My CoT campaign resumes - results on the Sixfold Trial


Council of Thieves


Well, after a six month hiatus (caused by the Sixfold Trial as it happens), we picked things up and replaced three characters. I don't intend this post as a continuation of my previous thread... I'll pick up there separately.

Instead, this is a general commentary about the first half of this module.

My (now) two players each had two characters to run. They did this well, and distinctly. No complaints. I enjoyed running the rehearsals and the play, and my new player enjoyed both as well.

My older player... the tactical, smart player... not so much. So here's the critique as it applies to players who aren't looking for beer & peanuts gaming.

1} The justification for playing along and participating in the play is weak. Really weak. Read Ghontosovos' text. This is one long shot after another. Maybe the PCs can get into a play that maybe they can survive that maybe will result in an invitation to the mayor's house that maybe will allow them to prowl around and maybe find the keys to Delvehaven that maybe has something to do with Westcrown's trouble. Ugh.

2} The consensus is: skill challenges... suck. Why? Because they're just dice rolls. The dress rehearsal and the play itself consist of a lot of these. Roll a d20 until you get a certain result. Rinse, repeat.

The key problem is that this doesn't allow the player to think or invent solutions. They know they need to make such-and-such a saving throw and such-and-such a skill DC. It's diceturbation.

3} Many of the trials are "solo". This reduces the opportunity for innovation to nearly zero. While a fluke is burrowing in Larazon, Tybain "can't" do anything to help him. This removes a layer of complexity from the game: the party mechanic.

4} The setting further shackles the player, discouraging problem-solving. Thinking outside the box is normally good. Clever, simple solutions to complicated problems are what PCs are always seeking. Maximum benefit, least risk. The problem is that in the context of a play being performed in front of a live studio audience, the "actors" can't know what they can get away with. What happens to their cause if they break character and do things to save their lives? The player is forced to roll die after die after die, waiting for the x% chance to come up, before their character is dead. They are discouraged from being clever.

The bottom line is that while I enjoyed running the Trial and while I'm sure it's fun for many groups, for the professional "thinkers" out there, it's got some issues.

So. That's the critique. What's the suggestion?

1} In this setting if my group was writing this module, we'd have encouraged the players explore tangential issues in the city. Go mess with the Dotari, for instance. Mess with Whitechin. Let the players pick how they want to mess with the sandbox. Make the challenges HARD. Make it so almost inevitably they'll be captured. They wake up and are presented an option. Death sentence, or become actors. Live and your freedom is yours. They perform the play, they get noticed, they get invited to a party, THEN the idea that "while you're there..." gets sprung by Ghontosovos and Arael.

2} Minimize the skill challenges. They were fine (ritual Perform(act) checks) in the rehearsal. The play itself should be basically devoid of them.

3} This one is hard. But basically, design the trials so no matter what the stressor on the party, all members get to participate in resolving it. Teamwork is a must. Sorry, we couldn't think of specific examples.

4} Establish ground rules. Find a way to let the players know that - for instance - an actor death isn't actually required for the audience to approve. Find a way to let them know that if they do visually exciting things, the audience might still approve.

One last thought: One of the ideas that was stumbled upon late last night was one wherein the PCs have to actually construct the trials themselves. Someone like Rhobal asks them, "what can you DO?" The players are relied upon to propose challenges they could make look dangerous, and might actually BE dangerous, but allow the party to actually overtly use their abilities. This is clearly not something that Paizo can really do since a} it's impossible to quantify how to reward trials you've never seen and b} you can't assume every/any group of players is up to the challenge of Chose Your Own Adventure. Still, it was a thought, and it might be useful to another DM prepping to run this module.

I thoroughly thank Paizo for this experiment. I just felt I owed it to the writers to provide this feedback. "It's great" only goes so far towards future improvements. While I strongly expect a matter/antimatter explosion as a consequence of combining the following two names in one sentence, Misters Pett and Logue... <BLAM!> thank you.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Council of Thieves / My CoT campaign resumes - results on the Sixfold Trial All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Council of Thieves