In the session I am running, one of my players had the misfortune of having a multi-ton stone golem fall upon his leg. His leg, in response to this...completely snapped in half. Are there rules for this? Is there any way of fixing this short of a regeneration spell? (which specifically mentions broken bones).
Also, the player in question was wearing magical full plate. Would this effect the possibility of a broken bone?
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In the session I am running, one of my players had the misfortune of having a multi-ton stone golem fall upon his leg. His leg, in response to this...completely snapped in half. Are there rules for this? Is there any way of fixing this short of a regeneration spell? (which specifically mentions broken bones).
Also, the player in question was wearing magical full plate. Would this effect the possibility of a broken bone?
I'd let it heal with a heal check and a cure spell. use the heal check to set the bone, and it should be ok.
i don't know of any official rules, but a -2 to leg related skill checks, and a drop in land speed should probably apply
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In the session I am running, one of my players had the misfortune of having a multi-ton stone golem fall upon his leg. His leg, in response to this...completely snapped in half. Are there rules for this? Is there any way of fixing this short of a regeneration spell? (which specifically mentions broken bones).
Also, the player in question was wearing magical full plate. Would this effect the possibility of a broken bone?
I don't even care what the rules say (and to answer your questions... i don't know) if something breaks it takes major magic or a heal check and time to heal the wound. Personally I do both a heal check of 15 for a normal break plus regen or for what you are describing i would say the bone is shattered therefore a dc of between 20 and 30 might be needed then regen. My reasoning is that while the bone may regenerate if you have all these floaties around they could congeal making a mess of the repair (look up broken collarbone.. they heal weird) So (not to write a book) in real world terms it takes 6 weeks for a standard break if your PC's posses cure wounds capabilities you might scale the time down however i might be inclined to do a -to dex and strength after the injury is healed unless a successful heal check AND time or regen has occurred..
Cheers
No, there aren't rules for damage to specific locations of the body. I can't recall what the Paizo team has said on the matter, if anything, but generally they can complicate things and aren't necessarily all that much fun. Hit points are an abstraction of the damage a body takes; by breaking limbs, you're adding a new level of detail to the game. If having a golem land on your leg is an option, then someone should be able to hit that same limb in battle. But obviously getting smacked with a morningstar, while potentially deadly, isn't nearly as devastating overall as getting crushed.
To keep things simple, I'd probably say that regardless of the hit points healed by a cure spell, the character has to receive a DC 15 Heal check. If failed, he's reduced in movement to 1/2 normal and remains that way until a check (allowable 1/day) is made. If successful, he's fine.
In the session I am running, one of my players had the misfortune of having a multi-ton stone golem fall upon his leg. His leg, in response to this...completely snapped in half. Are there rules for this? Is there any way of fixing this short of a regeneration spell? (which specifically mentions broken bones).
Also, the player in question was wearing magical full plate. Would this effect the possibility of a broken bone?
I'd go in the same vein as Lathiira, except I'd treat it like a foot injury as described in the spike growth / spike stone / caltrop spells and rules.
'findel
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I'd go in the same vein as Lathiira, except I'd treat it like a foot injury as described in the spike growth / spike stone / caltrop spells and rules.
'findel
Wow am I realy the only person that thinks this is wimpy. I know it is a game but lets think of our favorite fantasy books/movies and the evil monster/mastermind/warrior or hero slashes through enemies causing uh damage... blood guts severed limbs, the soup in Conan. In my games i want my players to have some sense of fear... or worry. It needs some realism. One of my PC's last night was hit for a crit. The damage alone almost killed him. As DM I could used the pathfinder Crit and fumble deck (great resource) or make up my own results. I had the PC's guts pulled out by an ogre hook. Gruesome, and awesome. The PC was alive albeit incapacitated from battle and the PC's who were previously scoffing at a low level encounter had to take their foe seriously and quickly run their attackers off so that they could aid their fallen comrade.
Now when it was all over I had the PC that was attempting to put his insides back complete a DC 20 heal check. The PC then administered a dose of cure moderate wounds. This worked except for where the second PC's hands interfered with the healing and a second potion was used. Even after this I forced my PC to rest before continuing on.T
o break a bone I think that the damage has to be extreme or undeniable.. I might even allow a PC to sunder a limb but lets see to sunder armor and leg iron or steel has a hardness of 10 and then you take the AC x5 (8+bonusx5= 50?) + skin and clothes has a hardness of 2 and 5 HP(leather) + bone (wood) has a hardness of 5 + 10HP per inch min 4 sooo
Hardness=10+2+5=17 HP=50+5+50=105
If the PC could do it I would let them
Let me know if this sounds about right
Hey, to each their own. To me, hitting individual body parts is a hallmark of Battletech or Rifts, and in those games I don't mind it at all. In D&D, I want to be in the action, not worrying about whether or not I'm going to lie here bleeding for the whole fight because I got half-way eviscerated. For that matter, the guy in your example has a leg that's clearly been broken in half. Would you want to play that character? Maybe. How about if the guy who's doing the healing screws up and can't fix it? Do you want to be that screwed up for an extended period of time?
I like the epic descriptions of battle found in many books, but books are a completely different form of entertainment. I can overcome great odds just like those heroes in the books in Pathfinder without needing to see if I'm nursing a broken limb/broken ribs/concussion/etc.
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PFRPG and it's legacy rulesets (3.5, 3.0, AD&D, etc.) do not really marry particularly successfully with realism. In other words: there's a reason there are no rules for anything like this in the Core Rulebook. That reason, in a nutshell, is: The rules are expansive enough and the game (at times) is unwieldy enough as it is. Start factoring in the need for a PhD in order to correctly disgnose and treat injuries, and you're looking at an extremely cumbersome experience.
All my opinion, of course.
Treat him as either fatigued or exhausted (depending on severity) until he is fully healed of his injury. The condition says they can't run, which mirrors the disability fairly well along with the ability penalty simulating the pain and difficulty of taking actions (such as climbing, jumping, or attacking).
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Here is what Combat and Tactics from 2nd Edition had to say on the matter:
Broken: Broken bones run the gamut from minor fractures that don't hinder a character at all to life-threatening compound fractures. Generally, the previous two injury categories are considered to include minor breaks or cracks; this category is reserved for severe fractures. Broken bones can be mended by a cure serious wounds spell that is devoted just to knitting the bone; unlike grazed, struck, or injured, the character regains no hit points from a spell used in this way. Broken bones heal naturally as if they were 20d6 (average 70) lost hit points, so bed rest in the care of a proficient healer is a really good idea if the injured character is planning on resuming his adventuring career anytime soon.
Broken arms reduce a character to 75% of his normal hit points. Broken ribs or legs reduce a character to 50% of his normal hit points. Any other broken bones reduce a character to 25% of his normal hit points.
Crushed, Shattered, or Destroyed: Limbs that suffer this kind of catastrophic injury may never be usable again; hits to the torso, abdomen or head of this magnitude are often lethal. If the victim survives, he will never naturally recover to his normal self. A limb damaged this way will be useless for the rest of his life, and hits anywhere else will leave the victim incapacitated. The victim will be bedridden for at least one to eight months before he can even regain a semblance of mobility.
A cure critical wounds spell or other healing magic capable of restoring 20 hp of damage can repair the damage of this kind of injury. In addition, the bones of the affected area (if any) are assumed to be broken and may require another application of healing magic to repair.
Destroyed shoulders, hips, or limbs reduce the victim to 50% of his normal maximum hit points. Any other wounds of this magnitude reduce the victim to 25% of his normal total.
Movement Penalties: Hits to the legs and body may penalize a character's ability to move. Usually, this is expressed as "1/2 move", "1/3 move", and so on. If the character's movement is limited, he may not charge, run, or sprint; he can only move by using the reduced rate. A character with no movement at all can still ride a mount with difficulty, or drag himself on the ground with an effective movement rate of 1.
This does make it more difficult to deal with from both a player and DM perspective. It certainly adds more bookkeeping and I'm not sure it's worth the effort. But there you go, this is one way to handle the situation.
I'd treat a broken bone, especially a major break like the leg-bones, as 'exagerated constitution damage', meaning that it will take at least a week per amount of constitution you believe the player has lost for the body to recuperate. Cure spells set the bone, but it's still quite a traumatic injury and I'd also argue that the Cure series of spells would do little more than just mesh the bones together, not actually 'heal' the break. It will take time for the body to fully recover from this.
For a leg, say ... 3 Constitution Damage, 3 weeks until his leg is up to snuff, or 10-11 days with complete bed-rest, he moves at -10 feet per round and cannot run or charge. It's a crippling injury, treat it as such. Cure spells allow him to wander around, but it would take a Heal or Regeneration spell to actually make the group snap their fingers, remove the injury outright and carry on.
Time for the party to sit back and start crafting stuff? Could be a good excuse for it, and the character (depending upon what class he is) can still theoretically do some crafting and/or other stuff while healing up, even if it is just scoring sympathy wenching, brooding over his 'slow reflexes' and coming up with a training regime that will enhance them or writing up shopping lists for the other players for the next leg (haha) of their adventure.
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I'd treat a broken bone, especially a major break like the leg-bones, as 'exagerated constitution damage', meaning that it will take at least a week per amount of constitution you believe the player has lost for the body to recuperate. Cure spells set the bone, but it's still quite a traumatic injury and I'd also argue that the Cure series of spells would do little more than just mesh the bones together, not actually 'heal' the break. It will take time for the body to fully recover from this.
I like repurposing it as strength damage. Also note that falling objects have rules for hit point damage dealt with regard to distance fallen. Strength damage reduces effectiveness in melee, hobbles them if they wear armor, etc. That seems extremely appropriate.
In doing this you give them an out via restoration and cures. (If a group is burning 5-6 spells to get a guy back out of a broken leg and has to stop for 2-3 days? That seems enough of an impediment in a world where people can light things on fire with their mind.)
Given that there aren't any rules for specific damage to specific bodily locations, I'd say that either the game designers didn't want to fool with it, or they purposely left it up to the DMs.
I lean toward the latter, and with everyone chiming in at oppposite ends of the spectrum, I think that's probably how it will always be. Some like the fast-paced, action based feel of the "game" and others like the hard-knuckled, gritty feel of the "world" and still others fall somewhere in between. It's a preference thing, and one size does NOT fit all.
Personally, I really like the gritty feel. I like the idea that broken bones are a possibility, that spilt guts could happen, and that one might get his eye poked out. Injuries like that just aren't fixed by a little acolyte magic. It takes high arcana or the steeled hands of a master healer (and days in the sick ward). Something like that. Yes, it interrupts the campaign, but that's the gritty feel I like. It actually puts a higher intensity on things, knowing that your plans are delayed because someone broke his leg. Or, you splint the thing and keep going, and the PC develops a limp as his leg resets incorrectly. Legends are born of heros with a patch over his eye, a long scar running across his face, a missing hand, a voicebox damaged by a particularly hard shot to the throat, etc.
But, hey...that's just how I like it in my world. That's certainly not how it MUST be.
If you are looking for some ways that Paizo has addressed the issue, their Critical Hit Deck has a few things in there:
Broken Leg: Normal damage and 1d4 Con and Dex damage. Target's speeds are reduces by half until healed.
Cracked Rib: Normal Damage and 1d3 Con damage and target is fatigued.
Shattered Jaw: Normal damage and 1 Con damage. Target cannot speak or bite until healed.
Shattered Hand: Normal damage and 1d2 Con and Str damage. Hand useless until healed.
Broken Ribs: Double damage and target cannot heal naturally for 1d4 days.
Skull Crush: Double damage and 2d6 Int drain (Fort half)
Cracked Knee: Normal damage and 1d2 Dex damage. Target's base land speed reduces to 10 feet until healed.
Save: The save DC is equal to the confirmation roll used to score the critical hit (after all modifiers have been applied).
Until healed: This always refers to the additional damage done or bleed effect, not the weapon damage.
This can give you an idea of how the designers think these things should affect characters.
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Try taking a look at the broken item stuff. I can imagine that a broken bone would function similarly to a broken club :p
Yep like sundering a club surrounded by flesh and sometimes armor. The difficulty comes in regards to healing. A mend spell effectivly fixes a broken club but lets face it it isn't complex. There are no nerves no tendons, muscles and so on. Therefor is a cure light, med or serious? spell good enough? After all low lev characters can cast cure light soo hmm. Maybe a compromise.. see below
I'd treat a broken bone, especially a major break like the leg-bones, as 'exaggerated constitution damage', meaning that it will take at least a week per amount of constitution you believe the player has lost for the body to recuperate. Cure spells set the bone, but it's still quite a traumatic injury and I'd also argue that the Cure series of spells would do little more than just mesh the bones together, not actually 'heal' the break. It will take time for the body to fully recover from this.
For a leg, say ... 3 Constitution Damage, 3 weeks until his leg is up to snuff, or 10-11 days with complete bed-rest, he moves at -10 feet per round and cannot run or charge. It's a crippling injury, treat it as such. Cure spells allow him to wander around, but it would take a Heal or Regeneration spell to actually make the group snap their fingers, remove the injury outright and carry on.
I like this, especially if you combine it with the info from Piazo's Critical Hit Deck (see below) I just think there are times a DM should say "Whoa, that massive boulder that just crushed you did 65 damage... AND broke your leg". Instead of "A boulder rolled over you it hurt. What do you want to do.. oh by the way the rules don't state anything so even though it hit you for massive damage you aren't disabled or even knocked prone so swing away buddy."
If you are looking for some ways that Paizo has addressed the issue, their Critical Hit Deck has a few things in there:
Broken Leg: Normal damage and 1d4 Con and Dex damage. Target's speeds are reduces by half until healed.
Cracked Rib: Normal Damage and 1d3 Con damage and target is fatigued.
Shattered Jaw: Normal damage and 1 Con damage. Target cannot speak or bite until healed.
Shattered Hand: Normal damage and 1d2 Con and Str damage. Hand useless until healed.
Broken Ribs: Double damage and target cannot heal naturally for 1d4 days.
Skull Crush: Double damage and 2d6 Int drain (Fort half)
Cracked Knee: Normal damage and 1d2 Dex damage. Target's base land speed reduces to 10 feet until healed.
Save: The save DC is equal to the confirmation roll used to score the critical hit (after all modifiers have been applied).
Until healed: This always refers to the additional damage done or bleed effect, not the weapon damage.
This can give you an idea of how the designers think these things should affect characters.
Personally I would add at least some Con damage to any broken bone and thus create a repair time regardless of most magic.
Sooo Maybe either the DM can choose the effect broken bone, the PC or villan can attempt a sunder (and apply damage as i posted earlier) to attempt to sever a limb or rib. Or, and the DM can just allow it to only occur in the case of a crit and the circumstances seem reasonable.Then once broken the DM could use the Piazo Crit Deck rules for effect and then provide some healing but keep the Con Damage and effects until time or a restoration spell is burnt up... a bit cumbersome but it would work. Oh and I would imagine it would be fairly rare as well. In my campaign I kind of made the heal rule up on the fly but I suppose it should be hammered out for continuity.
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so boulders are dealing con damage now? rulings like that totally change game dynamics.
if you are going to start making broken bone rulings, where do we draw the line? its like called shots and the mess they bring. there is no reason to not constantly try and just cave in skulls with a mace, or smash legs to immobilize. the moment players learn they can do these things, combat just gets stupid
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so boulders are dealing con damage now? rulings like that totally change game dynamics.
if you are going to start making broken bone rulings, where do we draw the line? its like called shots and the mess they bring. there is no reason to not constantly try and just cave in skulls with a mace, or smash legs to immobilize. the moment players learn they can do these things, combat just gets stupid
I understand your concern here and while I agree in some manner of speaking the game has to have some basic physics. If you want to play a simple HP, AC, Attack Bonus game all the power to you. I don't, I like realism even in fantasy and science fiction. If a four hundred pound object hits a 130 lb sorceress there should be consequences. What you do in your games is awesome and I have no problem with it. Some people play the game differently and use house rules others don't. Oh and the pathfinder crit deck gives DM's at least a framework of how to deal with some of these physics questions. I am even ok with called shots I just make the modifiers veeery hard and the results are ok. After all, if my PC's want to do it then the bad guys can too.
so boulders are dealing con damage now? rulings like that totally change game dynamics.
if you are going to start making broken bone rulings, where do we draw the line? its like called shots and the mess they bring. there is no reason to not constantly try and just cave in skulls with a mace, or smash legs to immobilize. the moment players learn they can do these things, combat just gets stupid
You're exactly right about the potential for a house rule to "totally change game dynamics." That is a real concern, and so introducing something like broken legs should be weighed carefully. It can bring complexity to combat (which is arguably complex enough), and it can result in long delays in the game during which the damaged PC's player has nothing to do. All this must be considered when increasing the sense of realism--the verisimiltude.
But combat only "gets stupid" when the DM allows it. Players will always stretch the envelope of what's allowed, bend the rules to their favor, and conveniently forget some penalty...in short, try to win. But the experienced DM can introduce a deeper level of realism (i.e. broken legs from 100-ft falls or massive boulders, gouged eyes from called shots, deep scars that never quite heal, etc) to great effect, creating sometimes challenging but always memorable characters.
It's all in how you want to play...
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I'd only give those condituions on confirmed criticals. That's pretty much the ideal place to have injuries over and above just hit point damage. If that boulder was thrown by a giant or a trap and you roll nat 20 then fine go ahead and draw a card... but other than that it suck for a player to have an injury like that by GM fiat. Let the luck of the draw be the decider.
--Vrock, Paper, Scissors.
This thread is giving me flashbacks to a Rune Quest character I ran a dogs age ago.
We called him "lefty" following a bad fumble with a 2-h axe.
We called him "righty" after some runic healing and a run in with a giant venus flytrap.
We called him "shorty" after more major healing and a run in with a glaive armed Broo.
Final score. 2 arms and one leg lost. BRP cann be quite bloody.