Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is Almost Here!

[Xenocrat]

I'm intrigued by the ally with the spider legs(?) coming out of her back. A jorogumo?

[Mark Moreland]

Xenocrat wrote:

I'm intrigued by the ally with the spider legs(?) coming out of her back. A jorogumo?

Not quite...:

She's one of the two mongrelfolk you can recruit at the start of the campaign. One becomes an ally and the other an enemy, and your choices in chapter one determine which is which!

[Decimus Drake]

I hate myself knowing I'll end up getting this in spite of my experiences playing over 250 hours of the Kingmaker game.

[Cori Marie]

God I can't wait to play this, and it comes out on the first day of a five-day weekend for me, so guess I know how I'm spending the whole extended break.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

This is comin' out on my birthday! :D

[Sandal Fury]

Very excited about the game, looks to be an instant classic.

But...

Woljif Jefto? Really? Woljif Jefto?

Wol. Jif. Jef. To.

[Salamileg]

Possible I missed this somewhere, but will you have the ability to switch between turn-based and real time with pause like Kingmaker was updated to do?

[ggs273]

So excited for this! When will pre-orders for consoles go live? Can I pre-order for console now or will that be available at a later date?

[thaX]

I take it that it is using the PF1 rules (or equivlant)?

[pixierose]

I wish I liked this.

The removal of Aron Kir is pretty upsetting so that Sosiel can be a romance option kind of rubs me the wrong way.(unless it was changed since the beta)

Not to mention kingmaker had a really wonky relationship with alignment, and I feel really weird how big the push and advertisement of the Wrath of the Righteous video game is so focused on evil options. For me it would feel like if they made a Hells Vengeance video game and they made one of the big selling points to be getting to play as a Paladin of the Glorious Reclamation. IDK Wrath of the Righteous always read to me as the *good* adventure path, with themes of redemption, justice, kindness.

Also kind of not a fan of Wenduag being *beautified.* the way she is. Like oh boosted to main character status lets brush up her features.

But then again these could just be personal problems, the gameplay looks fun, and the art in general is gorgeous. I hope it provides a good experience for those who are interested in it.

[Kasoh]

Salamileg wrote:

Possible I missed this somewhere, but will you have the ability to switch between turn-based and real time with pause like Kingmaker was updated to do?

Swapping between Real time with Pause and Turn Base modes is in the base game.

[Franz Lunzer]

thaX wrote:

I take it that it is using the PF1 rules (or equivlant)?

Close to PF1 rules, but also not quite. Same as Kingmaker CRPG was.

[LoreMonger13]

I've been MEGA-HYPED ever since backing this =3

Ran the tabletop AP online some years ago, and hoping to get the gang back together for a multiplayer playthrough =D [EDIT: Oh, young and naïve past-self, so full of hope and excitement...]

I think the most intriguing bit thus far has been the complete change-up of the Mythic Paths, in now being very distinct and transformative as opposed to the more traditional but generic versions from tabletop. If we ever get something akin to a Mythic system in 2E (Wink-Wink, Nudge-Nudge), I think it'd be super cool to do something more akin to the CRPG take!

Only one minor disappointment thus far: I was REALLY hoping that the Kineticist would get the Elysiokineticist archetype, given that in its writeup they're -specifically- mentioned as frequenting areas such as the Worldwound to fight off evil =[

BUT, I recognize that would involve adding in an entire new Element (Wood) to the core class itself and so would be a lot of extra work for one archetype. Maybe in a DLC, with perhaps a new Mythic Path like Green Man? ;)

Any road... REALLY looking forward to going through it as a player this time, thinking of rolling up an Exploiter Wizard and going the Aeon path!

[Blave]

LoreMonger13 wrote:

hoping to get the gang back together for a multiplayer playthrough =D

I'm like 99,9% sure there is no multi-player in this game.

[LoreMonger13]

Blave wrote:

LoreMonger13 wrote:

hoping to get the gang back together for a multiplayer playthrough =D

I'm like 99,9% sure there is no multi-player in this game.

Aw heck, for some reason I thought there was T_T

Well, one more not-as-small disappointment then =[

[rknop]

Sad there's no Linux version, as there was with Kingmaker.

[Taedin]

pixierose wrote:

The removal of Aron Kir is pretty upsetting so that Sosiel can be a romance option kind of rubs me the wrong way.(unless it was changed since the beta)

While I have loved the beta and play experience so far, this is one thing that did make me uncomfortable. They were a really memorable part of (reading, sadly not playing) the original AP, and seeing his husband just.... erased from existence to make Sosiel single left a bad taste in my mouth.

Also

Spoiler:

the return of the elven Dark Fate with elves that are TOO evil turning into Drow spontaneously was an... unexpected return of some old lore that I thought had been pretty firmly swept under the rug after Second Darkness.

[keftiu]

The Owlcat official Discord not policing transphobia + them not having Anevia as a companion means this one is a hard pass for me.

[Kasoh]

Taedin wrote:

pixierose wrote:

The removal of Aron Kir is pretty upsetting so that Sosiel can be a romance option kind of rubs me the wrong way.(unless it was changed since the beta)

While I have loved the beta and play experience so far, this is one thing that did make me uncomfortable. They were a really memorable part of (reading, sadly not playing) the original AP, and seeing his husband just.... erased from existence to make Sosiel single left a bad taste in my mouth.

Also ** spoiler omitted **

That quest was the product of a kickstarter backer reward from what I can tell. A person could design a quest. I think there's 3 of them in the game somewhere. The Kingmaker one was soundly panned for being awful in every respect, but I assume that this stuff has to be approved by the licensing partner somehow.

I am surprised at the support for Aron Kir though. I've ran Wrath twice and he's struggled to make any impact in the groups.

Spoiler:

His story impact is almost minimal, and he mostly is there to be sabotage bait for Nurah. If you're looking to cut down on the number of NPCs, he's a prime candidate.

Like in any adaptation, things get cut. I was more annoyed at what they did to Aravashnial, who has always been a favorite in my Wrath games.

spoiler:

Dude gets killed by a Companion off screen, and his role is given to Storyteller.

Of course, different people gravitate towards different stories so this shouldn't surprise me.

keftiu wrote:

not having Anevia as a companion

I did think it was odd, but Anevia is by far the most useful non party companion NPC in the entire crusade. I do wish we got more stuff with her.

[pixierose]

Aron might not have the hugest impact but be is tied to Nurah and Sosiel and enhance their stories. Like thats *Sosiels husband,* and big part of his character, not to mention Arons struggle with drug addiction really resonated with my group. He seemed like the everyman doing his best and struggled against supernatural forces .

Aravashnial was also who the groups fighter married and mentor to the partys witch. So hearing what they did to him is pretty upsetting

I hadn't heard about the transphobia and that is upsetting especially also them reducing Anevias role

[Kasoh]

pixierose wrote:

Aron might not have the hugest impact but be is tied to Nurah and Sosiel and enhance their stories. Like thats *Sosiels husband,* and big part of his character, not to mention Arons struggle with drug addiction really resonated with my group. He seemed like the everyman doing his best and struggled against supernatural forces .

Aravashnial was also who the groups fighter married and mentor to the partys witch. So hearing what they did to him is pretty upsetting

I hadn't heard about the transphobia and that is upsetting especially also them reducing Anevias role

One of the best parts about GMing is not knowing which NPC the party will identify with, and they can surprise you and teach each other things.

But in the name of pedantry, Sosiel and Aron aren't married when they're introduced in the AP. They do have a history of a committed relationship, so maybe that's a moot point. Irabeth and Anevia are married, so we know that Paizo wouldn't have hesitated to have them as such, but there could be reasons for using the term lover over any other label for their relationship.

I just...don't know why. I suppose someone could ask Neil Spicer or James Jacobs.

Owlcat made some choices, certainly. On one hand, the stuff they did with Areelu Vorlesh and Staunton Vhane is really compelling. I think leaning into the darkness is something that interested the studio because its such an obvious Good guy campaign, because its also about a 100 year long war that we're losing until PCs show up. 'How far would you go to win' sort of stuff. Which matches my experience running Wrath of the Righteous--I never had more than one LG character. Its like players thought it was too basic or whatever.

[pixierose]

Thats fair, it has been awhile since I read their introductory paragraphs and they were married by the end of the epilogue in my campaign so that might be why i used that term. But still regardless of partner or husband Aron is a significant part of the character.

I had a range of good aligned characters in my game. IDK, it still feels weird. Like people wouldnt say " Oh Hells Vengenace is such an evil game so we wanted to include a bunch of good aligned stuff."

[James Jacobs]

Kasoh wrote:

I just...don't know why. I suppose someone could ask Neil Spicer or James Jacobs.

Because they're lovers, but they're not married when they encounter the PCs. Whether or not they end up getting married or their relationship falls apart due to the external pressures put on it is left to gameplay to resolve.

When I did the cross-adventure development for the eight inside front cover recurring PC allies I did what I could to make them interesting enough to inspire their stories to be explored in play, but also didn't want to have all those stories done and over with. It was more interesting to me that they have potential future plots, but also as fits the nature of the campaign, that they all have some pretty serious flaws that, without PCs to help them work through things, could well end up ruining lives.

It's a tricky thing, writing character arcs for stories in which you, the creator of the story, are specifically NOT writing the protagonists. That's not a luxury we have for tabletop RPGs.

Which of those NPCs end up playing significant roles in individual games is a choice that is intentionally left to the GM and the party.

[James Jacobs]

pixierose wrote:

Thats fair, it has been awhile since I read their introductory paragraphs and they were married by the end of the epilogue in my campaign so that might be why i used that term. But still regardless of partner or husband Aron is a significant part of the character.

I had a range of good aligned characters in my game. IDK, it still feels weird. Like people wouldnt say " Oh Hells Vengenace is such an evil game so we wanted to include a bunch of good aligned stuff."

For every adventure path we publish, there's invariably a group who gets excited about playing off-brand characters.

Be that "I wanna run a group of goblins through Rise of the Runelords," or "I wanna run anti-pirate paladins in Skull and Shackles," or "I wanna run Hell's Rebels for lawful evil characters who are trying to keep Barzilai Thrune in power" or "I wanna run Hell's Vengeance where the players are part of the Glorious Reclamation" (all of which are real world examples I've heard of on these boards)... a GM who runs a tabletop game has it in their power the ability to rebuild the Adventure Path's plot to allow those choices.

For a computer game, the GM is Owlcat, and so when you see them support options to play demon worshipers in "Wrath of the Righteous," for example, they're trying to make sure that as many different types of play styles are supported as possible. Because they don't have the luxury of a GM being able to make those changes for a group.

[pixierose]

James Jacobs wrote:

pixierose wrote:

Thats fair, it has been awhile since I read their introductory paragraphs and they were married by the end of the epilogue in my campaign so that might be why i used that term. But still regardless of partner or husband Aron is a significant part of the character.

I had a range of good aligned characters in my game. IDK, it still feels weird. Like people wouldnt say " Oh Hells Vengenace is such an evil game so we wanted to include a bunch of good aligned stuff."

For every adventure path we publish, there's invariably a group who gets excited about playing off-brand characters.

Be that "I wanna run a group of goblins through Rise of the Runelords," or "I wanna run anti-pirate paladins in Skull and Shackles," or "I wanna run Hell's Rebels for lawful evil characters who are trying to keep Barzilai Thrune in power" or "I wanna run Hell's Vengeance where the players are part of the Glorious Reclamation" (all of which are real world examples I've heard of on these boards)... a GM who runs a tabletop game has it in their power the ability to rebuild the Adventure Path's plot to allow those choices.

For a computer game, the GM is Owlcat, and so when you see them support options to play demon worshipers in "Wrath of the Righteous," for example, they're trying to make sure that as many different types of play styles are supported as possible. Because they don't have the luxury of a GM being able to make those changes for a group.

I get that, and I've tried to come around to thinking that way. But it still feels off to me, especially since it is such a big selling point, heck the initial trailer seemed more like it was selling a game about becoming an undead lich crusader thing rather than it was about being a righteous redeemer or defender of good. That along side the removal of certain characters, or changes to some, it doesn't feel like what I liked about wrath of the righteous is there. And it sort of made me wish it was another adventure path or something else just inspired by paizo content. That alongside the issues in the official owlcat discord just make me really reluctant about the game.

Stories and names have meaning, I'm sure you know that more than any one and so I must sound like i'm preaching to the choir. It just everything seems to capture the opposite of what I remember this game being.

For the people who do like the game I want them to have fun but it feels like, well it doesn't feel like wrath of the righteous to me.

[Decimus Drake]

keftiu wrote:

The Owlcat official Discord not policing transphobia + them not having Anevia as a companion means this one is a hard pass for me.

If what your saying about the acceptance of transphobia on the Owlcat Discord is true then I'd be curious as to the culture at the company itself. It would be a shame for Paizo to be associated with something like that.

[Kasoh]

James Jacobs wrote:

Which of those NPCs end up playing significant roles in individual games is a choice that is intentionally left to the GM and the party.

Thanks for chiming in Mr. Jacobs. I do love all the NPCs in Wrath of the Righteous. Its the adventure I started subscribing to Paizo APs for, and I still think its great work.

[James Jacobs]

Kasoh wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Which of those NPCs end up playing significant roles in individual games is a choice that is intentionally left to the GM and the party.

Thanks for chiming in Mr. Jacobs. I do love all the NPCs in Wrath of the Righteous. Its the adventure I started subscribing to Paizo APs for, and I still think its great work.

Yay! Thanks for the kind words! It's particularly good to hear them about Wrath of the Righteous, which I put a LOT of work in on, and I'm kind of down on it these days because so much of the feedback from it was more focused on either how Mythic content didn't mesh well with high level content, or how I mishandled the development of one specific encounter in book five that leaned too hard into the "What if the players are jerks" rather than the assumption that "Let's reward players who are respectful."

[keftiu]

Decimus Drake wrote:

keftiu wrote:

The Owlcat official Discord not policing transphobia + them not having Anevia as a companion means this one is a hard pass for me.

If what your saying about the acceptance of transphobia on the Owlcat Discord is true then I'd be curious as to the culture at the company itself. It would be a shame for Paizo to be associated with something like that.

Any mention of trans people or trans characters in their Discord get met with a mod warning - “no politics” - and some blatant transphobia from other users went unchecked. I left pretty quick after that. They’re a Russian dev, which might play into things; I know there’s some pretty nasty anti-LGBT laws over there in regards to media.

Has me very nervous for how Irabeth and Anevia will be treated by the game, but them not being companions really rankled me.

[Kasoh]

keftiu wrote:

Has me very nervous for how Irabeth and Anevia will be treated by the game, but them not being companions really rankled me.

As far as I've seen in the beta, its a respectful adaptation of their story.

spoiler:

Irabeth still sells her family sword to pay for Anevia's treatment, and you only find this out by finding the scabbard and return it to Irabeth who tells you that much. Firmly reminding you its not your business, really. Though lawful characters can chastise Irabeth for selling a sword in the middle of a demon war. If you pry further, it was Diplomacy DC 50 check, but because this is a video game, I expect you'll find Irabeth's sword and actually learn the rest of the story. Admittedly, I haven't seen how it all ends.

Since we get Seelah and can get Galfrey as paladins in the party, I can understand not doing another one with Irabeth, who ends up running Drezen as she often does in the Tabletop version.

[Kevin Mack]

Taedin wrote:

pixierose wrote:

The removal of Aron Kir is pretty upsetting so that Sosiel can be a romance option kind of rubs me the wrong way.(unless it was changed since the beta)

While I have loved the beta and play experience so far, this is one thing that did make me uncomfortable. They were a really memorable part of (reading, sadly not playing) the original AP, and seeing his husband just.... erased from existence to make Sosiel single left a bad taste in my mouth.

Also ** spoiler omitted **

Nah they specifically mention it in one of the 2e pathfinder books (Honestly I was suprised they mentioned it again as well since they were moving away from the idea of any non outsider races being inherintly evil. I figured it was one of those things they couldent really retcon due to being a big plot point in a certain Ap but they would just never bring up again.)

[HumbleGamer]

Any chance for the coop campaign ( sharing characters like BG,IWD, etc... )?

[PossibleCabbage]

There were Drow in Wrath of the Righteous? Is that new for the video game?

The things that stand out to me most in retrospect about that AP are Arushelae, the imprisoned lich, hangin' with Nocticula, and one particularly fearsome ooze that our Cave Druid rolled a 20 on their natural empathy check against.

[James Jacobs]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

There were Drow in Wrath of the Righteous? Is that new for the video game?

The things that stand out to me most in retrospect about that AP are Arushelae, the imprisoned lich, hangin' with Nocticula, and one particularly fearsome ooze that our Cave Druid rolled a 20 on their natural empathy check against.

My understanding is that the drow element is part of a Kickstarter backer's quest, and thus a new addition to the story from Owlcat.