to a veteran fighter. Any veteran fighter should know Charge! is never the answer unless you have absolutely zero other options or have proven to your satisfaction that this creature is below your capabilities. How can my character know whether that goblin was given the advanced template and 10 levels in wizard by the DM? I don't so I wait. I stalk the monster. Direct my party to advantageous positioning. Send a summoned creature to test it's mettle and serve as a distraction. If a druid sends a bear charging at it and the creature obliterates with a fireball and our party wizard is not skilled enough to cast a comparable spell then we consider a tactical withdrawal. (Different from running!) This caution should extend to any adventurer that intends to survive.
If your PC is meant to be foolish or incompetent then by all means roleplay them appropriately. But it isn't a behavior forced on you by the system.
For every encounter? I mean besides the fact that lots of encounters are unexpected, you stalk, and test before every single fight? That would be insanely frustrating and detract from the game for me. I would hate having to do that for every fight.
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Simply put, if the players do not love their character, work hard on their backstory, and spend time developing their relationships with the group and other NPCs, they will always be a statblock waiting to be replaced by the next Mario or Luigi in their little video game mind. You may be a story teller, but the players are clearly not roleplaying as much as they're GAMING.
I could be wrong, but I'm a soft DM who hates having to watch players die. It happens, but I hate when it does because we all grow to love these characters.
Try using a specific music track that you only use for encounters where you know your players will not survive. Only use this particular track for doom encounters. Eventually your players will clue in that they should run away and run away Monty Python style. Auditory cues are very powerful.
One time I use the Sephiroth music from FF6 and you should have seen how fast my player took off, in fact he cut off my flavor speech.