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I need some help with a Player who has chipmunked the rules a bit.
We have all these buildings/sewers/doors, etc usually 5' wide, and this halfling druid has summoned a baby ROC Man size, he is riding it, and using it like a calvary mount, by hovering 10' in the air. So he is constantly above other party members with a reach weapon (lance) doing drive by attacks and charges (charge/hit, fly past, next round repeat).
Most of the encounters do not have reach weapons itself.
How as a GM do I "deal" with this?
I am getting no AoO, and because he is 10' up and cannot even attack him normally.
In a 50' hallway/doorway, he sits behind the front line, about 30' back, and on his turn charges the opponent with reach, bypassing his buddy on the front line.
What am I missing on this? He can charge through his buddy right?
2nd question on animal companions, does the mini version of a animal companion get all the feats of its full size version?
Ie, a full Roc has Feats Flyby Attack, Improved Critical (talons), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Skill
Focus (Perception), Weapon Focus (talons)
Does the Junior version (Baby Roc) get all these feats? or does he have to pay for/select all of them per the companion rules?
Thanks
Robyn
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As far as I know, he can't charge through anyone, even an ally.
Also, you mentioned he was "charging and flying past", but using a charge exhausts both your move and standard actions. So, he could charge (assuming he wasn't blocked by anything), but his turn would end beside the opponent he charged at.
EDIT: Adding a suggestion - put them in a dungeon hallway that's only 10' tall. Then, even flying he would provoke AoO's :D
EDIT: Adding a suggestion - put them in a dungeon hallway that's only 10' tall. Then, even flying he would provoke AoO's :D
I was going to say something like that. LoL
Anyway, seeing as how the standard height of ceilings in tunnels and rooms is 10 feet, he must enjoy constantly banging his head. Plus, a baby roc that is old enough to know how to fly and be able to carry a halfling with gear and act as a combat mount is going to have a wingspan that is bigger than any 5 foot wide doorway. Also remember that standard doorways and openings in walls are usually 7-8 feet high when there is a 10 foot high ceiling. Even if you are using the standard 10 foot wide hallways, the roc is going to have to constantly be working on not brushing the walls with it's wingtips.
As for the skills, I would say either some or none of them are available til it is an adult.
Edit:
Ok, I just went back and read the Roc entry in the Bestiary, and I think it is silly that a newly hatched roc can fly within minutes of hatching. Though the fact that there is no mention on how old a roc has to be before it can be used as a mount means it is up to you to decide just how old the baby roc is and how big it has grown by the time it can be ridden safely.
One could make the argument that rocs are sanctioned for play as animal companions but not baby versions of said animals.
Actually, if you read the PRPG Bestiary entry on the Roc, the stat block listed for the animal companion version of a Roc specifically lists it as a baby. It is of Medium size and can increase in size to Large at 7th level. A roc is also limited to this size as a companion, no matter how many years it remains with a character.
Also, I had to go and look at the 3.5 rules for the Creature Sizes table in the MM, as I could not find that table anywhere in the PRPG books. I do not know if I just missed it or if it was left out. But anyway, a fully-grown Roc is Gargantuan in size. On this chart a Medium creature has measurements 1/8 the size of a Gargantuan creature, so to me that means that an adult Roc's wingspan of 80 feet would be 10 feet for a baby Roc of Medium size and the 30 foot measurement from beak to tail of an adult Roc would be just under 4 feet for a baby. So as I said in my previous post, there is no way it can maneuver safely in many areas of a standard dungeon or underground setting unless it is walking most of the time and not flying.
miniaturepeddler,
I forgot this in my original post, but the tables and lists for feats that an animal companion can have are in the Core Book on pages 52-53. These are the ones available for the roc to learn and not the list of feats that the adult roc knows.
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Since I do not own the PRPG Bestiary, this would be impossible to me (and why I don't know the maneuverability statistics of a roc).
An excellent resource for rules is the d20pfsrd web site. Lots of great stuff there. You can look up Roc and see the animal companion version details within the entry.
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I questioned the player further about the fly by attack the player was using with his baby Roc Animal Companion for a Druid.
He cited:
Ride-by Attack (Combat)
While mounted and charging, you can move, strike at a foe, and then continue moving.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.
Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can't exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.
So he claims that since he as a character has this feat that it allows him and him animal companion, being used as a mount to do this.
It requires no additional feats or training on the Animal Companion/mount to do.
His answer about size is that RAW, state that the Baby Roc is man sized, so therefore only takes 5' of space, whether that is 2 dimensional or 3 dimensional.
Since his fellow party members at 5' in size, then a 10 foot hallway can accommodate him and his mount and his party members.
[BTW, I really do admire the unique application of this attribute, feat and animal companion]
He also states that RAW and prior practice that using your animal companion is an excepted practice.
And that rules state as long a the rider is one size less than the ridden beast it is legal and that the two (rider and mount) only take up the Space of the mount in space and size.
I cannot fault his logic path on this, even though I find it Very cheesy and feel it violates RAI, but PFS is not RAI but RAW. (I actually hate these types of arguments).
FWIW
Robyn
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Hi,
I think the idea sounds cool! Riding a big bird is the stuff of fantasy (Tolkien and such), so the real question is:
Does this combo upset the balance?
Ok, he can deal damage without being hit in combat, but so can an archer way in the back. And if I'm correct this combo costs him at least 3 feat (mounted combat, ride by attack, weapon proficiency lance).
I like it, might even use it as inspiration for my secondary character! ;-)
I need some help with a Player who has chipmunked the rules a bit.
We have all these buildings/sewers/doors, etc usually 5' wide, and this halfling druid has summoned a baby ROC Man size, he is riding it, and using it like a calvary mount, by hovering 10' in the air. So he is constantly above other party members with a reach weapon (lance) doing drive by attacks and charges (charge/hit, fly past, next round repeat).
Most of the encounters do not have reach weapons itself.
How as a GM do I "deal" with this?
I am getting no AoO, and because he is 10' up and cannot even attack him normally.In a 50' hallway/doorway, he sits behind the front line, about 30' back, and on his turn charges the opponent with reach, bypassing his buddy on the front line.
What am I missing on this? He can charge through his buddy right?
2nd question on animal companions, does the mini version of a animal companion get all the feats of its full size version?
Ie, a full Roc has Feats Flyby Attack, Improved Critical (talons), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Skill
Focus (Perception), Weapon Focus (talons)Does the Junior version (Baby Roc) get all these feats? or does he have to pay for/select all of them per the companion rules?
Thanks
Robyn
Problems I see you are having:
A. At 12th level, the highest you could be in Pathfinder Society, a Druid animal companion can only have 5 feats.
B. No animal companion or player is allowed to take a feat from the Bestiary no matter if it is listed in the Core Rulebook or not. This means no flyby attack. Also note Flyby attack unlike rideby attack does not state you ignore AOO from your opponent. Also if he is using ride-by attack only his opponent which he attacks can not make an aoo. Anyone else can.
C.As for combat, the line reads, "For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat." This is after stating that the mount takes up two squares. With the way this is written, I believe this "sharing" of spaces is written for horses only and also is done for simplicity. IE. its not a hard fast rule. Normally, the sharing of a space is considered squeezing. For someone saying they are charging on a large bird in a 10ft corridor I would not allow it.
D.You can not charge through a friendly square.
E. I would definitely read up on the ride checks he needs to make and the flight checks the roc should be making each and every action including when either of them are damaged.
E.
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Flying in combat at low tiers is VASTLY different from playing an archer. It is a pretty clear exploit of the system.
Ok, you played at the same table, so the following questions:
1. Did you feel your character was inadequate compared with the druid?
2. What was the damage output of the druid?
3. What level was the druid?
It looks like a halfling druid that had a riding dog and switched to roc.
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Robyn, it sounds like you have one of those players who is more interested in the mechanics of the game than in its spirit or intent. There's a segment of the RPG player population who think that unless the rules say they can't do it, then it must be OK. You're rather stuck. Even if you curb the flying mount abuse, this player will find some other loophole to exploit (if he hasn't already). It might be worthwhile to take this player to the side and have a frank conversation with him. Encourage him to think about how his actions affect the other players at the table, and if they continue to feel like spectators in the game they may simply walk away.
Every gaming group has one of these players who causes the GM a lot of grief. We've got several in my area. Usually it's an attention thing.
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I might be on the minority side of the fence here, but I think it's fine. The roc is a medium-large sized flying creature, and I have to believe that when Josh allowed it he knew that the first thing a lot of people would see with it was 'flying mount'. If they take the appropriate feats for it, train it in Combat Riding, then what's the matter? Yes, the reach is an issue, but I have to think that as soon as some creatures with ranged attacks spot this giant bird in the sky bearing a mount, they'll just target it with a number of attacks. A druid and its mount probably aren't going to survive very long under heavy ranged fire.
Of course, he could wait until other factors distracted the enemies too, who's to know? The druid has stumbled upon a valid tactic allowed by Josh, so I don't see any reason to discourage that. So long as he's using "Fly" as the book defines it (move at least half speed each turn or make a DC 15 fly check, make a check for the mount when it takes damage or lose altitude, etc.) then awesome. :)
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I might be on the minority side of the fence here, but I think it's fine. The roc is a medium-large sized flying creature, and I have to believe that when Josh allowed it he knew that the first thing a lot of people would see with it was 'flying mount'. If they take the appropriate feats for it, train it in Combat Riding, then what's the matter? Yes, the reach is an issue, but I have to think that as soon as some creatures with ranged attacks spot this giant bird in the sky bearing a mount, they'll just target it with a number of attacks. A druid and its mount probably aren't going to survive very long under heavy ranged fire.
Because Combat Riding doesn't work with flying mounts. That's why there's Fly-By Attack in the Beastiary :)
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I might be on the minority side of the fence here, but I think it's fine. The roc is a medium-large sized flying creature, and I have to believe that when Josh allowed it he knew that the first thing a lot of people would see with it was 'flying mount'. If they take the appropriate feats for it, train it in Combat Riding, then what's the matter? Yes, the reach is an issue, but I have to think that as soon as some creatures with ranged attacks spot this giant bird in the sky bearing a mount, they'll just target it with a number of attacks. A druid and its mount probably aren't going to survive very long under heavy ranged fire.Because Combat Riding doesn't work with flying mounts. That's why there's Fly-By Attack in the Beastiary :)
Huh? I meant training an animal for combat riding using Handle Animal. I don't see anything about not being able to use it with a flying mount. Fly-By Attack is just spring attack for a flying mount.
Combat Training (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat by spending 3 weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal's previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Many horses and riding dogs are trained in this way.
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Huh? I meant training an animal for combat riding using Handle Animal. I don't see anything about not being able to use it with a flying mount. Fly-By Attack is just spring attack for a flying mount.
Because Combat Riding doesn't work with flying mounts. That's why there's Fly-By Attack in the Beastiary :)
Ah crap, I need to fully wake up before I start posting. I thought you meant Ride-By Attack. You're 100% correct in that matter.
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Miniaturepeddler
I'm feeling with you – such a player is generating a special build and as GM you either spend a long time checking all the intricacies of the rules – and this way ruin the fun for all – or you let it go and might ruin the fun for the other players.
I've had a closer look and I have to admit – it is a quite clever build and possible with the right feats.
Feats needed:
Heavy Armor Proficiency (?) - you mentioned some metal armor in the text
Weapon Proficiency Lance
Mounted Combat
Ride By Attack
It's not possible to have all of this in a low level druid (3 or lower)– but a level 1 fighter, level 1 druid would manage all of the above. There is one big drawback of the metal armor you mention – he isn't allowed to cast spells for 24 hours – so no taking off the amour and casting cure light wounds. But if he isn't casting at all in the game then nothing you can do.
Roc – he is on the allowed list. He will have to train the Roc in Combat training to ensure he can ride it into melee. This leaves two skill points and one feat. The best use I could find is Acrobatics (+2 for fly) and both skill points into fly as well. This would max. out the fly skill of the Roc.
2 Ranks + 3 class skill + 4 Dex bonus plus 2 Acrobatics for a total of 11.
I looked at riding – but as a druid you have ample opportunity to boost that skill. As the lance also allows to be used one handed will riding I can't see any chance for him to be dislodged easily.
So on an empty plain he and enough time he will be able to straf a monster without missile weapons and stupid enough to stay on the ground again and again without a chance of retaliation. Flying 'through' the own people (rather above them) shouldn't be a problem either.
Now we get indoors. Arguing that a 10 foot high passage could be used at the same time by a flying creature as well as troops on the ground is cheesy in the highest order. The player probably will argue – a creature occupies a 5 feet cube – sideways as well as well as vertical. So the main arguments will be around the line – does it make sense. As the player build this character for this purpose, this might not be the ideal way to get it solved.
This leaves the fly checks. This has already been discussed. Using one feat from the Roc to boost fly skills will ensure he won't fail flying below half speed (skill check 10) – but hover still needs a constant roll of 4 or higher and a 180 degree turn to attack the following round needs a DC20.
So both tactics – always hovering and attacking every round are unlikely to work all the time.
What else can you do? Provided you play an inteligent monster with clothes on - let one of them spend 1 turn taking off his coat (blanket would do as well) and readying an action. Next time the Roc flies by he will throw it in the air just ahead of the Roc. All he needs is to 'hit the square'. It is an improvised weapon – so I leave it up to you to decide on the difficulty. I would give two monsters with spears and coat, a blanket etc. an automatic hit in the tunnel. They just block it. This won't do any direct damage – but it should blind the Roc.
As it is moving faster as half speed it needs an Acrobatics check DC10 or will fall prone. The -4 on the Acrobatics check would negate the Dex bonus of the Roc. If you time it in a way while he is flying from his own allies towards the monsters, then he could even crash down behind the lines.
Alternatively – even if this doesn't work for you – mildly intelligent monsters will realize soon that they can't get Attacks of Opportunity. This still leaves them the option to ready an action and just attack when he flies past. I even checked it out – with a readied action you are allowed to interrupt someone else's action.
Just thinking about it – he flies by – the monster readies it's action, jumps in the air and tries to grapple him. Now all you need is a decent roll of the die. Isn't that what a GM is good for? This would result in a surprised player – no – you can't really do that – can you. Now it's up to his allies to get him out alive. And it might put an end to such cheesy use of a build.
Thod
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What your player is doing sounds legit except for the lack of ride checks. Based on the OP's description, there should be quite a few.
Also, don't forget monsters can ready an action to smack the thing that keeps flying at them.
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This issue is more of a Core Rules Forum question, but:
Has anyone considered this: Ride-By Attack is a charge action and requires movement in a straight line. Ground-based movement makes this very easy to figure, since there's no facing and terrestrial mounts don't need to expend movement to turn. Flying creatures have to expend movement to turn, which means they can't immediately turn and attack again the round after charging because they have to turn around first. That's why there's the Wingover feat. A fly skill check to turn 180 degrees constitutes movement and a Ride-By Attack is a full round action. So your player might be able to "Fly"-By Attack with the lance every-other round, but that should slow down his roll. Am I wrong?
Also Thod, you have a good idea with grappling the roc, but you can only ready a standard action, not a move (jump) and a standard. You could ready a 5 foot step and a standard though.
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Doug
I was suggesting to grapple the rider. As the sewer according to my understanding was 10 feet high and the monster is 5 feet high and has 5 feet reach it should manage without a jump. The word jump is rather fluff and not a jump in role play rules.
Just hitting the Roc while it flies by is probably easier. But a monster grappling the rider while he flies by just sounds more dramatic.
Thod
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Again, I say this is fine. I've run a lot of PFS scenarios and the vast majority of them have had a lot of indoor environments where this kind of character couldn't be as successful (average ceiling maybe 10 feet). And if there is a module that is mostly outdoors with few ranged characters and this guy excels... so what? He's obviously taken a lot of feats to do this effectively, he's practiced at it, he's good at it, let him have his moment in the sun.
Unless you want to nerf the paladin/cleric in a high undead game, the ranger in a scenario against a lot of his favored enemies, etc., then the mounted druid on roc should be fine as well.
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This is the perfect opportunity for the opponents to ready actions to sunder the weapon of, or disarm the druid as it passes. The weapon comes within reach even if the body is not. Stack a couple of "Aid Another" easy attacks vs. AC 10, and a mob can disarm the druid quite easily. It is unlikely that the druid is going to have a spare lance available, unless he also has and efficient quiver, so he becomes ineffective for the rest of the combat.
Does this druid have a Ring of Feather Fall? Is he tied/strapped into his saddle? I can see an inexperienced bird making maneuvers that would not be comfortable for a loose rider, and may be outright dangerous. On the other hand, if he is strapped in, once the roc is grounded, dismounting would be, in my opinion, a multi-round action. And any crash while strapped in would damage both the druid and roc.
Again, I say this is fine. I've run a lot of PFS scenarios and the vast majority of them have had a lot of indoor environments where this kind of character couldn't be as successful (average ceiling maybe 10 feet). And if there is a module that is mostly outdoors with few ranged characters and this guy excels... so what? He's obviously taken a lot of feats to do this effectively, he's practiced at it, he's good at it, let him have his moment in the sun.
Unless you want to nerf the paladin/cleric in a high undead game, the ranger in a scenario against a lot of his favored enemies, etc., then the mounted druid on roc should be fine as well.
I agree. Let him do it. Just make sure he follows the rules, makes his ride checks, and fly checks.
Lastly, make sure he is aware of his weight. A rock with STR 12 can only carry 43lbs. He can bump the strength to 13 at lvl 3 giving it a 50lb carrying for light. At 4th you can bump it again to 14 for 58lb.
-Halfling, Male 32lb, Gnome male 37lb minimum weight(dont forget weight multiplier for 2lb extra).
-A handy Haversack weighs 5 lbs.
-a Small Lance 5lbs.
-Saddle, Any- Cant take them. All to heavy.
-This means at 1st and 2nd level you can not be a gnome and fly. You can be a halfling but you only have 1 lb left for armor. ie no armor.
-At 3rd you could wear Leather as a halfling. You could finally fly as a gnome.
-At 4th, we start to get into the safe territory for weight amounts. Still tight though....
I have yet to see mention of what level the character is, though I saw mentioned that he had multiple classes and with only a one level dip into druid for the animal companion. Also, at what point was the level in druid taken? Is he, for example, 5th level and took the level of druid to start or did he take the level of druid at 5th? Answering these things will make a biiiiiiiig difference in just how strong that roc is and how many feats or skills it could have. This is from the Core Book:
Class Level: This is the character’s druid level. The
druid’s class levels stack with levels of any other classes
that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose
of determining the companion’s statistics.
So if this character never has more than one level in druid and has no other classes that allow animal companions, then that roc has just 2 HD and only two skills, one feat and one bonus trick....EVER, and will never hit the size growth at 7th level.
Anyway, all this talk of a halfling zipping back and forth on a roc made me think of the old arcade game Joust. LOL
Anyway, all this talk of a halfling zipping back and forth on a roc made me think of the old arcade game Joust. LOL
Joust easily was my favorite atari game!
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Jesse
Sorry if I repeated some of your post - I needed to work it out on my own to convince myself. And I also realize I write other bits again in the weight section. I was sure I had read all - but it seems you need to read 2-3 times to ensure you don't miss anything.
Lets start replying to Jesse
In regard to the readied action: the key to this is the layout. Pathfinder works on a grid basis - in 3D this becomes a cube basis. So lets place the monster that gets attacked at X0, Y0 and Z0 with X being the direction of the hallway, Y being sideways and Z being up and down.
Assume he ist 25 foot away - this would mean he starts at X-5, with his lance he will attack the monster while at X-2 - ahead of any readied action without reach. The crucial bit comes when he enters X-1, X0 and X1 - all these are threatened areas along the x axis not needing any reach. He is save again once he reaches X2.
My understanding was, this was a 10 foot wide hallway. This would indicate Y-1 is wall - Y0 and Y1 are legitimate and Y2 is wall again.
This leaves the Height - Z-1 is below the ground, Z0 is where all the people on the ground reside - Z1 would be where he is flying while Z2 is above the ceiling.
The width and height of the hallway therefore is crucial. If a monster is in the middle it will be able to threaten someone flying by as long as the hallway isn't wider then 15 feet and not higher then 10.
I assume a typical 10 height, 10 width. If there is more space, then questions arise like - is he allowed to attack from Z2 with reach (lance 90 degree down) while flying past, would he has to make a 45 degree up maneuver to attack at X-2, Z1 to reach X-1, Z2 etc. I can't find anything in the RAW that would solve this easily.
So my argument still is - as long as the hallway isn't heigher as 10 feet and not wider as 15 feet he won't be able to avoid readied actions from someone without reach. He still would attack first - so the monster needs to survive the attack. Ride-by-Attack is only preventing the attacks of opportunity - not the readied actions.
Weight - there has been several posts above - so sorry to repeat a lot. I hope there are at least one or two extra bits included here.
Mok - thanks for bringing this one up. I would recommend others to follow his link to the discussion if a medium loaded creature could fly or not. I'm not repeating what is written there. I would prefer official clarification before I would be sure that a light weight can't fly. To me it's convincing - but tell this to the player who made the build.
But as soon as medium weight is reached there are other consequences that are beyond discussion:
Table CoreRuleBook page 170 with no number (between 7.3 and 7.4) indicates that the speed would drop from 80 feet to 55. In addition table 7.5 on the next page says that medium load has a max Dex bonus of +3 and a check penalty of -3.
This means the Roc (if he could fly with medium load) at least lose -1 on AC and -4 (-1 Dex, -3 check penalty) on fly skill. As fly maneuvers seem critical, this -4 really would hurt.
So can you build a Roc with halfling rider and light load?
As already mentioned - the lightest you can get is a female halfling with 27 pounds. If he played a male one - you will have to add +5 pounds.
A small lance would add 5 pounds (10 pounds halfed)
The lightest clothes are Monk outfit or peasant outfit - adding 2 - devided by 4 for small size - so just 1/2 pound.
The Handy Haversack is crucial to carry anything - but it also adds 5 pounds.
So as female halfling, in monks outfit, carrying a lance and a handy haversack he is at a minimum of 37 1/2 pounds. This leaves 5 1/2 pounds for armour - as small armour weights half you can double it.
At first glance I thought only padded armour would fall into this category - but closer inspection shows that a mithral shirt also would qualify.
So unless he boosts the carrying capacity of the Roc - the only builds I can come up with are
Female Halfling at minimum weight
Monk or Peasant outfit (I'm not doing naked for saving 1/2 pound)
Lance
Handy Haversack
Padded Armour or Mithril Shirt
For a total of 42 1/2 pounds
Something that hasn't been mentioned (oops - I didn't spot before ...) in the whole weight discussion - there isn't any weight for a saddle included in the above. The rider will face a -5 penalty for all his ride checks without a saddle. If you add exotic mount (it doesn't clarify if a Roc is exotic or not - I would argue yes), then you have another -5 for riding for a total of -10.
The other bit missing (and I think nobody mentions it so far) that should bring you above light weight is bit and briddle. It is 'just' 1 pound - but as the build above only had half a pound encumbrance left - it would be the bit that breaks it. Unfortunately there are no stats apart of weight for bit and briddle - so be prepared the player might argue to fly naked or without bit and briddle - as it doesn't state anywhere you need it.
So the whole light weight discussion is pretty questionable - unless he carries his armor in the Handy Haversack, just subtracts 80 pounds from the load, climbs partly in the Haversack himself or is doing other intersting bits to circumvent the weight.
I've looked a lot into encumbrance playing a strength 7 wizard who stays on light encumbrance. I don't own yet a Handy Haversack (3rd level - not enough PA yet). The one example I stumbled uppn from the Armoury book: Buy a Masterwork bagpack. Strap the backpack on the Roc. The MW backpack will weight 3 pounds - but at the same time carrying capacity will be calculated as one strenths higher - increasing from 43 light to 50 light for a win of 4 pounds extra capacity in an ultra cheesy way for 50 odd GP. I mention it here as RAI should work for my wizard but RAW could work for the Roc as well.
So all in all - it would be interesting to know how the player claims to stay on light encumbrence while wearing armor. It is interesting to speculate here. Unfortunately I don't think it is helpful at all if a GM at a CON needs to spend a lot of time checking a player if all is legitimate.
And as said before - appology if I repeat stuff written earlier. This whole posting has taken a while and most was done off-line. So some thoughts I get are answered before or I only spotted them now.
Thod
PS: Mok mentions Skill Focus to boost the Fly skill. Skill Focus isn't in the list of Animal Feats in the Druid section. My interpretation therefore is he would need Int 3 to take that feat. Makes only a small difference to Acrobatics which gives a +2. Still I thought I mention it.
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All
Maybe a more PFS related question (yep - I had fun with the above). What is the best way to handle related issues at a table. You are presented a build were as GM you wonder if this is legitimate. Spending time checking it would be a problem.
Would it be regarded as okay to play on and ask another, trusted and experienced player to check out thinks like encumbrance. What alternatives are there how to handle this at a table.
Should this be done after the game?
I concerns me that nobody actually seems to have looked at the encumbrance and other details. I'm not accusing the player of cheating. But I have seen players on my table to interpret rules in interesting ways. I'm sure the player is convinced everything is fine - and maybe it is. But trying to stay inside encumbrance does raise a lot of questions for me.
And at least as far as I understand the layout I can't see him staying out of reach all the time.
It is 'bad style' if players help the GM. It's frowned upon at my table. But in a case like this - what would be a better alternative
Thod
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Skill Focus is listed in the Animal Companion feats, you probably just overlooked it.
Animal companions can select from the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.
Mok - I stand corrected. I must have missed it twice - first when I looked for feats to boost Fly and second time when I checked before I posted.
Does it count that there is a line break between Skill and Focus ...Thod
Alright, I see a small problem with this character's build that is not even related to the roc. miniaturepeddler says the character started at level 3 for all this, Jesse said he had a Handy Haversack, and Thod said his character at 3rd level does not have enough PA yet to buy one. The cost of a haversack requires having at least 13 PA, so you would have to earn near perfect PA to buy one while still 3rd level. Are there any scenarios that offer a haversack on the chronicle sheet?
So I think after all this we are all in agreement that this build and style truly isn't possible until 3rd level and that is assuming the multiclass character takes the boon companion feat.
Nuff said.