Humm would you not need to note "godclaw" on there as the domains may not match the domains of some of the gods?
You would designate your deity as "Asmodeus" and that's it.So, does that mean if I played a cleric of the Godclaw, I'd have to designate my deity as, for example, "Asmodeus (Godclaw)"?
You still need to pick a deity in Golarion in order to be able to pick your domains. Even if you're a member of the order of, say, the Godclaw. Note that there's more than clerics in that order.
Gotcha, thanks!
Quick... I don't know... something:
"Role: More than capable of upholding the honor of their deities in battle, clerics often prove stalwart and capable combatants. Their true strength lies in their capability to draw upon the power of their deities, whether to increase their own and their allies' prowess in battle, to vex their foes with divine magic, or to lend healing to companions in need.As their powers are influenced by their faith, all clerics must focus their worship upon a divine source. While the vast majority of clerics revere a specific deity, a small number dedicate themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deific abstraction. (Work with your GM if you prefer this path to selecting a specific deity.) "
So what's this mean then?
It means it's setting generic. In golarion that does not apply. But ya know you may make a setting of play one {eberron} that does have such an option
But Golarion does not have such an option. Setting over rides generic rules. That rule is a setting neutral optional rule that does not apply to the Golarion setting.
Unless your GM over rides it, but then a GM can always rule fighters are LE only, thieves can only sneak attack from behind and wizard spells only work at night :).
Ok I was a little confused because I thought JJ was stating that all clerics work the way that the Golarion ones do.
I think the OP is gone from the thread, but I was going to suggest taking a look at Green Ronin's excellent "Book of the Righteous". I've just spent a good part of Sunday skimming through this. They present a cosmogony from the ground up, w/ a more or less coherent pantheon. The default is still clerics worshipping individual gods in the pantheon, but interestingly enough, they also have a dedicated church to all the gods, which has its own dedicated clerics. So, you get the traditional D&D treatment if you want, or you can do what lordzack is hoping to see. Win win.
I think how this becomes problematic in Golarion--and I'm no expert--is that there is no fixed pantheon. In most pantheons, they derive from a culture. So you'd have a Norse pantheon, a Greek pantheon, etc. Or, in Greyhawk, the Oeridians would have their gods, along w/ the Suloise, the Bakluni and the Flan. Though there were also "Common" gods that had moved past those cultural origins.
My sense of Golarion deities is that the "big 20" is a collection of the most significant, at this period in time, of all the different cultures in the Inner Sea region. Thus, they lack the familial connection (X is son of Y, who married Z, and together they begat...) found in most pantheons we can reference. Which might be why the OP was getting resistance to ideas for a true pantheistic treatment. It's not a natural fit for at least the Inner Sea region of Golarion.
Interesting thread in any case.
EDIT: I remember in 2nd edition Al-Qadim, they worshipped individual gods, but had 1 city where the main temple & worship was for the "Pantheon" (which excluded certain gods that weren't up to snuff by their standards). So there's some precedent there.
Also, in Greyhawk, there's an interesting schism of sorts w/ the worship of Pholtus. You have the LG side, and you have the LN side.
Ok I was a little confused because I thought JJ was stating that all clerics work the way that the Golarion ones do.
Yeah the thread may be in the wrong spot as it is world specific, so JJ was talking about Golarion not all worlds, but he did give his opinion on how the class should work(One I agree with) But was only speaking for the one setting he can speak on for sure :).
Ok I was a little confused because I thought JJ was stating that all clerics work the way that the Golarion ones do.Yeah the thread may be in the wrong spot as it is world specific, so JJ was talking about Golarion not all worlds, but he did give his opinion on how the class should work(One I agree with) But was only speaking for the one setting he can speak on for sure :).
Up until there was another divine class besides the cleric that isn't the druid I would have disagreed with both of you, however now that we have the oracle I don't mind clerics having to have a god so much.
Yeah it seems the oracle was made for that role, and it seems to me it's a great fit. I know many hate the name but Oracle to me invokes servant of an ideal more to me then cleric ever could.
I myself always got around the cleric of an ideal by never running worlds that supported such a thing. Mostly stuck to FR or homebrews.
Prob would not be a bad ideal. They put enough hints in the last one, but left out one little line.
If you don't mind me suggesting, why not make it a pantheon but keep the domains/favored weapon as the one god system?
In other words, you have the Pantheon of Bob's Gods, which has the Strength, Battle, Luck, Cool Dudes, Sunglasses, and Good Beer domains for you to choose two from, and their favored weapon is the table.
Beyond that, I think Eberron had pantheonistic clerics. It just gave them a wider variety of domains to choose from.
Eberron also had kalashtar clerics of a religion without a central deity, but it still had domains (and I think a favored weapon but I forget what :x).
I guess what I'm saying is - you can have pantheons or deity-less religions, they'll just use the same rules.
Glad we got this worked out. Maybe the PF update of the CS will make sure to actually mention clerics needing a deity. :)The updated World Guide will probably do just that. I had always kinda assumed that was obvious, but it's obviously not obvious. :)
kinda felt it was glaring Oblivious myself, but folks like to argue
I guess what I'm saying is - you can have pantheons or deity-less religions, they'll just use the same rules.
As it totally changes the setting and feel [FR vs Eberron} Not that I dislike the ideal but it is an ideal that does not work in some settings and works best IMO for or that may or may not have real gods.
Normally it is a fun and interesting debate however.
Creative Director
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If you don't mind me suggesting, why not make it a pantheon but keep the domains/favored weapon as the one god system?
In other words, you have the Pantheon of Bob's Gods, which has the Strength, Battle, Luck, Cool Dudes, Sunglasses, and Good Beer domains for you to choose two from, and their favored weapon is the table.
Beyond that, I think Eberron had pantheonistic clerics. It just gave them a wider variety of domains to choose from.
Eberron also had kalashtar clerics of a religion without a central deity, but it still had domains (and I think a favored weapon but I forget what :x).
I guess what I'm saying is - you can have pantheons or deity-less religions, they'll just use the same rules.
Because we want clerics to pick one deity. That's my preferred method of playing the game, and it makes clerics more interesting. Just as wizards pick a school of magic and sorcerers pick a bloodline, clerics pick a deity and that sets up a lot of the cleric's flavor and power and personality and options. A cleric who doesn't pick a deity is, to me, pretty flavorless and uninteresting—the main attraction of a cleric is the fact that you pick a deity and that helps to define your cleric. This way, if there are multiple clerics in a party, they end up automatically feeling unique if they're worshiping different gods, and more importantly, they feel different than NPC clerics who worship different gods.
If all clerics simply worshiped all gods or a group of gods or just an ideal or philosophy, then the class would need to be rebuilt and redesigned. And that's pretty much what we did with the oracle. So there's no need to change the cleric.
I suppose it's a question of setting over mechanics, in all honesty.
The single deity clerics works in a setting like FR or Golarion where the religious set is more Hellenistic. However, once you stray from there, it gets a bit more difficult to force everyone under the one-deity system.
I think you can have an interesting cleric who doesn't pick one deity, so long as their actual religion is still theirs. Just as you could have one cleric of Asmodeus and one of Gorum, you could have - to use Eberron as the example - a cleric of the Silver Flame and a cleric of The Sovereign Host. For me, this makes clerics more interesting, because instead of just being of different gods, they're of different religions entirely. The cleric of Asmodeus thinks his god is better then the cleric of Gorum. The cleric of The Sovereign Host outright denies that the Silver Flame is a god at all. A lot of real world intrigue and drama has come about religions denying the existence of each other, with far more holy wars then Rome or Greece fought.
In other words, I agree that a cleric's religious choice is a very important one, but I don't think it needs to be narrowed down to a specific god...depending on the setting. And that last bit is perhaps the most important one. Yeah, in settings with a Hellenistic religious perspective, in which the gods are very real - manifestedly so - and bicker with each other, clerics to a single god makes sense in all the right ways. In other settings, not as much.
Edit: To be sure, I'm not coming at this from a mechanical perspective, simply a fluff based one. I like the Oracle quite a lot, but I can see why people would want to make a cleric of <pantheon> or <religion> over an Oracle.
Ya know the silver flame counts as one god. I think we are confusing pantheons and a cleric with no single god. While Eberron has two pantheons it does have a few religions. It counts both The host and the dark six as two religions while it also counts the silver flame,the undying court, the blood of vol, the path of light and the cults of the dragon below
So while you only have two pantheons{ Really one to be honest} You have several religions that existed outside of the Pantheistic set up
Also only two {The host and the dark six} could have clerics without a single god
The however the setting is set up as the gods are most likely not real and really your faith powers you. So the ideal that your worshiping the whole of the host is a bit flawed. And even if you are, your identifying with two gods more then others, sometimes one.
Really to be honest the only way that worked was the rule that the gods are false.Otherwise the class really does not work with that set up. You could be a CE cleric of the LG silver flame with zero lose of power they just bent the class and forced it into a setting it really did not fit , alot of the cleric ablitys outright brake the setting if ya think about it to be honest.
I'd agree that giving clerics choices is a good thing, it does not necessarily follow that each cleric must choose one god. They could choose to be members of various religious orders, sects and cults, each with they're own unique beliefs, and so forth. These sects need not be focused on a single deity for them to be unique.
Another thing is, though Greek priests for instance might have a patron deity they are part of a larger religion. That religion recognizes more than one god. This doesn't seem to be the case in Golarion. It seems that for each deity there is a separate organization of clerics that have have nothing to do with each other. That, more so than individual clerics being devoted to a single god, doesn't make sense to me.
Nah there are such things like that in Golarion, sandpoint had a temple like that. Although the cleric was of one god, he did keep shrines and "rituals" for the other faiths as they had no cleric of their own.
Golarion does not have a close nit Pantheon mostly do to how it formed. As cultures and people melded together pantheons where broken up and reformed and in time became the crazy quilt pantheion it currently is.
To do what your wanting the world need built from the ground up with that option as the only one. Eberron is like that. The gods are just make believe and "faith" is the only thing powering clerics. o ya can take any domain you want, but if you serve a single god, then you simply choose his domains as those are the "ideals" you embrace.
You have an ideal of what you want in a pantheon, but that is not the standard form of pantheon man. Thats something else all together. And it really does need to be built into the world as it has far reaching effects.
A pantheon has many gods, some related, some not but a group of gods is a pantheon. Even Christianity has a pantheon, Catholics have saints, some worship the trinity..those are forms of pantheons. Catholics and the saints is the closest thing I can think you you might understand as a standard pantheon. You pray to the saints for different things, or at different times but you only have one god, even if you give lip service to the saints.
A pantheon is the same thing. You call upon the different gods, at different times but only have one main god. Your seeming to want something like all saints, no god. Which is cool, but nowhere like a standard set up
Note: Not trying to offend anyone or anything, but that was the best example I could think of that matched the "classic" pantheon most folks could understand easy.
Humm would you not need to note "godclaw" on there as the domains may not match the domains of some of the gods?
I imagine you'd still just write "Asmodeus", but you'd have access to the Godclaw domains instead of the standard domains of Asmodeus... perhaps?
Kinda what I was thinking, but you would need to note "godclaw" or someone would wonder why you had x domain in place of y domain. I have had players who would forget where things come from
GM:why do you have glory?
plAYER:Umm my god?
GM:he does not grant it...
Player: Umm I am not sure, I know I have it from my god
Player 2: With how can you have that from that got?
Player: umm..I don't know I just do
Why would I need to overhaul the whole world? I'm already doing it with Greyhawk, and it is a relatively simple adjustment. Furthermore what my ideal of a pantheon is has nothing to do with the main point of my post (Furthermore you haven't actually proven to me what you say is true. As far as I've learned thus far the idea of worshiping one god was a pretty alien idea in most of the world for a very long time. If you could actually cite something to prove you're point that'd be nice.). The Sandpoint Cathedral is an isolated example, I haven't seen much else in Golarion that is like that. There isn't a Varisian religion, there's the religion of Adabar, Erastil, Desna, ect.
Just a quick something:
I have an organization in my Galorian (cause I'm slow to give up homebrew) called, "The twin bells finishing school for young ladies". A very old elven female bard runs it and it doubles as a temple to both Calistra and Shelyn (the organization is CG in general alignment) and offers general prayers to most the other female gods. It's currently in Taldor and is considered a great place for a noble lady to learn the finest parts of society.
I like it a lot (of course I designed it) because it plays off the female aspect of the goddesses in question -- neither one quite handles the situations quite as well as both of them do together. This is something I could see happening more often in a "religious" sort of setting -- where a cleric specifically worships two... maybe three gods as part of a set to a theme. Yes I know we have oracles but to limit this sort of approach to a single character class seems unneeded.
After all Apollo and Artemis were worshiped together as "the twins" and if one wanted lots of victories in combat praying to both Ares and Athena was a good idea.
Why would I need to overhaul the whole world? I'm already doing it with Greyhawk, and it is a relatively simple adjustment. Furthermore what my ideal of a pantheon is has nothing to do with the main point of my post (Furthermore you haven't actually proven to me what you say is true. As far as I've learned thus far the idea of worshiping one god was a pretty alien idea in most of the world for a very long time. If you could actually cite something to prove you're point that'd be nice.). The Sandpoint Cathedral is an isolated example, I haven't seen much else in Golarion that is like that. There isn't a Varisian religion, there's the religion of Adabar, Erastil, Desna, ect.
No the sandpoint would not be isolated, it would be common outside large citys.from the CS the gods can be broken up by race, and area of worship.
Your world has no gods then, As Joe can worship blood and gain power, rob sees no need to worship gods and worships the earth. The gods, slowly loose worship and are forgotten and they become nothing more then names and crunches for those to weak to have "real " faith
There is no reason to have god, no point in worshiping a single god, or a small group or hell gods at all. You get a world where the gods are fading and new 'god" grow in place of the old ones almost over night . The church of divan blood or of man soon out strips the old one.
If you do not need a god, then they have no power, just the clerics do. And once they start to change and the clerics are drawing power from "faith" not not a god, gods simply are no longer important.
In your setting why is anyone worshiping gods that have no power? Clerics are wizards , no god needed they are wizards in armor powered not by gods but by themselves.
I like it a lot (of course I designed it) because it plays off the female aspect of the goddesses in question -- neither one quite handles the situations quite as well as both of them do together. This is something I could see happening more often in a "religious" sort of setting -- where a cleric specifically worships two... maybe three gods as part of a set to a theme. Yes I know we have oracles but to limit this sort of approach to a single character class seems unneeded.
After all Apollo and Artemis were worshiped together as "the twins" and if one wanted lots of victories in combat praying to both Ares and Athena was a good idea.
Tis is common really, clerics however worshiped one of the other, but often worked together. That is what a pantheon is, just like the godclaw who worship the teaching of 5 or 6 gods. Yet they are called by one god
Clerics are called , they do not make themselves like wizards and gods do not like to share.
Lets say your cleric of both Calistra and Shelyn, and you do something that Shelyn does not embrace and dislikes and she cuts you off..but Calistra likes it and refuses to cut you off
So you can brake as many rules of one god as you want with no real effect. You a cleric of one god really with one domain..as your never pleases two masters.
I don't know why you insist everyone that worships gains cleric levels there seeker.
I do not, We are talking about the cleric worship two or more gods[and be cleric to them all} at once however, so the subjects would have at lest 1 level of cleric or they are off topic and should leave the thread :)
No the sandpoint would not be isolated, it would be common outside large citys.from the CS the gods can be broken up by race, and area of worship.
Your world has no gods then, As Joe can worship blood and gain power, rob sees no need to worship gods and worships the earth. The gods, slowly loose worship and are forgotten and they become nothing more then names and crunches for those to weak to have "real " faith
There is no reason to have god, no point in worshiping a single god, or a small group or hell gods at all. You get a world where the gods are fading and new 'god" grow in place of the old ones almost over night . The church of divan blood or of man soon out strips the old one.
If you do not need a god, then they have no power, just the clerics do. And once they start to change and the clerics are drawing power from "faith" not not a god, gods simply are no longer important.
In your setting why is anyone worshiping gods that have no power? Clerics are wizards , no god needed they are wizards in armor powered not by gods but by themselves.
Where did my post say anything about clerics not having to worship gods? That's most emphatically not the case in my campaigns. Furthermore I'm, not saying that Sandpoint's example should be isolated, I'm saying it is. I haven't seen examples of that sort of thing elsewhere in Golarion, rather it seems to be the case that a lot of religious traditions are focused on one god to the exclusion of others and furthermore the Sandpoint Cathedral seems to be isolated from any greater context. You're completely missing the point.
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I like it a lot (of course I designed it) because it plays off the female aspect of the goddesses in question -- neither one quite handles the situations quite as well as both of them do together.
I suspect that's what the Shimmy-Gourez (?) thingie mentioned upthread that conjoins Gozreh and, uh, someone else (Desna?) does as well.
Every setting needs a good tripartate goddess, after all, and a nice Shelyn, Lamashtu, Pharasma (maiden, mother, crone?) faith could be intriguing.
Back when Aroden had his mack-daddy on, I could see Arazni and Iomedae being worshipped in his temples, being treated more like saints or demigods than full-on gods in their own right (which we know is explicit in descriptions of Arazni as a demigod servant of Aroden).
A servant of Naderi & Shelyn, together, also makes sense, and worshippers of Kurgess are known to be welcome in temples of Cayden Cailean and Desna, whether or not there's any truth to rumors about his parentage.
A uniquely Absolomi temple of the Starstone Scions (Iomedae, Cayden Cailean and Norgorber) could work as well, with the Cathedral being their 'mecca.' Heretical splinter sects could consider Aroden one of the Starstone Scions (even though he obviously isn't, having been a god already when he raised it), or paint Arazni as the 'fourth' ascended god (whose bridge fell when the Age of Lost Omens began) from the Starstone, with the occasional yapping stranger claiming that Arazni was already a god, and that *Razmir* is the fourth god to have been empowered by the Starstone (since everyone seems to agree that there were *four,* even if the exact name of the fourth is in dispute). Of course, the assumption that there were four is somehow connected to the four bridges, which may or may not be in any way related to the number of Starstone Scions... (Since, if Arazni and Aroden were already gods, and Razmir isn't, there should only ever have been *three* bridges, and the death of Aroden shouldn't have affected Cayden, Iomedae or Norgorber's bridges. And if Arazni was one of them, and had a bridge, it should have fallen when Tar-Baphon slew her, or perhaps when Geb raised her up as a lich, not 183 or 116 years later, respectively.)
'Being able to worship a concept obsoletes gods' seems like a very large leap of logic to me.
Not at all, In time the gods are obsolete unless they kill off the godless clerics. Why would you ever worship a god when you do not need one? All it takes is a evangelistic movement and holy war indeed.
Where did my post say anything about clerics not having to worship gods? That's most emphatically not the case in my campaigns. Furthermore I'm, not saying that Sandpoint's example should be isolated, I'm saying it is. I haven't seen examples of that sort of thing elsewhere in Golarion, rather it seems to be the case that a lot of religious traditions are focused on one god to the exclusion of others and furthermore the Sandpoint Cathedral seems to be isolated from any greater context. You're completely missing the point.
Maybe I did miss your point. Bu there was one in korsava I believe, and the god claw, the green faith and there are bound to be many others. But they still can not do as you ask , simply as that is not how a pantheon works.
Your Pantheon cleric piss one god off, one and he is done. Gone, no powers no spells, nothing. Could you pleases 14 gods? Hell could you pleases 2?
If your not trying to do the work of your god[or all your gods] then your simply not being a cleric.
Edit: You could do it but not without changing both the assumption of the world and the class.
Why would you ever worship a god when you do not need one?I've often been tempted to ask my parents that very question...
Heh, well not trying to bring real world religion in more then we have man. It's worse then using all the troll bait key words at once.
But really that is a main point, you will get your evangelistic anti-god human first faiths. Your get all kids of cults, hundreds. If you know you can worship an ideal, someone will teach you how. I mean if a wizard can learn to alter the laws of reality you can learn the same once you know the trick.
And if there is not trick? simple then you have no godless clerics :)
Why worship a god and beg for power when it can be learned without a god?
Edit: That just gave me a though of an evil"faith" that recruits by showing them what pain really is, they learn to know it and love it, love inflicting it and have total faith in the purity of pain and the nature and loveliness the simple Beauty of suffering. So you have clerics with the domains of destruction, darkness, madness and evil.
They can always make more Prophets of pain.
Actually I want to do an order of paladins that are that way. All humanistic and bent on earning their own godhoods. The worship Iomadae as proof that paladins are deserving in general and on the "true path to perfection"
Seems like they would make a good antagonist for a cleric heavy (or worship heavy) party.
The answer to you're question is simple. Pleasing one god does not necessarily exclude pleasing others. Furthermore if they call on different gods for different powers then angering one god would not necessarily mean the priest would have no more powers.
Of course I'm trying to change assumptions. That doesn't present any great difficulty however.
The answer to you're question is simple. Pleasing one god does not necessarily exclude pleasing others.
It does and can. All in the size of your pantheon. Eberrons worked as the gods were false so it did not matter{CE sure you serve the LG silver flame. Kill the whole village and eat the babys? Nope your still a cleric of the silver flame, but if they where not you could not have pleased them all for gods in a pantheon tend not to get along
Look at the godclaw pantheon, if you please one of them, there is a good chance your pissing off 2 or 3 other ones [which is why ya must pick one I would guess}. In the long one you simply can not serve many masters.
Why would a god invest you with a part of His power when he can not cut off the flow of that power if you abuse it?
Edit: If you have different powers from different gods then we are no longer speaking of the cleric class. As under what you want the most you could ever loose is a domain{which you could simply change I guess} until you run out of gods
Edit2: Have you thought of giving a look to something like 2e spheres? You could brake most the spells up by "domain" so you only gain the spells of that domain..You could allow the "cleric" to pick 2 3 domains per day and gain access to those spells
Why wouldn't he? After all gods look after specific portfolios. Thus they would care primarily about what you did in they're areas of influence.
Really at this point we're not talking about facts. You cannot prove you're assertions, as they are merely opinion. This is why I didn't want to continue debating. Nothing you say is going to change my mind.
I posted this above but you had done replyed but Have you thought of giving a look to something like 2e spheres? You could brake most the spells up by "domain" so you only gain the spells of that domain..You could allow the "cleric" to pick 2 or 3 domains per day and gain access to those spells. Need water spells?pray to the god of the seas, need travel spells pray to the god of travel. Need combat spells pray to the god of war.
It seems that may be closer to what you want. You could have a domain weapon or something to handle the weapon or have pantheon clerics have no weapon.
I don't need to modify any mechanics this is all just fluff.
It was a thought
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A uniquely Absolomi temple of the Starstone Scions (Iomedae, Cayden Cailean and Norgorber) could work as well, with the Cathedral being their 'mecca.' Heretical splinter sects could consider Aroden one of the Starstone Scions (even though he obviously isn't, having been a god already when he raised it), or paint Arazni as the 'fourth' ascended god (whose bridge fell when the Age of Lost Omens began) from the Starstone, with the occasional yapping stranger claiming that Arazni was already a god, and that *Razmir* is the fourth god to have been empowered by the Starstone (since everyone seems to agree that there were *four,* even if the exact name of the fourth is in dispute). Of course, the assumption that there were four is somehow connected to the four bridges, which may or may not be in any way related to the number of Starstone Scions... (Since, if Arazni and Aroden were already gods, and Razmir isn't, there should only ever have been *three* bridges, and the death of Aroden shouldn't have affected Cayden,...
I touched on in this upthread, but the more I see other people run with the idea, the more I like it. I'm strongly considering making the Starstone Scions the defacto pantheon of the human centric Taldor region (Varisia, Taldor, non-Asomodean Cheliax, etc.) when I re-run Rise of the Runelords. It has a powerful central notion, with just enough confusion and revisionism to create interfaith tension. It appeals to my Elder Scrolls, Game of Thrones inner fanboy. Now all I need is a good starstone holy symbol and a system for parsing out domains.
I like clerics of a pantheon. I use clerics of a pantheon when I DM. If you don't like a rule just change it. There is no shame in using a house rule and no need to try to force the Golarion writers to change how they want clerics to work on Golarion. It's not like changing the rule is going to make the cleric too powerful. Additionally there is nothing wrong with doing a setting where a cleric gets his powers all from one god. That type of setting can be fun too.
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I touched on in this upthread, but the more I see other people run with the idea, the more I like it. I'm strongly considering making the Starstone Scions the defacto pantheon of the human centric Taldor region (Varisia, Taldor, non-Asomodean Cheliax, etc.) when I re-run Rise of the Runelords. It has a powerful central notion, with just enough confusion and revisionism to create interfaith tension. It appeals to my Elder Scrolls, Game of Thrones inner fanboy. Now all I need is a good starstone holy symbol and a system for parsing out domains.
As the Starstone itself doesn't seem to give a shiny quatloo about the alignment of it's 'scions,' with lawful good Iomedae, chaotic good Cayden and neutral evil Norgorber among it's known success stories, I'd ditch any alignment domain from the pantheist Scion list. (The Clerics themselves could be of any alignment, however, although the prevalence of good Scions might tilt the clergy more towards good, while the balance of lawful, chaotic and neutral would be balanced, as are the three scions. Neutral clerics would be an imperfect 'ideal,' as they could pay homage to Iomedae, Cayden and Norgorber in turn without suffering some sort of cognitive dissonance, while good clergy might make awkward excuses for why Norgorber 'got into the club'...)
That leaves us with Glory, Sun, War, Charm, Strength, Travel, Death, Knowledge and Trickery. I might make a further ruling that any Cleric of the Scions must have domains from at least two of the scions, and no two domains from a single Scion (which means that one couldn't have Charm and Death, because Norgorber has both of those, even if Cayden *also* has Charm).
Or they might even use some variation, gaining one domain from each of the three Scions, but functioning as cloistered clerics, with lesser HD / BAB / light armor prof, to compensate for their increased domain access.
All three Scions use a form of sword (longsword, rapier or short sword), although it's not clear whether or not a pantheist church like this would have a favored weapon. (A funky compromise might be for the cleric to be required to take the favored weapon of one of the three, and a domain from each of the other two. A cleric might have learned the longsword in his study of the doctrines of Iomedae, and the wandering ways of the Travel domain from his pursuit of Cayden, and the subtlety of the Trickery domain in his studies of Norgorber.)
Aroden also use the longsword, IIRC, and, if I had to pull something out of my butt, I'd say that Arazni the Red Crusader used a greatsword, being more of an offensive warrior to Iomedae's protective aspect. (Which I'm mostly assuming because I don't want her to be a total boring clone of Iomedae!)
If Razmir has a favored weapon (or, more accurately, fakes having one), it would be a weapon that all of his 'priests' can use, such as a dagger or quarterstaff. In keeping with his role as 'god of law, luxury and obedience,' a rapier, chain or whip could also be suitable, but if he wants to keep up the pretense, he would stick to the dagger or staff, as 'priests' of any character class would be proficient in the 'favored weapon.' If someone points that out, the 'priest' could snottily point out that the priests of Nethys use the quarterstaff as their favored weapon, and the priests of Pharasma use the dagger, and nobody calls them big fakers for using common weapons that everyone can use. Given his association with sorcery, a staff might seem more 'mage-ly.' Then again, he might want to distinguish himself from Nethys, and go with the dagger, which has the downside of being associated with 'cults' in particular. Six of one, half dozen of the other, really...
Ya know the silver flame counts as one god. I think we are confusing pantheons and a cleric with no single god. While Eberron has two pantheons it does have a few religions. It counts both The host and the dark six as two religions while it also counts the silver flame,the undying court, the blood of vol, the path of light and the cults of the dragon below
So while you only have two pantheons{ Really one to be honest} You have several religions that existed outside of the Pantheistic set up
Also only two {The host and the dark six} could have clerics without a single god
The however the setting is set up as the gods are most likely not real and really your faith powers you. So the ideal that your worshiping the whole of the host is a bit flawed. And even if you are, your identifying with two gods more then others, sometimes one.
Really to be honest the only way that worked was the rule that the gods are false.Otherwise the class really does not work with that set up. You could be a CE cleric of the LG silver flame with zero lose of power they just bent the class and forced it into a setting it really did not fit , alot of the cleric ablitys outright brake the setting if ya think about it to be honest.
The Undying Court doesn't have a single deity. Nor does the ancestor worship of the Valenar. Blood of the Vol? Nope. Nor does either the Path of Light or the Path of Inspiration. Add the Khyber cults in there as well. In fact, other then the Silver Flame, the only other single deity religion is the drow worship of Vulkoor.
None of the cleric abilities break in the setting - seriously, name one that breaks. Nor are the gods false. They're just not manifesting in greek/roman fashion. By all means, go up to religious people in the real world and laugh at them about how their religions are false because their god can't high-five you like they can in Forgotten Realms and see what kind of response you get.
Eberron has a multitude of religions. The fun thing about them, is that most of exclusive. In Golarion or Forgotten Realms, there's no doubts that all the gods exist, and people choose to pray to all of them, with clerics focusing on one of them. But then you hit Eberron where people - just as in real life - see their religion as the only one. The cleric of the Sovereign Host things that paladin of the Silver Flame does good work, but he's just worshiping another aspect of the Sovereign Host. The elf cleric of the Undying Court is happy that the cleric of the Sovereign Host is helping him mop up the undead, but isn't it a shame he's stuck in his false human religions, without the great elven ancestors to guide him?
Even beyond Eberron, you have Dark Sun, where there are no gods, but clerics worship the elements. Planescape, in which there are gods, but you sure as hell don't worship the Powers, 'cause doing that in Sigil just makes the Lady cross, and you don't want that. The gods of Al-Qadim didn't even have alignments.
Look, I don't hate the whole "every cleric to a god" bit. I think that's exactly how it should be in settings with a Hellenistic philosophy regarding religion. But not ever setting has a Hellenistic philosophy regarding religion. I guess what I'm saying is, it's a question of setting, not mechanics. The cleric class as it exists now is, mechanically speaking, totally capable of worshiping a deity-less religion, or of a pantheon, or etc etc. It's just proper or very improper depending on the character and the setting.
Edit: To be fair, as far as Golarion goes? Yeah, pantheons probably wouldn't work. It's not how the setting is set up.
To be fair, the Undying Court, paths of light , blood of vol and keepers of the past had no gods at all. They were pure ideal worshipers.
Ok sorry I ramble, it What I was talking about breaking was more along the lines of being stuck with the "baggage" of the class when it really should have been more ravenloft/darksun and ripped some of it out. [Stuff like AL based spells, easy raise from the dead spells and the like that did not fit the setting but where stuck with}
The class more then any has ablitys and powers that just didn't totally fit the setting. I agree I liked the gods are false thing for the setting as it gave a feel to the setting, yet another thing that set it apart from others.
Also they reason the pantheon cleric works is because the gods where far or false, they did not talk with the clerics and it did not matter how many oaths or rules you violated you had no chance of really ever falling from grace. A church could throw you out but you never lost your class.
As I said I did not hate that in eberron, but it does change how things work. Eberron was a world on a crisp, a great war just over, people shaken, but if ya look you will see what I talked about before happening in eberron
The go based faiths are slowly starting to fade, human based faith[ Blood of vol, silver flame, paths of light} have started to push them, out. In some cases they have totally replaced the old ones.
In the setting "gods" are on the way out being replaced by ideals.
And just to be clear I am not saying other ways will not work, my posting in this thread where for Golarion. If you want to change that up for a home setting that is always cool. However like eberron you need to sit and think of just how it effects the world
I think your'll agree, that they put some real thought in to many ways that one change did effect the world
Another note: I think eberron gets a bad shake really, people see "robots" and write the whole thing off. A shame really. as the setting has some real depth