Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

Most Powerful classes between 4-6 level


Advice


Hello All,
I was just wondering what classes are better than others between 4th through 6th level? It looks like to me Barbarians are pretty ridiculous with a 2H Weapon and power attack, but I would like to hear other ideas of who would be better and why? Keep in mind this is only for levels 4-6.
Thanks,

Andoran

Droods are pretty good in this range. They have access to a decent list of animal companions that just got a boost (ape comes to mind), they have wildshape, spontaneous casting some decent summoning spells, etc.

Of course druids are pretty powerful in any level range.

Archery fighters will be pretty decent as well. They will have the money (through WBL) for a composite LB to go with their strength and (if human) will have 6-9 feats to spend in this range.

Cheliax

In our party fighter ruled the day; as stated the Druid was slightly less powerful, but quite strong. Ultimately high strength rules the day at those levels; fighters get the edge particularly at 6 for the iterative; and edge out barbarian because of their massive ACs. Archery vs Two hander really depends on your environment (outdoor vs indoor). Pallys rule for similar reasons; actually as a two-hander I would rule for Pally for the staying power.

Mages tend to be slightly better than bards there (they access haste at 5, and being that the melée are ruling right now, this makes them rule 50-100% more). Healing is more important here; so a cleric would round out the party.

So ultimately, I think the best 4-man is:

Pally 2-hand
Fighter archer
Cleric / Druid (both have advantages)
Mage


At those levels, and with the right spell list, a Wizard or Sorcerer can auto-win a sizable number of encounters.

Other jobs have their uses, but no one really cares that a fighting class can do a pile of damage per round when the enemies are basically neutralized on round 1 (or surprise round).


4-6 is still early for a wizard.

Sorcerers are coming into their own.

I'd say Fighters and Fighter Rogues (with sneak) are competing to do the most reliable damage. Of course if you include healing ability the Cleric is also right up there.

Sigurd


Sigurd wrote:

4-6 is still early for a wizard.

Sorcerers are coming into their own.

I'd say Fighters and Fighter Rogues (with sneak) are competing to do the most reliable damage. Of course if you include healing ability the Cleric is also right up there.

Sigurd

Sorcerers and Wizards are auto-winning encounters at level 1, but fighting classes also auto-win at those levels with pure damage. By 4-6, the spellcasters are clearly ahead.

Of course, that's only if you pick and use the right spells. Some people really will pick Alarm.

Andoran

K wrote:
Sigurd wrote:

4-6 is still early for a wizard.

Sorcerers are coming into their own.

I'd say Fighters and Fighter Rogues (with sneak) are competing to do the most reliable damage. Of course if you include healing ability the Cleric is also right up there.

Sigurd

Sorcerers and Wizards are auto-winning encounters at level 1, but fighting classes also auto-win at those levels with pure damage. By 4-6, the spellcasters are clearly ahead.

Of course, that's only if you pick and use the right spells. Some people really will pick Alarm.

Considering how often I've been ambushed by reinforcements when in a dungeon.. I probably could spare a slot for alarm by level 4-6. We solved this in one dungeon by taking supplies from the goblins we raided and using them to rig an impromptu trap (thank goodness the rogue had craft[traps]) along the route that reinforcements would arrive from. Sure enough, a couple minutes later we heard screaming from down the hall.

I'd probably go with paladin in that level range, as by level 4 they've got all their main abilities (besides bond). A decent str and cha leads you to very good saves and still able to stand toe-to-toe with the fighter/barbarian on average damage (assuming a decent mix of evil and non-evil opponents).

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'd rather get scrolls of Alarm at 4-6th level, and save my slots for multi-purpose spells.

Andoran

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'd rather get scrolls of Alarm at 4-6th level, and save my slots for multi-purpose spells.

I always forget about scrolls... I should play a wizard next time I get to be a player so I'll remember.

Osirion

K wrote:
Sigurd wrote:

4-6 is still early for a wizard.

Sorcerers are coming into their own.

I'd say Fighters and Fighter Rogues (with sneak) are competing to do the most reliable damage. Of course if you include healing ability the Cleric is also right up there.

Sigurd

Sorcerers and Wizards are auto-winning encounters at level 1, but fighting classes also auto-win at those levels with pure damage. By 4-6, the spellcasters are clearly ahead.

Of course, that's only if you pick and use the right spells. Some people really will pick Alarm.

Some people also like being surprised I guess, I dunno.

Some people like actual roleplaying, not just "I KILLED TEH ENTYRE DUNJUN IN LIKE 5 MIN HAR HAR HAR".


Bomanz wrote:
K wrote:
Sigurd wrote:

4-6 is still early for a wizard.

Sorcerers are coming into their own.

I'd say Fighters and Fighter Rogues (with sneak) are competing to do the most reliable damage. Of course if you include healing ability the Cleric is also right up there.

Sigurd

Sorcerers and Wizards are auto-winning encounters at level 1, but fighting classes also auto-win at those levels with pure damage. By 4-6, the spellcasters are clearly ahead.

Of course, that's only if you pick and use the right spells. Some people really will pick Alarm.

Some people also like being surprised I guess, I dunno.

Some people like actual roleplaying, not just "I KILLED TEH ENTYRE DUNJUN IN LIKE 5 MIN HAR HAR HAR".

You know... I really do not get the hostility here.

Osirion

You did well at adding inflection and tone to my post, thank you.


Bomanz wrote:
K wrote:
Sigurd wrote:

4-6 is still early for a wizard.

Sorcerers are coming into their own.

I'd say Fighters and Fighter Rogues (with sneak) are competing to do the most reliable damage. Of course if you include healing ability the Cleric is also right up there.

Sigurd

Sorcerers and Wizards are auto-winning encounters at level 1, but fighting classes also auto-win at those levels with pure damage. By 4-6, the spellcasters are clearly ahead.

Of course, that's only if you pick and use the right spells. Some people really will pick Alarm.

Some people also like being surprised I guess, I dunno.

Some people like actual roleplaying, not just "I KILLED TEH ENTYRE DUNJUN IN LIKE 5 MIN HAR HAR HAR".

What. This has nothing to do with roleplaying.

Let's not go down that road :|

I've yet to use alarm the spell or the scroll. That's what taking turns on watch is for. Alternately, that's what the warforged is for. Alternately, that's what the Thri-kreen is for.

Osirion

You're right. My bad. I forgot that Thri-kreen are original content for the PRPG. Same for the Warforged. And its always terribly convenient for everyone to take a turn on watch. How silly of me.

No no no, you guys are right, there are never any applications where Alarm would be useful ever, its just there as filler, and anyone taking it as a spell is obviously a total ruh-tard.


Bomanz wrote:

You're right. My bad. I forgot that Thri-kreen are original content for the PRPG. Same for the Warforged. And its always terribly convenient for everyone to take a turn on watch. How silly of me.

No no no, you guys are right, there are never any applications where Alarm would be useful ever, its just there as filler, and anyone taking it as a spell is obviously a total ruh-tard.

Two words.

System Mastery.

Monte Cook wrote a huge article on the subject. To put it simply, the game was designed to have good choices and bad choices, and reward people for figuring it out.

Osirion

I concede, there is no possibly way Alarm spell should ever be taken and anyone who does needs their roleplaying license revoked and all books confiscated.


Bomanz wrote:
I concede, there is no possibly way Alarm spell should ever be taken and anyone who does needs their roleplaying license revoked and all books confiscated.

*sigh* Bomanz, your taking this discussion way out of context.

Nobody here has said that it's wrong to take Alarm, only that it's a comparatively weak choice when it grants a benefit nobody needs compared to other aspects.

Also, how many fantasy books do you read that have people casting some sort of spell to serve as an alarm? By contrast, how many have groups of people taking watches?

I've never read a story with a mage casting a spell like Alarm, it's just not part of the genre.

If somebody wants the spell, they're welcome to take it. I would REALLY suggest against it as a sorcerer, but a wizard has plenty of space in his spell book, and heck, at the high levels he'll probably go ahead and cast a few alarms for the heck of it.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Bomanz wrote:
I concede, there is no possibly way Alarm spell should ever be taken and anyone who does needs their roleplaying license revoked and all books confiscated.

Dude, seriously, could you tone down the hostility? I don't get where it's coming from, but being nasty because some people prefer mundane solutions to a problem you apply spells to is pointless. Accusing those that prefer arcane offense to arcane defense of being idiots/bad/wrong/unfun players is likewise not helpful here.

ON topic, levels 4-6 are right in what many consider the sweet spot of gaming. All single classes are beginning to come into their own. About the only general character category that might be significantly less powerful is a multiclassed character.


I've used the Alarm spell before -- I used it to defeat a fighter once.


Abraham spalding wrote:
I've used the Alarm spell before -- I used it to defeat a fighter once.

Story time?


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
I've used the Alarm spell before -- I used it to defeat a fighter once.
Story time?

Why not?

The party had split up to cover more ground -- the rogue and I had found a sleeping troll and I sat an alarm spell to warn us if it woke up -- I told the rogue the password but no one else -- we met up with the rest of the party where the fighter and I (who never got along in the first place and why I had the alarm spell prepped -- I didn't trust him) had some back and forth. He didn't like what I called his mother (he was a half orc so it was true) and threatened to kill me. I ran he chased and we ended up in the room before the sleeping troll -- the fighter sat off the alarm spell which woke up the troll and I cast invisibility to hide from the both of them -- the troll killed the fighter, found no one else to attack and went back to his room -- I left and simply told the party that I had won and the fighter had left to find his fortunes else where -- no one else liked the fighter anyways so no questions were asked.


kyrt-ryder wrote:

Also, how many fantasy books do you read that have people casting some sort of spell to serve as an alarm? By contrast, how many have groups of people taking watches?

I've never read a story with a mage casting a spell like Alarm, it's just not part of the genre.

Actually, Polgara used the concept a few times while they slept overnight, to alert her if Grolims might be wandering through the area.

Not to play devil's advocate, mind you. I'm mainly on the side that taking minor utility spells like this will usually weaken the spellcaster's net productive daily output far more often than they will prove to be actually worthwhile.

I would probably support a houserule concept that lets minor utility spells be taken separately from powerful game-altering spells. Such as, Fireball or Teleport might require a whole slot, but dinky utility stuff might require only 1/2 of a slot, so you could put another dinky utility spell in there too. Or some other such weirdness. I would likely also support that for the weak, sickly, unloved feats, too.

Then again, using Alarm as a trigger for a nasty magical trap definitely has its uses...


Abraham spalding wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
I've used the Alarm spell before -- I used it to defeat a fighter once.
Story time?

Why not?

The party had split up to cover more ground -- the rogue and I had found a sleeping troll and I sat an alarm spell to warn us if it woke up -- I told the rogue the password but no one else -- we met up with the rest of the party where the fighter and I (who never got along in the first place and why I had the alarm spell prepped -- I didn't trust him) had some back and forth. He didn't like what I called his mother (he was a half orc so it was true) and threatened to kill me. I ran he chased and we ended up in the room before the sleeping troll -- the fighter sat off the alarm spell which woke up the troll and I cast invisibility to hide from the both of them -- the troll killed the fighter, found no one else to attack and went back to his room -- I left and simply told the party that I had won and the fighter had left to find his fortunes else where -- no one else liked the fighter anyways so no questions were asked.

LOL. That's pretty funny. Did the player take it well or was he pissed?


Oh we were a long term group so it went over well.


I would suggest looking at the artificer. At level five, your kinda like a sorcerer in that you have a very small selection of spells you can cast 4 times a day each.

HOWEVER, you get 3/4 bab, all your necessary creation feats as class feats, access to both divine and arcane lists, and custom magic items.

Basically your overall ability matters what you decide to make your items do, and what items you make yourself. If you get yourself some boots that cast expedious retreat, enlarge person, and bull's strength on you 4 times a day, and a +2-3 Longspear I don't see the average fighter doing far better then you. And hell, stuff gets shady, toss of a fireball or 2 and put the fighter in his place.


pain4gains wrote:

I would suggest looking at the artificer. At level five, your kinda like a sorcerer in that you have a very small selection of spells you can cast 4 times a day each.

HOWEVER, you get 3/4 bab, all your necessary creation feats as class feats, access to both divine and arcane lists, and custom magic items.

Basically your overall ability matters what you decide to make your items do, and what items you make yourself. If you get yourself some boots that cast expedious retreat, enlarge person, and bull's strength on you 4 times a day, and a +2-3 Longspear I don't see the average fighter doing far better then you. And hell, stuff gets shady, toss of a fireball or 2 and put the fighter in his place.

Artificers spend gold to get just a few of the abilities of a Wizard or Sorcerer, making Wizards and Sorcerers better in all ways. Heck, considering that a Wizard or Sorcerer can just take item creation feats, he can even have more magic items than an Artificer since he's not paying gold to use level-appropriate spells. Add a little UMD, and a Wizard or Sorcerer can even make items using divine spells from scrolls.

The 3/4 BAB is also pointless at those levels. It's literally a 1-2 point difference which you might not even notice.

Basically, at higher levels an Artificer can do some broken things if you rDM is not paying attention. Otherwise, it's a terrible class more suited to an NPC you get with Leadership.

Grand Lodge

Abraham spalding wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
I've used the Alarm spell before -- I used it to defeat a fighter once.
Story time?

Why not?

The party had split up to cover more ground -- the rogue and I had found a sleeping troll and I sat an alarm spell to warn us if it woke up -- I told the rogue the password but no one else -- we met up with the rest of the party where the fighter and I (who never got along in the first place and why I had the alarm spell prepped -- I didn't trust him) had some back and forth. He didn't like what I called his mother (he was a half orc so it was true) and threatened to kill me. I ran he chased and we ended up in the room before the sleeping troll -- the fighter sat off the alarm spell which woke up the troll and I cast invisibility to hide from the both of them -- the troll killed the fighter, found no one else to attack and went back to his room -- I left and simply told the party that I had won and the fighter had left to find his fortunes else where -- no one else liked the fighter anyways so no questions were asked.

Okay, I admit, that is a good use of alarm :) .


kyrt-ryder wrote:

Two words.

System Mastery.

Monte Cook wrote a huge article on the subject. To put it simply, the game was designed to have good choices and bad choices, and reward people for figuring it out.

Could you link to that? Google's not helping me find it. I'd be very interested in reading it.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
thegreenteagamer wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

Two words.

System Mastery.

Monte Cook wrote a huge article on the subject. To put it simply, the game was designed to have good choices and bad choices, and reward people for figuring it out.

Could you link to that? Google's not helping me find it. I'd be very interested in reading it.

Here it is

By the way, the search context was: +montecook.com +"System Mastery"


I DM'd a game with a single player who ran a wizard. He used alarm a lot. I admit that the more friends you have, the less useful alarm becomes. But if you're alone, or with people you don't trust, alarm has its uses. I would assume someone in situations where he/she needs alarm will take it. Most people will take another spell. Isn't that the way it should be?


kyrt-ryder wrote:


I've never read a story with a mage casting a spell like Alarm, it's just not part of the genre.

Harry Potter, modern fantasy, but fantasy no less.

Movie plot spoiler:
In last book they cast lots of abjuration like spells before camping in the woods. Including spells with effects similar to Alarm and Tiny Hut.

Humbly,
Yawar


K wrote:
pain4gains wrote:

I would suggest looking at the artificer. At level five, your kinda like a sorcerer in that you have a very small selection of spells you can cast 4 times a day each.

HOWEVER, you get 3/4 bab, all your necessary creation feats as class feats, access to both divine and arcane lists, and custom magic items.

Basically your overall ability matters what you decide to make your items do, and what items you make yourself. If you get yourself some boots that cast expedious retreat, enlarge person, and bull's strength on you 4 times a day, and a +2-3 Longspear I don't see the average fighter doing far better then you. And hell, stuff gets shady, toss of a fireball or 2 and put the fighter in his place.

Artificers spend gold to get just a few of the abilities of a Wizard or Sorcerer, making Wizards and Sorcerers better in all ways. Heck, considering that a Wizard or Sorcerer can just take item creation feats, he can even have more magic items than an Artificer since he's not paying gold to use level-appropriate spells. Add a little UMD, and a Wizard or Sorcerer can even make items using divine spells from scrolls.

The 3/4 BAB is also pointless at those levels. It's literally a 1-2 point difference which you might not even notice.

Basically, at higher levels an Artificer can do some broken things if you rDM is not paying attention. Otherwise, it's a terrible class more suited to an NPC you get with Leadership.

Its free for their weird science creations. 3/4bab is hit, which any way you slice it is important in combat. Sure, its only a difference of +1 at level 6, but remember that at level the +2 hit bonus from giving someone bull's strength can be a major difference. Every little bit helps.

The point is the artificer also can make any item, starting at a low level, and doesnt need to spend feats on them. He can put his leveling feats into combat abilities, where a wizard or sorcerer needs to invest his leveling feats into creation feats. He can also dismantle random items and make specific items. Meaning he gets the exact item he wants sooner. How is the artificer spending money to use level appropriate spells? He just needs a UMD check to emulate.

Really not seeing how any of that post matters. Sure, the wizard or sorcerer could pick up levels of umd, but it's not going to really work for most wizards and is a sorcerer going to spend his one of his 2-3 skills on umd? So the sorc can UMD divine scrolls that he what? found/bought? While the artificer can make a divine (WS)item he can use multiple times a day, make a divine wand, make a divine staff, or even write up those divine scrolls that the sorcerer is buying.

Again, its power is limited by player intelligence and creativity. That may explain why you think it's weak.

Also, don't throw out the fact and artificer works well as a skill monkey.


YawarFiesta wrote:

Harry Potter, modern fantasy, but fantasy no less.

** spoiler omitted **

Of course, I'm trying to block out that section of the book from my memory. Nothing's better than reading about the heroes bickering far from the action, while off-screen amazing events are occurring. For me, your example is a mark against the use of alarm-like spells.


roguerouge wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:

Harry Potter, modern fantasy, but fantasy no less.

** spoiler omitted **
Of course, I'm trying to block out that section of the book from my memory. Nothing's better than reading about the heroes bickering far from the action, while off-screen amazing events are occurring. For me, your example is a mark against the use of alarm-like spells.

Alarm is low cost abjuration that does its job. It doesn´t replace buddies since only has 20 ft radius, but is fine for closing blind spots and/or shut doors.

Humbly,
Yawar

Qadira

Bomanz wrote:


Some people like actual roleplaying, not just "I KILLED TEH ENTYRE DUNJUN IN LIKE 5 MIN HAR HAR HAR".

Ha ha.

Andoran

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
I've used the Alarm spell before -- I used it to defeat a fighter once.
Story time?

Why not?

The party had split up to cover more ground -- the rogue and I had found a sleeping troll and I sat an alarm spell to warn us if it woke up -- I told the rogue the password but no one else -- we met up with the rest of the party where the fighter and I (who never got along in the first place and why I had the alarm spell prepped -- I didn't trust him) had some back and forth. He didn't like what I called his mother (he was a half orc so it was true) and threatened to kill me. I ran he chased and we ended up in the room before the sleeping troll -- the fighter sat off the alarm spell which woke up the troll and I cast invisibility to hide from the both of them -- the troll killed the fighter, found no one else to attack and went back to his room -- I left and simply told the party that I had won and the fighter had left to find his fortunes else where -- no one else liked the fighter anyways so no questions were asked.

That is an example of why D&D is so much fun. There is the "standard" use for many spells and then there is the uses such as above.

My most memorable different use of spells was in 2e playing in Athas (Dark Sun). We had no cleric and no water and were in the deep desert. Wizard casts a hemispherical Wall of Force upside down, effectively making a large bowl(doesn't say it can't be). Then casts Wall of Ice in the bowl, followed by Fireball to melt it. I think technially the Wall of Ice is magic* and would have left no trace but the DM liked the thinking and we all got water. Another reason D&D is such a cool game = DM's who use the rules as guidelines and reward "out of the box" thinking even if not quite RAW.

S.

*Only Wall of Iron was permenant in 2e wasn't it?

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Most Powerful classes between 4-6 level All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.