Animal Companion with 3 INT


Rules Questions


Does this mean the animal understands Common (or some other language you choose)?

What impact does this have on tricks? Just add 3 more to its maximum number of known tricks?


Adam Ormond wrote:

Does this mean the animal understands Common (or some other language you choose)?

What impact does this have on tricks? Just add 3 more to its maximum number of known tricks?

An intelligence of 3 does not get you an additional tricks. It should get the animal companion one language, but it only has a basic understanding. Trying to explain something in detail to it would probably confuse it.


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Honestly, once an AC hits 3, it's technically sentient, and doesn't need tricks anymore. It can actually follow (with limited understanding) more complex lines of thought and even act more on its own initiative. So, at that point, you can pretty much ignore the "tricks" section and let it understand everything better.


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Adam Ormond wrote:

Does this mean the animal understands Common (or some other language you choose)?

What impact does this have on tricks? Just add 3 more to its maximum number of known tricks?

It means, among other things, that it is not an animal anymore. Animal with above-animal intelligence are usually considered magical beasts, and therefore do not qualify for animal companions anymore...


Laurefindel wrote:
Adam Ormond wrote:

Does this mean the animal understands Common (or some other language you choose)?

What impact does this have on tricks? Just add 3 more to its maximum number of known tricks?

It means, among other things, that it is not an animal anymore. Animal with above-animal intelligence are usually considered magical beasts, and therefore do not qualify for animal companions anymore...

Not true. It is still an animal companion. This is supported in the animal companion section. Once mine hit an intelligence of 3 I just forgot about the skills though.


Laurefindel wrote:
Adam Ormond wrote:

Does this mean the animal understands Common (or some other language you choose)?

What impact does this have on tricks? Just add 3 more to its maximum number of known tricks?

It means, among other things, that it is not an animal anymore. Animal with above-animal intelligence are usually considered magical beasts, and therefore do not qualify for animal companions anymore...

Are you suggesting that increasing an AC's INT to 3 isn't allowed? Multiple areas in the AC rules would imply that is allowed, even suggesting some AC's have greater than 10 INT (probably smarter than the Druid).


On to a couple of the side comments first. This is from the PRD.

Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.

Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using.

There is this from Intelligence -

Creatures of animal-level instinct have Intelligence scores of 1 or 2. Any creature capable of understanding speech has a score of at least 3.

So I would say once they get an INT of 3, tricks are no longer needed after you teach the animal a common language between the two of you. (This is probably common, but could be something more obscure to keep others from being able to talk to your pet easily.)

At this point your pet is a loyal friend that understands you for the most part and does what you ask... baring something really extreme.


Also note that AFAIK there's nothing that says that once a creature reaches INT 3, it automatically understands Common (or any other language). It is just "capable" of doing so. In other words, it'll still need a rank in Linguistics.

Liberty's Edge

wraithstrike wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
Adam Ormond wrote:

Does this mean the animal understands Common (or some other language you choose)?

What impact does this have on tricks? Just add 3 more to its maximum number of known tricks?

It means, among other things, that it is not an animal anymore. Animal with above-animal intelligence are usually considered magical beasts, and therefore do not qualify for animal companions anymore...
Not true. It is still an animal companion. This is supported in the animal companion section. Once mine hit an intelligence of 3 I just forgot about the skills though.

Correct. Tricks cease to be very important once your AC increases its' INT to 3 since it can now understand basic verbal commands (much in the same way a character with a 3 INT can)

That 1 point increase from 2 to 3 has a number of profound effects on your companion.


I would treat an int of 3 as a fusion of instinct and intellect. The natural affinities for clumbing don't leave a tiger just because it got smarter, but yes, it should have the option to learn a language. It could understand, "Go get the sword from my table and bring it to me," and it could probably also figure out what you mean when you said, "Go get the sword from the table and bring it to Bryan." If you told the animal "Bring my sword to the building with the horseshoe on the sign," it MIGHT be able to recognize the symbols, but I would require an intelligence check, DC of 5, +1 to +5 depending on how complicated the instructions are. "Bring me the prettiest flowers in the garden" would fail instantly because the animal now has opinions. It MIGHT be what you want, it might not.


Also, maybe the rules for animals should be honed. Give each animal a "class" for determining skill points and have them key off of wis instead of int. A tiger is a ranger, while a badger or bear is a barbarian. Just a rough guide, but it could help. A smart animal could be just as useful as a PC. And they could spend skill points to gain languages just like PCs


Thazar wrote:

On to a couple of the side comments first. This is from the PRD.

Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.

Must have miss that somehow. PFSRD still states that "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal" (animal type description).

but indeed, nowhere is it ever mentioned that the druid's (or ranger's) animal companion is bound to be an animal. It only says that it must be one of the following...

'findel

Liberty's Edge

Laurefindel wrote:
Thazar wrote:

On to a couple of the side comments first. This is from the PRD.

Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.

Must have miss that somehow. PFSRD still states that "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal" (animal type description).

but indeed, nowhere is it ever mentioned that the druid's (or ranger's) animal companion is bound to be an animal. It only says that it must be one of the following...

'findel

Keep in mind an animal companion that has its' INT raised up to 3 does not become a magical beast - it remains an animal. This is a specific exception to the general rule that states animals must have a 2 or 3 INT

Scarab Sages

I don't have the post on hand, but I can confirm that at least one Paizo guy has come in and said that animal companions can definitely be raised to Int 3 or higher. I think it might even be in the Society boards from Josh Frost too.

Like has been said, animal companions are an exception to the 'animals don't have an int above 3' rule. If a druid really wants to spend some of the animals ability score points by raising it to 3+, I think that's just fine.

Shadow Lodge

Animal companions are already different from your run of the mill Animal and should be treated as such. the fact that you can increase a Companion's Int to 3+ might remove it from the Animal classification but it would not remove it from the Animal Companion classification and no where in the Druid Power does it State that it has to be an Animal.

what does that mean

they are no longer considered an animal

Charm animal will not work on a Companion with int 3+

Companions with int 3+ can learn any feat or skill they are capable of

Liberty's Edge

Look under Druid class

PRD writes:

Skills

This lists the animal's total skill ranks. Animal companions can assign skill ranks to any skill listed under Animal Skills. If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains bonus skill ranks as normal. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill. An animal companion cannot have more ranks in a skill than it has Hit Dice.

Animal Skills

Animal companions can have ranks in any of the following skills: Acrobatics* (Dex), Climb* (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly* (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perception* (Wis), Stealth* (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim* (Str). All of the skills marked with an (*) are class skills for animal companions. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.

Animal Feats

Animal companions can select from the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.

Laurefindel wrote:
Thazar wrote:

On to a couple of the side comments first. This is from the PRD.

Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.

Must have miss that somehow. PFSRD still states that "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal" (animal type description).

but indeed, nowhere is it ever mentioned that the druid's (or ranger's) animal companion is bound to be an animal. It only says that it must be one of the following...

'findel


So what would happen if a druid attempts to teach his (3 INT) companion the Druidic language? Would the druid then become an ex-druid and the companion lose all of its companion buffs including knowledge of the Druidic language? Or since the animal companion is part of the druid class all would be fine because it would lose all buffs and knowledge of the language anyways when released from service? Its not like the companion can speak the language... just understand it.


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The "understand a language" thing stems from the fact that it is smart enough that you can teach it a language (via giving it a rank in linguistics).

Also, you still need to use the handle animal skills:

Ultimate Campaign wrote:
Even if an animal's Intelligence increases to 3 or higher, you must still use the Handle Animal skill to direct the animal, as it is a smart animal rather than a low-intelligence person (using awaken is an exception—an awakened animal takes orders like a person). The GM should take the animal's Intelligence into account when determining its response to commands or its behavior when it doesn't have specific instructions. For example, an intelligent wolf companion can pick the weakest-looking target if directed to do so, and that same wolf trapped in a burning building might push open a door or window without being told.

So you can give fairly specific commands to your animal companion, and it will follow them, but you still need the handle animal skill. This description also sets a precedence (which might have also been said other where in UC, but let's focus here) that animal companions are still animals, even if you give them 3 int.

Also: interesting question Bobbodagreen. In suppose that, because the animal companion could not exactly reveal the secrets of the language. Plus, I would suppose that there would be some degree of leniency with such a case. Still, it would be safer just to teach it Sylvan, "the language of woodland creatures" as the class calls it. Really, outside of specific encounters, you would still have the advantage of giving commands in a language that most people do not understand.

Sovereign Court

The ruling from (I believe it's Ultimate Campaign) makes specific rules on companions


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Really helpful collection of links if you are playing an animal companion
Of particular note we find:
int 3 does increase tricks
You still need handle animal checks with int 3-4


There are rules in PF that state "If an animal companion increases
its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains bonus skill ranks
as normal." So it is Definitely a thing that AC's can be over int 2


thats straight outta the core rule book.


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Pope_Lunchbox, excellent necro of an already necro'd thread. :)

Scarab Sages

Adam Ormond wrote:

Does this mean the animal understands Common (or some other language you choose)?

What impact does this have on tricks? Just add 3 more to its maximum number of known tricks?

The biggest impact is that INT 2 or less creatures don't benefit from Morale Bonuses, so Bardsong or Bless don't affect animal companions until they hit INT3+


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Adam Ormond wrote:

Does this mean the animal understands Common (or some other language you choose)?

What impact does this have on tricks? Just add 3 more to its maximum number of known tricks?

The biggest impact is that INT 2 or less creatures don't benefit from Morale Bonuses, so Bardsong or Bless don't affect animal companions until they hit INT3+

double thread necro!

... and no.

Morale bonuses will not affect mindless things or things that are immune to mind effecting (like the undead). int - critters are mindless, int 1 or 2 are not.Can you cite something saying morale bonuses don't work on int 1-2 critters?


Animals with higher INT are perfectly capable of communicating with people.

BARK!

What's that girl? Little Timmy has fallen down the well?


MannyGoblin wrote:

Animals with higher INT are perfectly capable of communicating with people.

BARK!

What's that girl? Little Timmy has fallen down the well?

i used to have a dog that would tell me to turn on the air conditioner or else.

Scarab Sages

BigNorseWolf wrote:


Morale bonuses will not affect mindless things or things that are immune to mind effecting (like the undead). int - critters are mindless, int 1 or 2 are not.Can you cite something saying morale bonuses don't work on int 1-2 critters?

One of those ones where I was sure it was there, but now I can't find it. Yeah, probably mis-remembered it.


Sounds like one of those early days mistakes where you confused mindless with non-sapient. And then you just carried that forward.

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